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What’s the best way to attach trim moulding (crown, chair rail, and baseboard) to walls with steel studs? I can think of cross nailing, glue, and trim screws. How about into the stud itself? Any ideas?
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Pick
In the UK we use alot of metal stud.
We put timber battens in the studs each side of the door openings to give a good background to fix the door liner and the architrave to I guess you call that trim? We use dry wall screws and/or construction addhesive for just about every thing else.
We have only just started to use metal stud in domestic houseing, and the last job I did they laid timber floor plates for all the internal non load bearring walls (I guess that was so that they could get a few good fixings for the base board) befor putting up the metal partition walls. The carpenter who fixed all the trim and basebord on that job was useing a Paslode trim pulse for fixing into the studs and it worked fine. (Which is why I now want to buy one myself)
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Reply to Martin M.
For the steel stud application I used a spiral, grooved and hardened nail with the gun for the siding and the roof decking through 14 and 16 gauge steel and it worked very well. What kind of nail did the carpenter use for trim with the Paslode gun?
Thanks, Pick
*We use a paslode 16ga. gun and whatever nail we need to get a good bite on the steel stud. That and a dab of construction adhesive every so often and you are good to go. We've tried to yank trim off, and you can, but not any easier after the gooo dries than anything else. I thought they were going to make plastic nails for the paslode that heat up and melt into the stud, while they pierce it, but I have yet to see them. KC
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I have used gun finish nails and adhesive with no problem. Or, you can use finish screws. A word of caution...Don't use MDF moldings with screws. The material is so hard that the screw will strip the metal before the head sets, so you have to precountersink them all. If you are using screws use soft wood trim.
*I agree with both KC O'neill on the 16 g nail and if you fire two to four a V you want pull if off works on MDF too.I also agree with Mike Mahan about screwing MDF on metal studs drilling and couter sinking takes to much time far eaiser just to fire it on.
*I have seen trim screws for metal studs t my lumber supplier. They look like a drywall screw with a very little head. not sure what type of drive they take. I imagine they would work alright if you can do a good deal of hole filling afterwards and maybe some predrilling beforehand.Pete Draganic
*Those little screws are a bitch in any kind of hard lumber. You need a brand new #1 Phillips.
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Try getting some of those trim screws with a number one square drive and a self tapping head. There are a number of sources for them and I have found them to be the best thing since sliced bread. They will work for trim on steel studs and also have a million uses for conventional trim. They are indispensible for handrail to post connections (especially in a post to post system and are great for making your own gooseneck fittings. In harder woods such as oak and maple it helps to either soap or wax up the screw before driving it and this practice is essential for hickory or ash. Just use a 3/32 or 1/8 inch bit to predrill holes about 3/4 of the length of the screw. No countersinking is necessary even on hard woods as the heads on these little buggers are about the size of a twelve penny finish nail.
With the square drive stripping is not a problem as you will snap the screw first. Try some and you will wonder how you ever got along without 'em.
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Mark
who makes those trim screws with the square drive.
I use to use alot of square drive scres myself but my mail order supplier has stoped doing them and mine came with no brand on the box.
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Like Pete Draganic, I have used trim screws and I've cross-nailed, but I have come up with an alternative method that works for me.
I install a half-inch strip of CDX plywood at the bottom (and/or top of the stud wall in the case of crown molding) of the stud wall. The plywood is set about a quarter-inch below the proposed height of the trim/base. I screw the plywood directly to the studs using drywall screws. The joints of the plywood strips are overlapped using a 22-1/2 degree cut.
Using the plywood allows me to have good nailing almost anywhere I need it.
There are, however, two problems with this system. First, you have to strip the plywood and install it. This means time and added express. Second, they drywallers, at least in residential jobs, hate you because they have to cut their bottom boards. Since the walls are over 8' in most commercial jobs, and the drywallers have to cut a "belly band" (if installing the drywall horizontally), you might save them some work, but probably not.
The joint between the drywall and plywood does not need to be taped, since your trim will overlap the joint, and the plywood allows you to pull the trim tight to the drywall with your regular trim nails.
