Never having had a house built, was wondering if I could get some input on some “must haves,” some of which may not be readily apparent. Examples might be 2×6 instead of 2×4 exterior framing, which would provide more room for insulation, maybe a certain gauge wire throughout the house, copper vs pvc piping, floor thickness and joist spacing, screwing vs nailing drywall, etc. If you homebuilder pros were building houses for yourselves, what might you pay extra for that a naive homeowner might not even know to ask for? Thanks!!
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
From building boxes and fitting face frames to installing doors and drawers, these techniques could be used for lots of cabinet projects.
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Fine Homebuilding Magazine
Fine Home Building
Follow
-
Fine Homebuilding
Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.
Start Free Trial Now -
GBA Prime
Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.
Start Free Trial Now
- Home Group
- Antique Trader
- Arts & Crafts Homes
- Bank Note Reporter
- Cabin Life
- Cuisine at Home
- Fine Gardening
- Fine Woodworking
- Green Building Advisor
- Garden Gate
- Horticulture
- Keep Craft Alive
- Log Home Living
- Military Trader/Vehicles
- Numismatic News
- Numismaster
- Old Cars Weekly
- Old House Journal
- Period Homes
- Popular Woodworking
- Script
- ShopNotes
- Sports Collectors Digest
- Threads
- Timber Home Living
- Traditional Building
- Woodsmith
- World Coin News
- Writer's Digest
Replies
Jeesh, where to start. I imagine that when the forum cleans itself up here shortly, this post will receive a lot of response. What part of the country are you in? Do you have any plans in mind? It would be easier to narrow things down if you have a rough idea of what you want, i.e. framing,etc. If stick framing, go with 2x6 for sure. Copper is worth it from my experience as well. Are you DIY or are you going to hire a GC? The best advice that I can possibly give you if you plan to hire would be to research your potential builders. Check references! Good Luck!
I just thought this one should be bumped to the top since we seem to be flooded with ah.... less constructive topics at the momentNever be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic.
I agree. This is the only post I was willing to open! To original poster, David, please bear with us, the forum is having a collective bad afternoon.
Thanks for the feedback!
I'm just looking at my current house in Northern Virginia, and thinking of some of the favorable and unfavorable attributes, so that if I ever get around to having a very modest vacation home built in the mountains of WVa, I can be sure to specify some of the nitty gritty, beneath the surface, details.
What don't I like (a few examples):
Drywall installed with nails instead of screws, all the nails are backing out, with my time wasted on removing nails, installing screws, spackling... I'd spec screws on a new house.
The hot water piping in the master bath really must be run inside the outside walls of the house - takes forever to get hot water in winter. I'd spec that all piping be run on interior walls.
Wood used on exterior trim, garage door, etc - way too much time spent scraping, sanding, repairing rot, etc. I'd spec something like a cellular PVC product for the trim, and maybe aluminum or something for the garage door.
Double pane windows are losing their seals, resulting in moisture between the panes. I guess I'd spec some name-brand windows in a new house.
What do I like (a few examples):
Not that I've seen a lot, but we have a very high water pressure (well system), and the house came with a big well tank, self-backflushing filter and UV light system.
The flooring is solid - supposedly the TrusJoists are either overengineered or the span was decreased.
I've got lots of friends in the Charlottesville area. Beautiful land there and westward. I'm in NW NC. Basically what your situation comes down to is what this forum is based upon. Fine Homebuilding. Not cutting corners such as what you have described in your current home. I doubt that building costs in rural WVA are too high, but finding a quality builder might be a task. That's not to stereotype, but alot of builders around here don't always use the most efficient building methods, and speed takes precedent over craftsmanship. There are still many talented and caring professionals around, just take your time and find one.
Carolina Character Rebuilders
"Making Your Old Place Look Good"
Restore-Rebuild-Reuse
David,
Drywall is my forte, so here it goes:
- Use drywall glue and screws. One can nail the perimeter of the board - no pops there.
- For corner bead use the USG Beadex or the No-Coat corner bead - more expensisve but no future cracking.
- Never leave a butt joint over an opening such as a window, door, etc. Also use a backer board for the butt joint in between the studs. Never leave a butt joint on a stud or joist.
- Use the best framing wood available. The main cause of drywall failure (cracks, ridges, etc). is wood shrinkage.
