Hello Everyone,
I’m looking at doing a laser level review. This one will be a full head-to-headreview, so I have to narrow the field down into a group that is manageable. I’m wondering what type of laser level you’re using (not model, but type – what it does, how much it costs, special features), what you’re using them for, what you look for when you buy one–the typical tool questions we always ask. Not sure who is going to do the actual review yet – I have a few authors in mind who have done tool reviews in the past.
Any thoughts on the topic are welcomed and appreciated.
Thanks.
Chris
Replies
I do mainly interior remodels. So, I purchased a PLS2 (about 250.00) a few years ago. I use it from estimate review of a job to hanging cabs, susp. ceilings, trim alignment, and whatever leveling/plumbing and squaring I run into where time spent warrants it's use.
For exterior work I still use a bldrs level/transit. If the pls2 had the X I would now be in hog heaven.
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
This one?
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Amazon has it for $207.27 with free shipping. Looks like their $25 off $199 ran out, have to wait for the next one.
jt8
"If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base." -- Dave Barry
yes John. The pls2 is the older model, the pls2E (I think E-comes with a receiver that allows use outside) is the new model. If outside use is not a requirement, that price is good. Not sure if they are discontinuing its production as the 2E does them both.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Several people have posted about having the PLS2
I bought one a while back and was dissapointed to find out that it doesn't have a lock on the laser when not in use.
I have an old RoboVector. When you turn it off, it clamps the laser head in place so as not to have it swinging free in transit.
Just suprised that the PLS2 doesn't have something similar.
Seems the head swinging around all the time in the van would cause calibration problems much sooner than if it locked down.
anyone know if the PLS2e locks down?
I bought the porter cable / robotools laser two or three years ago it self levels and shoots two beams plumb/level we got when we were working in an old movie theater where nothing was square plumb or level it is great our only beef withit is the size of the beam which can be 1/8 thick we just have to be clear as to which side of the beam we are measuring to. all in all we have found it to be quite accurate and visible even in bright lights
Noah
Just a tip from someone who has framed with lasers for many years.
Always measure to the center of the beam. With all lasers, the farther from the source, the larger the beam. If everyone measures to the center you will always be more accurate. Sometimes at 100' the beam will be 3/8 wide.
I've used some (Specraphysics?) where the beam is adjustable in thickness at different lengths.
Again, this is just a tip, it is something we teach our apprentices out of the gate. Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
We tested and reviewed it around the Fest time last year and it does not lock down.
However, the pls2 I have now I check quickly on set up to see that it is shooting properly. I don't throw it around and treat it with respect. I have not had it lose it's calibration in the couple years I've had it. This may be luck but the folks at PLS I'm sure would be happy to answer any of your questions, they are a good down to earth and forthcoming company.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Thanks for the response.
I treat mine with care as well when I have it out of the case and working. My main concern was the rough ride bouncing around in the van where it lives every day.
I have an old CTS Berger Gizmo and a Robotools Robovector - both lock down when not in use - was just suprised the PLS2 didn't. So far it has been a good laser though.
Hmm... a bit pricey though.
Pacific Laser Systems PLS2E KIT Exterior Line Generating Laser with Detector Other products by Pacific Laser Systems
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"If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base." -- Dave Barry
pricey?
Well John, that is an unusual word when talking tools. The multimaster and blades are pricey. However, enables a good job and so the price is justified. My suggestion for deciding on any tool is to price out the alternatives and make the decision an educated one. Remember that sweet taste of a good price sometimes sours in time.
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Edited 4/7/2006 3:26 pm ET by calvin
Did an Amazon price match to Coastal Tool's price. $189+8.50s/h= 197.50... I think it ended up at $194.
PLS2e should be here next week.
jt8
"The difference between greatness and mediocrity is often how an individual views a mistake..."-- Nelson Boswell
The are closing it out. The pls2e has a pluse function that works with the sensor. Other than the pulse function, they are the same.
