I’ve been lucky so far, but I knew that I’d eventually come across a job where I need to install beadboard in a bathroom, but the toilet tank is just a fraction of an inch from the drywall.
If it matters, I will be cutting out the existing drywall, replacing with 1/2-in. plywood and then installing 3/4 T&G beadboard. So, basically I will need to gain maybe an inch, on the safe side.
A new toilet is a last resort here, are there any funky closet flanges that will shift the toilet a few inches forward or something?
Justin Fink – FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Remodelerator
Replies
Here ya go...
http://www.plumbingsupply.com/images/toiletflange-offset-pvc-stainless-steel.jpg
There are toilet flanges (Oatey makes them, I think) that provide between 1/2" to 2" offset. Of course, these are only for plastic pipe, and you need to be able to get the old flange off without destroying the end of the pipe.
ugh... time to bust out the rubber gloves and respirator. Dontcha love working around old toilets?Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Remodelerator
3/4 T&G beadboard shouldn't need plywood backing, should it? Can't you just install some horizontal nailers flush with framing and install the beadboard right to the framing?
<< Can't you just install some horizontal nailers flush with framing and install the beadboard right to the framing? >>
I suppose I could do it that way, but then the 3/4-in. beadboard would be set 1/2-in. in from the drywall. So, if you imagine the top trim removed, the beadboard would only be 1/4 in. out from the surface of the finished wall.
Might look funny, even with a decent top cap nosing and bed mould, no?Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Remodelerator
Might look funny, even with a decent top cap nosing and bed mould, no?
Justin,
Here's a picture from some beadboard I installed flush with the rock. Space was very tight, so we decided to do it this way for this particular bath. (By the way, you're looking at an outside wall corner; the 3x6 tile is in the background.)
As you can see, we just used a step casing to transition from bead to rock. I think it looks good, but it probably depends on what you're used to.
This was T&G bead that netted out at about 9/16" or 5/8". We just furred out the rock to make the finish faces flush. You could certainly do the same thing in your case by using 1/4" furring.
Just another option. I'm thinking it's going to be less labor to just offset the toilet.
Ragnar
Edited 5/21/2007 5:23 pm ET by Ragnar17
Look funny? NO! The best bead board wainscot work has the bead surface flush with the plaster face.
There is also a fir bead board that is 5/8" thick
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Disagree. I prefer the beadboard to stand proud of plaster/drywall surface.
Personal preference.
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
Frame in a couple of "pilasters"on either side of the water closet on both sides of the beadboard set back.Use them to support shelving above, or leave'em as-is to mystify future generations <G>
With my mouth I will give great thanks to the Lord; I will praise Him in the midst of the throng. For He stands at the right hand of the needy, to save them from those who would condemn them to death.
- Psalms 109:30-31
Whats wrong with toilets? dogs drink out of them and then THEY KISS YOU!!
Offset toilet flanges are made for PVC, copper and iron, they do need a certain amount of expertize to install.
If you are going to install the ply backer, run the beadboard through a planer and skinny it down to 1/4". You will still have the same profile. A little creative work on the top cap will be needed.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Why the plywood. Half the bead board I have run was direct on framing blocking in the wall.
Another option which ios really best in a bathroom anyway is to use the Azek beadboard. I think it is only 7/16" thick. If there is a need fo rplywood, use 3/8" plus the Azek and you are totalling a heavy 3/4"
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
why the plywood? simply because it's a much easier solution than notching the studs to accept horizontal blocking. This way, I only have to peel back the drywall and replace it with plywood. Solid nailing throughout.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Remodelerator
Notching studs? Just screw horizontal nailers inside the stud bay...like blocking.
I have never had to notch studs for blocking. Don't know why you would want to. Blocking goes between the studs.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
you're right, you wouldn't have to. I was thinking of notching the studs because that's the way I think when installing cabinets. My brain was feeling slow the other day.
Either way, I'm guessing that installing the beadboard right to the studs is my best option. I don't want to get into messing with the closet flange.
