FHB Logo Facebook LinkedIn Email Pinterest Twitter X Instagram Tiktok YouTube Plus Icon Close Icon Navigation Search Icon Navigation Search Icon Arrow Down Icon Video Guide Icon Article Guide Icon Modal Close Icon Guide Search Icon Skip to content
Subscribe
Log In
  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Restoration
  • Videos
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House
  • Podcast
Log In

Discussion Forum

Discussion Forum

Truck posi-traction conversion?

mmoogie | Posted in Tools for Home Building on January 8, 2009 08:07am

I made the huge mistake of buying my last truck not realizing it didn’t have posi-traction. I have lots of trouble getting stuck in the winter.

It’s a 2006 Dodge 2500 4WD manual transmission. I asked the dealer if it’s possible to change it to Posi. He says no. Something to do with the gear ratios. Mine is 3.73, most posi are 3.55 or something like that, and the transfer case ratio for the the 4WD comes into play as well.

Then he mentioned something about an aftermarket conversion called an air-lock or something like that which might work. Does anyone know anything about this?

Steve

Reply
  • X
  • facebook
  • linkedin
  • pinterest
  • email
  • add to favorites Log in or Sign up to save your favorite articles

Replies

  1. cudavid | Jan 08, 2009 08:26pm | #1

    air locker, detroit lockers, all can be retrofitted,  get a 4x4 magazine and read up all the ads, call a few and ask,  the ring gear carrier needs to be changed usually, then the ring and pinoion depth reset, can be costly, and need a person who has a clue doing it. may be better looiknbg for a used rear w/ righ gears from a salvage yard that has the loking diff already.

    dave

  2. BoJangles | Jan 08, 2009 08:43pm | #2

    I think you would be better off just trading your whole rear axle assembly with a salvage yard for a posi unit of the correct ratio if that is a possibility.

    I don't think Dodge has the same setup as GM.  I believe the Dodge is a typical posi unit and doesn't actually lock up both axles.

    The conversion kits do lock both axles.

    Either way, that was an expensive mistake, and I know what you are talking about because I did the same thing on my first 4wd truck.



    Edited 1/8/2009 12:44 pm ET by BoJangles

    1. McMark | Jan 08, 2009 09:01pm | #3

      ARB air lockers

       

      http://www.arbusa.com/Products/Air-Lockers/10.aspx

      1. rjgogo | Jan 09, 2009 02:23am | #12

        I have ARBs front and rear in my Jeep. Let me tell you, you don't want to use them in the snow. Definitely not the front ever on road and not even the rear alone, unless you are off the road already. Off road however they rock. Careful with the lunch box locker as well in snow. Unpredictable results when they lock and unlock. The posis usually wear out after 50K miles or so as they are done with clutch packs usually.

        1. BoJangles | Jan 09, 2009 03:09am | #13

          That's right....those things are not made for the road.

    2. User avater
      mmoogie | Jan 08, 2009 09:12pm | #4

      Well, the truck was dirt cheap. I've been looking into just getting a new truck for a variety of reasons, but I actually got a better deal on the 06 in dec of 05 than I've been able to scare up on an 08 now. Hard to believe.Steve

      1. frammer52 | Jan 08, 2009 10:21pm | #5

        Steve, I gave up and bought a used truck.  I can't believe the dealers around here act like there is no problem selling vehicles.

        1. User avater
          mmoogie | Jan 08, 2009 10:35pm | #6

          I shopped Ford, Chevy, Dodge. Spent a good deal of time at each dealer, and made it plain that I was buying if the price was right. I had to pester them for follow up. Still the prices are higher than they were last time I bought, plus nobody would give me diddly for trade-in. Ford even said flat out, we don't want your trade.My truck only has 42K on it, so I don't see the point in a used one for my circumstances. I was having electrical problems that they couldn't seem to pin down, but somehow they managed to get fixed as soon as it went out of warranty. Been a good truck otherwise. So now I'm less eager for a new one. The lack of Posi is really annoying me though.Steve

          Edited 1/8/2009 2:36 pm by mmoogie

          1. frammer52 | Jan 08, 2009 10:43pm | #8

            I had the same experience.  I really didn't need a truck, own Jeep and Rav4 already, but wanted one.

            I had the same experience at the dealers I went to.  The HUGE place was the worst!

            I called and emailed dealers in Syracuse and they were blase about dealing.  I wonder about the news.

          2. Pelipeth | Jan 09, 2009 04:06am | #15

            Not to mention only being able to leave (1) one black line when pulling away from the traffic light. What color are your panties.