I picked up the pls2 from amazon about three weeks ago for $150, they had that deal for a weekend. Coastaltool.com in ct had the pls2e without the sensor for $190 and their shipping is fair.
I picked up the pls2 from amazon about three weeks ago for $150, they had that deal for a weekend. Coastaltool.com in ct had the pls2e without the sensor for $190 and their shipping is fair.
Do you need the sensor?jt8
"If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base." -- Dave Barry
The pls2e is the same thing but will work with the sensor in low light or outside. I talked to a pls rep and they said they are the same laser except the pls2e has the pulse ability to use with the sensor. The kit with the sensor is $400 and without it is $200, so your paying big money for the sensor. The sensor makes it and interior/exterior level but I'll never use it for exterior, so the extra money would be wasted.
I did use the pls2 a few times outside, I just wait till the sun is going down and the light is low enough to see the lines. Using it in even cloudy weather is very difficult at best outside.
I'm still using a Robo Laser. When I bought it years ago, it was an affordable self-leveling laser. When I purchase a new one. it will have to be self-leveling. And, I would want one that continuously rotates and puts a line on the wall. A vertical line would be nice, along with the ability to put 90 degree lines on the wall or floor. But, again it would need to be self-leveling. The one thing I like about the Robo Laser is that I can calibrate it.
"Objects in mirror appear closer than they are."
Klakamp Construction, Findlay, Ohio
Edited 4/3/2006 7:48 pm ET by BryanKlakamp
I had and used the manual leveling Dewalt rotary laser for a while and was very happy with it, and have scince purchased a PorterCable Robotools auto leveling rotary laser (model #5150K). Sold the Dewalt to a fellow Breaktimer (How's it working out Sam?)The self leveling feature is nice, and the PC unit is pretty beefy, unlike some of the lesser cost Robotoolz models.One thing that you would be missing with the PLS2 type lasers is the ability to take the rotary lasers and put them on their side for a plumb line on the walls ceiling and floor simultaneously. This feature is great for new walls in basements and such - you can mark all surfaces at once and then just build to the line. Every once in a while I'll check a stud and wonder why I bothered checking - perfect.This option alone makes the rotary models much more handy.For me, the only other need I'd have is a plumb dot reference, and I picked up one of the David White 5 dot models for that - although it also has a level line and 4 dots to boot. Picked it up off Ebay like new for $65 (retail $190).JT
I'm still thinking of selling my DW manuel leveling rotory level. First thing I thought of when I saw this post. Too big for me to hassle with for the kinda work I do.
I'd rather go with the smaller Pl levelsIf Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
Julian. The pls2 and 2xterior model will project the line on the floor, up the wall and back on the ceiling. The limiting factor would be the room you have to work with. Same way with the horizontal line, it will fan around pretty much 300+ degrees.
compact, decent line, versatile, self leveling and reliable-good features for the price.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Some random points.
Auto vs self level. Which is more accurate? Do the self levelers really level? REALLY? I think accuracy and repeatability should be a mojor point of the review. You'll need to compare them all to a highly accurate known level point(s).
Second, they all list their accuracy, well, most do, but the specs can be a bit confusing. Confirm and shed light on that issue.
On the self levelers, battery draw seems to be an issue. Does the accuracy change as the batts wear down?
Seems like there are two ranges...affordable, and big bucks.
I had a Robotoolz, (now Porter Cable) but it no longer self levels. And I had doubts about it's repeatability too, before it failed. Not good.
Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
Jake,
It is true that the Robo Laser can get off. I just recalibrated mine about two weeks ago. One of the things that can knock it out of level is if you move it around without the door on the laser closed. With that closed, it is supposed to lock the mechanism in place. That's probably what made mine off a little.
