I’ve posted this question before (with no results) but maybe someone new has an idea:
I’ve got a 30″ x 30″ trap door cut into a hardwood floor for crawlspace access. This door is very heavy and awkward, but we need to get into the crawlspace fairly often. Anyone know of a heavy-duty hinge/lid support that would mount under the trap door so that it would lift easily up and away? I can’t have any exposed hinge on the surface.
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Replies
Soss makes fully-concealed hinges. (http://www.soss.com/) They have models big enough to handle house doors. I'd imagine a couple of those would handle your trap door.
Soss is an excellent choice. It allows the trap door to "fold" back so it rests on the floor when open. But I don't know if the hinges can take the load in that direction. That does not mean they can't but that I don't know. Gotta think about this one. hhmmm.
For a more low tech solution, you can install a full width + 2" each side, dowel/ steel rod under the door about 3" from the hinge side edge which will act as a full width pivot. It would be inserted into each side of the "jamb". This way when the door opened, it would rest on the floor edge at a 30 degree angle. A lot easier to install and super cheap.
Either way you will have to have stong stops under the door.
Hah! Nice! No special-order parts, and probably less expensive than big Soss hinges.
One detail... There can't be a conventional door stop on the axle side. Maybe that's good -- you'd see if you left the basement light on -- but maybe it's bad -- creepy-crawlies coming up out of the basement. One solution would be to put a flange on the door that overlaps under (underlaps?) the door frame to close this gap. There still has to be some gap near the axle, but most of it would be covered.
BTW, on the Soss approach, I agree they're not designed to be stressed this way. However, the biggest ones are honkers, designed to hold doors up to 500 pounds. I'm guessing they'd do just fine here. Regardless, the axle approach is likely to be less expensive.
Jamie
I'm a little confused. Are you looking for a hinge to open the door to 90 degrees (or more) from the floor so you have ease of access or are you looking for something to assist you in opening the heavy door? If it is the latter, as was my original thought, can you install some gas shock lifters such as in an auto to help lift the weight? Don't know how far open the door would go with one of these on.
You might look up the McMaster Carr catalogue: http://www.mcmaster.com/ for your gas assist lifters. I seem to remember looking for something similar a while back. Didn't end up using the assists, but I'm thinking there's something there that might work. Best of luck.
If you want to try some thinking on levers/pullies, you could probably come up with a counter weighted thing to go with the axle idea. When up at 90 deg., the weight arm would be straight down in the basement. You'd need swing clearance from under the floor to straight down next to the stairway. I sat and watched a counter weighted draw bridge work down in the flats to let a freighter pass. An old partner and I had a counter weighted pull down stair in our shop, all you gotta do is have the room and play with the weight.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Calvin --
Yeah, I like the counterweight idea. I've designed furniture with gas struts. They're compact, have nice "action", and aren't horribly ugly. But they are a pain in the design stage. It is difficult to translate from the spec sheets to the furniture. It is difficult to decide which one you need and where to mount it. And they're not easy to acquire. All in all, the counterweight approach would be easier.
Jamie
Well, we'll have to see what's decided and what works. This would be a good place for the original author to come back and show us what works or not. This is the kind of job that might happen once in all your carpentry, a hint would help.
I'd just like to tell you as an aside, that tonight was the real nice culmination to a godawful week. I'm one happy guy. You have a good weekend yourself.__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I did similar install on a hardwood floor using Soss hinges a few months back. The 1 1/2 " hinges have more than enough strength for the job. Check the soss site for specs. I also need to design something to help the aging lady who owns the house lift the trap. The main problem I have is that most hinge /spring system are designed to close doors not open them. The door weighs 80-100 pounds, I alsodon't want to limit access along the length of the door as there will be stairs descending in that direction. I haven't worked it out yet but I'll let you know.
BTW I framed the door into an old maple floor, I used the original flooring as the door face, cased it and the opening in 1X3 maple planks, after the floor got refinished looked like it had always been there. I used a nice ($$) Baldwin brass pull ring but the ring was a nice touch as all the other pulls are really cheap looking around here.
Thank you all for taking a crack at my problem. To clarify: the door is cut into an existing floor and fits very tightly and flush to the floor. It is 1 1/2" thick, (subfloor plus hardwood floor) and 30" x 30" so it is damned heavy and awkward. It sits on a 2x6 frame underneath, so there is a 1 1/2" overlay all around. Yes it needs both a hinge to pivot on and some kind of assistance in opening and closing. Sounds like PATRICKOFM has a very similar situation.
Sounds like the Soss hinges could work if I can figure out how to put them into the edge of the existing floor. (the trap door opening is not framed by the floor, which would have been a good idea. Sounds like you know what you're doing PATRICKOFM). Maybe I could cut the flooring out around the door and frame it with the hinges in. The steel bar solution would not work because the trap door can't tilt down on its back edge because of the overlay and the tight fit.
What I had imagined (but have not found anywhere) was an under-floor spring loaded lid support that would lift the door up and away, kind of like an old-fashioned tilting garage door. Euro cabinet hinges do exactly that except they are designed for 3/4" overlay and aren't beefy enough. I even looked at some garage door hinges but they were too huge.
Thanks again, and please post if you have anymore brainstorms. You've already given me one workable solution, where I had nada before.
Yeah, here's another. Roof hatches have a "gotta pull it down and latch it" spring loaded apparatus. Find a roof hatch or a site and see if the specs can lead you anywhere. It would at least get the door started in an upward motion, assisting maybe as you lift it up to fully open.__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Trap Door - How did you end up fixing your issue?
Wondering what you decided to implement on your trap door issue. I think I have a similar issue, but I really want a hinge that 1) prevents fingers from getting smashed by slowing the closing of the door and 2) doesn't make the door too heavy to lift. I've attached a couple images of what I'm working with. Appreciate your thoughts.
Trap Door in Wood Floor - Hinge
I have a similar trap door in my wood floor. Have tried several options including stabilus piston lifts. The main issue I'm trying to solve is the potential of fingers getting caught between the door and the floor while closing. This lid is pretty heavy. I'm trying to figure out how to do cool counter balance system, but not sure I have enough room. I would really like some hardware that enables a smooth and slow opening and closing to 90 degrees. I've attached some images of the trap door. Appreciate any ideas out there. Maybe the hardcore Soss hinges would work, but I also want the door to be easy to open and I'm concerned the Soss's might cause the door to be even harder to open.
So you tried gas lifts?
trap door hinge
Hi -
Did you ever get a good solution to your trap door problem? I have exactly that same setting with a trap door installed into the hardwood floor but pretty soon it'll be too heavy for my husband to lift. I've seen a pic. of a scissor-like mechanism that raises the door straight up but not sure what it's called or if it lifts far enough to gain access to the crawl space.
Pls let me know your solution.
Thanks,
Kathy