- One finishing use Durabond for the first two coats and LaFarge Rapid Coat for the final coat. Durabond is a setting compound and not effected by humidity and holds the paper tape (use only paper tape) much better. Of course, you can use the USG All Purpose Joint Compound for the final coat instead of the LaFarge, but sanding is more difficult. Make sure no heavy joint compound in the immediate angle of a right corner.
- For off right angles, use the No-Coat Ultra Flex; ya get a straight line and will not crack.
- On any vaulted ceilings, use RC-1 Channel.
Of course all of the above is for a premium job and will cost more. Advantage is a better drywall job. Oh yeah, try to use 5/8" drywall instead of 1/2".
ICF from footing to eave.
Don,
So what's ICF from footing to seave and what does dat havta do with drywall?
Dave: I am biased on stair construction.
Treads and risers mortised into 5/4 stringers for a start. Pocket screwed and glued internally.
The tread returns should be swoop mitered and attached with pocketscrews.
The balusters are best attached with the double lag bolts.
Your handrail should not have fingerjoints in it.
5/4 stringers? how bout 5/4 skirts or 2x stringers?
When I was younger I used to be able to string along 4 or 5 skirts... well, not really but it's late and I can't do much better at humor right now...
You guys knew I would have to jump in here and put in another plug for Structural Insulated Panels didn't you? They are the best bang for the construction buck going.
If not SIPS I would go with 2x4 walls and U.S. Fiber's Spray-On thermal insulation made with specially prepared hollow wood fibers treated with adhesives and fire retardant chemicals combined with a polyethylene vapor barrier.Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
Stan, what's a "swoop mitre"?
Insulated concrete forms . Run them up to the eave and there should not be any bowed walls to shim for your drywall . They have to be covered with at least 1/2" drywall to meet fire codes in most places. I would think that everything you do building a house has some relationship to the rest of the house. I was just following along in the thread , your post was the last one ,and handy when I clicked reply.
take pictures of all walls wherethere is elect or plumbing b4 sheetrock
"take pictures of all walls wherethere is elect or plumbing b4 sheetrock"
Amen and Amen!.
Excellence is its own reward!
I'll second that amen and offer a further suggestion. Do it with a digital camera, run prints and mark a few dimensions on them while you're at it.Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
or have someone hold the tape up while shooting the picture. amazing what you can figure out with zoom.
When I go to take existing conditions and dimensions for a hous einspection or to begin drawings for redo, I always take the camera. When I am installing the drawing to CAD, there is always something missing from my noes that the camera doesn't miss..
Excellence is its own reward!
Andy, I just reread the energy audit for my home. My plans are also for 9' walls. The energy saving form 2x4 to 2x6 wall was calculated to be only $13.00/yr., assuming all other building perameters the same. The numbers were "modeled" on the house design, so actual usage may be different, but I would not expect the ratio to change greatly. What would be the payback time for the difference in cost for your area?
I am also in one of the cheapest utility rate areas of the country, so my mileage per $$ is pretty good.
Dave
Dave, the heating rates here are high but even still how much more could it be?
Pretty interesting fact. Spose most all the heat goes up and out window glass.
Reckon I'll have to figure out the cost differences tween 6's and 4's.
I do kinda like the look that the windows have with deep jambs with 6's but its not all that terrably important if the costs are prohibitive.
My archy told me that I should pick out ALL the 2x4's if thats what I really wanted (which I did originally cost wise all around). She said a lot of yards sell pretty warped 9'ers. Spose I'll have to rethink all this again.
Thanks
andy
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Since Andy brought up the 2x4 vs. 2x6 issue and insulation, etc. it brings us to one of my favorite gripes; HVAC planning!
A good (or excellent) HVAC contractor should be able t take your plans and figure the load requirements for the house. The heating/cooling loads are calculated based on the number of htg./clng. degree days for your area and the type of construction you use. Number and type of windows and doors, wall/ceiling insulation,site orientation and surrounding trees, hills,etc., roof overhang, exterior finish and even flooring types all play into a good analysis. Additionally the floor plan of all floors must be considered and proper supply/return air pathways planned, or in the case of hydronic heat the location, size and placement of units for each space. All this preplanning is needed to end up with a home that is comfortabel throughout and efficient. Another benefit of early planning is getting a shop drawing of where equipment, duct runs and such need to be located. This is a tremendouse help to the builder, framer, plumber, and electrician. If the HVAC contractor is also a plumber things go even better. Conflicts about what needs to go where first and butchering of the framing is reduced to a managable jobsite level because everyone is reading from the same page.
