I am changing out some old leaky windows with new Andersen double-hungs and am soliciting ideas for trimming out the exteriors…
Style could be Cottage Shingle, Craftsman Bungalow, etc…Siding is a 12″ hard board lap type, so the side casings need to be built up or have at least 1 1/4″ depth…Need some type of header and a small sill, maybe an apron…
Any of your favorite designs or good ideas (pics) will be appreciated….
Replies
Greetings gary, As a first time poster Welcome to Breaktime.
This post, in response to your question, will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again.
Perhaps it will catch someones attention that can help you with advice.
Cheers
'Nemo me impune lacesset'
No one will provoke me with impunity
Hi Gary
Here is my typical detail. It takes a little more time on the tablesaw but the result is drop dead curb appeal.
Mike - Do you use a metal flashing over that cap or just leave the wood?
I would probably throw some kind of chamfer/angle on the top of the bead over the window to help shed water.
Design wise, it looks like an interior window. Not sure if I care for the "apron" under the sill, but you are right, that window design will get people to pay attention.
Nice work.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Yes I did flash over the top of the cornice. The flashing was just galvanized 1.5"x1.5" that I etched with acetic acid and painted to match. The butt end of the shake covers the flashing mostly. The cornice is old growth redwood so it will take a few hundred years to rot off.Mike Callahan, Lake Tahoe, Ca.
Mike,
That is one nice reply! Both picture and detail. Awesome!
Mike
Yea Mike,
That is what I needed, the bead is something I would not have thought for an exterior window...but really makes it.
Since posting I searched out the July '99 FHB issue that has a window trim article that is good...He talks about a copper flashing...Which I should probably include in my detail....He also shows, a two piece false sill that is worth trying....I think a sill with an apron is a nice look...
Thanks Gary
Mike Callahan's cabinet head trim is great.
His window is painted green.
Are you guys painting vinyl Andersen window frames ?
carpenter in transition
Mike - caught this thread in the archives. What material is the crown made out of? Did you mill it yourself, or buy it? I need to do something similar, like the idea of Azek, but don't know what to make the crown detail out of. Attached is a pic of some of the windows I need to re-trim out - after we finish removing the old aluminum siding.
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half of good living is staying out of bad situations
I see yur back on yur feet and have upgraded yur digs substancially...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I'd like a place like that. Somethings to work towards.
In that there was something there originally. bwaa!
Vicky's r best
be just a clapboard shack
half of good living is staying out of bad situations
The Andersens have a vinyl nailing flange. This flange sits on top of the sheathing and you cannot lay a flat board over it. A rabbet 1/8" x 1 1/8" is generally cut on the back side of your casings so the trim will sit flat on the wall. This requires either 5/4 (1") material or a 1/4" backer behind 3/4" material to bring the trim out far enough to be proud of the siding. Thicker siding will require thicker material or a suitable backer strip. I don't normally use the sill piece like Mike does. I don't want any horizontal projections to catch moisture. They do add a nice shadow line as do other molding projections around the window. I seem to have misplaced some pictures but I have a couple of a house with a fairly plain trim applied.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I'm also getting ready to trim out some andersons... and plan to use hardie siding... plan to box out the window.... and really like what you did.... do you have any more shots [even close-ups] of the square window... I really like how you did them.
-Ryan
Hi Ryan,
I can try a blowup with one of the pictures of that house. I did a quick hand sketch of the parts. Andersens have a nailing flange that you may have to rabbet the back of the casing for. You could also attach a backer that is sized to fit the back of the casing and allows stepping over the flange, something like a strip of plywood instead of cutting a rabbet. These windows also have some corner covers on the top of the window. These will keep your trim away from the vinyl window sides about 1/16" each side, which is not a problem. You just have to account for this extra when cutting parts.I put the sill or bottom casing on first, cut about 1/8" longer than the window sill to allow for those corner covers. I cut a rabbet on the bottom edge so siding can fit up under. I run the side casings from the bottom of the sill casing to the top of those corner covers. The side casing is rabbeted on the bottom, the same as the sill casing, to allow siding under. The head casing on these windows are made up of three pieces. I just shaped the edges with a router, choose your favorite profiles. These were a simple half round on the lower piece, flat board and a cove shape on the top. These pieces were cut to size and routed on the ends. The amount of overhang for the molding pieces is notched so the siding runs straight up the side of the window casing.It seems my customers like things to look good but be simple and not too expensive. Go figure. The Andersens project from the wall enough to add another shadow line to the windows. Obviously, you need to pay attention to the proper flashing details and caulking, which I haven't shown. If you use Vicor, you may have to compensate for that in keeping everything flat to the wall. Oops, that sketch is huge and I can't get it to reduce. Hopefully you get the idea.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
Thanks Razzman, what would this place be without you! You keep everything running smooth and hardly say a word.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Just paying dues is all.Gives good dividends. This thread gave me the trim design for my exterior windows. :o)
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'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
Edited 3/19/2006 10:40 pm ET by razzman
Ditto... thanks Razzman for reducing the shots!