Thanks for the tips. Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Remodelerator
What brand is the toilet? Gerber makes tanks for theirs in 10"RI and up. If it is standard 12" you could put the 10" tank on it. There might be some other brands that do the same. Not going to be readily avail at your usual box though, might special order there.
I may be all wet but may be worth checking if you do not get acceptable clue to fix your problem.
And you can sometimes gain a half-inch by adjusting the tank mounting bolts -- loosen in the back, tighten in the front.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
<< If it is standard 12" you could put the 10" tank on it. >>
That's an interesting idea, but I've got to imagine that I could replace the whole toilet with less hassle than it would take to order a special replacement tank in a smaller size. Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Remodelerator
If special order I might agree, a good plumbing supply house might have it though. The whole tank assy with innards and lid was about $30 IIRC. All depends on brand you have. If bowl is secure and grouted might be best to let sleeping dogs lie if you will.
Labor to change tank and attendant risk of leaks is much less than whole replacement. I can pick up tank and carry out without having to do the toilet waddle I have to do to carry out whole assy.
I also install the beadboard in the same plane as the drywall. Also, I have used an MDF beadborad that was pre-primed, stable and cost effective. I used this in my own bath, finished 4 yrs. ago, still looks great. Came in 4x8 shts, 7/16 thick. Painted 1 coat oil, ( that reminds me, need to finish that 2nd coat) including tub skirt. (MDF as well)
An off-set flange is a pretty staight forward install, (inside pipe cutter) and will also solve the problem.
Is it just the tank? I have not looked at it, but just "though" that the difference was in the bowl.For luckers toilets are available in 14, 12, and 10" roughin's. That is the distance from the finished wall surface to the centerline of the flange.12" is by an far the most common. .
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Pretty sure it is the tank, the bowl part # is the same for both 10 and 12 here are the specs The tank is about two inches shallower and comes to the back of the bowl and does not hang over.
I know this because a customer bought two Amer. Std toilets, one bath I was moving the toilet and roughed it in at 10" which is what the spec sheet/instructions in the box said (see what happens when we read the stinking instructions). Went to install and crap, 12"RI. On weekend, went to Lowes and HD and it was special order.
Monday I went to Strickland's (HDTools.net) and they hooked me up with the above. Either Mark or Wes said that the bowls were the same, just diff tanks (at least in the Aqua-saver line).
http://gerberonline.com/fileLib/21-702.pdf
http://gerberonline.com/fileLib/21-700.pdf
Bill, you are on the line again!, the tank is not the prob. it's the bowl that determines the rough-in. In all of the years I've been in the trade I have never seen a retro-tank that would solve this prob. Keep it up and you will lose the next A-hole election. Have a good one.
It may not solve his problem but if he has a Gerber Aqua saver it can. It is not a Toto but I have put in many of them and had no complaints.
Go look at the two Gerber spec sheets I posted, I believe you are on the line and wrong (:-). Basically their bowl is a 10"RI and you can go with tank up to 14". 10,12,14 all use the #21-752 bowl. The tank depth varies from 6 3/4 to 10 3/4 and the 14"RI is just a little shorter, tank width remains the same.
Here is sheet for 14"RI:
http://gerberonline.com/fileLib/21-704.pdf
Edited 5/22/2007 4:33 pm ET by rasconc
rasconc: looking at your attachments I don't see where changing the tank will solve the prob. of the original post. If the width of the tank does not vary, it will not change the prob. with the rough-in; the bowl is too close to the wall. Don't know what you mean when you say depth, the width is what matters. Sorry, but I have to stick with my post. BTW I don't claim it can't be done, but I've never seen it.
Look at the second page of the PDF. The back of the bowl is about 4 inches from the wall (and this is the 14" model). If the tank is made thinner front to back ("less depth") then the bowl can be placed closer to the wall. Of course, the volume must be made up somehow, possibly by increasing the width (side to side) or height of the tank.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
DanH; 4 inches is usually a code violation, the attachments that rasconc posted show 3/4 inch from finished wall to back of the tank. My point was that if you don't make the tank less in width it will not do anything for a rough-in thats too close to the wall.
