Trouble finding a heat pump solution in New Hampshire
redfeo2
| Posted in Energy, Heating & Insulation on
I write this post out of sheer frustration because after getting about 7 HVAC quotes, each of them recommending completely different (and equally terrible) solutions, we don’t know where to turn for help. Here’s the back story:
My husband and I bought a fixer upper a little over a year ago and we’re at the stage where we need to start installing an HVAC system so we don’t roast this summer. Our house was built in 1975 with a major addition added the following year in 1976. We have forced hot water baseboard heat. We live in New Hampshire where it gets very cold in the winters and there are usually 3 or 4 weeks of very hot days in the summer. Ideally, we’d like to find an HVAC system that offers efficient heating as well as cooling.
As I mentioned, we’ve gotten about 7 HVAC quotes. One guy recommended we install mini splits throughout the house and 6 separate condensors on the back side of the house. Maybe this is normal, but it sounded crazy to us. Another guy was worried the line would have to travel too far from the condensor to the mini split in my husband’s office so his solution was for my husband to relocate his office to another room in the house. My head is exploading.
We know installing ductwork into a finished house is very challenging, but we are both pretty handy and are willing to do much of the work ourselves. But some of the work requires a professional: calculating the heating/cooling capacity requirements and possibly dealing with the freon. It would be great if this professional could also help us figure out what system to install, but based on our experience it seems to be asking too much. I don’t mean to sound snarky, I’m just so very very frustrated.
We’ve used Angie’s List, Googled our brains out, and basically have come up empty. My husband has spend days researching the myriad of HVAC options and it seems Canada and California are light years ahead of New Hampshire in this department. We’ve reached out to a few placed in Massachusetts, who seem to offer more cutting edge solutions, but none of them will do business in NH.
I know it’s not possible for anyone on this forum to tell us what we need to do without seeing our house. I guess I’m just wondering if anyone can recommend any resources for finding competent professionals.
Replies
Hey there,
Why are you looking to add another heat source if you already have the hot water? Are you really just wanting AC, but thinking (being told) it makes sense to switch to hot air since you would be installing duct work and an air handler for the AC?
I would ask around your area about who is the best, most knowledgable HVAC guy around and ask him/her what he/she would do if it was his/her own house. Adding AC in a finished house is fairly disruptive with a conventional system. This is why most guys are probably suggesting mini-splits. I live and work in New England so I know AC is much appreciated some summers. It may make sense to just add AC to the bedrooms where it really matters and is usually fairly straightforward if you have attic access. Tell us more about your house and what it is you really want - sounds like AC is your need, not both heat and AC?
One problem is that when you say you're willing to do much of the work yourself, many contractors will run in the other direction. It's not that you aren't perfectly capable and willing, it's just that they've been burned before -- if not actually getting the work done then coordinating schedules, figuring out who pays for what, etc.
Further compounded by having an existing hot water system. If you had forced air already this would be a snap.
And I'm guessing that few contractors out there have experience installing completely new ductwork in an existing house.
There is an excellent site called Ecorenovator.org/forum that has experts that will be happy to give you unlimited free advice, probably some folks form NH also with local knowledge. The folks there have done it ALL DIY and know more than 95% of the 'pros'.
Forget the pro HVAC guys, although the mini-split was good suggestions by one of your contacts. Many pro HVAC guys think they are little gods and the average joe a moron, insane markups.
Easy to do mini-split. You will need to buy a decent vacuum pump and gauge set (<$150 total on e-bay if you watch and search).
Keep your hot water system. I'd guess yu only need 2 or 3 mini-splits unless you keep all your indoor house doors closed all the time.
Use the mini-split for heat only when ouutside temperature over about 40F.
Go on-line to get your mini-splits, should be around $1000 or less each for 19 SEER or over for 24,000 BTU. Get inverter units (ones that electronically drive the compressor motors at different speeds).
You likely can get by with just 2 or 3 of them, judiciously located.
I took a chance and bought a chinese 'klimaire' (name was unknown to me at the time) off ebay for $880 2 years ago for son's office. It has worked flawlessly and was surprised how quiet it is. Appear to be a Haier or similar that a guy in FL bought a few hunderd of off alibaba and reselling, making a profit even at $880 apparently. Pros sell similar for $2K plus installation!.
All you need to know for DIY of the mini-split is follow the mfg nstructions, be sure to oil the flares with refrigerant oil before torquing. Pull a < 500 micron vacuum on the system for a few hours or overnight, making sure of no leaks, before you open the refrigerant valve on the outside unit.
To see how many units you need, there is a Wash state university spread sheet that will very accurately size your heating or AC requirements. Just google 'WSU energy worksheet' or 'WSU energy program'. You can pick an eastern WA location that has climate similar to NH.
PS:
You could also go to Breaktime 3 on Delphi forums, folks there will give DIY advice also.
If you do take any advice here, there, or ecorenovator, be sure to follow up for any specifics you are doubtfull of, and by all means, give us all some feedback when you decide and start work.
If you want to be talked down to and told you are morons for even considering DIY HVAC, go to HVAC-talk.com <G>
Hey Red, you guys decide to do anything other than punt?
Could the Pros be ... Right?
"Additions" are nearly always the source of all manner of compromises. From finishing a basement to adding a floor, there's very little of the original house that is prepared for the added load.
Extending the baseboard heat? Chances are the piping is totally inadequate and poorly run for the addition to simply be 'tacked on to' it. I suspect the boiler is also too small.
Mini-splits are a very good, and efficient way, to condition added spaces. Using several separate units is a good deal cheaper than trying to serve several 'inside' parts with a single 'outside' part.
Keep in mind that mini-splits usually ARE heat pumps, with additional heating strips built in. You'll need those in New Hampshire!
Apparently punted?
Hi Everyone, Thanks for taking the time to respond to my question. We're still trying to decide the best coarse of action, but we're leaning towards doing it ourselves, especially after what junkhound suggested. I'll keep you all posted.
Thanks for the update.