FHB Logo Facebook LinkedIn Email Pinterest Twitter X Instagram Tiktok YouTube Plus Icon Close Icon Navigation Search Icon Navigation Search Icon Arrow Down Icon Video Guide Icon Article Guide Icon Modal Close Icon Guide Search Icon Skip to content
Subscribe
Log In
  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Restoration
  • Videos
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House
  • Podcast
Log In

Discussion Forum

Discussion Forum

Trim pricing, bid or hourly

djj | Posted in General Discussion on December 17, 2004 08:08am

The trim guy I had lined up for my new construction broke his leg very badly and is going to be out 10-12 weeks. Talked to a different trim guy yesterday about doing the job. The work on his current job looks very good and he does work for a number of the high end builders in town He doesn’t do bids though and he strictly works hourly. $40 per hour for him and one other guy. He doesn’t even like to give estimates as to how long a job will take because he says most builders keep coming up with more stuff for him to to as they go along.

If this guy works fast, hourly could be a good deal, if he is slow it could cost a bundle. So I was hoping some of the trimmers here could give me a SWAG of how long this might take and if the hourly is a workable deal.

Here is a high level of the work we will need. All trim and doors are paintgrade.

Base  5.25″ 1 piece – 800 ln ft

Window and door casing 3.25″ 1 piece – 1000 ft

Hang 20 interior prehung doors

Crown 7″ 80 ft and 5″ 320 lnt ft

Set/hang 27 ft of wall cabinets, and 30 feet of floor cabs and vanities

Set a premade fireplace mantle.

Thanks for any help.

Regards,

Dennis


Edited 12/17/2004 12:08 pm ET by DJJ

Reply
  • X
  • facebook
  • linkedin
  • pinterest
  • email
  • add to favorites Log in or Sign up to save your favorite articles

Replies

  1. User avater
    jonblakemore | Dec 17, 2004 08:43pm | #1

    I have no idea how long this guy will take to do your job. I suspect that no one else does.

    That being said I wonder if this "sub" has insurance, necessary license, pays taxes, etc. If he wants $40/hr. for two workers then I would guess the answer to the questions is "no".

    So let's assume that he is running an illegitimate business, who get stuck with the bill if he gets hurt/ walks off the job/ burns the house down/ or some other mishap? I'm thinking you.

    >>>"He doesn't even like to give estimates as to how long a job will take because he says most builders keep coming up with more stuff for him to to as they go along."

    This tells me he doesn't know how to estimate and cannot process a change order.

    >>>"If this guy works fast, hourly could be a good deal, if he is slow it could cost a bundle."

    I would venture a guess that his method slants in HIS favor, not yours. Usually those who are efficient at their work prefer fixed prices because they can increase their earnings.

    I really don't care what you do, but if I wanted a dependable sub and the ability to control my costs, I would look elsewhere.

     

    Jon Blakemore

    1. djj | Dec 18, 2004 12:04am | #5

      Jon,

      Thanks for your reply. I appreciate it. I wasn't trying to figure out how long it would take him to do it but rather what an average trim carpenter and helper might take to do the job.  This makes it easier to get a very rough ballpark for cost compared to what I had budgeted ($8500) based on my original trim guys bid for the job.

      I stopped and talked to him some more today as well the GC he is currently working for. I asked him about WC, and insurance and he has both and said he would provide me with copies of all the info if we decide to work together. The GC had nothing but great things to say about him and already has him lined up for the 7000 sq foot job he is framing now and the 4000 sq footer they are going to do after that. So I think he is on the up and up even if he doesn't charge enough (even for Iowa).

      Regards,

      Dennis

       

      1. xMikeSmith | Dec 18, 2004 12:43am | #7

        dennis.. sign him up and when you're done, send him to me..

        you've seen his work..

        you've talked to people he works for..

         his got hiw ins. certificates ...

        damn... what's not to like ?Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

        1. calvin | Dec 18, 2004 01:23am | #8

          Heck Mike, that's me.  (thought I'd beat buck to the punch)

          If I quit my current boss, you looking for help?

          thanks.

