Tool Totes for Winter–Bring it Inside
My work van sits outside at night in the Minnesota winter…so each night I lug in the wood glue, caulk, etc.
Now I’m thinking I had better make a tool tote for my Li-Ion batteries and charger and bring those inside too. I think I will use a wooden drawerbox salvaged out of an old kitchen cabinet. I plan to drill a hole in the drawer and install a power strip in it to plug chargers into.
edit to add: someone suggested using a cooler/ice chest for this kind of thing so the batteries stay warm…hmmm…not a bad idea, just don’t close the lid with the chargers plugged in–that could be bad.
Or I could just rig up a heater for the van to keep it at about 40*–anyone have a good way to do that?
Someday, I’ll have a shop with another heat source besides a wood stove, to park the van in.
Edited 12/17/2006 1:51 pm ET by basswood
Replies
Line a box with reflective insulation. Get a very low wattage light bulb, very low wattage. Plug it in during the day if they stay out in the cold. It may hold enough heat to last through the night.
Expert since 10 a.m.
http://www.hay98.com/
You just gave me an idea...I should just decorate the inside of my van with a few strands of Christmas lights and plug 'er in at night...festive!I'd still have to lug stuff inside when it hits single digits for sure...not that you'd know about that down there in the tropics.
I know plenty about it. That's why I wised up and decided to live here.
Expert since 10 a.m.
http://www.hay98.com/
We are so tough and thick skinned/skulled up here that just can't wait for Winter. Nobody really needs feel their fingers and toes to be happy...warm things up and those parts just sting like the dickens...invigorating!Actually, winter here is OK with me, but I'm glad I work inside most of the time. Guys that frame all winter here have my respect.
I have some leftover cable from heat trace jobs..the stuff is 8W per ft..I use it to heat water in a wash jug in the barn...its industrial stuff, not the type from the hardware store.....
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.Wer ist jetzt der Idiot
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Or I could just rig up a heater for the van to keep it at about 40*--anyone have a good way to do that?
Lot of the boats on the island rig a light bulb to keep the damp away. I use a DampChaser 500w. rig. Have used a little electric space heater when aboard. Bet you could find a heater that will work. Might not like the heating bill.
FWIW - SonInLaw heated a whole 3000' house with one portable oilbath 110v heater - the kind that looks like a steam radiator. They were not really living in it (under construction) as they lacked the CFO. Right. This was in Atascadero, however, it can freeze there. Froze my #### in my van. Frost, sleet.
We liked it so much we bought one. Has a thermostat on it. Warms up and radiates.
The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
You mean like this set up?http://boortz.com/more/funny/redneck_pics_carheater.html
You mean like this set up?
http://boortz.com/more/funny/redneck_pics_carheater.html
As a matter of fact, yes. Sure looks like what we have. Wintering in SoCal, we use it in the "media room". Wintering in the NorthWet, son is still without power and would love to be able to run one.The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
"Wintering in the NorthWet, son is still without power and would love to be able to run one."Even without heat he can run one and get warm.Unplug it.Hold it in his arms and keep running around the room.He will soon get warm..
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Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Even without heat he can run one and get warm.
Unplug it.
Hold it in his arms and keep running around the room.
He will soon get warm.
Too late. Power came on last night. He is doing dishes and laundry while he can. Another blow is arriving - a far more modest one, but...
Says the south end of Mercer Island is not the place. Still dark. I like Newport Beach. The power lines are underground.The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
We got one going 24/7 at the cabin.
Tim
I do bring in paint, but I've never brought in the glues or caulks. They have frozen and thawed several times over. They seem to work as well as ever. I'm in New Jersey so I'm sure it doesn't get nearly as cold as Minnesota, but we have had a few 20° overnights already. Yesterday I used some of that frozen and re-thawed caulk. I couldn't tell a difference.
Now as for those lithium ion batteries, which I was planning on getting... it won't bother me if I can't charge them in the cold, but they will be useless to me if I can't leave them in the van when it's cold.
I was following the other thread and I'm just not sure that there's a consensus on how much cold they can tolerate. Our average winter temperature here is just below freezing, but we get a lot days/nights into the teens. Rarely into the single digits and never below 0° Fahrenheit.
-Don
Don, I looked up the winter stats for your area of NJ:Average Winter High Temperature 37.5 degrees
Average Winter Low Temperature 22.3 degrees Here's what I have to deal with (and this is the warm part of MN):Average Winter High Temperature 22.8 degrees
Average Winter Low Temperature 4.6 degrees Looks like your low temps are our highs. If I leave glue and caulk out it will be frozen so solid that it won't thaw out by the end of the work day and it has frozen and thawed out so many times it is shot in a week or two.
I think you'd better get a good furnace in that big shop of yours.
I only heat that big old shop when I am working in there (just 2 or 3 days a month), and then it is just to about 50* with a wood stove.IR heat someday maybe.
Yup, it's a lot colder where your are. All jokes aside, New Jersey actually has pretty good weather. There's only a few weeks every year when you absolutely have to run the A/C and the winters are mild (for this latitude). For example, I haven't needed a winter coat yet. Today it will be almost 50°.
Anyway, I re-read the FHB article on lithium ion batteries. The only thing they said about temperature was that they need to be protected from extreme heat and freezing just like ni-cads. My ni-cads die with age and use rather than cold so I guess I won't worry about it.
