Done this many times, but have a wrinkle this time. Replacing a ceiling can in the center of a room with a ceiling fan. Taking the switched feed out of the outlet box and snaking a wire between the ceiling joists to power a track light run. I also want to run a couple of wall washers controlled by the same switch as the track. Can I use the track to provide feed to those new wall washers (putting a junction box at one end of the track and going back into the ceiling and running wires down a different set of ceiling joists), effectively treating the track as if it were 14/2?
Thanks, Carlos
Replies
Bump.
I have a feeling about this, but will wait for an electrician to weigh in.
This would be rather, ah... , rather dubious.
As far as electrical theory goes, this would work as long as you don't overload the circuit. What are the watts/amps of the lights on the track and the wall-washers?
As far as the Code goes, this would be rather unorthodox. The main thing I can think of is the requirement that things be installed according to the manufacturer's instructions. Is this going to be inspectected by an official Elactrical inspector? If so, I would be prepared to extend the 14-2 to the wall washers.
~Peter
I used to be the hairdresser for Yul Brynner.
Thanks all. yes I agree it would be a bit unorthodox, that's why I'm checking here. Haven't done the load calculations yet, wanted to get a feel for whether it passed the smell test first. Track would use low voltage halogen spots, the ones with the built-in transformers.
Someone mentioned a polarized feed on the track being a problem. Here's more thoughts on this. My Thought was to wire the wall washers to the track as if it were the power feed to the track -- junction box in the ceiling with one end of the wire going to the wall washers and the other end going to the power attachment points on the track connector, so it it wouldn't be a question of trying to "plug" the wall washers into the track (I maybe a DIY homeowner, but I try not to be too stupid) . A few feet up from this would be another junction box where the wires would come from the original junction box that now holds a ceiling fan. These would connect using what Lightolier calls a "floating connection", a connection that is designed so that you can power a track from something other than an end point.
So all the connections would use standard fittings from the track, albeit in a somewhat unorthodox manner. Does this change anyone's thinking?
Thanks again, Carlos
Well Carlos, you're definitely creative. However I seriously doubt this would be to code. First the track would have to rated at 15 amps and be grounded, and rated for the application. Second, if you could get the feed connection to fit on both ends of the track, the polarity would be reversed - i.e. black and white would be reversed where you tap off the track (I'd have to see the track to be sure). The best I can suggest would be to use a long flex bit and drill though the joist, just watch out for hvac ducts, electrical, water lines, etc., etc.
Lots of luck
Tim
Thanks for the thoughts, I'll check with the manufacturer and see what they say. The appeal to this approach, of course, is that it lets me run "wires" across ceiling joists without chewing up the ceiling.
One of the comments was that the polarity would be reversed. Not sure that I see why this is the case. At the end where I am thinking of feeding the supply for the wall washers I would have a track connector with screw connections for 14/2. As long as I connect the wires properly I don't see why I would have reversed polarity. And if you look at track, by the way, what you usually see is a bare copper conducter set into an insulating channel. Off hand it looks like 14 gauge wire.
I'll let you know what the manufacturers say.
Carlos
Carlos
I stumbled across some more information (I opened my code book). It seems that track conductors need to be 12 AWG minimum or equal and copper. The tracks also need to be grounded.
The track I've worked with (and it hasn't been that much) had left and right hand ends, so you could only feed from one end. That is why I didn't think you could feed from one end and tap from the other.
I looked up halo lighting and found some track fitting for a similar application that you have. They are intended to install 1/2" conduit in the middle of a track run, therefor they have the left and right hand ends. See
http://www.cooperlighting.com/specfiles/productinfopdf/EADV0201.pdf
fitting labeled LZR205. You may also be able to use one of the center feed connectors to get something to work. It may have left and right hand feeds on it.
Some other possible solutions for your problem would be to
1) run wiremold next to you track light and use it to get your conductors to the other bay.
2) Install down lights (instead of track lights) every second or third bay and drill between.
3) Install crown molding and run your wire under it.
Good luck
Tim
How I have only worked with very little track lighting and that has been changes and repairs so I might be missing something here.And to make it clear we are taking about "general purpose, extenable" 120 volt track systems. That is one that has T's, 90's, X's, different lenght track, and different types of feed. Not short track with a power cord or the low voltage stuff with two wires for thge "track"."First the track would have to rated at 15 amps and be grounded, and rated for the application."I have never paid attention as I have never had to install a whole system, but does the manufacture put a limit on the loads on the track. Because there is nothing to prevent you from running track completely around a large room and fill it up with lights.I think that all of the track that I have run across (again limited) that they have been grounded."Second, if you could get the feed connection to fit on both ends of the track, the polarity would be reversed - i.e. black and white would be reversed where you tap off the track (I'd have to see the track to be sure)."I STRONGLY question this statement.I have never seen an approved light fixture or assembly where the socket is not polarized. That is the socket shell is connected to neutral and center tab to the hot.How would that work on a track if the which side of the track was hot depended on which end of the track was feed by power.NOTE - I am not supporting the use of the track as a "feeder".
Bill
After reading your response I decided to do a little research. First of all you're right, all track conductors need to be a minimum 12 AWG or equal and made from copper. They also need to be grounded. This is according to the 2002 nec.
Second, if you could get the feed connection to fit on both ends of the track, the polarity would be reversed - i.e. black and white would be reversed where you tap off the track (I'd have to see the track to be sure)."
I STRONGLY question this statement.
The last track I worked with had left and right hand ends so you could only feed from one end. If you were to modify another feed fitting and insert it in the wrong end of the track the polarity would be reversed. (i.e. if the neutral were on the left looking down from the feed end of the track it would be on the right looking down from the other end, and the second feed fitting would be looking for the neutral on the left. Therefor the polarity would be reversed taping off the track.) The fixtures that fit in the track will only fit in one way so the lamp holders will always be wired correctly. I hope this clears things up or I might be missing something.
Tim
OKI think that I get it now.If you want to feed from left to right instead of right to left you don't use a different connector, but rather flip the whole track around.It is still feeding the same end, just that the track is pointing the oposite direction.
haven't had a chance to check with manufacturer, but just as a point of clarification, the lightolier track allows you to either feed from an end with a track end fitting or from any point on the track using a floating canopy. The floating canopy would be used to energize the track the end end fitting would power the downlights. Even if there was a polairy problem, it has terminal screws on hte fitting for attaching 14/2
carlos
I think you're idea is a bad one, track is designed to be used only with track fixtures
......but since the feed ends are polarized, you wont' be able to do it anyway
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'Wer ist jetzt der Idiot?'