          Sorry, don't have a helper, I'd have to come alone.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

          Quittin' Time

          1. xMikeSmith | Dec 18, 2004 01:35am | #9

            yeah.. and you'd want the whole $40 for yourself...

            c'mon downMike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

          2. calvin | Dec 18, 2004 01:59am | #10

            plus 10.

            thanks.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

            Quittin' Time

      2. Snort | Dec 18, 2004 03:09am | #15

        I am a trim sub-contractor. It sounds like your guy knows what he needs to make, and his market. I hire guys like him, and have been very happy...and tell him Road Ideland's way too cold, he should come to sunny North Carolina<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!

        1. xMikeSmith | Dec 18, 2004 08:27pm | #33

          snort... tell me again ....where in NC ?

          you can email me if you don't want to post it...

          mfsmith1   AT  cox.netMike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

          1. Snort | Dec 19, 2004 09:31pm | #40

            And, this after you've been pulled how many times by the profile police?<G>Cleek my name...;-) Don't worry, we can fix that later!

  2. tradesman | Dec 17, 2004 08:56pm | #2

    Looks to me that you prequalified the guy already. Assuming the tradesman has good references $ 40.00/hour for 2 people is a steal. If he is not insured I would buy the insurance for him. You pay him every Friday so you got your value you pay for and you can calculate the overall volume yourself. Seems to me the guy has some experience and not bidding the job could mean he knows what he is doing. If he works for high end builders he most likely is insured. Here in Boulder you would pay $45.00-$55.00 per hour, per person.

  3. AXE | Dec 17, 2004 09:28pm | #3

    I second the motion that this rate is a steal.  I have mr. perfection doing my siding and boxing and he is $35 for him + $30 for each man (usually just him and another).  He too wouldn't bid the job, just T&M (really just T since I'm providing M).  If this guy is truly good, I would hire him and not even worry about it.  It's going to cost what it's going to cost and the work will be nice, just enjoy it and find someway to pay the guy.

     

    MERC.

  4. DanH | Dec 17, 2004 11:34pm | #4

    Make sure you clearly understand whether he's saying $40/hour for two people ($20/person-hour), or $40/hour/person ($80 for each hour worked by the pair).

  5. User avater
    MrSQL | Dec 18, 2004 12:38am | #6

    I've heard this one before (i.e. the builders keep coming up with more work than originally contratect for, therefore, I can't bid  yoru job) ...  The guy should be able to bid the job you are asking him to do.  If he can't then find someone who can.  As for me, I would likely not hire hourly unless I was real sure that the guy was ultra trustworthy.

    Regards,

    Roger <>< (owner/builder in NC)

    1. DougU | Dec 18, 2004 02:14am | #11

      I think discounting someone because they wont bid a job(only work time and material) would keep you from getting some of the best workers out there.

      I'm from Iowa and probably one of the best builders in the Cedar Rapids area does not, will not, give a bid, wont give an estimate to how long it will take either. 

      He is busy, doesn't have to go looking for work, and everything he does is top notch. He is very much in demand.

      I've been in some of his  4 to 5 million dollar homes, there nothing short of spectacular. He didn't give a bid on any part of them. And the owners are very pleased with his work and him.

      Doug

      1. bruceb | Dec 18, 2004 02:57am | #13

        I've been in some of his  4 to 5 million dollar homes, there nothing short of spectacular. He didn't give a bid on any part of them. And the owners are very pleased with his work and him.

         

         My only question along that line would be " how was financing secured without some hard numbers to use?"

        1. DougU | Dec 18, 2004 03:09am | #14

          Guess I don't do the financing, and neither do you!

          I'll stand behind what I'm saying. Maybe when you got 40 or 50 mil you don't have to go through the same channels as some.

          Doug

          1. bruceb | Dec 18, 2004 03:14am | #17

            I don't doubt what your saying. I know several builders who make the same claim. I'm just curious about how the financing is secured with no rough Idea of cost.

          2. DougU | Dec 18, 2004 03:50am | #18

            Robert

            I really don't know the answer to that, they don't invite me to many of those meetings. :)

            I just know that this guy has a reputation that cant be beat. His word is better than any contract, people love him.