But where you live, on the other hand... it looks like the batteries need to come in along with the caulk, glue, paint and seat cushions ;-)
-Don
The Reno area has a real winter .. maybe not up to Chicago standards, but temps in the teens are not rare - especially overnight. Leave town, however, and you can easily find yourself in places colder than Minnesota in less than 30 minutes! A few things I've learned about keeping things in the truck: In some ways, the daily freeze / thaw cycle is the real killer. With that, you get moisture, which leads to condensation, which leads to all sorts of troubles. Trucks and vans generally have very poor insulation. Even a thin layer added can make an enormous difference - to both winter cold and summer heat.
Carpet can be purchased with padding already attached. This is a reasonable material to start with; contact cement will hold it to roofs and sides.
The floor is a bit trickier; the ridges in the metal complicate things, and this is where much of the water ends up. Every recess needs some sort of drain hole. The spray-on bedliner is great, but you still need those weep holes.For greater insulation, there is nothing better than rigid foam, sandwiched between two thin sheets of plywood. Because of water issues, I do not recommend carpet on the floor. A "sand" paint, a rubber mat, etc., is better.If carpet is used, the thin, dense type with rubber backing (used for carpet runners) is what you want. If you want insulated storage, a cooler is a good start. You will want to have a drain hole, however. I keep my batteries in a cooler all year; summer heat causes far more damage than winter cold ... and it's amazing how wet it gets inside just from condensation! Otherwise, individual bins can be insulated with carpet pad and spray glue. Now ... for heat ... One must not forget a few things. Your truck moves about. Most things will be rather close to the heat source. The total area heated is rather small, and you need not heat it to anything like what you would heat your home. Probably the best, SAFEST, and most efficient heat is from one of those little radiators (as seen in that Boorz link). Just fix it in place, so it will not bounce around. Those things never get so hot as to cause a fire risk, even to things that might touch them. They also have built-in thermostats. As for getting power inside, look to the RV industry. There are made 'power inlets;' these look like receptacles, only they have the plug prongs in them. The idea is that you attach an extension cord on the outside. Inside the truck, the back face is in an electrical box, and has wiring to any receptacles and lights you might have. Clean looking, and, properly placed, will 'unplug' itself if you forget when you pull out. Now, if you WANT to unload your truck every night, fine. In that case, make two or three 'sleds' that slide in the length of your bed. Make boxes that sit on these sleds, with generous handles. At the end of the day, pull each sled out, remove the bin, repeat as you like. Have a dedicated place to set these bins. If you're clever, the bins will stack together. That way, you'll remember to load everything, even when half asleep and in rotten weather.
It was pretty mild weather today. I brought the Golden Retriever along since doing a bunch of running around (picking up trim & delivering it, then sanding a small drywall job and applying a final coat of mud, then picking up Andersen and Marvin window color chips at another supplier, and then home for lunch and office work).Anyway, everytime I get out of the van, the dog moves from shotgun to the driver seat. When I get back to the van the dog moves over. Even though it is not too cold out today...the "dog-heated" seat was kinda nice.I think I should bring the dog to work more often...at least in the winter. ; )
Coldest month here in South Texas / February / Median Temp 61
I was born in Houston and lived in Dallas, Ft. Worth, Seguin, and Bastrop...darn near tropical.Now the weather here is ...well, invigorating. Must be why people live so long here.
Now the weather here is ...well, invigorating.
Yea, so invigorating you want to run inside.
Truthfully, I am from Memphis and also lived in Northern VA. I liked the seasonal changes and some snow and ice, but it can get old fast.
All the best to you in the New Year.
Well, it ain't been so "invigorating" so far this year........I'm a little north of basswood, and mostly the temp has been 35-40 (that's ABOVE zero F) all winter, and we've only had one piddly little snow, and that melted off in a couple of days. It's weird -- like something's not right.............********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Get an ice chest and a heating pad. Place the heating pad in the bottom, drill a hole for the cord and then foam the hole closed.
Place the at risk stuff in the chest, plug it in at night.
Remember to unplug before taking off in the morning.
Hey, you think this tip is good enough to submit to the mag?
_______________________________________________________________
I do all of my own stunts
Something else I found while looking around, a 12v heating blanket:
http://www.smarthome.com/9209.html_______________________________________________________________
I do all of my own stunts
Well, I thought it was a great idea....that's what I get for thinkin'_______________________________________________________________
In America, anyone can be president. That's one of the risks you take.
I really liked your idea too...I'm just kinda unresponsive sometimes.A belated thanks!
No problemo.
It's just so rare that I can get 2 synapses firin' at the same time._______________________________________________________________
In America, anyone can be president. That's one of the risks you take.
Heck,
Do you mind if I send it in?
Sounds like a good idea.
And, hey, don't they send some cash?
Bryan"Objects in mirror appear closer than they are."
Klakamp Construction, Findlay, Ohio
Sure. Send it in, and then send me the money. <G>
I won't ever get around to it, so go for it, make a little dough if you can._______________________________________________________________
In America, anyone can be president. That's one of the risks you take.
It does sound like a good idea. I just wonder how easy it would be to regulate.
Even better would be a small 12v heating pad instead of the blanket that was posted earlier. Would that be enough drain on your battery overnight so as not to be able to start your truck in the morning?"Objects in mirror appear closer than they are."