To recalibrate it, you need to set it at one end of a room, and record the locations of the dot on opposing walls. You then move it to the other end of the room, and do the same thing. If you line it up with the closest dot, and then measure the difference in height at the other end, you can then adjust it to be at the halfway point. It should then be reasonably accurate. The further the distance the better. It's supposed to be accurate to within 1/8" in 100 feet. But then, I think someone has mentioned that the curvature of the earth is 1/8" in 100'. So I guess that would be as accurate as you can get.
The problem I have with bubble levels on lasers is that I don't think they would be that accurate, unless you can get the bubble exactly in the middle of the vial. Maybe I'm way off with that, since I have never tried one.
FWIW
Bryan"Objects in mirror appear closer than they are."
Klakamp Construction, Findlay, Ohio
Thanks for the advice. I have re calibrated it a few times, but it's not even close this time. I keep it in it's little foam case, with the switch off, but it was so far off, and I was short on time so I didn't give it a good going thru. I should before I totally toss it.
Hopefully the review can lay to rest, definatively, the realative accuracy and the ease and repeatability of both auto and manual setups.
I love lasers. I have made jigs with them for aligning my race car, and take them to the track to use in the paddock, and they are great, but the repeatability and accuracy are important points.Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
> On the self levelers, battery draw seems to be an issue. Does the accuracy change as the batts wear down?
I don't think so. I have the PLS2e, it seems to be a gravity plumb bob kind of thing.
To me, the vertical and horizontal line type seems a lot more useful than a dot type. Those bright red lines on top of wet thinset are really neat for tile work.
-- J.S.
We use 3way laser by pls
Commercial/industial plumbing
We layout system on floor & transfer layout to ceiling for hangers
We also use the self leveling horizontal beam to set grade, floor drains, floor sinks, & toilet flanges , etc..... when there is not a benchmark close to our work.
Do you look to the government for an entitlement, or to GOD for empowerment. BDW
been using a Spectra LL200 self leveling, works great, nice case, small reciever, retarded aluminum rod though!
Not visible laser has 1000ft range( great for shooting grade on a lot solo)
Accuracy is 3/32" at 100' which is better than most. has a reciever view on the back also.
I have a surveyor buddy who usually shoots my foundations to sub centimeter accuracy (labor trades) well worth it (timewise) on crazy floorplans with multiple angles. Then I use the spectra to build.
Check you level
Some may already know this but:
Set up self level. MarK a line level, then at 180 from the machine mark a line level.
(long hallway works good, further the better)
Turn laser body 180 from orig setup position.
Locate mark with reciever body and check against other mark.
if it is off, it will reflect so.
I also use the PLS2
We do complete home renovations.
Always keep a old but good quality camera tripod with the laser level, also a have a 1x3 with a old tape measure for doing small landscaping. I purchased a pair of red lense glasses to help using it in sunny conditions.
The horizontal works great for installing cabinets, ceilings, leveling floors, outside landscaping, concrete work.
The cross hairs has made doing bathroom tiles a breeze spread glue, turn on cross hairs, measure in both directions, works great.
The fixed cross hairs feature is great for doing floor tiles of any type. set the level up high, the fixed cross hairs projects on the floor and you can easly measure in all directions and balance out where you are going to start. run started tile along lines.
I store my level with the glasses and an extra set of batteries in a small plastic hand box.
If there is a better system on the market for the small contractor/ carpenter it could only be the price. It may be the most valuble tool I own.
George
Since I purchased this product I
I've had the same experience. You couldn't have said it better."The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
Value and ability to stand up the the job site are my two issues with lasers. I have had and used a number of them. Some didn't last (dust and dirt and bumps on site got to them), some weren't accurate for long, some didn't re-calibrate correctly, and some were just too difficult to use on site. I now have the PLS 2 and the PLS 5, both do what they say and have held up well. The price of both was such that they didn't pay for themselves for a while.
I have used the Stabila rotary. I borrowed it from a friend, with sensors and tripod. It self leveled and did a good job, but VERY pricey. I don't know if it would hold up and even then I'd want to know accuracy before I could judge value.
