trimming window jambs flush with drywall
Hi,
How does one go about trimming window jambs that stick out past the edge of the drywall? My inlaws have built a house with walls having different thicknesses. Some of the window jambs need to be extended to meet the drywall while others need to be trimmed back. Extending them is not a problem but trimming them back neatly is an issue. My father in law has a portable power planer that he is thinking of using, but he mentioned that, so far, he is having trouble getting smooth, flat, straight cuts with it when he has used it in other applications. They have installed really expensive windows so he really needs to do it right the first time. The windows are made of stain grade fir ($$$$$). We thought about using a router but I think the router base is too wide to fit on the jamb without taking out the window. I know that there are such tools as flush cut circular saws, but am worried that these would score the already finished and painted drywall surrounding the window. Does he just need to practise with the planer and get on with it? Oh, and while I mentioned that extending the jambs out is not a problem, any tips on doing this would also be appreciated.
Thanks.
Phil
Replies
Some practice with the planer will be helpful, but I don't think I'd use it for this task. A planer takes material off of the surface without regard to what that material is (so long as it's soft enough). And the painted drywall is soft enough for the planer to shave it as well as the jambs.
If your router's base is too wide, you might think about a laminate trimmer, or a zip saw, with a flush-trim bit in it. The trimmers and zips are smaller, less powerful versions of a router. And a flush trim bit is just what the doctor ordered here.
How far are the jambs past the drywall?
On some windows, the jambs stick out a good1.5"...so unfortunately, modifying the casing is not an option.
Phil
Did I read that right? an inch and a half?..you have gotten windows for a 2x6 wall and put them in a 2x4 wall..Let's hope they are extensions that you can just pry off.
yeah, 1.5"... The house is a timber frame built on a concrete foundation on three sides with a wood foundation on the walk out basement side. The windows on the walls with the concrete foundation need to have their jambs extended while the windows on the walls that a wood framed need to be trimmed back. I kinda thought it was weird that, given the otherwise custom status of everything else in the house, the window jambs would not have been customed ordered to fit the openings. Looks like they got standard jambs widths for all of the windows. Don't think that they can be pried off of the window frames to start over. Could be wrong here. Anyways, that is what they have. The GC did everything except the base and case, which is what my father in law wants to do. PRobably would have been better for my father in law to let the GC deal with his own mess and satisfy his need to contribute with other projects, like building furniture! Thanks for the help.
Phil.
OK, got that. If it were me. I'd take a Jap. saw (pull saw) crosscut about an eighth away from the DW many kerfs and SPLIT out the waste..then plane to sweet . Saw around the corners as well and Watch the grain..even pare witha WIDE chisel.Router can blow out too easily.
WOW!! 1-1/2" is a lot to take off. Maybe you could try cutting them down first with a sawzall or something and then belt sand them. If you can get them within 1/4" of finish, belt sanding goes quickly. If I only have a window or two to do, I wiil block plane them flush, but I think your arm will get very tired with what you face.<G>
Hi I've been following the thead for a while and I have been trying to figure out how to get illistrations on the messages. Then as I reread the last couple of entries I see the 1+1/2", I was thinking3/4" but just use the jig and start off with 1=1/2" block spacer. I have a 1600 bosch that I use for this kind of stuff with a 1" straight bit. I am gonna try to post the pictures or if not and attachment with the drawings I attempted.
Clay
clay... i get a message that says your file is corrupted... if you want to show something.. easiest way for all to see it is to convert it to a XXX.jpg compressed file
a good conversion progam is Irfanview.. FREE download
here's ONE link ... there should be others..
http://download.com.com/3000-2192-10223761.html?tag=lst-0-1
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 1/8/2004 5:59:23 PM ET by Mike Smith
Hi I tried to check it out and it came through on my computer but the other day I lowered my security settings.
I reduced it to a zip and when you open it you have to double click the file btm.
I Am trying to play with being able to move this E stuff around so I'll take a look at the site. I also got a Dig ital camera for C mas so I hope to be able to work some of that around in the future.
Thanks and I'll see what I can find.
