A subcontractor asked me what the little black diamonds are every 19 3/16″ on most if not all tape measurers.
I told him I couldn’t believe he didn’t know the answer and said that I,d let him think about it for awhile.
So my question is .What are the little black diamonds every 19 3/16″ on tapes for?
I thought I remember something about TJI s but I’m not sure.
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Replies
Those diamonds were around a looong time before TJI's.
They are simply another way to divide 8 feet into even measurements.
Quittin' Time
But why?
Sage,
I am sorry for the misleading answer Luka gave to your question.
Actually those marks are a vestige of the days of the stage coach.
The metal rims of the wheels woul come in straight lengths and those marks correspond to the proper spacing of the wholes for the spokes.
Mr TDo not try this at home!
I am a trained professional!
Simple answer is that it was a bit stronger than two foot centers, and saved a tiny bit of materials over 16 inch centers.
Quittin' Time
Thought them little spots were red, but I grabbed the closest tape and it's got no spots. Stanley Powerlock 25', no spots he sez!! Old (Grandfather's) Lufkin 100" has black diamonds at 16", nothing at 19s either. Spots must be options?
Joe H
That tape is 100', not inches.
Edited 1/23/2003 8:17:40 PM ET by JoeH
It's a conspiracy !!
Dangit. I lost my tinfoil hat, and the aliens musta come and changed my tapes as well. Got a stanley 25 and a max steel 30, in front of me with spots at 16, but no diamonds anywhere.
Next thing you know, they'll be changing all of them to metric.
Quittin' Time
those marks were made by a dyslexic tape mfr. who flipped the 16 into a 19... and then added 0.2"....
the hoax was further complicated by adding span tables to show framing at 19.2... but it was all yust a mistakeMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
No black diamonds on my tape either, Luka. Metric? That's the ticket. been using it for 25 years or more. No black diamonds on my any of my measuring sticks for that matter. 19-3/16"? That seems like a good number to avoid, ha, ha! Slainte.Website The poster formerly known as Sgian Dubh
God save the queen, he's come out of the closet! Nice tag line...guess in a month or so you'll have some strange symbol rather than a name.
howd you get a tape to last 25 years? <G>
panama, I don't use it much, ha, ha. Slainte. Website The poster formerly known as Sgian Dubh
LUKA!!!
You're NOT supposed to give the correct answer to this question to any one who doesn't know the secret handshake and todays password!!!!
TDo not try this at home!
I am a trained professional!
Congratulations!
You win the coveted foursquare prize, otherwise known as the big black diamond (lump of coal) for being the fourth person to have asked that question this year. WE're runing far ahead of last year already, thanks to you!
Entertainment comes hard this winter. Glad you volunteered to help us out.
(psst, Luka is telling secrets again)
The house I'm working on now was built on 19-3/16" centers eighty years ago! The reason it is often linked to TJIs or trusses is that it is a cost savings but much of one on a residence but when you get to big commercial work, the savings pile up quicker.
Excellence is its own reward!
I thought those diamonds were to mark the proper spacing of drywall screws when hanging cabinets? ...that's not a mistake, it's rustic
LOL
If thoughts were oughts, then I oughta think you screwed up those cabs...
;).
Excellence is its own reward!
Cubits!
My old dictionary says that a cubit is something around 16" to 22" but I guess they're not sure. But Stanley knows. 19 3/16" is a cubit. Now you can figure out how long Noah's Ark was.
-Peter
...that's not a mistake, it's rustic............... ....thats not out of level, its for drainage
Let's start a pool to see when the next time this is asked about.
I'll guess Mar. 3
Bear
March 17th
Mr TDo not try this at home!
I am a trained professional!
Piffin,
If you lay out a house on 19-3/16", you will have to saw 1/16" off of every sheet of plywood.
Unless you ran them parrallel to the framing then you would only have to take off 1/32".
A small effort to ensure greater accuracy I guess.
Mr TDo not try this at home!
I am a trained professional!
that's because it is NOT 19 3/16"... it's 19.2 which gussinta 96 exactly 5 times.... but u new that anyways, dint cha ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Gussinta, huh ?
Luka, Joe H. - look around in the very bottom of your tool bag. Your black spots obviously fell off. Probably the cold.
It's 15 degrees here in South Georgia this morning, lowest temp since 1996. I've told you before that water freezes at 55 here. Tuesday it was 71.
Greg
Great Guys
First time I,ve ever posted or looked at this forum.
18 posts and still don't know the correct answer I guess I'll go elsewhere.
Look at post 2 & 6 from Luka and 18 from Mike Smith. The all give the answer.
Edited 1/24/2003 10:34:45 AM ET by Bill_H
Those diamonds are layout marks for 19.2" stud or rafter or whatevr layout. Saves one stud every 8'..........
They are also the question of the week about every other month.
Joe H
Read Mike's post a little closer. It's 1/5 of 96 inches, another way to layout studs or joists. 96 inches being 8 ft. Like a sheet of plywood/OSB. Bear
"18 posts and still don't know the correct answer"
You got the answer - Must've overlooked it.
Luka said: "They are simply another way to divide 8 feet into even measurements."
Mike Smith said:" it is NOT 19 3/16"... it's 19.2 which goes in to 96" exactly 5 times."
And Mr. T said: "The metal rims of the wheels would come in straight lengths and those marks correspond to the proper spacing of the holes for the spokes."
O.K., so Mr. T maight have beeen smokin' some left handed cigarettes. But Luka and Mike Smith answered your question.
This question comes up frequently, so the poster is subject to getting made fun of a little bit. Don't take it too seriously.Get the facts first. You can distort them later.
