Stripping slate today and prepping for relaying next week.
Two courses of Grace laid at the eaves at 90 degrees plus. It went down o.k. but you had to be on your toes or ELSE.
Ever been too hot for your application?/
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Replies
I love grace but it is a pain in the neck to install sometimes. I don't do it all that often but I think there are times when its just not worth it to try. If it is going to be 90, some around here will do it first thing in the morning or keep the rolls in a cool area before they start.
turn up the A/C
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I have switched over to the Elk underlayment. It is a little more heat tolerant and here in Texas were usually in the high 90's low 100's this time of year (except this year where were just under water). The elk has a little bit of texture so it is not as slick.
Bruce
What are you paying per roll for the Elk underlayment? Also, what is the coverage per roll? Thanks!
Dustin
I do not recall what the cost was. I buy my roofing materials from ABC Supply. I believe it was two square coverage, but it might only be one. I could try and make this post even less informative, but that would require me to think and I am wiped out. Sorry. Check out the Elk web page
Bruce
Hey, thanks anyway. It's only cyberspace!
Dustin
We've had good luck with Tamko products...it seems a bit more workable than Grace.
Jeezy pete. My post got deleted as did a bunch of others. What have you started here?
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http://grantlogan.net/
I've never met a man that was owed as much as he thought he was.
I was asking about ice and water shield not hot nuns!!!
Tony went overboard slightly. It wasn't meant as a double entendre- really asking if anyone had given up in the heat trying to install it.
"Ever been too hot for your application?"
Boy Howdy I want to tell you! It was in the upper 90's here a week or so ago for several days running and I had to lay some of that stuff on the south side of the house. All day in the sun and up high and laying the water shield in. I had to wear gloves. If you make it through the day, you know you've done quite the day's work.
Covered a whole low pitch roof with it a few weeks back in the sun.
Went down without a single wrinkle to be seen anywhere, flat as glass and never had the stickum stick to each other at all. A perfect install. Should have took pictures.
Then I woke up and realized it was just a dream. Oh well.
Great product tho'. ;o)
Rez,
I'm not as good as you on the install, but it's serviceable.
We added buttons since the old dusty deck even after sweeping was still dusty.
We don't do Grace anymore or Carilie. Tamko Moisture Guard Plus. We pay $56 a roll (almost 1/2 what a date with Grace cost) .
Split release paper makes it EZer to lay then Grace.
Granular surface, so not as Slick as Grace.
Give it a try & Kiss Grace Goodbye!
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Does that have the self-healing property around the nail hole? Can you take an edge between your fingers and stretch it but not tear it?
If yes to both those questions at half price like that I'm sold.
Show You Right!
Good on both accounts!
Go to the Tamko web site, splains it better then Lucy can!
Holds up real well to the UVs (sunlight), bet a guy could install it on a Shed or somthing, come back a year latter & install the shingles & still be Golden.
How long has the Tamko product been available?
We found out about the stuff bout a year ago , Tamko's been around for quite some time. Think the MGplus only been out for a few years at best.
Makes me think it'll drive down the price of Grace.
Will it pucker up around the nail like lil gracie though?
Will take a photo of the stuff this weekend with nails in the underside & report back.
Thanks. Always looking for a less costly, but still functional product.
Walter
i find valleys are definetely more troublesome to apply in high heat than eaves. i usually try to do them in the morning and in smaller pieces.
the reason i like grace so much is it's so hard to apply because of it's super adhesion properties. were it really easy to apply i wouldn't feel so confident in it, plus i enjoy the challenge. though without fail i always seem to make bear sh!t out of a piece:)
Every day is a gift, that's why it's called the present.
Arne,
Ideally one would install when it's cool, but sometimes the prep falls wrong on timing- like yesterday. We had time left in the day, big job staring us in the face, so after lunch we removed more slate. Renailed the deck, then carefully went about laying it out.
Knowing it's a buck forty a foot makes one use all their low animal cunning to get it down without a FU.
Maybe cooler this coming week.
Walter
We've tried a couple variations the local suppliers say are just as good as grace, but non have the same properties that make grace as good as it is. After being in 90 degree weather for a week some of the easy to apply products didn't even seal to the layer under it! That doesn't sound right. Not right at all. Also, pulling a few shingles showed how not all of the roofing nails even had a complete seal, and the material definitely didn't seal like grace.
We've quit looking for a free lunch and just buy grace.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Walter i know exactly what you mean. i had to grace a 14/12 valley two or three weeks ago in the 90"s. can't always wait for the weather. i just used workable pieces, about four or five feet in length. all turned out well.
Every day is a gift, that's why it's called the present.