Clay
Edited 1/8/2004 7:33:32 PM ET by Clay
Sounds like a lot of good features on the download so I'll see if this can get my paint drawing across to the page.I think I have to reload the original to the new format.Which I havn't done but will, trygoing to tools/security and drop your setting lower for a test and see if you can get the zip.
Oh key dokey lets see if this works. Hope no one's gettin mad at me for praticing computer
well back to the computer class
no... same message. i'll check out my end and see if mine is misbehavingMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Nothing wrong with your settings Mike. The file was a bitmap in a zip file. Clay, are you an AOL user? Here it is as a jpg
mmm.... thanks mugsy..... that's what i thought i was going to see... nice jigMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Not AOL any more, I sent it to me and I had to double click on the file name but it came across ok and in full page display. I was trying to experiment in paint program to try and see if I could draw displays, so that was the first attempt. Kinda like driving that first nail, hell I couldn't even get it in first gear no less drive it.
Clay
The router is by far the way to go. You can get fancy with a jig, or you can be simple and just screw on a half base and adjust your bit accordingly. I might leave the jamb proud a tad to ensure a tight fit. I would also sawzall the first inch off.
I would adjust my final payment to the builder for the time it takes to trim these things down, and of course I would inform him of my intent first. He may decide to just do it himself, as he shoud have the first time.Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
Ok Hopefully this will get this little fupa done with, see if this gets it the way you need to recieve it.
i like new stuff . yesterday my little furry buddy pulled a black and decker "thats right b-d outta his box van . the machine is called the NAVIGATOR . jap saw short stroked sawzall like orange . 60 bucks and im gettin one . betcha it can cut those jambs anyone ever use one ?
Dear Mr. Sphere,
You know my position now and the position of other like minded people. Continue to speak as you will. Understand, however, that how you refer to us directly or indirectly is opposed.
Language does not exist in an island, it is a product of relationships b/w and among people.
Get over it..the war was over 60 years ago. And I repeat, NO slur, to you or any of those whom you refer to as 'US'. I lived in Japan for 2 years for cryin out loud..You are chosing to be offended where there is none intended..your CHOICE pal.
Around here they call me a Yankee, ya don't hear ME getting my BVD's in a wad. I can take it as it is meant..no harm, no foul.
clay... i just found a bunch of posts that i missed back in January... oh , wellMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Hi Mike
Help me out here, I'm trying to figure out what kind of problems sending files as attachments? I sent a bunch of stuff to a friend to see if they come through and I can't see that there are any problems. It does seem that if not using a E-mail and using Prospero there is a little more complication. PDF. ZIP.Gif. all this stuff seems to work on my machine? and cross sending as a test has been working good. Am I missing something or ?
I Have apprenticed under Mavis Bacon teaches typing, so bear with me. But I do have some pretty spiffy E-quipment.
Clay
Incoperate it into the trim feature. Add jamb extensions to make them all the same.
Rethink your trim out.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Ya, if it's not too far past maybe the trim can be altered to fit flush on the jamb and drywall.
I've had decent luck using a 3x21 belt sander. Try to find one thats fairly light. Draw a pencil line on the sheetrock at the outer edge of where the trim will be so you don't grind too far, and have at it. I usually grind perpendicular until I get close, and then sand with the grain to straighten everything out. Its not as hard as you might think if you're a little careful, and its pretty quick.
Hundreds of window jambs. One block plane. No more relieable way.Keep it sharp, sink the ext. nails (deep, or often) and plane to a bit less than flush...about a fat 16th off the sheetrock..and a slight backbevel helps as well.
as for adding ext. jambs. Depends on the manufacturer some are supplied loose some installed...or you make yer own. I like to start with the head jamb ...take a pc. of matching material (useually Pine) and hold it against the exixting jamb and scribe with a pencil to the sr above..rip or plane to the line. If it winds out that the factory set the extensions and you need to only add an eighth or so..remove the factory jamb and make a new one in one pc. Repeat for the sides, and if you are picture framing the window the bottom also..if not picture framing set your stool after the head then install the sides. An air nailer is the way to go if you can do that .
Welcome to Breaktime.
