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Discussion Forum

Toilet Taking a Leak

Terry | Posted in General Discussion on July 7, 2009 04:12am

I have a two-piece American Standard toilet in the bathroom of the finished basement that is leaking water on the tile over cement floor.  I have been attempting to reseat this toilet for several weeks with no success.  First, I found that the floor flange (plastic) was set up off the tile by about 3/8s of an inch because the tile pieces were not cut back from the 3 inch plastic drain pipe.  The floor flange is glued inside the drain pipe so it would be difficult to remove plus I still would not be able to set the new floor flange down on the tile surface.

The floor flange also reduces the internal diameter of the pipe to only 2 1/2 inches which is non-standard for wax rings — and especially those with hard plastic inserts.  While I had the toilet removed this last time, I poured ten gallons of water down the floor drain without any backup so I do not believe that there is any flow restriction.

My solution so far is to shim the toilet up off the tile with several 1/16 inch thick spacers sold for rework where the floor is marked by the old toilet.  I used a good wax ring but removed the wax in two halves from the hard plastic insert and remolded the wax for the smaller diameter.  I believe that the wax seal is holding but now, when the toilet is flushed, a steady dripping emanates from a small vent hole on the back of the toilet base.  The dripping is slow but lasts for almost an hour which leaves quite a puddle.

The flapper valve and seat are new so there appears to be no leakage from the tank (no refilling either).  I used a flexible probe to check the channels in the toilet when I had it drained and off the floor mount.  There are no obvious obstructions.  There is good water flow when flushing both from the rim ports and from the underwater port.  My question is, “Can I seal the vent hole?”  What would be the best method to seal the hole?

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Replies

  1. cussnu2 | Jul 07, 2009 10:33pm | #1

    Don't know anything about a vent hole but I ran through basically the same thing until I figured out that it was actually the toilet itself that was leaking.  It either had a hairline crack or a spot down in the trap that wasn't fully coated.  The guys at HD must have thought I had some kind of McMansion with all the was rings I went through.

    1. User avater
      Terry | Jul 07, 2009 10:45pm | #2

      That is my next thought.  I am surprised someone has yet to tell me to put a cork in it.  There, I've said it so nobody else can now.

  2. Shacko | Jul 07, 2009 11:38pm | #3

    Without being able to get that flange down the only hope you have is to shim it up, but with the flange up 3/8 in. you may not be able to get enough wax in the joint.

    Your wax ring goes on the outside diameter of the flange, the size of the pipe should not have anything to do with it.

    The vent hole you are talking about is not something I've ever seen, but if its leaking there is something wrong with the toilet. You can put some food coloring in the bowl and if it comes out of the VENT hole you have a prob. with the bowl, sorry, but it may be time to call a pro.

     

     

     

    "If all else fails, read the directions"
  3. FastEddie | Jul 08, 2009 01:43am | #4

    Cut a pice of 1/2" ply to the shape of the toilet foot, plus about an inch bigger all around.  paint it well with gloss white paint to match the commode.  That will raise the commode up higher than the flange, and provide full support for the foor.

    I agree that you should put sopme food colori9ng in the tank to truy to track the leak.

    "Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

    "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

  4. McPlumb | Jul 08, 2009 02:50am | #5

    I put an American Standard in for a customer last week, It had the hole.

    The hole was high and to the rear outside of the bowl.

    My take on it is, the hole is there to alow air out when the bowl is fired in the kiln.

    The internal trap passage is seperate from this hollow spot.

    Water coming out that hole tells me the internal passage has a crack and is passing water into this hollow spot.

    The bowl needs to be replaced, if its new they should exchange it for you no charge.

    1. User avater
      Terry | Jul 08, 2009 04:17pm | #8

      Thank you for all the comments.  I am also suspicious that the bowl has an internal crack.  It came with the house which is ten years old so I may simply have to replace the toilet.  By the way, I did put a cork in the hole (67 cents) and the leaking appears to have stopped.

      I am now waiting for the tile grout under the bowl to dry out so that I can once again let my son use it to see if the leaking has now truly stopped.

      Terry

      1. mike_maines | Jul 08, 2009 04:45pm | #9

        Is the toilet sweating?  Condensation on the outside of the tank?

        1. User avater
          Terry | Jul 08, 2009 06:54pm | #12

          No, there is no condensation or sweating on either the tank or the bowl.

      2. cussnu2 | Jul 08, 2009 05:25pm | #10

        Putting a cork in the hole doesn't mean its not leaking it just means its not coming out of that hole.