Edited 7/28/2007 1:48 pm ET by arnemckinley
I've never laid eyes on Grace products. They don't sell them here. I typically use Certainteed Winterguard which has granuals and split backing. It won't come up once it's been put down. If you have to pull a nail out of it, whack the miniscule hole with your hammer and it's gone. Sucks up around the nails just fine. It's $54/roll. Don't see how Grace could be much better.
View Imagehttp://grantlogan.net/
I've never met a man that was owed as much as he thought he was.
Grant-- might wanna ask for it at ABC-- you have one of those down there I think.
I can get the GRACE at ABC and a couple other places-- but you kind of have to ask for it( like ridge caps!)--- it's stocked----- but wildley unpopular and about $115/2 sq. roll.
they make several versions-- the stuff I think slateman is using---and a slightly thinner and less expensive version--although every bit as difficult to work with--plus it tears kind of easy---plus a granulated product which I HAVEN't Tried.
don't know if you have Carter Lumbers down in KY.-----we have 'em in ohio, seen 'em in PA, and they are also ,i think, in indianna---any how-- that's the only place i have seen granulated Grace--and-as mentioned I have never used it.
Stephen
might wanna ask for it at ABC-- you have one of those down there I think.
Yeah, I trade heavily at ABC (When ever they hire some new help, I'm always introduced as "one of or best customers". Don't know if that means I'm supposed to get special treatment or if it's code for "hide when you see hiim coming")
They have the Grace products in the catalog, but don't stock them.
Since the hail storm in June, this branch is so busy that the Louisville and Cincinnati branches are doing deliveries for them. I got a delivery from Cincinnati Fri and they couldn't bring my drip edge. I wanted 1", but all Cinti carries is 1 1/2". Lex stocks 1" & 1 1/2". Lou also stocks 2". The local markets vary quite a bit. The Lou store hardly sells any copper. The Lex stores sells a semi load a week.
View Imagehttp://grantlogan.net/
I've never met a man that was owed as much as he thought he was.
Hails storm here--same time frame.
I use 2 suppliers
1) willoughby supply built a huge addition on their facility so that they could pull all therir trucks inside, load them out of the rain and then deliver-- really efficient--like a conveyor belt or assembly line--trucks go in one door-exit the other side of building fully loaded.-ALL the materials stored inside.
ABC------ locked into an awkward location-their customers trucks have to fight for the same space with their delivery trucks and THEIR vendors trucks---it's a awkward, cramped,crowded mess----and since the hail storm------- crap stacked everywhere and every which way--they just don't have the facility for the volume they are trying to handle
where as Willoughby Supply is just humming along perfectly.
my youngest son has been working with me this summer-and i made a point early on to take him inside all the suppliers places and introduce him---and THEY gave my son the same story about me-- you are hearing about YOU at ABC.-Have since had a couple subs tell my son the same thing" your Dad is the only guy we will do this for,etc."------------- which of course reveals a side of Dad to my son he wasn't aware of---Dad has a different dimension besides the fat guy laying on the couch at home-or the guy who writes all the checks for me or the guy who paid for all those guitar lessons------------
though i don't work with employees now-- they all used to remark" you know everybody!"-- not really, I just prefer to be well known at the 3-4 places I frequent.
3'x10' copper here at ABC--$160 last month--bought 2 of them for a job( don't laugh)- i think I am the only guy locally here getting copper with any degree of regularity. I know I have NEVER seen anybody else buy it, LOL--so they ain't moving a truck a week of it----but the warehouse guys always seem interested when i buy it---since they handle it so infrequently.
don't laugh- i think I am up to maybe 5 sheets a year of it.
stephen
though without fail i always seem to make bear sh!t out of a piece:)
Now that's funny right there and got a good snort outta me View Image
be wrinkled
Edited 7/28/2007 12:49 pm ET by rez
that's what i've been calling grace since the first time i used it. it was a hot day in august and i tried treating it like your standard IandW sheild. after i finally freed the sticky mess from my hands and threw it off the roof to the ground it bore a strikingly similar resembalance to a pile of bear scat. the name stuck .
heehhehehh:)
Every day is a gift, that's why it's called the present.
I had a hard time understanding what the hey the special 'pull it this way deal' was they talked about on the package for ease of use.
I kept looking for a sealed string or something.
be dumb and ignorant but just make sure yer happy... don't worry, be happy
Where did Thoreau go? Did you guys have a falling out?
Walter
"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth." -Thoreau
Don't ferget the pics.
be grooving with a pic orCareful With That Zax Eugene
The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation. From the desperate city you go into the desperate country, and have to console yourself with the bravery of minks and muskrats. A stereotyped but unconscious despair is concealed even under what are called the games and amusements of mankind. There is no play in them, for this comes after work. But it is a characteristic of wisdom not to do desperate things.
