I have a lot of problem trim in my “new” old house. Its amber shellaced, which I’m starting to like. Here are some problems:
1. Some of the trim has a lot of thumbtack holes in if from curtains being pinned back for the last 40 years. Is there a way to fill these small holes nicely and add shellac finish. I’m open to waxing, if that will help.
2. The wood filler that’s in the (big) finish nail holes doesn’t even come close to matching – its yellow the shellac is orange. What to do?
3. When I need to remove a vertical piece of window trim, I’m at a loss. Its nailed all along the length, but also into the top miter and thru the stool at the bottom. The bottom nail is covered by the apron. Seems like I have to get one of those two out before I start prying along the length to get the trim off. How is this done, neither are easy to get out with out damaging the trim?
4. If someone can tell me how to do #3, is it worth prying the trim off the windows to insulate behind them or is there some way to air seal around the trim without making it look like there’s caulk all over the trim? These are spring loaded, double-hungs with interlocking weatherstripping on the sides.
I’m sure someone will recommend painting or replacing which would be easy but neither are an option.
Thanks for any and all advice.
Replies
1. Some of the trim has a lot of thumbtack holes in if from curtains being pinned back for the last 40 years. Is there a way to fill these small holes nicely and add shellac finish
get a container of filler that matches the color, finger it in/on, wipe the area with a clean rag - then you can take an artist's brush and dab thinned shellac over the filled holes - but I'd do nothing for a while and evaluate if it's worth the trouble - the filled holes may be unobtrusive enough not to bother you -
2. The wood filler that's in the (big) finish nail holes doesn't even come close to matching - its yellow the shellac is orange. What to do?
preferred by me: get a water color set and paint the filler area to match the color and then shellac over the paint - or gouge enough of the existing filler to re-fill with appropriate color filler -
3....How is this done, neither are easy to get out with out damaging the trim?
very carefully...it wasn't put up to take down - can't see it from here, but if parts are captive, ya got to get what's holding them out of the way - analyze the order it was put up and disassemble in reverse order - flat prybars of various sorts - sometimes there is a strategic nail that you can take a punch and drive it on thru the trim piece to start the process - - I sometimes take a hacksaw blade held by a plastic handle and slip it behind the trim and saw off the nails -
when you do get pieces down, either snip the nails off or pull them on thru the trim - don't try to pound them out the face side -
shellac is an easy overcoat (if you know what you are doing), fill, clean, scuff with steel wool and brush on a new coat -
practice on baseboard in an inconspicuous spot before tackling the window trim - -
Bob - For your nail holes I'd clear out any mis-matched filler, then fill everything with a matching wax stick.Then if you use a clear shellac over everything it should all look uniform.
Your #4 can help out your #3. Try to gently pry all three sides off at once.Do a little all the way around, then around again a little more as many times as you need until it's free on all three sides with just the bottoms of both side legs still nailed at the sill. You should now be able to lift it up and away as a 3 piece "unit". Just go slow and take your time, old trim is notorious for getting brittle with age and is easily split/cracked.
Now you can insulate and re-install... Hope this helps... Buic
I would use Shellac sticks to fill those holes. You heat the shellac and fill the holes. Might be a little hard if it is vertical, but you can pack it in until it cools enough to stay in place. Also known as burn-in sticks.
john
here's how I deal with #3- use a thin flat bar, tap it in between the casing and stool ( you don't need much space), and cut the nail with a hacksaw blade. I have a handle that will hold a blade, but you can just wrap it with some electrical tape, or hold it in some vise grips.
Then carefully pry off the casings. Its probably best to pry off the entire casing assembly as a whole, and then take it apart. Old trim tends to be brittle, and will crack if you're not careful. Work your way around the window, take your time, and you'll get everything off in one piece.
All good replies. Thanks.I got one piece off from around the sidelights at my front door. It was in bad shape anyway, so I didn't mind damaging it a bit getting it off. I noticed the plaster (rock lath walls) goes all the way to the sidelight frame - so there's no place for insulation anyway. Is this typical? Do people do that to the windows too? I guess that would also answer #4. Is adding a wax topcoat typical on shellaced trim? I thought that might also do some airsealing.
Bob - The space for the insulation is under the edge of the plaster, between the stud and the jamb. It can be a nasty buisiness to cut away 1/2" of the plasters' edge so that you can fill the gap. Plaster has been known to crack out beyond what the trim will cover. Try to cut it so that the plaster isn't overly shaken or grabbed by the blade of whatever your using. I've had good luck with a coarse metal cutting blade in a sawzall AND a light touch. A roto-zip with a carbide bit will work too but be prepared for some dust...
Oh, and yes, the plaster going up to the jamb is very common, the plasterer rode the end of his trowel along the jamb so that the surface of the plaster would be flush with the wood... Buic
If that's the case, and I'll maybe check a window to see if they are all like that, I won't insulate behind them. The plaster ought to air seal okay and that minimal value of insulation probably won't pay for the trim I'll inevitably break trying to pry them off. I probably won't start off perfect and run the table.Thanks for the info about how the plastering is done.
I used to insulate homes for the low income program (northern Iowa) and we would pressure test the home before starting. We got our bonus by how much we decreased the cfm air infiltration. Most of the air infiltration is coming throught the walls, stud cavities open to the attic, joist cavities open to side attics and balloon framing between the floors. After insulating with blown in cellulose and sealing the areas mentioned we would have a signifcant drop in cfms. When we tried to spend more time weatherstriping windows (really bad windows) and adding sash locks we never really saw much more reduction in cfms. Hard to believe, but we were trying to get more bonus. We gave up on windows and so did the state.
If you are insulating the crack next to the window for r-value what about the large glass area right next to it with a low r-value. If you are trying to seal the air infiltration maybe you should look for the really big ones like open stud cavities in the attic and save your trim.
I live in a big old house too and a never remove the trim unless I have to. If I remove plaster I try to dig out the plaster behind the trim (1/2") and tuck the sheetrock behind. I have given up on getting a perfect vapor barrier installed in this old house.
If you're getting drafts around the windows, put a piece of Tyvek behind the casings when you replace them. Tack it to the window jamb, and tape it to the wall. Cut off any excess after the trim is replaced.