Klakamp Construction, Findlay, Ohio
OK, so I found one: http://www.veterok.com/car-seat-heater_veterok-deluxe.htm"Objects in mirror appear closer than they are."
Klakamp Construction, Findlay, Ohio
That just might work. I was really thinking about 120 V when I first had the idea, but it would be nice to be able to plug right into the 12v system. I'm like you, how would the battery hold up?
As for regulating...I'm thinking a conventional heating pad on low wouldn't get too hot on the bottom of a good sized ice chest with a load of tubes and tools.
I can imagine doing some tests with some thermometers._______________________________________________________________
In America, anyone can be president. That's one of the risks you take.
Just thinking some more. (Usually gets me in trouble)
How about using a 3 or 4 watt 12 volt light bulb? How warm would that keep the inside of a small cooler?
Again, would that run the battery down too much?
And, how hard on a battery would it be to run it down, say, just a quarter of the way every night? Unless, you had a deep cycle battery in your truck?
Anyone out there know the answers to these questions?
Bryan
P.S. - Heck and I get to split the royalties on this invention!"Objects in mirror appear closer than they are."
Klakamp Construction, Findlay, Ohio
Bryan and Heck,Your invention may have already been invented:http://www.amazon.com/Wagan-EL-2245-Thermo%252dElectric-Fridge%252fWarmer/dp/B000786JXW/ref=pd_sbs_hi_3/102-8979781-2148940Might be handy...along with an RV/Marine battery.
Yeah, I knew about those. Would be great for keeping the tool batteries warm or the beer cold...have to flip a coin each day, I guess.
Those that I have looked at are pretty small and pricey.
I am still wondering if you could get away with running it off the regular battery overnite, in the cold. You could end up with warm tools and a dead rig, not a good trade._______________________________________________________________
tagline challenged
True. But, will tubes of caulk fit into it?
And, for $50 to $100, could you make one more specifically for caulk and glue for less money?
Doesn't have to be fancy like those models.
Bryan"Objects in mirror appear closer than they are."
Klakamp Construction, Findlay, Ohio
That one is for the beer.This one is for caulk & more...uuh...warm beer:http://www.amazon.com/Vector-VEC245RB-Travel-Cooler-Warmer/dp/B000JUFT8O/ref=pd_sxp_grid_pt_1_0/102-8979781-2148940home made, in the right size & price, would be more gooder.
Here is a Wal-mart offering that might work. Says it will hold 6 liters.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3584908
I bought one of the Coleman cool/heat 40 or so qt jobs and as a fridge it sucked (took it back), would have probably worked for this application. I am fortunate, if it is that da** cold I don't work.
I see that one heats to 120 degrees F. And it says it holds 8 cans. Doesn't really sound that big. Would it be able to hold even 4 tubes of caulk? Don't know.
That's really more than is necessary for what Heck suggested with the ice chest idea.
All it would really need to do is keep it about 40 degrees. Maybe up to 70. But no need for HOT caulk. Would get a hot glue gun if we needed HOT glue.
Bryan
"Objects in mirror appear closer than they are."
Klakamp Construction, Findlay, Ohio
Edited 12/19/2006 11:53 pm ET by BryanKlakamp
The spec is "up to 120", the best they will do is 100deg above ambient. I bought one to use as a cooler and it kinda sucked and I took it back. As I said in one of the other posts they make them in the 40-50 qt range. Enough for a case of caulk, and half dozed batteries.
The one below is 15 3/4 x10x12 1/2 inside and draws 4 amps. It says that it will take a battery down fairly quick and should not be left on over 4 hours without eng running.
http://www.coleman.com/coleman/images/pdf/5640.pdf
Looks to me like the K-I-S-S method is calling for 120V ac , and an extension cord. Preferable, again, to loading and unloading daily.
Seems a 12V system would work, but would be best with a deep cycle batteries, isolators, etc., making the system vehicle specific.
The heating pad cooler could utilize a cooler of any size that you had room for in your vehicle, and during the cold times of year could hold caulking, glue, batteries, and even nail guns._______________________________________________________________
tagline challenged
This is the item I was talking about instead of heating pad. You might want to protect a heating pad with a rack or something over it.
http://www.excaliburenterprises.com/drirod/drirod.html
Bob
I was staying away from any type of light bulb due to concerns about breakage, burnout, etc., and thinking more along the lines of radiant resistive, as in a heating pad, or electric radiant mats for walls or under tile. The systems used under a tile floor could be set up to use a thermostat, but I fear these sytems would require houshold current.
I would rather plug in a cord than pack tools and caulking in and out every day, though.
A 12v system would be much more elegant, wouldn't it?
We need more info._______________________________________________________________
tagline challenged
I have not read the whole thread but they do make heating rods that are designed for a closet that would work without the downsides of heating pads or bulbs.
As for the 12V stuff, if you are really serious you could add a second battery and an isolator like the RV ones to make sure you are not wiped out on the starting battery and allow it to charge on the way to work.
12 volt heating - not.
As for the 12V stuff, if you are really serious you could add a second battery and an isolator like the RV ones to make sure you are not wiped out on the starting battery and allow it to charge on the way to work.
12 v. heating has some drawbacks.
1000 watts, 120v, you're looking at 8.33 amps load.
1000 watts, 12 v, this goes to 83 amps. Don't try this with 18g wire.