      3. User avater
        plumber_bob | Jul 08, 2009 05:33pm | #11

        I gotta say that McPlumb has a point!Vents belong between the trap, and the branch line it dumps into. They prevent the traps from 'sucking' dry, and they insure that no pressure can build up in the system.I have never seen a vent on a toilet,(well a quick john does but that's diff), and if for some reason there was one, it would have to be connected to the house venting system, and it would be setup to do so.You probably should replace the toilet. And double stacking the wax ring is a good idea too.Ain't plumbing fun???

        1. User avater
          Terry | Jul 08, 2009 06:56pm | #13

          Plumbing is my achilles heal.  I understand the pieces and the assembly techniques.  It just never seems to work the way it should.

          1. User avater
            plumber_bob | Jul 09, 2009 01:39am | #14

            I understand where you are coming from!Here's the key points to consider, I hope I don't miss any! :)If the flange is raised, you should make sure that the flange is mounted solid to the floor, remember that this helps to not only keep the toilet in place but it also helps to keep the pipe from moving, and possibly breaking.The traps in every toilet I can think of is about 2" maybe 2 1/2".The sewer side of the flange should be 3" minimum waste pipe.I KY the vent will be no more than 4' from the trap, (don't worry about it, just info).I like the idea of building up the floor under the toilet. It'll help too.If the toilet is a standard type, and most are, and the flange is flush, one wax ring is plenty, 2 is better if you are not sure.Plumbers tip,... Don't follow the instructions on how to install a wax ring. Any I've seen tell you to put it on the bottom of the toilet. Any plumber I've seen will put that ring on the flange first. Get it all nice, centered, and pretty looking.Your toilet bolts should be mounted solid on the flange. If you imagine a line connecting the 2 toilet bolt. it should be parallel to the wall.Next straddle the assembled toilet and test where around the bowl you can best balance the fixture as you lift and move the toilet into position. Aligning the bolts with the holes takes a bit of practice. Just be patient!Once the toilet is set, press evenly and firmly, until the toilet feels like it's down.The rest is pretty much like the instructions will tell you, just keep setting on the toilet some, and re-tightening the bolts until they won't snug up anymore, don't crack the base!Another note, on the supply line to the tank, metal compression rings are for metal supply lines, plastic compression rings are for plastic supply lines. The same should apply for the compression nuts.You probably knew most of this already but, I couldn't help myself! :)It really sounds like the toilet needs replaced.I hope I helped some. 

             

             

             

            It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.

          2. rasconc | Jul 09, 2009 06:04am | #17

            Not a real plumber but set a lot of cr***ers, one step not mentioned is one I find very helpful.  Dry fit before wax ring and make sure there is little or no rocking, shim with various plastic or other materials (solid, non rotting/rusting) then proceed.  Caulk or grout to floor leaving an inch or so non closed in back.For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.

        2. McPlumb | Jul 09, 2009 02:27am | #15

          The hole I mentioned wasn't a plumbing vent, ever see the little figurines that are fired in a kiln, there is a hole in the bottom of them so when they are heated up they don't blow up.

          This is the type of casting hole that is on the back of the toilet, the hollow spot the the hole connects to has a shared wall with the internal trap passage way.

          1. User avater
            plumber_bob | Jul 09, 2009 02:58am | #16

            Dude!I knew what you meant.I wasn't meaning it that way.I was backing up what you had said.Sorry about my phrasing, glad you called me on it.I'm on your side, just adding to your input.Sorry for any misunderstanding. 

             

             

             

            It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.

          2. McPlumb | Jul 09, 2009 12:07pm | #18

            Yes I got the wrong impression.

            The internet won't replace talking to people.

            Any how "Don't chew your fingernails"

          3. User avater
            plumber_bob | Jul 09, 2009 01:58pm | #19

            It's cool, we need expression cam or sumthun. 

             

             

             

            It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.

  5. mike4244 | Jul 08, 2009 03:07am | #6

    I am not a plumber, I have done a fair amount though. I have never seen a "vent hole" on a toilet. Might be time to replace it.

    mike



    Edited 7/7/2009 8:10 pm ET by mike4244

  6. mike_maines | Jul 08, 2009 03:18am | #7

    I'm curious about this vent hole too.  Sounds suspicious.

    Most toilets will seat on a 3/8" high flange, although I prefer to keep the flange flush to the finish floor.

    Never buy just one wax ring.  Never.  Always buy two, and don't forget to take the rag out of the drain before setting the toilet.  Don't ask how many times I've learned those lessons!

  7. sungod | Jul 09, 2009 08:00pm | #20

    This happen to me one time.
    Measure the distance from the center of the flange to the back wall. On mines the distance was a 10" "rough" and the tract builder used a special toilet with a smaller "rough in".
    When a new toilet was installed with the normal 12" "rough-in", the tank would rest on the back wall. By touching the back wall, the wax ring would never seal and the toilet would tip and rock.
    I solved it by cutting a hole in the back drywall and notching the studs a half-an -inch.

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