FHB had an article not long ago about adding jamb extensions. You may be able to get to it from the FHB home page and the search function. One of the regulars here wrote the article I am thinking of. Hey, Jim if you are around, jump on in here.
Using a power plane on installed windows is tricky, even with practice. Your thought about the router is my first choice. I have a sled base designed for my old PC model 690 router. It replaces the regular router base and sits about 1" high in the middle of the two extra wide runners. Envision a D shaped block glued beneath one side of your regular router base. The other side has a 1/4 circle block glued to it, and there is a 1" grove between the two pieces. This allows me to uuse a 3/4" motising bit in the router, and gives me a 1" range of adjustment.
I set the bit down to take off1/8 to 3/16" per pass and use the D side of the sled to slide on the drywall. The 1/4 circle side on the other half of the base keeps me from over shooting when I reach the corner. Works like a charm with a very short learning curve.
I came up with this jig several years ago when a builder had windows with preinstalled jamb extensions for a six inch wall installed in a four inch wall.
I am sure some of the other regulars here have other methods that work also.
Dave
Hi Dave,
Was that in the 20th anniversary edition (March, 2001)? Cause I have that one and was going to give it to my father in law to have a look. One question though: In the photos for that article, it doesn't look like the jamb extensions need to be shimmed out from the framing very much. In my father in law's case, the jamb extensions may need to be shimmed as much as 3/4"!! Would it be better to just cut thin blocks and nail them on to the framing and then use shims for the last little bit of adjustment? I was worried about getting everything even such that there was a smooth transition between the jamb and the jamb extension. Thought that, with all of that stuff (blocks plus shims), it would be difficult to make it look good.
Thanks for the reply about the router jig.
Phil
I am just working from memory. The article was by Jim Blogart, if that is the one you are looking at. Jim hangs out here, so lets hope he drops in on this one.
On really wide or over sized rough openings I would nail up a combination of 3/4, 1/2, or 1/4" plywood rips to get as close to the final size as possible. Rip, scribe and install the jamb extensions and use the shims to keep them in plane with the original frame.
Since some of your extension are 1 1/2" to far out, I might want to start with the power plane. Get them close and finish with a block plane or the router jig I mentioned.
Dave
dave.... i've met jim's cousin Blodgett a couple times....
gotta get to know this imposter blogart.. sounds like an interesting dude Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
OOPS!
My apologies.
CRS is my excuss.
Dave
no problemo... and jim don't care...it's kathy you gotta watch out forMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Hmmmmmmmmmm,
I wonder if his father in law is nicknamed frenchy ?On a hill by the harbour
Nah, I don't think so. He didn't mention the "death machine", did he? May be that's the tool to cut that 1 1/2".
...steady hands...now steady...done
Heh, you guys seem to be fully off on what the legal profession calls a sidebar, I think. Thanks for all of the info...I'll just do the electronic version of letting myself out the back door.
Cheers, and thanks again for all of the great ideas.
Phil
How bout one of those old style mikita baby cordless circular saws, Ive always wanted to get one for little projects like this one. Seems you could cut around the inside of the frame and just hand cut the corners with a fine cut pull blade.
A Fein Multimaster will cut flush to the drywall without trashing it. Not the fastest, and blades are expensive but it works
HAve taken that much off misordered windows ....
saved the day.
all ya need is a good trim carp that isn't afraid of a sawzaw ....
measure and mark the line on the inside of the jamb .....
cut and leave that mark ....
gotta "add" as much as the blade is bending ....
gonna be an "beveled" cut sooner or later ...
straighten it all out with a power plane.....
have the belt sander sitting there to scare the wood ....
Not a job for a beginner ....
takes years of experience before ya start seeing the benefits of a sawzaw as a highly accurate trim tool .....
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Jeff,
I agree it is very easy if you know how........
On a hill by the harbour
Done that too...ever notice tho' that the guy who put the thing in there to begin with..ain't the same one trimming it? And that the cheaper window rattle themselves apart at the very sight of a sawzall? WASSUP Wid dat?...my current fixem up is sawzall heaven..luv them footlong demo blades..
with about 16 windows to do...that would be a long job. I am thinking of getting a fein anyways...worth the big bucks?