Farewell, battery.
In boats, 12v refridgeration systems mean lots of big, expensive batteries and engine time to keep them up. I had an engine-driven compressor and freeze tank with 120v compressor for when I was on shore power. No 12v. system. No thanks.
The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
Will not dispute your thoughts but I was referring to the little cooler style heater/cooler deals. Talking about not just plugging them into your cig. lighter and expecting the old truck to start the next morning. These are routinely used in autos and draw nowhere near 1000 watts. A big difference from big boat 12v appliances.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3584908#Features+%26+Specifications
edit:I thought you were talking about my second post. The #40 was a little misleading. The heat rods I was talking about were household ac, next para was the cooler/heater stuff.
Edited 12/19/2006 11:16 pm ET by rasconc
These are routinely used in autos and draw nowhere near 1000 watts. A big difference from big boat 12v appliances.
Saw some on 12v heaters.com - drawing 300 watts at 12v or 600 at 24v. They have a lot of options for you.
I use a 500w AC dryer in the boat over the winter. A very low heat - more to keep the damp away - like the Damp Chaser rods. The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
I had my van factory equipped with an auxillary battery. I use it for lights, but I don't see why you couldn't hook up some kind of heater designed for 12v. It might run the battery down, but so what? It's wired to the regular battery and will recharge when I get the van underway.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I like the auxilary battery idea. Is that a deep cycle battery or one that the dealer sells? I am about to buy a small cube van and that sounds like the ticket for the box lighting, etc. I have never had a problem with my tool batteries and I never bring them indoors. I have frozen many glue bottles, caulking and buckets of drywall mud by forgetting them in the truck or trailer. I am thinking about switching to a powdered glue in the winter that you mix with water like the Durhams wood putty, but I guess that would be a hassle too. Someone here said they thaw out the glue and it works ok. I found that once it went through the deep freeze/thaw cycle it became too thick and wont squeeze out of the bottle anymore. Anyway you look at it, you have to not only remember to plug in or bring it in overnight, but also do the same thing when you get to the jobsite. Its just as cold outside there. Gary
I think I will rig up a cooler with heating pad and get a max/min thermometer for it. In moderately cold weather the cooler full of caulk, glue, paint, etc. will have the thermal mass and insulation to avoid freezing.I will find out from the max/min thermometer when I should plug in the heat source.I think I'll check out the RV place for both a 120v port and 12v deep cycle set ups.If I plug into 120v, I might as well run one heating pad in the "cooler" and one on the driver seat.I do switch to Durhams putty for the winter. I also switch to Titebond III for the lower operating temperature (good down to 45*) since even if my glue is warm the wood I work with is not always stored warm and I endup cutting outside some of the time. I figure the Titebond III is a good choice for winter, sometimes the longer "open assembly" time, strength and waterproof qualities are nice too.Your experience with frozen glue is just like mine...like squeezing cottage cheese out of a bottle.
Gary, Yes it is a deep cycle battery, common on boats, RVs, etc. You can run whatever off the battery until it is exhausted, but it will not draw from your main battery. Then, it automatically charges up when you drive the vehicle. I've had them factory installed in my last two vans, so I didn't have to mess with mounting or any of the wiring. All you have to do is run a wire from the aux batt to your circuit breaker/switch box (which I picked up from a marine supply dealer locally), and then a wire to your lights, 12v outlets, etc. With the last van, the aux batt was located in the main engine compartment, where it was easily accessible. With my newest van, it was mounted underneath the frame, just behind the side door. That makes it easier to run your wires, but accessibility is a pain. Both were Fords.If the factory option is not available for your cube van, I would imagine any automotive electrical shop could do the basic install. I like this set up a lot, especially on dark says and during the winter when it gets dark around here at 4:30 - 5:00. With all those lights, you could read a book in the back of my van. <G>********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I like this set up a lot, especially on dark says and during the winter when it gets dark around here at 4:30 - 5:00. With all those lights, you could read a book in the back of my van. <G>
When I got my van (used), the first thing in the trash were the dim overhead lights. All replaced with marine halogen units from West Marine. The one over the driver has white/red - useful in maintaining night vision. We can sit up front and read. There is a swivel light over the computer work station aft.
They also supplied the fuse panel for the radios, lights, etc., which has a direct feeder to the battery (10g), fused on both legs.
Nowadays, I would be looking at LED units. They are really coming along. The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
nikkiwood, I just talked to my electrician today and he has the auxiliary battery in his 97 Ford 14' cube van and it is under the hood. I am looking at a 02 Chevy 12'cube van. I did notice 2 wires that were capped off in the rear of the box. Not sure what they were for, but I will probably install the auxilary battery in the box somewhere out of the way. Thanks for the info. Gary
I think you already know, but you want to run any stuff off that auxillary battery through a set of circuit breakers. I got one from a marine supply outlet that looks like this one:http://tinyurl.com/t6jnnI use the switches to control the various outlights and lighting circuits. There are probably othr ways to do it, but this one works well for my purposes.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I use it for lights, but I don't see why you couldn't hook up some kind of heater designed for 12v. It might run the battery down, but so what? It's wired to the regular battery and will recharge when I get the van underway.
Go for it. Let us know how it works out.
I am trying to remember what happens when the battery goes flat. West Marine probably has some stuff on that.
