I have a Toro snowthrower – and its almost snow time here in the mid-west. 2 cycle 50:1 mix. It starts – new plug and fresh gas – but will not stay running for more than 30 seconds. Starts ever time but quits every time as well. Anyone know a web site I can find that gives remedies for such transgressions? Or, better yet, can tell me what I did to deserve this type of treatment from a power tool?
Mike
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Replies
When that has happened to me, I always figgered it was God laughing at me.
I'm looking forward to a real answer.
Sometimes you end up with enough gunk in the carb to cause a problem. What I've found usually takes care of those types of problems for me is to access the carb and find the typical 2 screws on the carb... the air mixture screw and the idle adjustment screw. Remove both, counting the number of turns until they come out. Make sure you remember which one is which. After making sure there are no small o-rings/washers still up in the carb, I spray up into the carb with carb cleaners a few times. I spray down the idle/air screws also, and reinstall (counting number of turns). Then fire it up.
This way you're not removing the carb and risking having to replace gaskets and have to deal with removing throttle linkage, etc. It's a quick fix that usually works.
If you truly have a fresh gas/oil mix and new plug, this should get you back up running again.
Usually if you empty out the gas in the spring and run it dry you won't have problems. But I have done just that and still occasionally had problems... Not often, but sometimes. I think I prefer to put fresh gas in at the end of the season w/ fuel stabilizer... And to really avoid a problem, fire it up once or twice during the summer.
Thanks Rusty: I did, in fact, run it dry in the Spring. The gas is fresh - unless my local gas station has stale gas. I did add the appropriate amount of stabilizer to my gas and then mixed for the 50:1 ratio. I'll try your trick with the carb cleaner. I have never done that and I suspect there might be gunk in the carb itself - at least that makes sense.The best advice you gave - start it from time-to-time during the summer.Now to figure out how to get to the carb and find the screws you are refering to. They made this ting to be very secretive - even the plug is pain to get to.Thanks again, Mike
My first guess would be that the fuel mix has probably degraded the fuel line or the fuel line is partially plugged or the vent on the gas cap is plugged or the fuel shutoff is not fully open.
This would allow only a slow flow of fuel into the carb. The small amount of fuel in the line and carb will burn off and the engine will run long enough to use that much fuel and then stop. The fuel will again fill up slowly and the cycle will repeat itself.
There may also be a filter inside the gas tank that could be plugged. Sounds like a fuel flow problem of some type. I would disconnect the fuel lines and check and clean everything from the tank to the carb.
sounds like my sthil chain saw , repair man says it likley needs a carb kit ( took it in yesterday )
Did it sit with gas in it all summer? If so, you've probably got varnish in the carb. A carb rebuild would fix it.
What you describe is related to fuel, either fuel isn't flowing fast enough to the carb or the carb is not filled with sufficient fuel to keep the engine running.
Check to see that fuel is getting to the carb or alternatively, to the fuel pump and then to the carb. Many, if not most, have fuel pumps that run off crankcase pressure fluctuations generated by the piston motion up and down in the cylinder bore. Anything that disrupts that crankcase pressure will cause the problems you describe. Make sure your oil fill tube is tight and the nut in the oil drain (oil plug) is tight too, no air leaks to the crankcase at all.
I had a similar problem with my four cycle B@S 8 horse engine. Aside from the fact it was a Briggs and Stratton engine, piece of junk, the engine was getting fuel (eventually) to the carb but the flow was insufficient to keep the engine running for more then a minute or so. It would start again but then only run for a short period of time, just like you describe. Turned out that crankcase oil had gotten sucked (or pushed) up into the vacuum line to the fuel pump, partially filled the fuel pump diaphragm with oil and that defeated the fuel pump operation. Eventually it caused the fuel pump to fail completely.
I replaced the fuel pump ($15) and it's run great since. It's still a BS engine so it doesn't run as well or as dependable as a Honda but hey, I only use it three or four times a year.
Thanks for all your help. To answer some of your questions:1. The fuel is completely burned off in the Spring. I run the snowblower and then empty the tank of any residual. 2. I do replace the plug each season.3. I do not think the Toro has a fuel pump. They carb works off some type of siphon system. But that does not mean the filter is not plugged or the fuel line plugged. Thanks for that suggestion.The machine has a plunger to help start the engine. Push in the plunger a couple of times and it gets gas to the carb. If I push that 20 30 times I can get it started and then is when it dies. I also should add - if it makes any difference - that on many of the starts I have a significant back-fire. Not always just some of the time. Remember I have started this thing 30 times anly to have it die each time. My back is crying for relief.I'm trying now to find a manual for this model on-line so I can find the best way of getting to the carb etc.Remember I am a NOVICE but love to learn and of course save $$.Mike
>>"I do not think the Toro has a fuel pump."You might be correct.In a number of two cycle engines, the fuel pump has been incorporated into the bottom half of the carb. It's nothing more than a tiny little diaphragm that uses vacuum to create movement in the diaphragm. And because it's so tiny, and it's movement is even tinier, the smallest piece of foreign matter will cause you to be "hosed".In general, rebuilding the carb on a small-engine two-cycle is not worth the money. A new carb is likely to be less than $75, and the labor to rebuild the old one would be more.
One hint for the future -- go back and read the owner's manual. It might specify 89-octane gas for the mix. (Stihl and Echo both specify 89 for all of theirs....)
