I posted this pic in another thread 55059.29 , but thought it might languish there. This is one example of a traditional italian kitchen where the the cabinet doors and drawer boxes are mounted on/in built-in boxes made of other materials. Could be plaster & masonary, concrete, whatever.
Have any of you seen this done, done it, or have ideas about how it could be replicated? Let me know if you’d like me to post more examples….
Molto Grazie!
Tips for picking the right paintbrush based on paint type, surface, and personal comfort.
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.
Start Free Trial NowGet instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.
Start Free Trial Now
Replies
You better try that again
Never mind
Edited 3/8/2005 4:45 pm ET by reinvent
That's a sharp looking kitchen, pegkip.
I'm not sure what your question is, though. Are you trying to build something like this? Are you trying to add to this kitchen? Are you trying to find ideas? Details? I guess I'm just a little confused what you're asking for.
Free the Sancho!
Buona sera,
What region is that supposed to be from? There's a lot of Italy I haven't visited but never seen anything remotely like that.
If you just wanna stick boxes for doors, drawers into some sculpture, no problem. Simply make one to match the other. What's with the knobs on what I guess is brick in the island?
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I dunno what's with those knobs on the brick...I hadn't noticed that. Maybe pegs to hang your strings of garlic? (they look like faux brick drawers -- yuck!)
I dunno what's with those knobs on the brick...I hadn't noticed that. Maybe pegs to hang your strings of garlic? (they look like faux brick drawers -- yuck!)
Well, it is a kitchen cabinet co. you're posting pix from, not old houses. Garlic and herbs belong on strings from the beams.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Touche...I was trying to be kind!
I like the look, and if you and VATOM wish it, I'd be happy to go scout out WHERE in Italia that construction style is utilized.
Just let me know and I'll tell ya where to send my plane tickets. I'm already packed, and hear the grappa calling me...
"The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it." - Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam
Drink enough grappa and they'll all look like that. Our friends are fond of ruining perfectly good espresso with that swill.
But if you can convince pegkip to sponsor your trip, pick up a bottle of Sardinian vernaccia for me please. Preferably di Oristano. The tuscan vernaccie pale in comparison.
They wouldn't miss you at work for a couple of months?PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Awww, man, you just missed the trip...We went again in January, right after epiphany!!
Here are a few more samples. I believe they are the traditional (antique) Italian country kitchens found in farmhouses and such. I know they are found in Tuscany and Umbria, but I don't think they are limited to the region.
View Image
View Image
View Image
View Image
View Image
Google "cucine tradizione," "cucine rustico" or "cucine toscana" if you want to do more looking. I prefer the wood look to the painted look. They often use chestnut or walnut, probably pine for the painted ones.
We are preparing to build our Texas-Tuscan in the Hill Country. And I'm considering replicating this look in our kitchen. So I'm trying to figure out how to replicate this...
I'm not too fond of all the ceramic tile, so maybe concrete surrounds (I've seen this done in a kitchen in CA and it looked quite nice) for the lowers and drywall alcoves for the uppers and wall mounted appliances?
The farmhouses I've been in in Italy and other places in Europe used real stuff...stone, lime plaster, brick, etc. But they were a couple hundred years old of course. I'm wondering what your thoughts are as to how something like this this could be replicated here and within a sane budget...
I don't know what you consider a "sane budget", but the cabinetry in those photos can certainly be built by any custom cabinet shop. The better you can define the look and floor plan you want, the more accurate the quotes will be.
You showed quite a range of individual pieces there. The style in all the photos was similar, but without further defining what you want, it's hard for anyone to give you even remotely accurate prices.
"Can it be done"? For sure. "Within a reasonable budget"? Depends on what you consider reasonable. Free the Sancho!
Tom,
I think that is exotic wavy grained wood in the pic.
-zen
Molto bene! That gives me some hope. I can certainly think some more about the details. But what about the gestault?
What might be the best way to build this built-in look? Looks like there are doors mounted directly to the walls rather than to wooden cabinet boxes? Unless you think threre must be boxes and they're just mounted IN the walls?
BTW, I just remembered I've seen kitchens like this in the Naples area, too (Pozzuoli), so it may be typical of a specific period, rather than a regional thing...thses homes have been built in the 1700's or even older.
So, I get it. We're going to ship a container of Italian windows and doors into Austin for this job, and now we're going to do the kitchen like as seen in the photos.
And, you're going to owner/build this project with the help of Texas U-Build-It.
I can only presume, from seeing all your posts, that you are heading into this clear-eyed, knowing that your costs will be at the highest end of what we call "custom."
Round here where I am, up in the icy cold northern Adirondacks, builders doing homes for owners with these kinds of intentions talk about "sell" numbers of $300 per square foot and up. I say "sell," because that includes their own overhead and profit. Throw in kitchens like yours, with a lot of Tuscan-look built-ins, bricked doorway arches, coffered beamed ceilings, "old world" tile roofs, plastered walls with "venetian" texture, plastered door returns, all the bells and whistles, and we can probably move up closer to $450.