Goggled on 12 v heaters. You have some options. Electric blanket?
The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
But with an auxillary battery, when it goes dead, it does not pull on regular battery. That's why I couldn't understand why it would be a problem.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Edited 12/20/2006 10:06 pm by nikkiwood
It's the stress on the battery itself, being run flat.
From the battery university site...
Always store lead acid in a charged condition. Never let the open cell voltage drop much below 2.10V. Apply a topping charge every six months or when recommended.
Avoid repeated deep discharges. Charge more often or use a larger battery.
Prevent sulfation and grid corrosion by choosing the correct charge and float voltages.
Avoid operating lead-acid at elevated ambient temperatures.
_________________________ The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
I don't know nothin about battery technology; but I thought the whole point with deep cycle batteries was that they were designed to completely deplete the charge -- unlike their conventional cousins.I think your quote is talking about a conventional batt, no?********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I don't know nothin about battery technology; but I thought the whole point with deep cycle batteries was that they were designed to completely deplete the charge -- unlike their conventional cousins.
It has to do with the number, thickness and design of the plates in the battery.
Thanks to Goggle, I can provide this data better stated than I would... You will note that deep cycles are not designed to be run flat. Down 80%. OK.
Starting, Marine, and Deep-Cycle Batteries
Starting (sometimes called SLI, for starting, lighting, ignition) batteries are commonly used to start and run engines. Engine starters need a very large starting current for a very short time. Starting batteries have a large number of thin plates for maximum surface area. The plates are composed of a Lead "sponge", similar in appearance to a very fine foam sponge. This gives a very large surface area, but if deep cycled, this sponge will quickly be consumed and fall to the bottom of the cells. Automotive batteries will generally fail after 30-150 deep cycles if deep cycled, while they may last for thousands of cycles in normal starting use (2-5% discharge).
Deep cycle batteries are designed to be discharged down as much as 80% time after time, and have much thicker plates. The major difference between a true deep cycle battery and others is that the plates are SOLID Lead plates - not sponge. Unfortunately, it is often impossible to tell what you are really buying in some of the discount stores or places that specialize in automotive batteries. The popular golf cart battery is generally a "semi" deep cycle - better than any starting battery, better than most marine, but not as good as a true deep cycle solid Lead plate, such the L-16 or industrial type. However, because the golf cart (T-105, US-2200, GC-4 etc) batteries are so common, they are usually quite economical for small to medium systems.
Many (most?) Marine batteries are usually actually a "hybrid", and fall between the starting and deep-cycle batteries, while a few (Rolls-Surrette and Concorde, for example) are true deep cycle. In the hybrid, the plates may be composed of Lead sponge, but it is coarser and heavier than that used in starting batteries. It is often hard to tell what you are getting in a "marine" battery, but most are a hybrid. "Hybrid" types should not be discharged more than 50%. Starting batteries are usually rated at "CCA", or cold cranking amps, or "MCA", Marine cranking amps - the same as "CA". Any battery with the capacity shown in CA or MCA may not be a true deep-cycle battery. It is sometimes hard to tell, as the terms marine and deep cycle are sometimes overused. CA and MCA ratings are at 32 degrees F, while CCA is at zero degree F. Unfortunately, the only positive way to tell with some batteries is to buy one and cut it open - not much of an option.
Using a deep cycle battery as a starting battery
There is generally no problem with this, providing that allowance is made for the lower cranking amps compared to a similar size starting battery. As a general rule, if you are going to use a true deep cycle battery (such as the Concorde) also as a starting battery, it should be oversized about 20% compared to the existing or recommended starting battery group size to get the same cranking amps. That is about the same as replacing a group 24 with a group 31. With modern engines with fuel injection and electronic ignition, it generally takes much less battery power to crank and start them, so raw cranking amps is less important than it used to be. On the other hand, many cars, boats, and RV's are more heavily loaded with power sucking "appliances", such as megawatt stereo systems etc. that are more suited for deep cycle batteries. We have been using the Concorde SunExtender AGM batteries in most of our vehicles for some time now with no problems.
Back to topThe ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
Geez -- you're earning your spurs as a researcher on this ....<G>Here's what I took from this info:... Can't tell whether a aux batt is a hybrid or true deep cycle (unless you cut it apart). ... Presumably, if Ford factory equips a vehicle with an "Auxillary" battery, I just have to take their word for it that it is a true deep cycle.... If I run lights (or 12v heaters) until they go out, I assume this will not harm the aux batt (or cause any other problems) -- and I assumed this because your citation did not say it would be a problem. Is that what you took from this piece?********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
If I run lights (or 12v heaters) until they go out, I assume this will not harm the aux batt (or cause any other problems) -- and I assumed this because your citation did not say it would be a problem.
80% down, not 100%. When the system voltage reads X, time to quit, shift batteries or accept shorter battery life.
I would goggle on the West Marine site. Their catalog is full of helpful information - including articles on batteries and battery charging - which is of far more interest to a sailor than a driver. We live on these things. The current West catalog is required reading aboard my boat. The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
The specs on that 18"x18" 12V heating pad says it consumes 16W continuous, which at 12V over 12 hours would equal 16 amp-hours of power - not much from a truck battery that is probably rated well over 100AH cold cranking power. The thing uses 55W "startup" power to get up to temperature, but I think you would start it going during your drive home, so that would be no load on the battery. An insulated box like a cooler should hold heat pretty well, but not as well as the heating pad's normal use sandwiched between a foam-padded seat and someones derriere. At overnight temps near zero F, it might have to run at considerably higher than the 16W minimum but a lot less than full power. BruceT
Thank you for the technical info/interpretation.