*Like Pete Draganic, I have used trim screws and I've cross-nailed, but I have come up with an alternative method that works for me.I install a half-inch strip of CDX plywood at the bottom (and/or top of the stud wall in the case of crown molding) of the stud wall. The plywood is set about a quarter-inch below the proposed height of the trim/base. I screw the plywood directly to the studs using drywall screws. The joints of the plywood strips are overlapped using a 22-1/2 degree cut. Using the plywood allows me to have good nailing almost anywhere I need it.There are, however, two problems with this system. First, you have to strip the plywood and install it. This means time and added expense. Second, they drywallers, at least in residential jobs, hate you because they have to cut their bottom boards. Since the walls are over 8' in most commercial jobs, and the drywallers have to cut a "belly band" (if installing the drywall horizontally), you might save them some work, but probably not.The joint between the drywall and plywood does not need to be taped, since your trim will overlap the joint, and the plywood allows you to pull the trim tight to the drywall with your regular trim nails.
*Like Pete Draganic, I have used trim screws and I've cross-nailed, but I have come up with an alternative method that works for me.I install a half-inch strip of CDX plywood at the bottom (and/or top of the stud wall in the case of crown molding) of the stud wall. The plywood is set about a quarter-inch below the proposed height of the trim/base. I screw the plywood directly to the studs using drywall screws. The joints of the plywood strips are overlapped using a 22-1/2 degree cut. Using the plywood allows me to have good nailing almost anywhere I need it.There are, however, two problems with this system. First, you have to strip the plywood and install it. This means time and added expense. Second, the drywallers, at least in residential jobs, hate you because they have to cut their bottom boards. Since the walls are over 8' in most commercial jobs, and the drywallers have to cut a "belly band" (if installing the drywall horizontally), you might save them some work, but probably not.The joint between the drywall and plywood does not need to be taped, since your trim will overlap the joint, and the plywood allows you to pull the trim tight to the drywall with your regular trim nails.
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I have doen it all ways, but never this way. How about gluing OSB backers to the steel studs where the trim is needed. I know, I don't like backers on the whole as I think for my dollar level of work they take too much time. But, All you really want is something to pull against. I have used both kinds of screws also, and the square heads are the only way to go. The Adhesives are becoming pretty terrific and it is hard to get used to not nailing or screwing everything.
Dennis - hammering with a virtual hammer.
*Inquiring minds want to know. What do you guys do with the 1/8" difference between steel and wood when it comes to putting doors in these walls? Custom jams, done that myself just lately, or reduce the wallboard?Dennis
*In commercial work, because of the volume of steel stud work that is done, we have developed a few twist to your standard installation of base.A 3/8 plywood strip is screwed over the drywall. The height is 3/4" less than the base. The base itself is either shaped to act as a saddle over the plywood or is in two parts. The first being a flat stock and the second a quarter round to cap the top.Basically the same system is used for crown mouldings, a strip of wood (45 degree cant strip)is installed first and then the moulding.By using this system, there is no interference between trades.
*Hi Dennis,It's easier to put the door casing through the table saw when you only have to adjust 1/8" + -.When you have the jamb sticking out 1/8, you rip 1/8 off the backside of the inside edge (set the depth of your blade to 1"). When you have the Jamb recessed in 1/8, you rip 1/8 off the backside of the outside edge of the casing (set the depth of the blade to 3/4 of the height of the case).Hope I didn't confuse.
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I don't know all the applications that you all work on, but I had a 120 room Comfort Inn a few years back, when I started to put plywood backers in for marble sink tops I got blasted by the inspector, it seems that I needed to use the fire rated pink plywood inside walls. Just a thought. KC
*MARTIN REGARDING A SOURCE FOR THE NO.1 SQUARE DRIVE TRIM SCREWS, AND JUST ABOUT ANY OTHER KIND OF FASTENER YOU COULD WANT HERE IS THE SCOOP.S & G SPECIALTY FASTENERS, INC.33372 CROATION WAYUNION CITY CA 94587 PH 800-743-6916WWW.QUICKSCREWS.COMTHEY SHOULD HAVE WHAT YOU'RE LOOKIN FOR.
*Yo, Trim man, you only need to punch that "Post" button once.
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What's the best way to attach trim moulding (crown, chair rail, and baseboard) to walls with steel studs? I can think of cross nailing, glue, and trim screws. How about into the stud itself? Any ideas?