Phil
The Fein does come in handy for a lot of otherwise impossible cuts. Its a great finish sander. Not going to be the most used tool in the box, but I think its worth having. It would be really slow for trimming a lot of windows. If you want to do it fast, get a helper to hold a strip of sheet metal flat against the drywall. Use a sawzall with a long blade and let the blade rub right on the metal. You have to curve the blade a little. Then finish with a belt sander. Likewise let the edge of the belt rub right on the metal strip. Make sure the helper wears gloves so they don't lose any fingers. Could also screw on a block of 2x (from the back) as a handle. Make sure the windows are properly nailed and shimmed. The sawzall will tear them all to pieces if they're not solid.
Stain grade fir, you say ?
Probably a Loewen job, yes ?
I would call them and ask how the extensions are attached and what would be involved in ripping them off, even if you destroy them.
If they aren't destroyed, rip them down. For the ones that are too narrow, get new doug fir parts that are the right width.
Then go find the GC that ordered the things and bash his head in with a frozen pork chop. It's really his problem, anyway...........
carpenter in transition
Has anyone though of a good jigsaw? Just bevel the blade back away from the drywall a snudge (1 or 2 degrees) and finish it off with a sander. You can probably protect the finish by masking taping the base of the saw to help prevent marring the window. Before you mention it, yes, you will need to use a small trim hand saw in the corners.
Just a thought,
Splinky
NAH...way too easy..we like to rattle the house real good...maybe take the windo out and run it through a planer?
A jamb saw (flooring contractor's tool) can be used to get them close, and then the block plane will take off the rest.
But here is what I want to know. What is the un-extended wall depth of these windows? What wall depth are these windows mounted in? The 1-1/2" projection inboard of the wall finish just sounds like something strange.
Hi,
In message number 15, I explain the situation. I too don't know why the GC didn't take into consideration the different wall thicknesses. I am pretty sure someone overlooked something. Anyways, I'll talk to my father in law tonight and ask him to measure the wall thicknesses This is a timber frame house built on a partial concrete foundation. The walls were built outside of the timber frame but were not built using SIPs. The walls were balloon framed, which was apparently cheaper than using SIPs and maybe less toxic. So it doesn't surprise me that the wall thicknesses are out of standard. I am curious as to why the windows weren't customed outfitted with various width jambs. I will also put that question to my father in law tonight.
It is starting to sound like the consensus would be to use a router to get the jambs close and then some combination of sander/planer/block plan/chisel to finish them off nice and neat.
Thanks for your help.
Phil
Then go find the GC that ordered the things and bash his head in with a frozen pork chop. It's really his problem, anyway...........
That's my thinking too.
Are these windows installed. I didn't see anywhere where it said that, but I assumed they were. If not installed, what about a tablesaw? Zip-zip, your done.
Find out who made the mistake. If the GC did, shouldn't he pay or at least not charge you for the additional upcharge on the wider window frames.
Oh, never mind, Generals never make mistakes, nor architects. At least some of the ones I have worked for.
Edited 1/8/2004 8:03:41 PM ET by migraine
windows are already installed unfortunately...
Phil
I usually don't mess with projecting jambs unless the projection is slight and can be shaved with a block plane. Instead, I measure the projection and rip strips of wood similar to the trim, then glue them to the back of the trim. Sanding/planing the trim after attaching the trim extension to the trim will make the added wood disappear. Stain and finish the trim, then attach to window. This is particularly useful when the jamb projection beyond the wall plane is a uniform depth.
There are times I've had to use a band saw to cut long tapers for this purpose, which is why I sprung for a new 14" bandsaw this past summer. (That and floor tapers to level old floors.)
I've never had great success sanding/planing jambs without mucking up the drywall or creating out-of-square or rounded over jamb edges. But that could be just my own fallibilities coming back to haunt me.
Edit, just reread. Inch and a half projection? I have a Stihl 16" chain saw that might help. If they're extensions, pry them off and rip them down. If you can't, power plane and belt sander and a large capacity vacuum with a broom and dustpan.