          3. brownbagg | Jan 09, 2009 06:02am | #16

            I have aussie lockers in mine, installed them myself, simple

          4. rjgogo | Jan 09, 2009 08:54am | #17

            I thought ARB was from AustraliaAgain, you want traction off road, they make two spools of your diffs. Unstoppable off road but really bad on road if you engage on road.

            Edited 1/9/2009 12:55 am by rjgogo

          5. brownbagg | Jan 09, 2009 02:43pm | #19

            yes, but Aussie lockers are a complete different company, nothing to do with arb

  3. Huntertn | Jan 08, 2009 10:38pm | #7

    I would stay away from an Detroit Locker because you may not like the way it drives. I had a Eaton Detroit Locker in a 4x4 truck I owned several years ago and thought is was great for off-road driving but not really the best option for something you plan to drive on the street on a regular basis. If you are wanting a "mechanically locking" differential, I think that your best option would be the Air Locker. Having the ability to turn it off and on is a big plus. But, you would probably be happier with an aftermarket limited slip like the Eaton Detroit "Trutrac". I check Summit Racing and it looks like that make one that will fit your truck - I'm no expert though.

    There are probably other options - this was just what I came up with first. If you have a local offroad shop it might be worth giving them a call.

    Steve

    1. User avater
      mmoogie | Jan 08, 2009 11:47pm | #10

      Thanks. That "truetrac" looks like just the thing. Plus it's a lot less expensive than the air lockers. I'm getting some conflicting information about the axle from the dealer versus what the web site says is the right unit for my vehicle though. Will have to run that to ground...Steve

  4. cussnu2 | Jan 08, 2009 11:29pm | #9

    As long as you don't want to turn corners, you can just pop off the cover and hit it with the welder.

    1. User avater
      Luka | Jan 09, 2009 01:10am | #11

      I've always wondered, exactly WHAT gets welded in the rear end ?I need an explanation with pictures.

      1. User avater
        BillHartmann | Jan 09, 2009 03:50am | #14

        "WHAT gets welded in the rear end "Please this is a PG rated forum..
        William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe

      2. rjgogo | Jan 09, 2009 08:57am | #18

        You weld the spider gears. Turns the diff into a spoolHere are your pictureshttp://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=welded%20spider%20gears&um=1ie=UTF-8&sa=Ntab=wiYou can also do a search on Lincoln Lockers. You know Lincoln, not good old Abe but the popular maker of the tombstone welder.

        Edited 1/9/2009 1:09 am by rjgogo

        1. User avater
          Luka | Jan 10, 2009 11:06pm | #34

          Thank you.

  5. User avater
    BossHog | Jan 09, 2009 04:32pm | #20

    http://justdifferentials.com/

    1. User avater
      mmoogie | Jan 09, 2009 05:09pm | #21

      Thanks! That looks like the go-to-place.

  6. USAnigel | Jan 10, 2009 05:58am | #22

    I understand your problem but before you mod your drive train look into better tires.

    My F150 had Goodyears and I never had good traction in the wet, My PT cruiser Goodyears and same problem, I now have a Sebring with Goodyears and no wet traction.

    Changed the F150 to Continentals and its a world better and the F150 has a Posi rear. Sebring is next! tirerack.com is a good place to check for reviews.

    1. BoJangles | Jan 10, 2009 06:35am | #23

      That's a very good point.   I changed to Firestones and they are much better than any tire I've ever had on the trucks.

      Better traction and better wear.

  7. jimbotg | Jan 10, 2009 07:41am | #24

    you'r dealer is lost any auto part's store can fix you up and there are more options then ARB air lockers.that said ARB lockers can be installed in both front and back ,as you hit bad snow,mud,ice you push a button and it starts a small air compeser and it lock both front and back or you could just lock the back.i have this in my truck and it work great.best of all when get out of the bad situation you turn them off and you no longer have the added wear and tear that you would from a true locker.ARB is well know in the 4wheel drive off road play ground of rock crawling and such.there web site will get you to a close by dealer.good luck

  8. User avater
    deadmanmike | Jan 10, 2009 08:23am | #25

    Here's my $.02 again. Actually it's more like $2.

    1) If you're looking at tires, BFG A/T are a home run. Outstanding dry/wet/snow traction, quiet, wear like iron.

    2) Posi or no has NOTHING to do with what ratio is in the rear or the transfer case. That's the dealer's way of saying they don't have a clue. Your truck probably only came equipped with the factory posi with that ratio, because it was a multi-part towing or traction package. It has 0 to do with what will work. 