You may want to pay for this service seperately from the installation contractor. IMO it is worth it.
Dave
For the hot water, use point-of-use heaters rather than tank-type. If electric, they can use a lot of juice, but the response time is almost immediate and the amount of hot water is essentially unlimited.
Do it right, or do it twice.
> water piping in the master bath really must be run inside the outside walls of the house - takes forever to get hot water in winter. I'd spec that all piping be run on interior walls.
This is a design issue. What you want is a floorplan that clusters the bathrooms and kitchen close together around the WH, so all the runs are relatively short, and in interior walls.
> Double pane windows are losing their seals, resulting in moisture between the panes. I guess I'd spec some name-brand windows in a new house.
Forget double pane. Go with good single pane and storm windows. Casements are easier to keep tight than double hung. Use a simple bar and screw or long hook and eye instead of those crappy crank levers that always break down.
-- J.S.
David,
I prefer 2x4 walls with 2x3 horizontal nailers over 2x6 studs, if using blown insulation. Mike Smith uses this system and I think it's really sharp. You eliminate the majority of the thermal bridging, have nice nailes for drywall, towel bars, picture frames, trim elements, etc.
Good luck with the project.
Jon Blakemore
2x6 in walls are a waste of space, money and lumber,IMO.
Foam is big on my pro list. ICFs and Thermax sheathing or spray installed foam in place.
You mentioned joist thickness, but that is a function of design layout and room size.
Plaster walls are nice.
Study on structures wireing or conduit for later pulls.
Giver the water someplace to go. Pay atention to perimeter drains and soils grading
Window flashing details solve a lot of probelms before they happen.
Prepainted Cement siding.
Excellence is its own reward!
Piff
Even though its not in my plans I've decieded to use 2x6 exterior framing. The ceiling heights will be a minimal of 9' high. 2x4's would be insufficient if you ask me as well as the insulating factor. 2x4's at those heights from my past experiance are more crowned than 8'ers.
In my first house I framed the 1st floor with 2x4's and 2nd floor in 2x6's....the 2nd floor was incredably warmer (and cooler in summer) than the first floor with
the added insulation.......plus it made me feel better for some dang reason.
Be substantial
andy.....PS..lets not leave out passing pipes and wires through dem 2x's........hate those plumbers,,,,,,,,major!!!!!
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
You detail it with foam and you can get better insulation in a 2x4 wall than fibreglas in a 2x6 wall.
crowning studs? That's another topic, for sure!.
On a nine foot ceiling, I would buy twelve footers. The offcuts would work for cripples. the longer wood comes from a better part of a larger tree. Eght foot studs alsmost always come from the treetops, knots and wane.
Same comparison for pine 1by materials. 1x8 is 100% better than 1x6 .
Excellence is its own reward!
Now that is good info to know. Always wondered why my 8 foot studs would curl up like a boy scout's first attempt at knot tying and the 14 footers could lay out in the weather for months and not be any worse for the wear.
That little tidbit may just change the way I do takeoffs from now on.
-Thanks-Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
no offense Piff but I hate you....lol
wanna give me a week in a few when I start framing?????
Did I say I hate you? You so suck!
Still think the a and p show'd knock em all off the air waves....
I laugh every time I think about it.....
you still suck though....lol
Be well bro......
a
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
ifn yer tryin to git a rise outta someone, I gotta guy in mind who riles way easier...
;).
Excellence is its own reward!
Piff
we're not allowed..did ya forget already?
Oh yeh, its the weekend.
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
The best thing you can do to ensure a quality home is hire a experienced quality builder. The rest will follow by hiring the right person. The bidding process should help you figure out this, Dont take some person who says ill build it for $x a sq ft.
This sounds tough if you dont know where to begin, but ask around the lumber yards, talk to the homebuilders association and put the word out that youre looking for a good builder.
A builder is youre liason and will know what to do. Minimum code requirements usually means sub-par work.
Ask him about his subs, if he has regular long standing subs then that says something. If he/she changes subs per house then something isnt right.