            Doug

          3. bruceb | Dec 18, 2004 05:16am | #23

            Yeah,

                         Sometime ago I did a fair amount of work for a builder like that. everything ended up costing more than the customer thought and I've always wondered how he got a reputation that let him get away with that.

          4. tradesman | Dec 18, 2004 04:09am | #19

            The financing can be secured in different ways depending on the money down. The sqft price upon completion and the pre-appraisal has to be within a local range and neighborhood. If they are way off with their pricing they will need more money down or other values to secure the financing. I had several customers who did their own financing.....they had the money, as simple as that.

             

          5. User avater
            EricPaulson | Dec 18, 2004 04:24am | #20

            Someone tell me how this guy has any $ left after insurance??

            FWIW DJJ, I spec'd your job at 8.5k off the top of my head, around 15 days. Labor only.

            EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,

            With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.

          6. DougU | Dec 18, 2004 04:50am | #21

            Eric

            I imagine that the insurance in Ia. is considerably lower than that of NY.

            When I was a sub in Ia. I paid about $500 a year for a mill in liability.

            Doug

          7. jeffwoodwork | Dec 18, 2004 05:38am | #27

            Dennis:  I usually bid a house by the square foot, extras are things like ceiling crown, built- in cabinets, highly detailed closets.  There are lots of variables some trim takes longer because of the size 5" base is harder to do than 2 1/4" ect. 

            I work alone it takes me about 100 to 120 hours to trim out a 3000-3500 square foot house plus install cabs.  That number can vary greatly with the amount of detail in the cabs and trim.  So it is hard to lump it into a general catagory.  From the info you gave I would say a trim bill of $4500- 6500 would not be out of line, but it is hard to really say going on that info. 

            Just don't tell the guy you have a budget of $8500, or you will get the " Oh yea I think it will be close but I should be able to do it for that".

             

            Ok some posts happened while I was typing, I must not be charging enough?

            2500sqft that is small for the houses I have been doing, no offense.  So 3 weeks sounds very doable even with one guy.  I can fly out for $300, I'll do it fo $7K seeing how I'm between jobs.  Going to be tough packing all my tools though.  Well good luck, hope it all works out. Jeff

            Edited 12/17/2004 9:54 pm ET by JEFFWOODWORK

          8. Mooney | Dec 18, 2004 05:20am | #24

             I'm just curious about how the financing is secured with no rough Idea of cost.

            Well , thats my problem, unless it doesnt matter.

            I bet the builders he works for know . Ill bet its cheaper is why they do it . I know builders and they like it going their way on the balance pole.

            Tim Mooney

    2. DanH | Dec 18, 2004 02:49am | #12

      Seems to me that someone might not want to bid because they aren't very good at estimating. Another ADHD trait.

  6. bruceb | Dec 18, 2004 03:11am | #16

    DJJ,

             For a long time I worked with and for people who never gave an estimate. We did a certain quality of work, builders and GC's knew our pace, and they got what they wanted.

    That being said I must offer this caution. From the size of your trim package it does not appera as if you are building a huge house. Nice size but not huge. How do the houses he's doing now compare with the one your building? The reason I ask? It is much easier to discount spending $3000 more than you thought you would on a $ 2,000,000 house than it is on a $400,000 house. $3K is a bigger percentage of $400K than it is of $2M.

    as for how long? In my prime when I was trimming everyday I used to work with a partner. Excluding the cabinets we would do that package in four days if we screwed around during those four days. just two of us.

     $1 a ft for the baseboard

     $45 a door hung and cased

     $35 a window Stool apron and casing.

     $2 ft for the big crown

     $1.25 for the small stuff.

     unless you stop by and check the progress this guy is making or he is willing to give you an " It won't take any longer than X" type estimate I would be reluctant.

    1. djj | Dec 18, 2004 05:00am | #22

      Robert,

      Thanks for the reply. The house I am doing about 2500 square feet. 2000 main floor and 500 ft bonus room over the garage. The job the trimmer is working on now is about 2500 sq ft, and will probably sell for about $325-350k. Mine should be about $325k.