Bryan"Objects in mirror appear closer than they are."
Klakamp Construction, Findlay, Ohio
Your advice to "Remember to unplug before taking off in the morning." is definitely worth publishing.
Over the years I've found that anything - such as gloves, or a briefcase - put down on the roof of a car 'just for a second' is sure to be forgotten.
When I worked for the Forest Service, my bosses truck had a block heater plugged into an extension cord stretched across the sidewalk and through a window to reach an outlet inside the Ranger Station office.People would trip over his cord and unplug his truck...so he got in the habit of "knotting" the cord. One day he left the office in a hurry...and you know what happened next...the extension cord went taunt and there was an awful loud noise as the cord yanked the whole window unit out of the building.The only person with a more shocked look on their face than my boss as he hung his head out his truck window, was the dude sitting at the desk in front of the hole in the building where the window used to be.
Good one.
And a sweet van setup. What do you do basswood if you need sheetgoods on the job?
I have 4 options for sheet goods:1) Slide a few sheets in over the top of the bench seat.2) Set up my tools at the job, then fold the bench seat down flat, and I can load up to 30 4'x8' sheets (3/4 ton van).3) Hook up a trailer for sheets good hauling (I share a trailer with a landscape guy).4) Pay to have the stuff delivered.
Since it's customary to put a block of ice in a cooler to keep things cold for a day or two. Doesn't it make sense to put a block of something hot in there to keep things warm? Warm up a bar of steel (or a box of nails that you will use the next day) on the wood stove or over a heat register in the house while you're at work and stuff it in the cooler (warmer?) when you get home. No extension cords to rip out of walls, no need to jump start the vehicle in the morning, and just think of it, if you use the nails for heat.......MMMMM warm nails MMMMM.:-) Sometimes we over think a problem and the solution becomes too complicated . ;-)
Now you got me thinking.How about a small slab of soapstone in the cooler.Soapstone absorbs heat and slowly radiates it out.Stick it next to a heater or light bulb during the day, stick it in the cooler at night. No power need. No dead batteries. No light bulbs.Small slab can probably be gotten from kitchen counter guys, or soapstone bricks from Vermont.Bricks are about $10.00 apiece. Rod
I gotta say.....what I originally believed was going to be a pain in the arse has turned out to be a blessing.
When I purchased my most recent pickup truck, I decided not to put a cap on it. Crawling in and out of the last one for the past 15 years was murder. Having only the tournea cover this go round, doesn't always allow me to leave all of the days tools in the truck at days end.
It has become a habit at the end of the day to back the truck up to the shop and empty out those items too large to remain overnight.
It has now become a ritual....and to be honest, I don't just stop with the oversized items. I take the time to inventory what I'll need for the next day and get rid of what I won't. It also gives me the opportunity to attention any tools in need of maintenance. It is at this time, that I pull any glues and adhesives, paints and the like inside....as well as all battery operated tools for recharging.
I guess what I'm trying to say, is rather than a means to keep the stuff in the van, make the time to pull it out at days end. It's also nice to spend a few minutes reloading and planning your day in the morning.
I use milk crates and compound buckets to transfer from truck to shop and vice versa......buckets for hand tools, milk crates for power tools.
Charges are set up on a countertop inside the shop ready to charge the batteries as I pull em in at days end.
Happy
Holidays
I do a serious unload and retool about once a week...always good to get organized and sharpen your chisels & your wits.I'm set up to minimize crawling in and out to get things. Most of my stuff is easy to reach the way my van is set up with rows of tools on curbed shelves with drawers below (design stolen from Huck).
Mine is a bastardization of yours and Huck's. Fits my Aerostar...but my mechanic keeps telling me I'll need a new transmission if I keep carrying the load...that's what he thinks.
Probably depends on how you drive. You may want to change trans. fluid more often, perhaps.Have you seen any of my other pics I posted about my van set up?Do you use your van for people hauling/family stuff too or is it a dedicated work rig?
Sorry for the long time between checking this post. Work van only...I think I am going to rip out the passenger seat. MEchanic tells me it's just an Aerostar thing. Fluid was fine, it just died. I spent the $2.5 k but he tells me I am killing it again. And it's only 11 years young. 140 on the clock, hardly broken in and it passed inspection.
I'm up for knee surgery as soon as I get tired of taking pain pills and 50$ shots. Every friend my age has had ther knees (or one of them) replaced. Doc said mine are in good shape except for the torn meniscus (whatever). Taking too big of a step off of a ladder this summer was not a good idea.
john
where is the chop saw, table saw, saw stand, garbage can, shop vac, router table, etc? just curious"it aint the work I mind,
It's the feeling of falling further behind."Bozini Latini
--"where is the chop saw, table saw, saw stand, garbage can, shop vac, router table, etc? just curious"Those load in and out of the sliding door on the side.I made a shelf to protect the back seat (which I leave in most of the time). The shelf has a curb to keep stuff in place.This van has a bunch of different configurations possible and changing from one to another only takes a few minutes.The van can sport seating for just two, or three, four, five, six or seven depending on how many seats I put in. The seats take just a few seconds to snap in. The back seats face each other around a table that pops up for mealtimes. The back bench seat folds down into a full bed or snaps out to provide max cargo space.I will haul the family in the van for our Christmas trip next week.