Based on my work with lasers I would like to know price and accuracy and ruggedness. The balance of those 3 is, to me, value.
Has anyone used the DeWalt 18v model? I'm considering it only because I have a bunch of tools on the 18v platform.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
Mike
I have one for sale, if you want it. I've only used it 2 or 3 times. Great for interior work, but I would like a self leveler for outside.
I'm seriously considering purchase of a PLS5x. How is it for setting grade for footings and stem walls. Is it a useful tool for framing. Would you purchase a rotary laser instead? We'll be framing all summer, and then be moving inside when winter hits. Thanks for any help
I have the 5X and will also get the 360E. The 5X has the plumb bob feature (and the squaring feature, I rarely use that), a must have for me. The 360E would be more convenient for general leveling, especially at multiple points around a job such as setting forms, cabs, etc.
Thanks, everyone. Your comments are helpful. Please keep them coming. Laser levels sound like great tools (when they work), and though I've never used a water level before I imagine laser levels are a little more versatile. Tools of the trade did a review a while back on laser levels under $2000. Seems like a good review - especially when you consider shelling out that kind of money warrants a thorough, well-informed purchase. But I'm hoping to stay in a lower price range - say, $500, if not $300. Are the less expensive ones kind of a waste for the limited features you get? Any ideas?
> I've never used a water level before I imagine laser levels are a little more versatile.
They both have their plusses and minuses.
The water level is way cheaper, and it doesn't need a line of sight. For instance, you can set it up with one end secured near the middle of the ground floor of an old building, and drag the other end all over the place to find out how far things have settled. With a laser, you'd have to do multiple setups.
The laser gives you a bright visible line, which is often a lot easier to work with than schlepping a tube around and making pencil marks, or snapping a chalk line. I love it for tile, you get a bright red line on top of wet thinset.
Well worth having both, especially since the water level is so cheap, and you can use it to double check the accuracy of the laser.
-- J.S.
I have a manually leveling David White single spot "twirly" - ancient by todays standards (laser level time seems even faster than "Internet time"). I have used it for creating a "mini topomap" for a site plan as well as the usual leveling. The beam seems fairly weak in average ambient light. Leveling is definitely a pain and takes considerable time and patience.
I also have an ancient Top-Gun "I-beam" laser that is much stronger. I once used it for laying out a fence line and at dusk was able to see the spot at 600 feet. Unfortunately, at that distance it was more a disk than a spot being several inches in diameter.
Earlier post on the spectra level
Great unit, light, good case and idiot proof.
I use the grade rod for site survey and driveway slope, drainage and landscaping
Unit has audible and silent modes so you can have the reciever 10 ft in the air and still get numbers from the rod.
Spendy but has paid for itself many time over.
FWIW I somehow equate newer technology with higher accuracy/precision and always seem a bit let down when I read about the accuracy you can achieve. The bubble vials I've seen on the lasers I could afford don't have a good enough precision to interest me on those long distances where a laser would be a real time saver. I have a cheap rotating level for inside work that is OK for dim lighting but washes out in bright light and is useless outdoors except at night!
When I needed to level the forms on a 100' X 40' slab pour I used a homemade water level and got results rivalling a survey instrument costing thousands. I never have to worry about calibrating the thing and can fix anything that breaks on it. It never needs batteries, never goes back to the factory for an overhaul or check up and receives no special treatment whatsoever. I can loan it to anyone without fear that it may come back and need expensive recalibration if they don't treat it like a Prima Donna either.
For me NEW AND IMPROVED is nice however OLD & RELIABLE still has merit.
Ah, a man after my heart. A water level is accurate 100% of the time. There, to my knowledge, is no other level that doesn't rely on the operators eye or judgement. But it doesn't have the speed of a laser unit.
Couldn't agree more on the speed or accuracy issues. To play the devil's advocate, however, just ask the ladies about their choice over the slow hand versus the 60 sec. man.