    3) Lockers are generally a little rough to live with, except auto lockers like the Powertrax. Posis are there all day, every day, and can have their own drawbacks.

    During normal conditions, the rear wheels need to be able to turn different speeds around turns, and the open(spider-gear) differential allows this and still allows torque transmission. Unfortunately, if one wheel breaks traction it just spins away and all torque is lost through that rotation.

    A posi adds mechanical drag to the wheels turning different speeds, so if one breaks traction some torque is still applied to the other wheel. The good: very smooth, and always on -operator friendly. The bad: It's always on, and instead of spinning one wheel on wet roads, you're sideways, and requires replacement of entire carrier. The detroit True-Trac does this with helical gears instead of wearable plates or cones, and is excellent.

    A locker mechanically locks the axles together, doing everything a posi does but better...and worse. Also requires replacement of complete carrier. Edit: They also usually engage/disengage harshly.

    A selectable locker is one that you decide when to engage, and is operated either electrically or by air pressure. The good: no locker when you don't want it. The bad: air lockers are expensive, complex(requires onboard compressor, etc) and notoriously unreliable, and the electrics aren't cheap either.

    Finally, auto-lockers like the Powertrax/Lock-Right are a compromise between posi and locker. In normal conditions, it's a plain old open differential. Under load, they lock. They engage only under load, so if you hit ice they disengage themselves. They are available for most axles, and fit into the existing carrier after you remove the spider gears(carrier and gears stay in the truck, they take about 1-1.5hrs to install).   

    If you take a look under your truck, you can usually ID the axle by the shape of the diff cover. Your truck probably has an AAM 10.5 or 11.5 rear axle, but I can't see it from here. :) If it's got the Allison trans, it's most likely the 11.5.

    Oh, 1 more thing. When replacing the entire carrier, there is no need for a complete ring and pinion setup -because the pinion to carrier centerline distance has not changed. It's just a matter of setting the backlash(easy).



    Edited 1/10/2009 12:25 am by deadman1

    1. BoJangles | Jan 10, 2009 04:18pm | #26

       Posi or no has NOTHING to do with what ratio is in the rear or the transfer case. That's the dealer's way of saying they don't have a clue. Your truck probably only came equipped with the factory posi with that ratio, because it was a multi-part towing or traction package. It has 0 to do with what will work. 

      What???  I'm sure that what the dealer told him was that the front axle drive ratio must match the rear axle drive ratio. 

      You can't just throw any rear end ratio you want into a four wheel drive vehicle.  If the front and rear aren't the same, you will snap a few critical pieces in half.

      1. User avater
        mmoogie | Jan 10, 2009 07:10pm | #28

        Thanks for all the helpful information everyone.Yes, part of my problem is highway tires with 40K miles on them. They were passable for the first couple of winters, but not cutting it this year. So new Bridgestone Dueler A/T Revos are en-route as we speak from Tirerack.com. As an aside...I like to try and give my local merchants a stab at coming close to online or big-box prices on stuff, and will pay a little more for things locally if they will make an effort to meet me at least halfway. So I called the the tire dealer and asked if he wanted to take a stab at it, and he said sure, got the OK from corporate, only to find the tires I wanted were on back order, and they had no idea how long it would take for them to get them. So they will be on my doorstep from Tirerack on Monday.There is no Eaton Detroit Locker Truetrac for my 10.5" 14-bolt, but there is a an American Axle OEM helical posi unit at that web site BossHog posted for $575. I'm thinking I'll probably go that way. Any idea what it'll cost to have a speed shop install that?The Air lockers cost nearly 1000 dollars, and are more than I really need. I just want brainless and dependable. My previous dodge 1500 with posi and decent tires never got stuck. I could drive out of just about anything. That's all I'm after.Steve

        1. User avater
          deadmanmike | Jan 10, 2009 08:35pm | #30

          There is no Eaton Detroit Locker Truetrac for my 10.5" 14-bolt, but there is a an American Axle OEM helical posi unit at that web site BossHog posted for $575. I'm thinking I'll probably go that way. Any idea what it'll cost to have a speed shop install that?

          I'd figure about 3 hours x labor rate, + fluid, silicone, and likely carrier bearings as well. Theoretically you can re-use the carrier bearings, but they're a pain to remove without damaging them, and at $40-50 each I just replace them.

          EDIT: Just a quick check, dodge carrier(side) bearings for your 10.5 are $25 each.