      Looks like you are faster (and cheaper) then the guys here. Want to come to balmy Iowa in about 6 weeks :) My first bid from the trimmer who broke his leg was about $7200 and he thought it would take about 3 weeks to do. Not sure if this was by himself or not. The 'by the hour' guy said today a very rough guess was 3 weeks. So even if it took him a month it would still be cheaper than my other bid.

      As for watching the guy's progress, I go to the site every day, except the day when my framers did the cornices with no brick pocket but that is another thread :)

      Thanks for the numbers and times. I appreciate it.

      Happy holidays

      Dennis

      1. bruceb | Dec 18, 2004 05:22am | #25

        Around these parts a house like that would need to be wrapped up in a week. Too many illegals and cutthroats for it to be otherwise.

         When I first started out a friend and I used to trim 1800sqft colonials. around 20 doors, 14 windows, base, and crown in at least three rooms. We would start at 7 am saturday and walk away 7 am sunday. One a week for months.

        For really big stuff or high end stuff you can double or triple those prices. Of course those are aroind three years old. I've not done anything in that long and probably haven't kept pace with inflation.

        Also note, I did not include the Cabinets.

      2. bruceb | Dec 18, 2004 05:27am | #26

         Maybe I missed something because if it's $40 per hour per man he would be hitting you up for $3200 per week. So a month and your over budget. as a matter of fact, three weeks and your over budget.

        If he's charging $20 per hour per man I'm not sure why he doesn't just work at home depot.

        1. djj | Dec 18, 2004 05:58am | #28

          Robert,

          Our Home Depot  pays about 8 bucks an hour. :)

          Nope it is $20 per hour per man or $1600 per week. I asked him about the rate and he said that he knows some guys in town are charging $30-35 per hour/man but that is crazy (his words not mine). Hey, as long as he is happy...

          Regards,

          Dennis 

          1. bruceb | Dec 18, 2004 06:38am | #29

             

             

            Our Home Depot  pays about 8 bucks an hour. :)

             

             And after expense he making about $10 an hour. Hell, if you are happy with his work, By all means. $20 an hour? man, just hope he doesn't hear of a guy named Jerald Hayes between now and the time he starts your job.

          2. DougU | Dec 18, 2004 07:48am | #30

            Robert

            Your trying to compare your cost of living with that of an entirely different place, cant be done.

            You don't have info on your profile, have to talk to rez about that, I think your somewhere out east?

            I worked for a place 70 miles away from where Dennis is and my boss got $45 an hr for us, but we were not trimming out 3 to 400,000 dollar homes. And there was only one shop like ours within 150 miles.

            I was trimming track homes 60 miles away from the area mentioned. This was back about 5 to 6 years ago. I think we were probably getting about 20 to 22 and hr. That was considered decent for the area. I was happy with it, just not happy doing track homes. I don't think pay has gone up that much in the time elapsed.

            Doug

          3. User avater
            jonblakemore | Dec 18, 2004 06:39pm | #31

            Doug,Were you getting $20-22 as an employee or a sub? I think no matter where you live, a $20/hr. billing rate is dirt cheap. 

            Jon Blakemore

          4. m2akita | Dec 18, 2004 07:15pm | #32

            I have just two things two say/ ask.

            1.  How can you guys give a trim estimate from just the lineal ft. that that has been given you?  No one knows how many corners and such there are to deal with.  How cut up is the house??

            2.  At $20/hr per man how does this guy make any money?  So he's down to $10 -15/ hr per man after over head.  And this is only his billable hours.  Lets add in paper work time, site visit time, tool maint repair time, etc. and he'd probably be making more working at Home Depot.  Cost of living cant be that cheap where ever he is living ( at least in the U.S.).

            Or am I missing something???

             

            -m2akita

          5. djj | Dec 18, 2004 08:40pm | #34

            My thanks to all who replied. I appreciate all your input. I wasn't looking for any hard numbers, especially since I didn't include info about number of copes, miters, inside/outside corners etc. Just trying to get a very high level SWAG for the time to do a job like this to help me compare to my fixed price bid.

            Also sorry to start up a minor firestorm about this guys rates. He charges what he feels is the proper rate for his work for our area. Based on his rates, and the rough amount of time he thinks it will take him for the job his bill still comes out to within 15% of my fixed bid

            Thanks!