FOUR INCHES FROM THE ***BOWL*** TO THE WALL. NO CODE VIOLATION THERE. A DIFFERENT TANK CAN "RECOVER" THOSE FOUR INCHES.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
*edited by moderator: JFink 5/23
Don't get hostile, my bad, I thought we were talking about the distance from the tank to the wall, sorry.
Depth would be toward wall, width would be parallel. You need to look at the 10"RI version drawing, from centerline of flange to back of tank is 9". If he has a 12" RI in floor then he will have a bunch of clearance. With the 12" you have 11 1/4 from cl to back of tank. I only showed the 14"RI to show that all three used the same bowl.
The main thing I guess is that the Gerber bowls do not stick back as far as a lot of others.
http://gerberonline.com/fileLib/21-700.pdf
Thanks Dan for trying to explain what I seem to be having trouble getting across.
I wouldn't be surprised if several mfgrs base their 14" models on the 12" ones, just with a different tank. Probably most 10" models use a unique bowl, however, since the mfgrs would "optimize" on the 12.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Might be, only one I have researched is this one. It makes sense to have one bowl and three different tanks from a stocking standpoint.
Did a good bit of looking when American Standard sent me off in a death spiral though. That was one of those Lowes specific model numbers I believe. IIRC it was one that had elongated bowl in same space as round. The cust svc folks were not much help.
I could have special ordered something to take care of it but when you are 95% done with a bath remodel that is not the time to order something. Local real plumbing house to rescue, would have gone there first but made the mistake of letting customer shop for what she wanted. Other than that it was a great project.
Edited 5/23/2007 5:47 pm ET by rasconc
We have a Toto toilet called the Vespin that allows up to a 14" offset. It's also a great toilet.
Some good advice already, but I'd definitely pull the pot and see how it's plumbed. With a little common sense and a bit of creativity you will probably find that it won't be hard to move the flange without major headaches.
Take some careful measurements and it might be that a new and better toilet would be cheaper than messing with the flange anyway.
Best of luck.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Yeah, a lot depends on the details of the setup. If you're not on a slab often the flange can be "encouraged" to move out a bit with essentially no work beyond removing the screws and prying a bit.. Even if some work is needed, if you have a frame floor over an accessible area you have all sorts of latitude to move things. With a slab, though, you pretty much have to chisel things out and install an offset flange.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Depends on the floor construction and the size of the drain pipe, but you might be able to secure a new flange to the floor. Typically, the toilet discharge is in the middle of a 3" pipe. If the pipe you have is actually 4", you could screw a new flange to the floor, shift the toilet forward an inch, and still have the discharge located withing the area of the pipe.
You might want to avoid this idea if the floor is wood and there is danger of the edges of the floorboards getting wet.
Here's a flange to consider.
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=31464-143-PP23521&lpage=none
George Patterson
Here's another idea that's somewhat work intensive but avoids buying a new toilet. Scab 1x2s to the sides of the existing studs. Recess them 15/32" and cut '1/2"' plywood panels to fit between the studs and flush with the surface. Now your wainscot boards only add 1/4" to the wall thickness.
George Patterson
FWIW, every plumber that I've talked with about offset flanges all say they're a bad idea.
I would take a good look at the myriad toilets that are offered with a 10" RI dimension.
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
The Toto Vespin I mentioned does have a form of offset flange (the details are on their web site), and the installers hate it because they have to work blind a bit of the time installing it, especially in tight places. But it's great when finished.
Beadboard wallpaper, with some trim around the edges.
You might be able to nudge the toilet with its existing flange a fraction away from the wall by just moving the bolts in the existing flange. The bolts are in slots. There is a little fudging that can easily be done. Probably 1/2 to 3/4" worth of fudging before the toilets horn doesn't sit into the flange depending on the size and type of flange.