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Discussion Forum

Trailer brakes

MRockwell | Posted in Tools for Home Building on January 11, 2009 03:08am

I could use a little insight, and figured y’all could help.  I’ve been having some issues when pulling my 14′ cargo trailer: when I let up on the brake pedal, the trailer brakes will grab.  Also when I have the turn signal on, the trailer brakes are “on”…even when I’m not on the brake pedal.  The light on the controller comes on when I push on the brakes, but it doesn’t seem like the trailer brakes activate(maybe they are weak).

My brake controller is a little over 8 years old, the trailer is same age.  I’m not sure if I should replace the brake controller, or tackle the trailer brakes?  Or could it be something to do with the truck?  I don’t use the trailer every day, thus why I just noticed the issue.

Thanks

 

Mitch

http://www.freewebs.com/glenndalepedalplane/
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Replies

  1. Catskinner | Jan 11, 2009 03:19am | #1

    What kind of truck?

    Is this a recent problem?

    Factory towing package or aftermarket install?

    1. MRockwell | Jan 11, 2009 04:37am | #6

      Catskinner,

      '99 Dodge, factory tow package.  The turn signal problem is recent, as of Dec. 30 when I noticed it.  I have noticed the trailer brakes grabbing at pedal let-off for a while, but never thought anything of it.  The brake controller is wired to a plug that connects under the dash.http://www.freewebs.com/glenndalepedalplane/

      1. Catskinner | Jan 11, 2009 05:23am | #10

        OK, this should be a pretty straightforward repair,if a little tedious. It's all DC low voltage, so being patient and methodical pays off.The way the brake controller works is this; connected to the brake controller there is a relatively high-current positive lead from somewhere in the system to the controller, a ground, a relatively high-current lead from the controller to the trailer (this is the blue wire), and a wire that connects from your brake light wiring (from the brake pedal) to the controller.It's pretty much just a sophisticated and adjustable relay.So check it like this;1) With the trailer completely disconnected from the truck, make sure that all of your brake lights and turn signals (on the truck) work properly. Especially make sure your turn signals work with the brakes applied.2) The blue wire in your trailer harness powers your brakes to the trailer. Connect a test light (grounded to the truck)to the pin for the blue wire (on the truck side), have a helper actuate the trailer brake controller with the hand switch and by stepping on the truck service brake, see if the test light comes on.3) With the trailer disconnected,using a 12VDC source grounded to the trailer, momentarily energize the blue wire on the trailer. You should hear the brake magnets clicking.4) Now connect the trailer, hook up the wiring. Check all of the lights on the trailer, see if they work right. Pay special attention to the turn signals and brake lights. If they are not working right, take the lenses off and see if the bulbs have rotated in their holders. This happens with the new/cheap style 1157 bulb holders and causes weird problems.If everything looks good, start checking for loose connections and damaged wiring or corrosion.;edit 1) for clarity]

        Edited 1/10/2009 10:53 pm by Catskinner

        1. BoJangles | Jan 11, 2009 08:02am | #12

          Lots of good advice there.  I had weird problems on one of my equipment trailers because a red squirrel got inside the tongue and chewed the insulation off all of the wires.

          Another time, I borrowed a trailer from a friend and had the same kinds of problems. I found out the wires were badly chaffed where they passed through frame holes that were burned in with a torch at the factory and not grommited.

          I always run homerun grounds to every light etc. when trailer wiring.

          BTW,  I remember you talking about skid steers and saying there is CAT and then there are the others.  After trying about every kind, I completely agree with you. No competition in engineering and quality as far as I can see. 

           

          1. Catskinner | Jan 11, 2009 06:32pm | #13

            <<Lots of good advice there. I had weird problems on one of my equipment trailers because a red squirrel got inside the tongue and chewed the insulation off all of the wires.Another time, I borrowed a trailer from a friend and had the same kinds of problems. I found out the wires were badly chaffed where they passed through frame holes that were burned in with a torch at the factory and not grommited.>>Amazing, isn't it? <G> For as simple as DC-LV wiring should be, it can be maddening if you don't go one logical step at a time, for all the reasons you describe.<<I always run homerun grounds to every light etc. when trailer wiring.>>I bet that saves a lot of trouble in the long run.<<BTW, I remember you talking about skid steers and saying there is CAT and then there are the others. After trying about every kind, I completely agree with you. No competition in engineering and quality as far as I can see. >>That's been my experience. Some of the things we make our 262B do seems ridiculous, some very big jobs for a very small machine, and it does the job when nothing else would work. We have run the stuffing out of that machine and it still makes money.

            Edited 1/11/2009 10:33 am by Catskinner

          2. BoJangles | Jan 11, 2009 07:03pm | #15

            Some of the things we make our 262B do seems ridiculous, some very big jobs for a very small machine, and it does the job when nothing else would work.

            I just bought a 257B.   Now I need a few accessories!

          3. Catskinner | Jan 11, 2009 08:17pm | #17

            Please let us know what you buy for attachments and how you like them.So far I have bought (and sold) a rock bucket, a hydraulic demolition grapple, pallet forks, and rented an auger and a post-driver.These things are like the big Swiss Army Knife of the construction site.

  2. BoJangles | Jan 11, 2009 03:23am | #2

    The first thing I would do is take the wheels off and pull the drums and see what condition your brakes are in. 

    If they have been doing that, they may be fried by now. 

    If I just read the other part of your message, I would think they were wired wrong.