Read up as much as you can.
Few things that I like!
9ft walls (104 5/8 studs)
full wood trimed windows (not drywall wraped jambs)
NO MDF ! trim Oak or painted trim!
Large size tile in the baths (no 4x4 wall tile)
Real ply-wood, keep the OSB for walls, true ply-wood floors & roof!
Brick (you can never have to much brick)
Trexs type decking
Best of Luck to You!
Hmmm...
I'll base my answer "today" on a rental I'm living in and it's short comings.
Make a nice kitchen, quality cabinets, lot's of counterspace and outlets. Check some independant small cabinet makers for some pricing. Skip HD at all costs!
Make sure you get ample power to the house for all your imagined needs. Don't forget the garage and outside. Adding electrical after the fact can be pricey. You can't have too much.
Same with plumbing. Get the best and cry once. By this I mean fixtures etc... If you want a nice tub/shower do it now.
Solid windows and doors with Grade 1 locksets. Skip vinyl. Skip HD. Once again check out a millworks outfit..you'd be suprised what you can get semi-custom quality doors and windows for.
One last thing before I run, hook up with a good GC. Sounds like you'll be doing some of the work yourself so find one that will work with you, not side by side but who's willing to spend extended broken up time. The more they can do, ie finish and framing.. the better deal you may get.
Best of luck!
N
Plumb walls and sqaure corners, and I am not talking about 1/4" in 8' I am talking about dead plumb, corner beads that are straight, but with the aforementioned it would not be a problem.
Mark
Prewire for speakers everywhere, internal/external, it seems a bit much for now...but when you need it......great idea.
Have a Stan-Foster built staircase,and hire a little known guy from Vancouver/Whistler to do all your timber,logwork and Arts& Crafts furniture...(shameless plug...) but most seriously, hire a good GC and work with him/her for YOUR benefit, it's your home, get what YOU want!, Cheers,Phil.If it is to be.... 'twil be done by me.
Not enough information! How "green" do you want to build? Check out this site, http://www.nahn.com. This is the National Affordable Housing Network, they have house plans at 1092 sq. ft. with energy cost at $350.00. a year in Butte, Montana. Thats electric, heat and hot water!
An good electrical contractor will question your needs and wire for the present and hopefully the future. Copper is great and the old stand-by. A good Drywall contractor will use mostly screws but there is some areas where nails can be used without worry or the chance of call backs.
Research the contractors you will use, references from prior clients is the best advertisement a contractor can have.
Before you ask this question, you might want to specify , on a scale of one to ten, your level of design, comfort, affordability, etc. If not, you will have every other builder's dream home at a price none of us can afford.
A couple of small points amid all of this worthy advice...
If you think of using stucco (cheap and durable, for So-Cal) I've read that running it all the way to the ground creates an easy pathway for certain pests to get up into your framing. There is a fungus that crawls up from the ground underneath the stucco (possibly other coverings) called Crypto-Sporidium that will make mince-meat of your studs in a few years. Covering the foundation with stucco to the dirt is common practice here, it sucks.
An article (probly in FH) showcased a technique to keep sub. termites at bay, that utilized copper flashings placed under the mudsill that stood proud of the foundation to prevent the buggers from crawling up.
Jen
Floor drain in the utility room !
Greg
and in the upstairs bathroom floor too!
(floor drain, that is)
Norm
Haven't seen anybody mention what they thought would be the ultimate for a subfloor. Anybody ever seen something like this used. it's 2" ACX plywood. Pricey but solid.
Jon
Man, strained my back just looking at that picture!Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
I'm not a pro, but I am building my own house after the "dry in". I would again use an ICF ( I used Polysteel). Select an experienced contractor for whatever system you choose,because an out of plumb concrete wall is a bitch to hang rock on. At least it was for a dufus like me. Strongly consider PEX plumbing supply lines. There are several manufacturers with websites. Then troll the archives re discussions of same. The system is great with a centralized manifold to control all faucets, etc. Solid core doors. Flood Saver for washer in laundry room. Bathroom vent fan or fans in attic remote from the grill in the ceiling to keep things quiet. Same with kitchen hood fan. Check the Fantech website. Dual fuel stove lets you cook if the electricity goes out. Gas on top is good, and electric ovens heat more evenly usually. If you have few carpets then install a central vac system. Place the canister reasonably out of the way and it's quiet. Do not put hardwood in the kitchen unless you don't have kids, and your are OC about cleaning up spills.