Edited 12/20/2006 10:56 pm ET by basswood
verry cool, safe trip to you and the family and merry christmas"it aint the work I mind,
It's the feeling of falling further behind."Bozini Latini
Thanks,Merry Christmas to you too!
Basswood,
2 things.
1)--------- if all those girls shown in that picture are yours---congrats!---what great group of kids----- I hope you are outrageously proud of 'em.---------- i DO assume maybe some of them are there "on loan"---girl scout troop????
( having had only sons-- i would have the slightest idea how to handle and raise girls, LOL)
2) Is that blue tool bag the Irwin tool bag?----------- If ya get a chance------can ya show me a picture of how you have that bag stocked?-- i have been thinking of getting that bag.
currently working most of my smaller hand tools out of a mamoth tote--that pretty much lives behind my truck seat. when most of my work was outside-that worked OK
but NOW I need to get INSIDE customers houses more often---and my existing tote impractically heavy and bulky for that. was thinking of building a few smaller wooden totes------------- but that bag might be MUCH more time and cost effective.
BTw---if ya don't have the time or intrest in showing me that------- perfectly fine don't sweat it.--------- enjoy the holidays---
Best wishes, Stephen
Have you considered one of the Veto bags?I've used one for a couple of years for all my essential hand tools, supplemented by one of those open totes from HD that sells for about $35 -- for cordless stuff, 24" level, and job specific items.I use the middle size Veto:http://www.vetopropac.com/veto-pro-pac-model-xl.php And here's a link for an outfit that makes a similar (to Veto) set of products, but in a wider variety:http://toolpak.com/Being a cabinetmaker, for years, as a kind of hobby, I made tool carriers -- trying to perfect the combination of functional efficiency and weight. I came up with some spiffy models, but none that were as good as the Veto.Too bad you're not closer; I still have some that I would be happy to give away.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
nikkiwood,
thanks for the idea--------- i think i have seen Ads for those in FHB
I am going to think this all through very,VERY carefully. I have built probably 4 pretty nice totes over the years----but ultimately have never been happy for long with each arrangement. i have pretty closely arrived at what i actually NEED in the way of hand tools( judged by declining levels of purchases over the years)--
the Veto bag looks good for about half of what i need to carry---but I need something additionally to accomodate a few bulkier items----a #5 stanley, some japanese saws, framing square, rasps etc. etc.. slowly coming to the realization that I am gonna have an easier time with 2 totes--then lugging one HEAVY one in,banging up doorways etc.
I do appreciate the Veto link--cause i now remember i have seen that ad a zillion times---but Never considered them-------got to think this through carefully
thanks again,
stephen
Do you know about Silky Japanese style saws? These are very high quality items, and best of all, the ones I have fold up, and I carry two of them in my Veto. Sphere touted them to me a couple of years ago.http://www.silkystore.com/Secure/eCommerce/Catalog.asp?prdc=3 I carry a block plane in the Veto, but there really isn't room for anything bigger, like the #5.Of the other tools you mentioned:Rasps -- I carry a Nicholson #49, which covers most of my bases; but I do also have a small rasp combo for the futzy stuff that I got from Woodcraft. Squares -- I carry both a 6" and a 12" combo; the regular carpenter's square stays in the truck, since I don't use it much for interior work.Tool management is always a big challenge, and it seems as though everybody has to devise their own particular stategy.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Nikkiwood,
I have a ryoba and a nice little japanese dovetail saw that I like a LOT----they do NOT however fold up. They DO however save a lot of trips back and forth to cut stuff outside.also-- they are quiet------- used them on a project a month or so ago----customer baby never woke up from his nap! LOL.
I use the #5 a lot on these projects---conceivably more than the block plane. the #7 lives at home-- I don't now if it has ever had to work on site.
I have a couple of canvas riggers bags with leather bottoms that I have gone back to using( used them Years ago)--- they work--and I can fit almost everything in them that I NEED---- but they are packed a little awkwardly---a lot of theings have to be unloaded to get to the #5, or the rasps,--and there is no safe,secure space for the saws.
Perhaps i will make a light,shallow, fitted, lidded box for the saws, rasps,and the #5. In the truck the lidded box can sit on the floor behind the seat and the riggers bag can sit on top of it----space efficient and easier access for everything over all.
I will tell ya a dirty secret-- at the end of the day, when the days work is done--those 2-3 minutes packing everything up into it's proper place??????keeping everything organized and orderly and ship shape????? second for second the most satisfying 2-3 minutes of the day. I doubt I am alone in that. LOL
thank you again--you have given me several good ideas to consider
Best wishes, Stephen
I would guess you have a very organized mind.In my case, I have always lived with the dictim: "a disorganized mind needs an organized work space" -- hence my mania for tool carriers. If a tool is not where it's spoze to be, I canna find it. : )One of the techniques I used for my carriers was to take pieces of small diameter PVC (or cpvc) pipe, cement them together and screw the line up to the outside of the carrier. Good for pliers, screwdrivers, nail sets, etc. Works well, easy to do, and takes less space than the wood tool holder that Gary Katz uses on the carrier linked below. HD aluminum case for small nailers, nails, etc.:http://tinyurl.com/ylw7x7The open top HomeDepot bag I use for cordless tools/accessories:http://tinyurl.com/ylet9qDIY from Gary Katz:http://www.garymkatz.com/charts/tooltote.htm********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
nikkiwood,
some form of the totebags are going to have to work for now.
