Prospective client lists some requirements for his design, including being able to hear “no boat motors from any nearby lake, car/truck noise from nearby highways, neighbor’s barking dogs,” and “withstands 500-year flood conditions, 500-year snow, 500-year winds.”
That’s on page 1 of 7.
I have a feeling I should quickly be too busy to take on a new project, huh?
Were does one get 500 year wind data, anyway? Wonder if Chris Columbus had an anemometer on the Santa Maria?
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Replies
Give away the dog...
Move / reroute the highway...
Drain the the lake...
As for the 500 year data... IIRC...
http://gis.ca.gov/catalog/BrowseRecord.epl?id=21987
I suspect yur serious.....
Those other 6 pages must be real eye openers...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
What did that guy in Manhattan sell his apartment for? $600K ft²?
Tell him, sure you can do it. The designs fees will be $500 ft² w/ 1/2 down.
Then get busy and figure out how to do it.
SamT
http://www.myfloodzone.com/
http://www.fema.gov/maps.shtm
Since you never said where yur client is...
Get the goobermint involved...
Now you gotta D&C the black helos...
Think Luka will loan you his hat???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
For half of that 500 dollars a square foot, I will.
;)
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow
Since I'm gonna broker that deal... fer the other half...
I think we'll do alright...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Cool !!
Gotta watch Jim, though.
Knowing him, he'll try to convince us it's some kinda newfangled dome thing, and there ARE no square feet in the whole thing. Just curved ones.
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow
think Sam will watch our other back...
so yur saying this place won't have square feet it will have round feet so saith Cloud...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
That's okay...
We'll charge on sliding curve...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
billing on a sliding curve will fetch us more....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Hey Cloud...
Where do you want Luka and I to submit billing to???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
HEY!!!!! you are not leaving anything for Piffin. Lets cut some slack here,, ok??The more I learn, the richer I become, if I ever stop learning life here will no longer be worth living.
There's a 100K a foot laying around out there...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
>Now you gotta D&C the black helos...
This guy used to pilot them.
You think I'm kidding? Not until you see the smiley.
Seems like a setup for a whole lot of bitchin and moanin later, or worse. No motor boat noises? (And "no" was in bold, which according to his legend meant non-negotiable requirement.) Think we'd need spray polyurethane foam between panes of glass to stop that!!!
Also, wants minimal noises audible from room-to-room and within-room sound deadening (his words)--examples given are piano playing and stereo--but wants an open floor plan. His words, too. Soooooo, he'll play piano in one part of a wall-less room and not hear it in another!
Just goes on and on. Haven't before seen a residential requirements list that read so much like a military procurement spec. Bleech. And that's not even getting into room sizes (large) that need to fit within a 2000 sf shell!
Aside from me having fun with this spec before turning the project down, any of y'all get jobs with this sort of.......what's a good word?..... obsessive.... particular.... anal... requirement's list? Do tell!
Also, wants minimal noises audible from room-to-room and within-room sound deadening (his words)--examples given are piano playing and stereo--but wants an open floor plan. His words, too. Soooooo, he'll play piano in one part of a wall-less room and not hear it in another!
That you can do. But it'll take some interesting electronics/engineering, given what I presume your accoustics are, opposite of ideal for the task.
No noises means no matter how sensitive his receptive equipment is? Good luck with that. Ever see a report on the guy traveling around trying to find periods of no man-made noise? Don't remember the duration, maybe 10 minutes. Just about doesn't exist, anywhere.
I've normally told prospects that pretty much anything's possible. Offered to disappear a refer into the attic once. Security can be making large pieces of concrete move. The guy who wanted a remote controlled machine gun on the roof got turned down, legal issue. Except for him, they always backed down when we got to talking money. Before you back off, give some thought to how much fun you might have with an unlimited budget. And an attorney to make sure the contract's not worded such that you are prevented from successful completion.
(I'll get to your other question shortly.)PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
This guy is looking for an LP/OP....
He wants too much quiet... Or he way paranoid...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Cloud,
Seriously.
Yer gonna need an ATTITUDE to deal successfully with this guy. Better get Jef Buck and Bob Walker as your team. Lock 'em in a room alone fer too hours before they meet the CFH*.
Sorry, Luka and Imerc. Youse guys are too nice.