-Ryan
Hammer-
AWESOME picture... thanks a ton for sketching out the plans. I've got a bunch of 5/4" x 4 AZEK that I plan to use.... was going to just box the windows out but now you've inspired me! A couple more thoughts if you've got a second-
- If I'm using composite... and want to make that crown piece.. do I glue two together before the router work-or do you buy some thicker stock?
- Any trouble w/ water rolling back towards the head casing on that thin piece of trim above the window? I really like the look but I'm picking up on the fact that most keep everything proud of the last all the way up the window... then flash over the cornice.
Thoughts?
I don't have much experience with synthetics, Rooftop. I worry about every horizontal surface. They are always the place where the green stuff grows. With a sill type piece, the end grain of the side casings sit on top and can wick water. You often see that this is the first place where paint starts to fail. With the molding I put directly over the window top, there isn't the same end grain situation. I flash the window as though there was no trim going on it. I haven't had the joint with the fascia open up, I do caulk it and glue the piece when I screw it on the flat board. I also flash the top of the head casing so that is covered in metal. If water were to work it's way into these joints, there is a flashing backup. The wider the projection, the more you have to be concerned. It wouldn't be too difficult to bevel any of the horizontal pieces, either by cutting the "ledge" on a bevel like Mike did, or ripping and cutting all the joints on an angle. Any type of molding can be made or used. Some may require mitering the return corners. There are also some pre-shaped head casings available in solid stock. I shaped all the pieces before I assembled them. I actually did all the work in the shop and shipped everything off to the painter for full coverage. Installation was just a matter of nailing up four precut pieces. I recently made some interior head casing. You could mill the Azek in similar ways and glue it up. I'll post a picture (dang forgot to use an extention). This happened to be mahogany, so. I used some pine where it wouldn't show. Obviously, you would not want any extra joints. I look at my bits and cutters and try to be creative, at least with the ones that are sharp enough to use.The top molding in the house picture is 5/4 with a cove shaped on the edge and around the end grain corners. You can see the detail in the little end grain elevation in my sketch, upper right. I held the lower molding out for the nailing flange, which I forgot to show. The lower molding is 3/4 with a 1/2 round. I tried to make the combination of the casing width and the window, compatible with the rows of siding. You can often cheat a few rows 1/8" at a time and make up for small differences without it showing. This eliminates a lot of notching cuts that can be prone to leaking. A home owner that maintains their caulking will extend the life of most exterior work. Rain doesn't fall in a nice straight down line. Keeping things proud, in order, won't keep anything dry. If the building is open and not crowded with trees and shrubs, most of the water that is driven onto the windows dissipates pretty fast. If you use the Azek adhesive on your joints, I think you'll be fine. My widest piece is the top at 2", about 1 1/8" is proud of the siding. If you project farther, Mike Callahan's detail is the way to go. Beveling the wide horizontal pieces and covering the top.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
The sill detail actually looks better and prevents moisture problems.Water rolls off and falls away; especially if it has the proper groove underneath.water gets sucked into flush/picture frame trim through capillary action and stays there. I've replaced a ton of it.Head casing should be proud of the side casing for the same reason.
Old trim details were functional and that contributes to their beauty. mike
hammer,
Nice work. I thought I recognized your project, realized I'd saved out the picture as a nice example, from a previous post of yours.
One question on that frieze board - did you run it over the shakes, or did you miter them and butt them against it?
Thanks, Shearwater. All the trim fits on the wall and the siding butts up against everything. There isn't anything on top of the shingles. I notched the end of the pieces that have "ears" so the siding actually runs straight up the window casing, right past the head casing. I also made the trim to come even with the rows of siding. On this head casing, I did not miter the returns. They are just the end grain cuts, shaped all around. Because of all the arch tops on this job, I wanted to keep the exterior trim fairly simple. The arched windows are just flat casing. If I got too fancy with the rectangular windows, I'd have to get fancy with the arch tops. That gets expensive.Since the trim doesn't project too far, I didn't worry about the horizontal surfaces. If you are going to have wider projections, maybe with a crown molding, you may want to bevel those surfaces, like in Mike Callahan's work. Next time, I think I'll bevel that 1/2 round molding a little.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Here's a pic of how I trimmed my windows.
1x6 head, 1x4 jamb, cap and sill ripped from 5/4 cedar decking w/ blade at 10 degrees. Head and apron also given a 10degree bevel on their top edges so the sill and cap would have good drainage. Cap is flashed.
Edited 3/19/2006 12:05 am ET by basswood
I just finished a siding job where the local lumber yard got me some composite sill material that looks just like the marvin window sills. I beveled the top to fit tight to the bottom of the window. Then I trimmed with 5/4 x 4 legs and head with a drip cap. No apron. I plow out the back for the flange, paint the plow with an oilbase primer and pre assemble the frame with pocket screws (exterior) and deck screws to hold the sill on. I don't know how to put a picture on here but if you e-mail me I can attatch one in the reply. Good luck.
[email protected]
Okay... Thanks Jason... I'll send you an email... pics would be great if you have a minute-
Tx-Ryan