What you do with the other 3/32 of an inch.
McDill AFB uses 2 layers of that in a lot of their buildings. Steel truss / joists 12" oc, 10' CL spans. 5x10 sheets. AC fir T&G to boot. Aw gawd the work.
IMERC,
Honestly, I didn't think anyone used it. WOW! Just in my line of work, I come across all sorts of interesting mtrls. Thought I'd share it. It really is heavy. When I here there is some coming in and needs to be ripped, I try to make myself scarce.
But, for a subfloor. I'll bet it feels almost like walking on concrete.
Back to work.
Jon
(what do you use to nail it/screw it down?)
Jen
LOL
Drywall screws, of course!
;)
.
Excellence is its own reward!
Why I oughta...;)
Jen
Whatever works...
"(what do you use to nail it/screw it down?)"
Jen,
Really long screws plus glue
Jon
What line of work is that?
Need a truck parked out side the door for some of those unmanagable items?
"What line of work is that?"
IMERC,
Industrial prototyping. Kind of like a combination of toolmaking, pattern and modelmaking, etc.
Jon
Yup... You need a truck out side the door.. LOL
Only place I've seen anything that thick was in the Army. Used to drive around in an M113 armored personel carrier. Had a fold down panel in front of the engine compartment that was a metal frame with about 2" thick plywood inside.
Someone once explained to me it was designed so it could be folded down at an angle to help keep the nose up when crossing water. Think they gave up on making the 113's floatable at some point, but they still built them with the thick plywood panel on the front.
From an electrical standing here are my recommendations:
Copper. All wiring, including mains and feeders, in copper. All panels with copper bus bars. Tin plated aluminum bus bars can last a long time but will go south much faster and offer fewer options than solid copper bars. Often these panels are marked for for outdoor use. That ought to tell you something.
Conduits. Not everywhere unless your made of money but empty conduits run from attics and every floor and crawl spaces to the panel will pay for itself many times over if any upgrades or repairs are needed. Run telephone, network and cable TV in oversized conduits. This makes upgrading and rewiring a breeze.
Don't short yourself on breaker space or feed capacity. Even on smaller homes 200A is so small an extra cost that it is, unless constrained by other considerations, the smallest I usually install. Even if you only need twenty spaces get a 40 space panel. The difference is usually under $40 in materials. There is little, or no, difference in labor. If a breaker, or three, go bad and burn the stabs off the bus bars you have stabs to spare. Often the difference between a $500 and $50 dollar job.
Oversize any feeders to A/C or resistance heating disconnects. If you ever need to upsize the unit your all set. Also these runs will run cooler and can save you a bit of money if they are long and the units get used a lot. While the electricians are putting in the runs get them to stuff a foot or so extra of cable into the wall. Looping the conductors, within reason, in the disconnects makes a burnt lug or replacing the disconnect much easier.
Pull loops at each box can also save trouble and, if the electricians are used to the method, save installation time. It is a wash. More cable used but it goes in easier. The extra longevity because repairs decades later are easier is the big payoff.
Don't short your house on circuits or outlets. If there is any chance at all that they might, in the future, want a circuit, switch or receptacle go ahead and get a box installed and everything wired for that contengetcy. Better a few blank plates over places where devices were not installed than having to fish cables in after the drywall is installed because the HO wants a dedicated computer circuit of an extra receptacle over the counters. Extra outlets in any garage and one on each side of the house makes sense on any but the smallest houses built within the tightest budget. Even then the boxes can be wired and blanked off. Later, as needed, receptacles can be installed.
Run four wire cables to all overhead lights and anywhere a three-way switch or switched receptacle might be wanted. It is a lot easier to cap off unused conductors than add conductors after the fact. The extra cost is a budget breaking five cents extra a foot.
Get plans drawn and have details as well once you decide what you want. Specifications describe in detail what level of materials and finish you want. This way the bids that come in are working off of the same plans. Apples to apples so to speak. Alot of builders have big egos and like to do things thier way. That's why they're builders. The plans you have and the specifications will help assure that you get what you want. Be prepaired to stick to your guns.