Fast is not always the only way to fly.
PS: I seem to remember reading once that a water level can be used to calibrate a Laser Level. Sort of puts the perspective on things for me.
A water level is accurate 100% of the time unless you leave one end in the sun and one end in the shade. Want to guess what that cost me to learn?
Ron
Great piece of information! I have never come across that.As far as laser levels go, I like to have a couple that each do their job well, rather than try to find one to do it all.I use the Gizmo III, RoboVector and Workform Flooring Laser to cast a cross line on walls, plumb drop points from floor to ceiling and cast tile layout lines that won't be obsured by thinset, respectively.If and when one goes down, the rest are still available.
Read your post and I'm confused. Are you suggesting that the fact that one end was in the shade and the other end was in the sun effected the accuracy of the water level? I was under the impression that a water level worked on the principal of atmospheric pressure. If that's true, why would one end being in the shade change anything? That is unless one end was capped, now that would alter the equation. I need an explanation here.
chauncey,
The water level works by gravity just like a bubble level, of course, except that it's open on both ends. The atmosphere is the bubble, in a sense.
This job I was on, I hung up the water level from a joist overhead. One end of it was shaded and one end in the sun. The liquid, which I think was windshield washer fluid because it was cold out, warmed up in the sunny end, expanded some and was therefore less dense than the liquid in the shaded end. When I finally realized that something was wrong and brought the two ends together to check the levels, the fluid in the warm end was something like 1/2" higher than in the cold end. The effect might have been less noticeable if we had been using a larger tube, but we were using 1/4" ID vinyl for the whole thing.
Another time, I topped up the fluid from a different bottle than I had filled it from. That time the difference was big enough that we saw it immediately.
Big mistakes stand out. Little ones can take a while to show themselves, but they always will.
Ron
Ron
Another vote for the PLS2E with the laser detector.
I mostly use it inside and the lines are crisp and clear.
I have checked it for level and plumb numerous times and never an issue. This and it rides exclusivly in my tool trailer.
The few times I have used the laser detector were very impressive. Couldn't begin to see the visable line but the detector sounded off with gusto.
If there was one feature that I would like, it would be for a plumb bob line.
I can't complain about the price - Pacific Laser Systems donated one to Calvin for his Riverfest and I was the lucky winner.
Terry
For interior work where the distance from laser is + or - 25' the PLS 2 is fantastic. Site has stone cladding 30"x18"x4" and PLS2 makes it happen on walls, arches & fireplaces all clad with cleft faace/heavy sq. cut stone. Also worked for the tile setter on the interior pool. Set the PLS at desired elev. in the middle of the pool for a 1' band of tile at top edge. Just filled the pool and the grout line around the pool compared to the water line is within the thickness of the same line, 1/16".I have also set the PLS 2 on it's back in the fixed positon to align lights & devices on 16' high ceilings.Spectra HV 301 with an Apache/Cyclone receiver works inside & out for both level, plumb & straight lines at +or- 1/8" @ 100'. I thought I'd never need a laser like this one. While building a large house with lots of detail and sight lines that go on forever it has become a necessity. Had I known, it would have been on site day 1.On the other, hand all of our foundation work was done by our cribbers who had no such tools, only string lines and a builder's level. They are the sub that has been the most accurate, incurring almost no errors.
Did you have either or both ends capped like a level is?
Both ends have to be open.
Ron
unbelievable, your experience goes against every chemistry and physics class I ever had. But I learned something today, there is no end to
chauncey,
It's because I know a little physics that I was able to explain what was happening and why things went wrong. Both the problems I describe are easy to avoid, but check your water level from time to time!
Ron
Ditto on checking the water level against itself from time to time.
One end exposed to a wind that the other end isn't also exposed to will affect accuracy as well. (Think of the grade school experiment where you blow across the top of a drinking straw to make the water rise up in the straw.) Any loss of water during measuring also screws you up, too.