            Happy holidays to everyone!

            Dennis

          6. DougU | Dec 18, 2004 09:53pm | #35

            As a sub.

            I agree that 20 to 22 is cheap, I doubt that there are many subs down here in TX that are making that much. Especially when their trimming for less then a buck a sq. We were getting $1.20 give or take.

            Subbing for any track builder is no way to get rich!

            I went from averaging in the neighborhood of 20 to 22 as a sub, doing track homes, to earning 18 as an employee, with benefits, vacation, 401, paid holidays, obviously the later was the better deal, not to mention we were working in million dollar homes.

            when we built a fire place mantle we were allowed to bill 12 hrs time. Some of the trim crew would build one in 8 hrs, always looked like it to, I on the other hand took probably 16 hrs. It was the only place you could do something neat. Still only got 12 hrs pay though. Had to make it up someplace else.

            The billable hrs were based on what carp scale was. I think that was somewhere in the area of 20-22.

            I'm not arguing that 20 an hr is great money, we all know that its not. I'm saying that you cant compare what someone in NY gets to what someone in Iowa gets.

            I dont know what this particular carp needs for his time, hell if he's happy and does good work what the hell is the problem.

            Doug

             

  7. Isamemon | Dec 19, 2004 12:25am | #36

    wheres Blodgett in this, I thought he was the FHB contributor for trim, great guy

    any way, around this neck of the woods. 1.5 per square is normal for a goodin' of course thats labor only

    thers lots of hacks out there who think "tub and tile" is  a piece of trim

    hired a low bid trim guy. did ok. burned me up on materilas. later found out from  remodel-owner that trim guy was messing up a lot and would put the mistakes in his truck under a tarp.

    painted trim, etc , here is an old ditty taught to me by an old dog

    tub and tile ( a great tube squeeze  paintable caulking)

    " carpenter carpenter

    do your best

    tub and tile

    do the rest"

    1. xMikeSmith | Dec 19, 2004 01:36am | #37

      isa..

       i had

      a  guy trimming for me..

        i walked in on him cutting up all his mistakes  on a chop saw so he could hide them in the trash barrel

       

      bye  -  bye   Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

      1. User avater
        dieselpig | Dec 19, 2004 03:26am | #38

        Whaddya think ate at you the most.... the mistakes or the deceit?  I've got a real problem with shady dudes.... I can handle screw-ups much better.

        1. xMikeSmith | Dec 19, 2004 03:30am | #39

          i never mind mistakes .. if i did , i'd hate myself and fire me

          he just didn't get it....

          i can fix most anything.. but i can't fix mistrust.. obviously, he didn't trust me.. so i couldn't trust himMike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

Log in or create an account to post a comment.

Sign up Log in

Become a member and get full access to FineHomebuilding.com

Video Shorts

Categories

  • Business
  • Code Questions
  • Construction Techniques
  • Energy, Heating & Insulation
  • General Discussion
  • Help/Work Wanted
  • Photo Gallery
  • Reader Classified
  • Tools for Home Building

Discussion Forum

Recent Posts and Replies

  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
View More Create Post

Up Next

Video Shorts

Featured Story

Podcast Episode 690: Sharpening, Wires Behind Baseboard, and Fixing Shingle Panels

Listeners write in about fireplaces and ask questions about sharpening hand tools, easier wiring upgrades, and fixing cedar siding.

Featured Video

Micro-Adjust Deck-Baluster Spacing for an Eye-Deceiving Layout

No math, no measuring—just a simple jig made from an elastic band is all you need to lay out a good-looking deck railing.