Double your rates, bill by the hour, a hefty deposit, all hours paid in advance, and no garuntees.
If he buys that, go for it
SamT
*CFH=client from H____
Electronic noise cancellation (like they use in those headphones).
Probably give him brain cancer though.Our quarrel with the world is an echo of the endless quarrel within us. - Eric Hoffer
I'll look....think there's a clause about brain cancer, too.
###
Part of my casualness about turning it down is be/c the queue is really full at the moment. If it was empty, I'd probably do all things possible to see it in a more compelling light. The other clients are a lot more relaxed, and so, will be a lot more fun to work with than this gentleman appears to be.
send him a letter stating you would be more then happy to do a feasability study of his list of wishes, for xx,xxx dollars, once completed the design stage can begin with more realistic and less competeing goals for another xx,xxx dollars.
he'll never call back.
not enough X's...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Hey cloud....I just remembered something. I framed a house for a builder this spring. The builder told me that when he first met the client, he was cold......all of a sudden, they found a bridge and the relationship took off.
I avoid difficult builders unless were in sync with what's important.
don't write this guy off without exploring his true character. Some of these guys are the best clients and they are excellent referral sources. Their friends know how anal they are and automatically choose you on future projects.
Add a hefty premium for PR.
blue FRAMING ADVICE ALERT!!!! DON'T TAKE ANY FRAMING ADVICE FROM ME. I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT. IF YOU WANT GOOD FRAMING ADVICE, JUST ASK GABE. DON'T ASK ANYONE ELSE....JUST ASK GABE! REMEMBER, I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT FRAMING...I JUST BS ABOUT IT.
END OF ALERT!
"any of y'all get jobs with this sort of.......what's a good word?..... obsessive.... particular.... anal... requirement's list? Do tell!"
I did a thread called A Sense of Foreboding in 2003 about a job with some ridiculous specs.
Then I did a followup called Boogerin' with Boss in April that was a followup.
After that 2nd thread, I never did hear back about the job. To my knowledge the house never got built.Integrity means being at peace with yourself and with God.
Just give all occupants and guests Bose noise cancelling headsets. Tell him he can put an extra one in the backside because he surely has his head up his ### if he thinks this can be done within reason. He needs an accoustic engineer not structural/design.
Bob
Aside from me having fun with this spec before turning the project down, any of y'all get jobs with this sort of.......what's a good word?..... obsessive.... particular.... anal... requirement's list? Do tell!
Yup... Turned them down too..
I think the natural babbling brook / fishing hole thru the house was the most "different" one I came across...
he doesn't want this job done or he's looking for free 'cause the "specs" weren't met...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
more dribble http://rredc.nrel.gov/wind/pubs/atlas/tables/A-2T.html
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Sounds like trouble to me also.
But hey - At least he told you up front, instead of halfway through.
I've missed over 9,000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times I've been trusted to take the game-winning shot . . . and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed [Michael Jordan]
Re noise: a couple of sharpo "claps" over each of his ears ought to take care oif that pretty easily.
Re 500 year flood, snow, winds: average life expectency in the US is 77.2 years.
Subtract his age from that for you calc figure: e.g., if he's 27.2 years old, use a 50 year figure for those calcs.
Except - if you're older than him, subtract your age from that 77.2 .....{G}
I think a big chunck of "success" is business is managing clients' expectations. His are so far out of whack that the project has "failure" writ large regardless of how you perform.
Is he an engineer, by any chance?
The key to forgiving others is to quit focusing on what they did to you, and start focusing on what God did for you. Max Lucado
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
I, too, figured I didn't need to cover the next 500 years, but just his lifespan or mine!
>Is he an engineer, by any chance?
Military fighter pilot. The requirements list was the first time I had one presented as a formal, numbered outline, complete with key for bold v plain text.
fwiw, I have pleaded too busy to accept this commission, which is the truth.
Fighter pilot?
Maybe the "sneak up behind him and clap his ears" isn't a good way to go on the sound issue .....The key to forgiving others is to quit focusing on what they did to you, and start focusing on what God did for you. Max Lucado
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
>> ... I have pleaded too busy to accept this commission ...
You've probably done the right thing.