Edited 8/1/2007 1:29 pm ET by rez
this is a family site and G already has had a TO....Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
a time out.
we won't go there.
be it's been pretty laid back of late and never put yer hand in the mouth of a sleeping alligator.
The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation. From the desperate city you go into the desperate country, and have to console yourself with the bravery of minks and muskrats. A stereotyped but unconscious despair is concealed even under what are called the games and amusements of mankind. There is no play in them, for this comes after work. But it is a characteristic of wisdom not to do desperate things.
Got a little side tracked this weekend, will try to get the shot this weekend, till then this should Cool down Grace.......
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Sorry Man,
Been Busy! Real Busy!!
The stuff works Great, reminds me of Miracle on 34th Street...
Not as sticky as fire & Ice, But the stuff is Da-BomB!
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From site: http://www.concretemonthly.com/monthly/art.php?663
TAMKO Roofing Products Inc. of Joplin, Mo. is offering Moisture Guard Plus, an SBS-modified underlayment that provides an extra layer of waterproofing protection to help prevent water penetration caused by windblown rain or ice damming. This self-adhering SBS-modified bitumen sheet creates a watertight barrier by sealing to the deck and around nails to provide years of continuous protection.
Thanks for the followup.
Sounds like an interesting subject for an FHB article.
Used it, liked it (A LOT)Troy Sprout
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should also have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." -- George Washington
Walter,
I must admidt i was hoping you were going to reveal a secret method for handling this stuff.
Grace is a material I tried about 20 years ago---and it's one of those things( to me at least) that seem perfect in theory---but considerably different in actual use----almost like it's manufactured intentionall to prevent the installer from handling it remotely effectively.
Actually- i was using a few rolls of it this spring----hoping things have changed a bit( and partly 'cause I had seen that YOU seem to use it exclusively--can't go wrong trying to emulate the slateman! )
but after march--- it became pretty much un-usable in my book--and it seems nothing has changed much in 20 years.
1) the surface is really absurdly slippery--unbelievable that the material is even LEGAL for rooftop application! LOL
2)- the release paper---how come every other manufacturer seems to be able to produce a WORKABLE split release paper on the back side EXCEPT for grace---has ANYBODY EVER found the non existant"zip cord" the Grace people claim is in place and yet I have NEVER been able to find.
3) i DO love the ability of Grace to stretch and bond to itself-especially around skylights and chimneys--- but I have found ,what is for me a more workable product for THAT application--smooth surface,self adhering Base sheet intended for use under SA modified Bitumen cap sheets--much more workable--and seals very well AFTER it heats up
4) i have returned to using Certainteed wintergaurd---which i like a lot better than the material I had formerly used a lot of--the GAF product.
In the end I have decided I prefer using the Certainteed Wintergaurd product since I can actually get it installed as it is designed to be--rather than the Grace product--(theoretically a superior product--but one I can't get down without what I feel are an unacceptable amount of wrinkles)-- i would rather have the continuosly,fully adhered wintergaurd--then the wrinkled GRACE.
i AM kind of relieved to see that the grace wrinkles -even for YOU--makes me feel better about my own inadequacies! LOL,
best wishes, Stephen
BTW- I have a water tower picture for you-- its gotta be the king of all water towers-- gotta dig it out sometime.
i AM kind of relieved to see that the grace wrinkles -even for YOU--
But he's typically laying slate over it. I wouldn't think a wrinkle or two would make as much difference in that scenario as under asphalt shingles. Chalk line interferance would be the biggie in his case.
View Imagehttp://grantlogan.net/
I've never met a man that was owed as much as he thought he was.
Grant,
Thats right- slate won't telegraph the wrinkles like asphalt will.
Whens it's not sunny and below 65 I can usually lay it pretty flat- but blazing sun and 90- there will be some wrinkling!!
Got to shingle the rear of my Ins. agents house mid-week. Been awhile since I've laid archys.
Walter
I get more wrinkling when it is cold, except of course in the valleys.But I use techniques more like from when I was doing BUR work. If I get the roll headed the right direction to begin with, I am stretching tight as it unrolls in place.Let me know if you find a source for the Certainteed. I'm interested in not having that slick surface to walk on. It has hurt me more than once
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Stephen,
Looking forward to the water tower pics!
Yes Grace is nearly impossible to lay in the heat without some wrinkling,but I don't think that it impairs it's performance. Usually the roofs I'm on require brackets so that I'm not having to walk on it unaided- although this upper pitch was Graced and felted without them.
I think Grace is smooth so that it can congeal around the nail head better- but you and others have made a good case for Tamko and Gaf- which I'll try some of after this pallet of 35 rolls of Grace are depleted.
Walter