Working at my parents’ place at the moment. . . Planning on laying a hardwood floor, at some point. There are some troublesome squeaks in the subfloor.
Problem is, the squeaks are quite obviously between the joists. The subfloor is 5/8 T&G, screwed (not glued) every 4″. However, if I bounce a little on the floor, I can only get it to squeak if I’m right in the middle of two joists, and at a T&G joint between two sheets.
The subfloor seems consistently tight and well-attached to the joists.
There are a lot of these squeaks, so I think that – for whatever reason – the tongues and grooves aren’t mating nicely.
Is my only option to add blocking from below? There are return air ducts in the way of a couple.
Edited 2/6/2008 6:39 pm ET by Biff_Loman
Edited 2/6/2008 6:40 pm ET by Biff_Loman
Replies
I guess I could cut it open from the top.
I'll reply just to get things rolling: Could you drill holes from the top and squirt (or inject) some glue or adhesive in between the layers and then screw the layers together with screws from above?
Are you sure it's in the T&G? Could they possibly coming from the bridging?
The fact that it only happens when you apply the load to the subfloor between the joists sugges to me that the ply is deflecting there. As it does, it slides a bit horizontally across the joists adjacent to that space, a connection that should have been glued to prevent this from happening.
Good though - because since it is screwed, it will not be too hard to remove screws and inject glue, then re-screw it off again.
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It helps a little if you drive screws in to fasten the layers (assuming more than one) together. Find the shortest screw you can that still has a bare shaft for a half inch or so.
But I've been fighting squeeks in our kitchen floor, in prep of a new layer of vinyl, and not having much luck with a couple of spots.
I'm considering boring some holes and pouring in glue.
Several people have mentioned or implied layers as though there are two different subfloors layered up. I don't see that in your OP here. is ther a second layer?
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Just the one layer.
Oh, my bad...forget what I said before. How about brushing talcum powder into the joints between boards? That's supposed to reduce the friction and stop the squeaking.
How do you re-brush it five years from now? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Good question. I guess you hope it stays put enough to last longer. I suppose if you want a truly sqeak-free floor, you take ap the old boards and replace with T&G glued and screwed plywood.
He already stated that the squeaks seem to be isolated to the tongues. R and R ing everything seems like overkill because the tongues are not necessary at all: any of them. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I'm not trying to argue with you, cutting the tongues is an excellent idea and so that's what he should do. Was just offering an alternative from something i read--I suppose you are right that the squeaks would come back. Cutting the tongues is a quick, relatively easy and permanent solution.
sorry.I had to do that with NOVY today. I gotta stop posting.... Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
No problem.
I bought a new faucet today (crummy Delta needs springs and cups about quarterly and I got sick of it, so bought a one handle Moen) and on way to buy it, punch garage door closer after I back out of drive and the door goes down, but then won't stay down. So, get back with the new faucet and freeze my fingers off adjusting the garage door, track, rollers, etc. Of course it's the coldest today that it's been all week. Got that done (at least for the time being) and went to take out the old faucet. Had to finally take off the top of the lav, with the basin as one unit, break one of the plastic "nuts" to get the old faucet off (other nut eventually spun off after I used a screwdriver punded with a hammer to break it free and get it turning). Then, of course, nothing in the drain kit is made for the situation I have, so it's been one frustrating day! (And it's a miracle that I managed to get the story out without foul language! (but I don't need to add being kicked off the web site to my day!))
I know the feeling! Plumbing and me don't mix. I'm basking in 80 degree weather (yesterday) so I want you to know I feel a little sorry for you, but since you know where the warm weather is...it's your own fault for staying there LOL! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I have used 3" deck screws - the ones that don't have threads the first 1" under the head. I used a drywall screwgun with the collar removed. I put a little bee's wax on the screws and sunk them into the subfloor on 6" centers where the floor squeeked. I did this in a 3,000SF ranch before the owner installed new carpet. This worked well for my situation. The subfloor was plywood over dimentional lumber joists.
Isolate the exact spot on the t and g and run a saw blade through it.
The t&g system was specifically created to be a one subfloor system for carpeting. Your layer of hardwood flooring won't care if you have a few joints that aren't t&ged.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Hoo ha! That's the ticket! Yeah, that should work like a charm.Should I cut the guard off the saw first? Har har, j/k man! :-D
Edited 2/7/2008 6:26 pm ET by Biff_Loman
Jim's way works to cut thru the tounge and groove.
Lots of T&G ply and osb is supposed to be glued at the joint with construction adhesive then assembled for this very reason.
I have seen people thin down wood glue with water and pour into the joint and let set for 24-48 hours. Otherwise, your idea of blocking from below works too.
Put construction glue on piece of 2x4 or 5/4x4 and push it up into place.
You can just toe nail it into the joists to hold it up and stay off till the glue sets and you should be aok. Screwing from above is like putting on a belt and suspenders. Good but probably not necessary.
I don't know that the t&g's are "supposed" to be glued. In fact, that would negate the drain holes that are purposely included in Advantech.The invention of the tongue and groove system was designed to create a floor system that didn't flex down when walked on over carpet. There's no reason to have a connected system if a hardwood floor is being layed. Think of the millions of homes where the hardwood was layed over board subfloors. You don't see the joints telegraphing through those do you? We just worked on a hardwood floor installed without any subfloor at all! It was laid over the joists and the end buts were floating! I didn't discover this when we were buying it till we tore into it a bit. That hardwood floor is now our subfloor. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I've seen Oak on joists, Oak on 3/4" pine T&G and many were fine. Some had squeeks here and there.
I also built lots and lots of homes with 5/8" T&G OSB with joists 16" OC and some areas widened to 20" for plumbing. Our spec was gluing the T&G and we rarely had problems. If a framer cheated with glue, we would sometimes have squeeks.
I am betting that the oak would bridge the T&G and take away much of the flex which would take away the squeek but no guarantee.
I am not talking gluing the Oak T&G, just the subfloor.
If the squeak is in the tongue, I'm guaranteeing that it will be gone if you run the say through it and create a 1/8" gap. It will never return. Structurally, it's not a problem because the need for the toungue is absent if hardwood is going to be run over it. I lived in a house with 5/8" t and g over 2x8's 16" oc. I put a mud base and ceramic tile over it. It was fine before and after. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I agree that your method would work, no problem.
Some people might rather take the longer route just cause they are not comfortable with your method.