As a software engineer, I love a detailed requirements list, for several reasons. It makes it easier to come up with an accurate estimate of what the project will cost. It makes it easier to know when you're done. It makes it easier to get through quality assurance because you can argue that you don't have to fix any bugs that don't affect the requirements. That doesn't always work, but I have seen it work to prevent the testers from just making up new hoops to jump through. And the more detailed the requirements, the easier it is to see when the customer is making mutually contradictory demands.
IMO, the way to deal with this sort of thing, if you have some reason, such as starvation, to want the job, is to make the customer supply the numbers and the definitions. Sound level of what dB in what room(s) when there is a motorboat on the lake, measured by what ANSI or UL standard measuring technique. Same for the street noise and barking dog. Make him supply the actual flood level, snow fall, and wind speed. Make him define the process for measuring the wind speed at the house if any damage occurs, to prove that it was below his specified limit. Make him specify if "withstand 500 year wind" includes airborne debris or not, and what size of airborne debris.
With numbers in hand, you can design a house that will meet his requirements, unless, like I said, there are contradictory requirements. And you can tell him how much it's going to cost. At which point he will puke, but that's not your problem.
The reason nobody build houses to those standards is because it would cost more than insuring against those hazards. Certainly more than insurance for the rest of his life, and very possibly more than insurance for the next 500 years.
The other thing to make sure of when working with people like this is that they never owe you money. You should always owe them work instead, or be even.
look... are we losing sight of the wording here ?
i mean.. what's the difference between a 100 year storm & a 500 year storm
my guess.. not much.... they are both pretty severe..
and yet we often design systems for 100 years storms.
not too long ago we were not even designing for wind uplift
now we're designing and building for 110 MPH.. and 120 in some of our zones ( 10 miles south of me )..
so..
what are the parameters of a 500 year storm ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
It wasn't that tree that put me on guard, it was the whole forest. That amount of gory detail before we've even met and been introduced? Some of the specifics that were obviously important to him, but seemed like traps to me. It was a smallish house, but I could see getting bogged down in an endless list of unnecessary details. At best, I'd have been spending a lot of time explaining why much of what he was discussing was either not relevant or not possible for his project.
500 year winds would have been no problem. Same with 500 year snow. 500 year floods depend a bit on the land he bought and not on building style. No boat noise? No dog noise? No noise from one room in an open floor plan to another? And on and on for 7 pages? Tired just thinking of answering every item on that list. The money wouldn't be worth the aggravation in this case. Another day, another time, maybe.
Might be a good fit for someone else...
i don't know cloud... sems like your domes could easily meet these requirements.. at least a lot easier than regular houses with intersecting planes..
sound, wind, and rain should bounce off your shell..
i'd take him on.. just make sure you get paid for the extra work
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
>seems like your domes could easily meet these requirements
Some, yeah, but I didn't list all the requirements either. Get the feeling they'd be endless and that he'd eventually be impossible to please.
Fortunately I could be a little picky for once. My current/upcoming clients are really cool and have the dance card pretty full.
Run!
blue
FRAMING ADVICE ALERT!!!! DON'T TAKE ANY FRAMING ADVICE FROM ME. I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT. IF YOU WANT GOOD FRAMING ADVICE, JUST ASK GABE. DON'T ASK ANYONE ELSE....JUST ASK GABE! REMEMBER, I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT FRAMING...I JUST BS ABOUT IT.
Probably unenforceable.
Dogs? What dog. Some are mute. Others are loud as a gun.
Boat? A john boat with an electric trolling motor or a air boat running a V-8 without a muffler?
Who is listening? You don't mention an actual noise level or standard. A young person without a lot of rock exposure would differ from a 98 year-old man without his hearing aids.
What are the ambient noise levels. Rural quiet or in the flight path for LAX.
Wind and snow loads? Have done with it. Copy the DoD design for a nuclear silo or maybe a Seigfied line bunker. Build an artificial island 50' tall to make it floodproof. Build it cost plus.
I realize you have wisely forgone involvement with this project, but....
...being able to hear "no boat motors from any nearby lake, car/truck noise from nearby highways, neighbor's barking dogs,"....
I think you need to approach this from a different angle - perhaps something a simple as a cheap dishwasher with the 'off' switch disabled would meet his requirements with minimal impact on the budget....