But you're going to save something off these "sell" figures, right? Why else would you be trying to go the owner/builder route?
We here at Breaktime would probably all agree, that if both you and your partner have real day jobs, that you will probably go nuts trying to do this and get it right.
But hey, maybe that's just me.
I think you need a couple of really good people on board . . . an architect, and an interior designer. Unless of course you are one of the world's greatest homespun archie-designer yourself.
I also think that you will need the services, at build time, of one of our regular contributors here at Breaktime, or his clone, for the finish cabinetry and built-in woodwork. His screen name is Doug@es. I believe he is working and living in the Austin or hill country area.
I've seen this done in a couple of houses (we have a large and affluent Italian population in the GTA). For a main floor kitchen, the floor has to be specially built to hold the weight, or the masonary has to be appliquéd rather than solid. See them more often in a basement "party kitchen" or on a slab floor in an up-scale cottage.
Most appeared to be factory-built europeon-style cabinets (frameless boxes) set into pockets (like a built-in stove) - some local, some ordered from Italy. The appliquéd finish looks really good until you've seen the real thing.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Yeah, bummer, the real thing always looks...well....more real. That's neat that you've actually seen this done before.
When you say "appliquéd finish" do you mean something like venetian plaster over drywall?
What about using a concrete surround for the bases? How do you think that would work/look.
Wonder who (if anyone) distributes Italian cabinetry in the US? You guys to the north seem to have more options in terms of overseas suppliers...I've noticed that with the euro-style windows as well.
Appliquéd masonary means a thin shell applied to a surface rather than solid masonry (e.g. the thin bricks they apply to make a fireplace look like it's been made from brick). Like veneer. Venetian plaster looks really good, but so does stucco. I'd certainly go the appliqué route for the details and probably plywood structures with either a thick stucco or appliqué for the built-ins (use real brick for the end). Venetian plaster for walls..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
I live in a very, very, large urban/suburban area with a significant Italian population - that means there're are retailers who supply their needs, and competitively too.Personally, I think this should be a more rustic look and therefore should reflect local woods, which leads us to local suppliers in your area whole will put face frames and rustic, high-relief doors on euro-boxes and build them to accomodate "built-in" instalation (NB cabinets on leveling stilts would be better than those with down to the floor skirts.). Put one of those ceramic stand-alone fire places (the ones that look like a giant vase) in a corner and you're cooking - but if you want a fire-burning pizza oven, then you're into serious shipping and handling. As an aside, it's not that far away from what I recall seeing in a high-end adobe home in Tucson..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Thanks, Phil. All very helpful suggestions. So the veneer masonry looks a bit better now than the "ez brick" I remember from my youth? <g>
I saw some of the real deal pizza ovens in Italy in January. They make them as units now that you can just install...not too pricey, really. But the shipping might be stout since they are so heavy. Concrete, I think or something similar. We'll have our pizza oven in the outdoor kitchen wich we will install sometime after the main house is complete, so we could always pick one up on our next visit and have it shipped over.
Maybe a visit to Canada is in order...which city are you talking about?
Now about making use of local woods...cedar, mesquite, pine all too heavily grained. That'd be over the top rustic, like we've turned the barn into a kitchen. Pecan is another local wood but I'm not familar with the way that looks. Maybe Doug@es has some ideas here. I need to see if I can dig up that article that showed the house in CA that did something like this, but everything was streamlined rather than rustic. Still had a very unique look. The owner was Portuguese.
Don't get me wrong, when I see the need to call in a skilled tradesperson, I'll do so, but I'm not going into anything with my eyes wide shut. Before I move forward with anything I'm going to know what I want, what I don't want and why, what's reasonable and what's insane. And I'm sure the skilled trades have better ways to spend their time than to deal with someone who hasn't a clue of what they want.
GTA, Greater Toronto Area - couple of hundred thousand people of Italian descent. Montreal also has a large Italian heritage..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Ahhh, Toronto the Good (and oh so clean)! Love it. Went in June 2003 and stayed in the guest housing at Victoria U. Right across from the big museum and a T stop steps away. The dining hall at Victoria was a thing of real beauty. Thx!!
I'm not seeing anything outrageous in the construction of these.
They're simply custom cabinets with oversized face frames (stiles/rails) with a tertiary material (stone/tile) applied to the stiles and rails.
While the $$ is in the details, I just don't see a whole lot of outrageous $$ in these pictures.
I consider kitchens a la Smallbone to be fitted kitchens (furniture), with $$$ pricing to match.
The pictures you show, I see standard cabinet construction, albeit with tweaks in proportion that make them custom, and the stiles and rails, that make them custom.
Custom cabinetry, but $$ custom instead of $$$$ custom.
Bless you, Mongo. I agree there is a way to get this done without going off the deep end. Some things will be more pricey than the norm while others may be less expensive. Having an open mind and a positive, can-do outlook i.e., how can I make this happen...there must be a way, is always a great tool to keep in any toolbox.