Edited 1/5/2004 4:11:41 PM ET by NickNuke'em
Nick, he said some of them are an inch and a half proud of the dw. That would be a hell of a lot of buildup on the back of the cassing.
What is your limit for this technique?
Dave
Quarter inch is usually the mostest with the leastest. Most buildup with being the least noticable. But I had already reread and edited the message right after posting. You're right, 1.5" extensions on the casing would be a tad excessive. But they'd make great shadow lines. More like an eclipse creeping across the wall come sundown.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
Yuck it up! we call it BACKBAND..
In this case it would be a BACKBOARD!
I never met a tool I didn't like!
just caulk it in..
How about a router with flush cut bit....
Use a router the large base should not be much of a problem. If you use a bushing and a straight edge. If you do right you can cover the nail holes the trim. Tack the straight edge to the sheetrock the router will be held perpendicular to the sheetrock and use the bottom of the cuter to cut the window frame to the height of the sheet rock. ( (If you have 1” bit with a 1 ¼ bushing you can do it in one pass.) )
The bushing will ride against the guide the only thing you need to do is make sure the guide is tall enough so the bushing dose not touch the window frame. Adjust the cuter height so it almost touch the sheet rock, now cut.
ps you can do it the old fashion way use hand plane
Edited 1/5/2004 4:29:49 PM ET by fredsmart
Edited 1/5/2004 4:30:10 PM ET by fredsmart
My God Man...IS there a SMALLER font?..whats that .0003 ? Bump it up a notch please, we care what you say but don't don't want to have to WORK for it..<G>
Trimming houses is a big part of my business. I don't have time to mess around with little shims here and fillers there. It always looks overworked and gommed up. Window extention jambs and drywall hardly ever meet nice and flush. If your jambs are already in place and standing proud of the drywall more than an eighth you have to shave them down. This can be done with a router and something we call a banjo jig. Go to Rockler.com and look at the offset router base. I make my own out of 3/4" plywood. I use a 3/4" straight bit but many types will work. From where the bit projects through base, the back edge of the bit, cut away the bottom of the 3/4" plywood with dado blades on the table saw to the depth you need to remove on the jamb or slightly more. This makes a router plate with a step in it. Simply set the bit depth slightly above or flush with the bottom step. The bottom step sits on the drywall and the bit trims the jamb flush. You have to take light cuts and eat dust. Work with the bit rotation, counterclockwise. If you need to remove 1/2" take multiple light cuts. Nails and screws have to be set deep or removed. If a sill keeps you from getting to the end of the jamb just finish the last with a chisel or flush cut handsaw. If your jambs stick out an inch and a half someone ordered the wrong windows. The same procedure can be used but you need a thicker router plate. Poor you. Sometimes the wide jambs can be pulled off and resawn to the right size. This same jig can be used anywhere you need to trim things flush with a surface, edgebanding etc. Hope you get the picture, I haven't been able to attach a photo or sketch in this forum yet.
That is nearly the exact jig I was trying to describe in an earlier post. I added another block on the outboard side of the bit to act as a stop to keep me from running to far past the corners.
I'll have to check out the Rockler offset base. Sounds like another one of those solutions that many of us use, but only one guy thought to patent and market. Arghh......, another fortune lost!
Dave
I'd go with the router.
First I'd rough cut to within a quarter or half inch with any appropriate tool (sawzall/ etc). Then I'd get a good rigid straight board (such as 1x4 hardwood) and lay it up against the drywall alongside the jamb to be trimmed. That should make a good, stable surface for your router base. A second board would be a good idea to place on the inboard side of the jam for extra stability, though in that case you'd have to notch it for the sections of jamb it crosses. The boards could be temporarily screwed to the wall next to the jamb, since those areas will later be covered by trim.
With straight, flat 1x4's for your router base to ride on, I think you'd be guaranteed a straight edge on the finished jamb. Depending on the wood and your router, I'd consider making a few router passes, at gradually increasing depths, to reduce the chance of tearing out excess depth on the jamb.
As another option, you could skip the rough cutting if you started with 2x4's rather than 1x4's, though you'd need to make more router passes.