Although it is very simple in concept, a water level has more going on than meets the eye at 1st blush.
Like most precision instruments, it never hurts to verify the instrument from time to time, and I do consider this a precision instrument, (even though it gets the heck beat out of it from time to time just to ensure that it never gets to feel like a Prima Donna.!)
Enjoyed this post.
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/pages/hvt045.aspVideo on usuing a water level.
Thanks for the link, Bill.
Unfortunately I'm on dial up and have to manage my time a bit. Going down to the city see some kin in the Big Smoke & know that one is on HIGH SPEED. Will try to get a few moments on their machine to view.
Thanks again
PLS2 review on amazon..."I've been a captive hostage for 2 years, and it's all due to this product. Having purchased this as a palm sized laser, I'm sure you could imagine my embarassment when all it did was beep and cast a lighted x on the face of my assailant. Although it did blind him temporarily, he was still able to take me hostage. While I was in captivity, I was forced to tell the famous Cadbury secret and my bittersweet release from captivity and arrival home resulted in a dishonorable discharge. My wife left me and took the kids.. But, overall, the level did show me that my opponent favoured his left leg, which would have been a clear advantage if I knew a martial art of some sort, and for that, it deserves a great rating"Awesome.I have a David White Self Leveling unit that projects the plumb and level line. Use it all the time and is always accurate for interior projects. Not suitable for use outside.
Stainless,
I had never thought about the wind afecting accuracy, but it's obvious you're right.
Ron
Ditto on the water levelI've hung cabinets, leveled a house, built a 24x36 pole barn allwith a water level. Dead on, as long as there aren't any bubblesin the line.
I bought a David White Laser that shoots 4 dots and a chalkline. Need also to get a rotary laser but the dots are quite visible outside. I find new ways to use it all the time. Did not trust it at first, but now I don't bother with the manual levels for most applications.
I was hoping for a laser level review!
Thanks,
Pat
I also have that model and find it to be pretty handy for a lot of stuff. I found mine on Ebay for about $60 - so I didn't and don't expect much from it, but have been pleasanly suprised with the way it works.JT
Yes--mine from ebay too. Unused for 99$ Buy it NOW.
So I did!
Have you calibrated yours? I went thru the routine outlined in the manual--but only across the house one night and it appears to be dead on.
Pat
Well, Pat, i'm not sure you want to wait for this one. it's scheduled for issue 182, which won't hit the newsstands until late September. And I'm not even sure we'll end up reviewing the type you're looking at buying. How much are you looking at spending on a rotary laser?
Chris
Hi Chris,
I suppose when I have to do it I'll be prepared to drop 4-500$ for a good rotary. I imagine I'll get a used one--I dunno.
I actually did search thru all my old FHB's for an article on lasers! Happy one will come down the pike.
Sept might be fine.
Chris, I live about 1.5 hrs away from the Larry Haun. I've just gone into business as a carp/remodeler and I'd fantasized off and on about calling him up and asking him if I could apprentice/volunteer/"PDB" ('poor dumb bastard' as my father called the helper ;-) ) on one framing job with him for the obvious reason of learning.
I have a teaching/writing background. Is there a remote possibility he might like to do this, or that FH readership would be interested in this experience?
Thank you,
Pat
before you do, check out http://www.watrlevel.com
I decided on a Stabila manually levelling rotary level. It's a good brand name laser without the worry about self leveling mechanism. Another big bonus is that it does the same job as a self levelling laser but for about half the price. Since I'm always on a budget, I figured the manually adjusting laser would meet my needs. I found out that another bonus was being able to shoot sloped laser lines.
Is it bright enough for use as a visible beam? I had the self-leveling model for a minute and couldn't see the dot, so I sent it back. $650 should get you a visible beam, or at least so I thought.
It depends on the time of day, lighting, and battery strength. I don't have a problem with it but under certain light conditions, you need to know where to look for the line.