     

  3. Nails | Jan 11, 2009 03:55am | #3

    MR A wise man told me if was working before and it's not now check the ground.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    1. junkhound | Jan 11, 2009 04:15am | #4

      wise man told me if was working before and it's not now check the ground

      great advise, loose or open ground a classic symptom if the turn signal is activating the brakes, and esp. if the brakes on only partly on and not fully locked (the turn signal lamps limit the current).

       

    2. Catskinner | Jan 11, 2009 04:20am | #5

      <<A wise man told me if was working before and it's not now check the ground.>>Definitely the place to begin the diagnostic process. Depending upon the year of the truck and the configuration of the controller there could be a whole bunch of grounds to check.

    3. MRockwell | Jan 11, 2009 04:43am | #7

      Nails,

      So basically what you're saying, is that this isn't gonna be an easy fix. 

      As soon as I'm done with this next project, and the weather cooperates, I'll look at the brakes on the trailer.

      All,   As far as brake controllers are concerned, is there any one better than another?http://www.freewebs.com/glenndalepedalplane/

      1. User avater
        PeterJ | Jan 11, 2009 05:18am | #8

        Tekonsha Prodigy and Valley Odyssey are the gold standards. Around $100. Both are "smart" proportional controllers.

        I'm thinking you might have two separate problems. As others pointed out, oddball behavior is more often than not intermittant or faulty ground, often at the trailer connector. The brakes grabbing on let off  sounds more like a mechanical problem. Electric brakes are pretty straight forward to repair. 

        Everything will be okay in the end.  If it's not okay, it's not the end. 

  4. DanH | Jan 11, 2009 05:22am | #9

    I'd agree -- check the ground connections. Typically the ground from the brake/light connections is tied to the trailer frame near the hitch, with no wire running to the lights and brakes. Also typically the wire breaks off, leaving you with only the sometimes ground through the hitch. Or the connection to the frame just comes loose.

    God is REAL, unless explicitly declared INTEGER
  5. Sojourner | Jan 11, 2009 05:58am | #11

    As for the brakes grabbing on pedal release, I have the same thing happen when I have my brake controller set too high. (Set for load when I it's unloaded, etc.)

    Maybe a voltage issue, but a very good point by a previous responder to check the physical condition of the brakes as well after this.

    Good luck -- trailer electrical problems can be very frustrating.

    soj
    (sledgehammers don't work but I feel better. ;^))

  6. JeffinPA | Jan 11, 2009 06:54pm | #14

    Something is not wired right.

    There is a short in the system or frayed wiring or a bad ground if the truck and trailer have not changed.

    I'd go after the bad ground first.  Strange electrical behavior is often a grounding issue.

    Check the ground connection between the truck and the trailer.  (the wire from the truck likely goes to the trailer frame somewhere and that is the 1st place I'd visually inspect after testing and finding that the trailer is not grounded.

  7. john7g | Jan 11, 2009 07:52pm | #16

    When you start chasing the grounds not only check the integrity of the wire but look for corrosion between the ground wire/terminal and the frame (or wahtever it's grounded to).  Also take a very close look at studs that have mulitiple ground wires attached.  I'd create separate gound points for each wire if you do find them stacked at one location. 

    1. User avater
      Luka | Jan 11, 2009 10:38pm | #18

      No need to make separate ground points. That just creates more points you have to maintian.Take all the wires off that one point. Use emery cloth on each wire until you are back to shiny metal.Sand down the ground point itself until shiny.Now coat that ground point with silicone dielectric grease. Then, coat each ground wire, as well, with the SDG, as you stack each one back on.Dab on some more SDG, then an extra washer, when done, and then the nut. And if the final nut is not a nylock, replace it with one.And don't be stingy with the SDG.If done correctly, that point should last the lifetime of the trailer.

      1. john7g | Jan 11, 2009 11:26pm | #19

        No.

        if the ground stud is not 100% perfect the ganged grounds can cause electrons to seek an easier ground through another device grounded at the same point.  Even if it does look perfect it can still be a source of trouble coming just from the order the wires are stacked on the ground.  I saw it enough times on aircraft systems (12v & 24v) that I take the same policy on everything electrical on cars & related.  Maybe not make a sep point for everything but at least break them up to more locations. 

        1. User avater
          deadmanmike | Jan 11, 2009 11:36pm | #20

          Ditto. Seperate grounds eliminates backfeeding if one goes south.

          I'm on board with everything else Luka said about the SDG and cleaning.

          I'd also add to look for corrosion/looseness between the eyelet terminals and wiring itself.

        2. User avater
          Luka | Jan 12, 2009 12:30am | #21

          I stand corrected.My method has always worked for me. But that doesn't mean it is the best.Maybe it has always worked for me because the first thing I do, is to make sure the ground stud itself is impeccable.I guess I figured that to be a given... Probably a bad assumption.

          1. john7g | Jan 12, 2009 01:25am | #22

            no big deal.  even a 'perfect' ground stud will have at least a little resitance and then if something else has a lower sytsem reisistance and the electrons are on a different path.

          2. MRockwell | Jan 12, 2009 06:58am | #23

            Thanks everyone for the help.  I'll take a look at the grounding on the truck and trailer, but not till it warms up a bit(gonna get downright cold this week).  After getting some freezing rain on Friday night and Saturday, and looking at pulling the trailer home from a jobsite Sat. afternoon, I figured it's high time to get this issue resolved. 

            Once again, thanks all.

             

            Mitchhttp://www.freewebs.com/glenndalepedalplane/

          3. Catskinner | Jan 12, 2009 07:07am | #24

            Yer welcome.Make sure and let us know what you find, it's always educational.

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