I won't be laughing at the lies when I'm gone,
And I can't question how or when or why when I'm gone;
I can't live proud enough to die when I'm gone,
So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here. (Phil Ochs)
Dear Yes: If I was organized enough to have the manual - I have it it just cannot find me! I will use the 89 octane in the future. I also agree about the carb, no need to rebuild but replace. Thanks, Mike
I've had a couple of mowers with this problem. Plunger pumps enough fuel into the bowl to start and run it briefly but then dies from fuel starvation. Found I could keep them running as long as I kept pumping the fuel. Usually turned out to be a cracked fuel line, suction is weakened enough that it doesn't draw fuel but manually pumping gets enough there.
Ok, you pump the primer bulb, but how about pulling the choke out?Sometimes you need to restart at half choke ( no primer pump), then when it's running kill the choke.
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Sphere: The choke was out 1/2 of the time - about 40 abrupt starts/stops and then I put it in for the remaining 40. For some reason my right arm is about 6 inches longer than my left today? I am going to try the carb cleaner fix. If that does not work I do have a sludge hammer in my garage.Today we get 8 inches of wet crusty snow. Ouch!Thanks again, Mike
That snowbloer is too small for that amount of snow. Get a real snowblower with 2 stage and 4 cycle engine.
See how easy that is to solve. Sell the small one on craigslist!
sometimes them primer bulbs get little cracks in them, engine runs fine at idle but you lose prime when you hit the throttle.
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Sounds like you need to rebuild the carb. Kits are about $10 or $15 at the lawn and power shops. Really easy to rebuild, just remember to count the turns on the fuel and idle screws and use plenty of carb cleaner. As far as preventing to problem. What i do is at the end of the season mix some fuel stabilizer with your gas, and run the blower out of fuel. Fill it with fresh fuel before the first snow fall, and it should start.
PANIC CHAOS DISORDER.........my work is done here.
Before I go into any disassembly, I spray carb cleaner into the throat of the carb. It is usually accessible from the outside of the unit or with very little disassembly. If you can get it running or while it is burning out the prime, try spraying it then. Be careful of backfires and wear eye protection. Good Luck
Clean carb, check fuel lines for cracks/breaks, sounds like your sucking air.
I am sucking air or the snowthrower is? There is a big difference and I know I suck - air that is. Thanks for the suggestion(s) I did get it started and it remained this weekend. (I only have access to this site during the week) I cleaned the carb and replaced the air filter. Good to go - I hope.Mike
Well, unless you get the snow blower fixed, you will be the snow blower.I have to work on mine, not ready yet, wife wants ceramic tile in bathroom first, snow is expected for this week!!!!!But we are going to have nice tile!!
Try running some "Sea Foam" spray into the carb during your 30 sec. run and let it set for awhile. I've been running non spray "Sea Foam" in my 2 stroke motors for several seasons and have had wonderful success. Several oz. added to the fuel keeps everything working properly.
Check to make sure that your fuel line is not cracked, thus letting air enter the fuel system.
Okay, I'll bite. I really hope this is not a joke and I prove myself to be an idiot. What in the world is 'sea foam'? I know I used to eat a candy as a kid we called sea foam but that amount of sugar is usually what disgruntled girlfriends put into a pickup when ex's are found with new women. Of course, there is the 'real' sea foam found on the coasts but I live in mid-America. So help me out here - what is it and where do I find it?If it is a joke well congratulations I took the bait - now catch and release.Mike
This is the real McCoy!
Sea Foam is made in Eden Prairie MN. if your local auto supply doesnt stock it, go to http://www.seafoamsales.com .
Get that thing running yet?
When I initially replied to you, I was chuckling thinking about how my snowblower and I finally made peace. I got mine for free (can't complain about the price), and the first year I had it it worked great. It's a small blower, 2-stroke.
The next year, it didn't want to keep running unless I kept it choked. Unchoke it, blah, dead. Of course as the season went on, it got worse... until I was sick as a dog (fever, chills and all) and we got pounded with snow and I knew if I didn't clean it up it would melt, re-freeze, and I'd have one big mess. So, of course, the blower didn't want to keep running when I needed it most. I rarely abuse power equipment, but I gave that thing one major ***-kicking. If the neighbors saw me, they were probably pointing in horror as they saw me throwing it, kicking it, basically treating it like the proverbial rented mule. It was not the time to pick a fight with me.
So, when I got better, I cleaned the carb the quick and dirty way I suggested and got it running great. Then, after a new axle rod (ala galv rod from Lowe's) and a new wheel, (don't know why I needed those ;-D )... my blower and I now have an understanding.
It's like a significant other... ya need to pay it some attention every now and then, or it will let you know that you haven't... at the worst possible time.
I had to find out too!!!!!
http://www.seafoamsales.com/
Check the fuel line - gasoline with 10% ethanol (E 10) degrades plastic - widespread problem.
http://www.fuel-testers.com/ethanol_engine_precautions.html
Jeff
When I had a 2-cycle and it was acting like that it was because the "carb" (or whatever they call it on those things) was gummed up. I found that heavily dosing the gas with Stabil helped a lot, though getting it running long enough for it to ungum itself can be difficult.
Edited 12/7/2009 9:19 pm by DanH