currently Gary Katz's storage/step stool won't work as the transport will be a problem untill I convert operations from an open F150 with side mount toolbox----- to either a van or cap/shell on a new pickup.
stephen
Stephen,Those are my two daughters and their cousins...all girls. Thanks for the compliment.The tool tote in question is an Irwin. It is pretty good for the money. I will take a picture of it and post it next chance I get. I need to off load a few things I seldom use to make schlepping the tote easier. Lighter is better.I've been thinging about building some birch ply tool boxes myself, if things slow down.Merry Christmas!Basswood
Edited 12/23/2006 3:09 pm ET by basswood
Stephen,I just got around to taking a photo of the Irwin tool bag as I have it stocked. There is a hidden bottom compartment that holds a pull saw, coping saw, etc.
I'll give ya a hunert dollars for the whole kit.
:=)_______________________________________________________________
'what if there isn't a tomorrow? there wasn't one today' - Phil Connors
I had a similar kit stolen about 10 years ago...it took forever to figure out what I had in there and get it all replaced...and the total value would be mind-numbing.Happy New Year!
Curse the thief - may his armpits be infested with the fleas from a thousand camels!
Happy New Year to you._______________________________________________________________
'what if there isn't a tomorrow? there wasn't one today' - Phil Connors
you sell the one ya got from me or do you just want two???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Been thinkin on this one. I got several goodies from you, but I never got a kit like we're talkin about here.
So, in case you still have it, maybe ya could mail it??
Snowin' here this mornin._______________________________________________________________
'what if there isn't a tomorrow? there wasn't one today' - Phil Connors
it'll have yo be frieght collect..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Dog sled??_______________________________________________________________
'what if there isn't a tomorrow? there wasn't one today' - Phil Connors
or helo if the skies clear enough..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
what are we gonna do when gets here over the next several months???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I have three words for you to think about:
Donner party._______________________________________________________________
'what if there isn't a tomorrow? there wasn't one today' - Phil Connors
yummmmmm...
that's covered under pecking order isn't it...
awwwww what the heck...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
That's where the saying 'Women & children first' came from._______________________________________________________________
'what if there isn't a tomorrow? there wasn't one today' - Phil Connors
ahhhhh the women 1st... can do...
wunder how that will be with velveeta???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
she said not to get that crap near her...
guess it will have to be whipped cream then...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
As always, your choice of toppings._______________________________________________________________
'what if there isn't a tomorrow? there wasn't one today' - Phil Connors
basswood,
thankyou very much for posting that.
i have been away for a bit------when i checked back in, i see that Dave Meiland has started a whole seperate thread on this same subject.
Reading through that thread------- looks like what I really, Really, REALLY want is the Veto XXL---all $165 of it.
Doing a big job right now------when i finish it---- I think I will celebrate by springing for the Veto----- it will generally live behing my truck seat--maybe travel indoors 1-2 days a week------------It HAs to be lighter than the Oak tote with drawers I made, currently occupying the same location---loaded I think it's about 75-80 ponds--and hard on doorways.
thanks again for posting that----you are a class act!
Best wishes
Stephen
I'd want to bolt wheels on that Veto XXL. Actually, I think I'd prefer two smaller tool totes...one for the most used tools and the second for the goofy stuff.That Irwin works well for me...but I travel light. I can see how it could fail if overloaded (good design, but not robust enough for some).You gave me a reason to organize that tool tote, she cleaned up pretty good for the picture.Cheers,Bass
Hey basswood, The only problem with two smaller bags is you cant fit the longer tools in them. How about the XXL with a handle on each end, so your using both hands to carry it. If I remember right the XXL has a handle in the center like the smaller ones. The wheels might not be a bad idea either, I have a long CLC bag like that, but it has a zipper on top and its really hard to see the tools and to get at them, so I just use it for the big demo tools now. It looks like your Irwin is pretty well organized with plenty of room. As for the cold weather storage, lately I have just been carrying the caulk and wood glue in a red tote on the front seat of the truck. So far I havent forgot it in there, must be the red color standing out. Gary
Edited 1/7/2007 11:39 am ET by wood4rd
Ahhh, another reason to love my 12'insulated box van. Plug in the small 1500watt heater by dropping the cord out the side pipe, and into the gfi outlet on the side of the garage. No freeze, no condensation in the morning., Admittedly I don't deal with sub-freezing temps very often , but sure is nice when I do.
I use a cooler for my chalks puddys ect. (anything thats not allowed to freeze) and bring it in every night with my lunch and thermose.
the cooler is a better idea but.... when i have worked where there was no heat i would use one of those one mini refrigerators with a work light stuck inside. like someone said it takes a real small light,maybe a 15 watt to keep everything toasty.it just stays on job site and i slow as i work when it gets hot in the summer it's still there to cool down a few. larry
hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
lived in Greenland for a while. Think it got colder there than MN. ALL our vehicles plugged in, also had 115 vac heater in front of pax. kept car relatively warm. Never had to clean the w/s.