Boss man
I'm still wondering what the asterisks next to our names are for...I think it may be there for those that had pre frontal labodomies.not sure though.
Be labodimized
Namaste'
Andy
"Attachment is the strongest block to realization"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Yea, it gets that way sometimes. The spots are for marking out joist spacing every 19.2 inches. The standard joist spacings tabulated in span tables are 12", 16", 19.2", and 24". These are chosen because they are what you get when you divide an 8 foot long sheet of underlayment plywood evenly by 8, 6, 5, and 4. Spacing joists at 19.2" is not as common because most framers just wing it, and tend to space more closely than needed. But, when using span tables you'll get the most economical of these spacings and still conform fully to load and deflection requirements. I used 19.2" in my house because it's cheaper than 16" and fully met performance specifications for loading and stiffness.
Edited 1/24/2003 4:52:27 PM ET by WAYNEL5
Wayne, how much do you suppose you actually saved? No, really, that's a serious question. If you save one joist every 8 ft, and suppose you're house is 48 ft long and two bays wide, you save 12 joists. (Is my logic right?) So whats the value of 12 joists?
That's what I was pointing out when I said that it is usually only done with commercial and larger jobs. For residential, it might only save about $700 and the confusion that results from guys not used to that layout usually ends up creating soem mistakes bigger than that. Then there's the insulation issue. If you are using fibreglass instead of foam or cells, it can be hard to find it for this layout and possibly more expensive. .
Excellence is its own reward!
My tapes don't have the marks, does anyone know where I could get them?
And how many do you think I need, do I have to do the whole tape?
Somehow I think this is going to be like buying rolls for hotdogs.
I could sell you a special Black Mark Applicator for a reasonable, I say reasonable $99.95! Do not let the Sharpie-esque looks fool you! This is a hand-crafted limited edition fine tools (quantities limited to 100 per order).
Don't send money! Oh heck, just send the money....that's not a mistake, it's rustic
I'd say 90% of the wood webbed floor trusses in this area are installed at 19.2" O.C. Don't know that it saves a ton of money - I think it's as much tradition as anything. But it also helps keep the material costs down a little more in line with I-joists.Future historians will be able to study at the Jimmy Carter Library, the Gerald Ford Library, the Ronald Reagan Library, and the Bill Clinton Adult Bookstore.
Aso, since web trusses are wider than I-joists, there isn't a whole lot of room between them for elbow room if you are a sub, feeding wires or plumbing. The wider layout can help create that space..
Excellence is its own reward!
the value is times two.. one for materials, one for labor... now multiply by the number of houses in the tract... and add in all the other things a developer can do to reduce costMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
My favorite response to this Q was read here a while back:
"The balck marks represent a regulation "A$$ Width"; used when laying out bleacher length or stadium seating."Steelkilt Lives!
Yeah and that makes 9-19/32" a half a$$!!
TDo not try this at home!
I am a trained professional!
That's true, but if you're building your own home, the savings isn't much compared to the total cost. And like Piff said, you start getting domino issues. A developer could afford to buy a truckload of special width insulation, but for a few rolls...?
Ok, now what are the yellow marks on stanley tape for?
They keep them little lines from crowdin down to one end of the tape.
TDo not try this at home!
I am a trained professional!
Hey guys look what I can do!
12345678910111213141516171819.2¨
Mr TDo not try this at home!
I am a trained professional!
I can count by three's.
Watch...
3, 6, 9, uh
betcha can't count by 19.2's
;{o).
Excellence is its own reward!
1 diamond, 2 diamond, 3 diamond, .....Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I was referring to the little diamond symbol!
Trouble is you have to change to a custom font (Symbols)and do Alt0168.
Took me about a half hour to figure it out, but I was proud of myself!
I know, I REALLY need a hobby.
TDo not try this at home!
I am a trained professional!
Your logic is right. The savings is not large. In fact, only one room had the span where 19.2" spacing was needed, so I only saved about 3 joists. Not a big savings, but enough for a nice dinner instead of cooking. In my case, insulation was not a consideration because the framing was between the basement and the first floor, so it wasn't to be insulated.
Cool, looks like we pissed you off and I didn't even have to say anything.
On the other hand, I have to admit that I liked >>>
"A subcontractor asked me what the little black diamonds are every 19 3/16" on most if not all tape measurers.
I told him I couldn't believe he didn't know the answer and said that I,d let him think about it for awhile.
So my question is .What are the little black diamonds every 19 3/16" on tapes for?"
That cracked me up, you are very smooth, quick thinking, lol.
Maybe missed same comment earlier, but most of the black marks on my tapes are due to cold process adhesive, paint, or sealing tar.......
Sage is very smooth alright. Here is a story about a Canadian boy who worked in a grocery store in the States.
One day this old man wanted to buy half a head of lettuce and the Canadian boy told him that he had to sell him the whole thing. Upon the insistence of the old man the boy went to see the manager.
"This old jerk wants to buy half a head of lettuce..." Before he could finish he took a hint from the manager and saw that the old man was right behind him. "...and this gentlman wants to buy the other half."
"No problem then." said the manager.
After the old man left with his half a head of lettuce, the manager commented how smart the boy was and asked him where he was from.
"Canada, Sir." the boy replied.
"What makes come down here?"
"Ar, they are all hockey players and tramps up there."
"My wife was from Canada too." the manager said.
"Really? Which team was she with?"
So you can't read, huh? It was answered half a dozen times before you wound up pissed about it not being answered.
You can shoot your helper a little bull but can't take it your self?
8O)
hey T, they didn't have plywood back then.
.
Excellence is its own reward!