Related Stories

  • Podcast Episode 690: Sharpening, Wires Behind Baseboard, and Fixing Shingle Panels
  • FHB Podcast Segment: Hand Tool Sharpening Tips
  • Old House Air-Sealing Basics
  • A Drip-Free, Through-Window Heat Pump

Highlights

Fine Homebuilding All Access
Fine Homebuilding Podcast
Tool Tech
Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20

"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Fine Homebuilding Magazine

  • Issue 332 - July 2025
    • Custom Built-ins With Job-Site Tools
    • Fight House Fires Through Design
    • Making the Move to Multifamily
  • Issue 331 - June 2025
    • A More Resilient Roof
    • Tool Test: You Need a Drywall Sander
    • Ducted vs. Ductless Heat Pumps
  • Issue 330 - April/May 2025
    • Deck Details for Durability
    • FAQs on HPWHs
    • 10 Tips for a Long-Lasting Paint Job
  • Old House Journal – August 2025
    • Designing the Perfect Garden Gate
    • Old House Air-Sealing Basics
  • Issue 329 - Feb/Mar 2025
    • Smart Foundation for a Small Addition
    • A Kominka Comes West
    • Making Small Kitchens Work

Fine Home Building

Newsletter Sign-up

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox.

  • Green Building Advisor

    Building science and energy efficiency advice, plus special offers, in your inbox.

  • Old House Journal

    Repair, renovation, and restoration tips, plus special offers, in your inbox.

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters

Follow

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X

Membership & Magazine

  • Online Archive
  • Start Free Trial
  • Magazine Subscription
  • Magazine Renewal
  • Gift a Subscription
  • Customer Support
  • Privacy Preferences
  • About
  • Contact
  • Advertise
  • Careers
  • Terms of Use
  • Site Map
  • Do not sell or share my information
  • Privacy Policy
  • Accessibility
  • California Privacy Rights

© 2025 Active Interest Media. All rights reserved.

Fine Homebuilding receives a commission for items purchased through links on this site, including Amazon Associates and other affiliate advertising programs.

  • Home Group
  • Antique Trader
  • Arts & Crafts Homes
  • Bank Note Reporter
  • Cabin Life
  • Cuisine at Home
  • Fine Gardening
  • Fine Woodworking
  • Green Building Advisor
  • Garden Gate
  • Horticulture
  • Keep Craft Alive
  • Log Home Living
  • Military Trader/Vehicles
  • Numismatic News
  • Numismaster
  • Old Cars Weekly
  • Old House Journal
  • Period Homes
  • Popular Woodworking
  • Script
  • ShopNotes
  • Sports Collectors Digest
  • Threads
  • Timber Home Living
  • Traditional Building
  • Woodsmith
  • World Coin News
  • Writer's Digest
Active Interest Media logo
X
X
This is a dialog window which overlays the main content of the page. The modal window is a 'site map' of the most critical areas of the site. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page.

Main Menu

  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Video
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Popular Topics

  • Kitchens
  • Business
  • Bedrooms
  • Roofs
  • Architecture and Design
  • Green Building
  • Decks
  • Framing
  • Safety
  • Remodeling
  • Bathrooms
  • Windows
  • Tilework
  • Ceilings
  • HVAC

Magazine

  • Current Issue
  • Past Issues
  • Magazine Index
  • Subscribe
  • Online Archive
  • Author Guidelines

All Access

  • Member Home
  • Start Free Trial
  • Gift Membership

Online Learning

  • Courses
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Podcast

More

  • FHB Ambassadors
  • FHB House
  • Customer Support

Account

  • Log In
  • Join

Newsletter

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Follow

  • X
  • YouTube
  • instagram
  • facebook
  • pinterest
  • Tiktok

Join All Access

Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features.

Start Your Free Trial

Subscribe

FHB Magazine

Start your subscription today and save up to 70%

Subscribe

Enjoy unlimited access to Fine Homebuilding. Join Now

Already a member? Log in

We hope you’ve enjoyed your free articles. To keep reading, become a member today.

Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine.

Start your FREE trial

Already a member? Log in

Privacy Policy Update

We use cookies, pixels, script and other tracking technologies to analyze and improve our service, to improve and personalize content, and for advertising to you. We also share information about your use of our site with third-party social media, advertising and analytics partners. You can view our Privacy Policy here and our Terms of Use here.

Cookies

Analytics

These cookies help us track site metrics to improve our sites and provide a better user experience.

Advertising/Social Media

These cookies are used to serve advertisements aligned with your interests.

Essential

These cookies are required to provide basic functions like page navigation and access to secure areas of the website.

Delete My Data

Delete all cookies and associated data