          Edited 1/10/2009 12:43 pm by deadman1

      2. User avater
        deadmanmike | Jan 10, 2009 07:53pm | #29

         

         Posi or no has NOTHING to do with what ratio is in the rear or the transfer case. That's the dealer's way of saying they don't have a clue. Your truck probably only came equipped with the factory posi with that ratio, because it was a multi-part towing or traction package. It has 0 to do with what will work. 

        What???  I'm sure that what the dealer told him was that the front axle drive ratio must match the rear axle drive ratio. 

        You can't just throw any rear end ratio you want into a four wheel drive vehicle.  If the front and rear aren't the same, you will snap a few critical pieces in half.

         

        What??? LOL

        Whoa, slow down and actually read the posts you're commenting on before you start lecturing me (EDIT: ...on automotive matters. On building, I could always use some lecturing). That's NOT what I said, nor is it what HE said his dealer said.

         

        Edited 1/10/2009 11:55 am by deadman1

        1. brownbagg | Jan 10, 2009 08:41pm | #31

          on some carrier, if you go too big on the gears, the edge of the gear will hit the locker, so there is a need to either change the gear ratio or to a different carrier.. it not a big deal most people just change the carrier. on a detriot eaton and other the carrier is replace anyway, it depends on the actual size of the ring gear. Ratio has nothing to do with it

          1. User avater
            deadmanmike | Jan 10, 2009 08:53pm | #32

            on some carrier, if you go too big on the gears, the edge of the gear will hit the locker, so there is a need to either change the gear ratio or to a different carrier.. it not a big deal most people just change the carrier. on a detriot eaton and other the carrier is replace anyway, it depends on the actual size of the ring gear. Ratio has nothing to do with it

             

            Yep, pretty much.

            The ratio determines the actual physical ring gear and pinion size within the parameters of the axle size(8.75, 10.5, 11.5, etc), but the carriers/posis are offered to fit different ratios, so it's just a matter of selecting the correct one for the ratio you have.

            At any rate, we're in agreement that having a particular ratio does not preclude installing a posi or locker in it.  

        2. BoJangles | Jan 10, 2009 10:42pm | #33

          What I'm telling you is that.....that's probably what the dealer told him and the OP is the guy who didn't understand the whole thing...probably not enough to clear it up with the dealer.  The dealer knew the front and rear ratios had to be matched and that you couldn't just throw any rear end ratio in there for the heck of it.

          You assume the dealer is an idiot.  I assume he knows what he's talking about and the poster didn't quite understand him.

          I think you should have explained the facts to the OP, instead of telling him the dealer was a bozo.  No offense to you, but you didn't really help the poor guy much.

           

           

          1. User avater
            deadmanmike | Jan 10, 2009 11:27pm | #35

            Look dude, the OP was pretty clear in what he stated.

            He asked the dealer about putting in a posi, the dealer is the one that brought up ratios, because he has no concept that you can put a different carrier in a rear. All he knows is that the factory parts guide says he can order a replacement posi, but that it came with a different ratio, and the rest is just barking up the wrong tree to start with.

            I spent the better part of 10 years as a dealer tech, the last 7 of which as a dealer master tech. Dealer techs, service advisors, service managers, parts managers 99% of the time have no idea about anything that is not factory equipment...and only from the manufacturer they are working for. 99% of the time, they cannot think outside the box -that's not their expertise and experience, and most techs period get the what-fits-what, but not the why. Forget parts and mgmt. The general philosophy in dealerships is that if it's not factory equipment, it's no good.

            There are -thank god- exceptions to this, but I've seen this scenario played out hundreds of times. 

            You're entitled to your opinion as to the usefullness of my post.

            I actually: Still think I read his correctly, and If anything posted too much info.

             

             

             

            Edited 1/10/2009 3:28 pm by deadman1

          2. BoJangles | Jan 11, 2009 12:04am | #36

            Well....he told you what he has in his truck.  Instead of blasting off at how dumb you thought the dealer was, why didn't you look up some information and say "here's the particular unit I would recommend for your situation"  ?  Now that would have been more helpful!

            BTW,  does anyone make a unit that will convert modern, standard four wheel drive front hubs, to manual locking/unlocking front hubs?  Or is that impossible? There is so much more wear and tear on front ends, not to mention wasted fuel, caused by not being able to disengage the front hubs like in "the old days".

          3. User avater
            deadmanmike | Jan 11, 2009 12:23am | #37

            Well....he told you what he has in his truck.  Instead of blasting off at how dumb you thought the dealer was, why didn't you look up some information and say "here's the particular unit I would recommend for your situation"  ?  Now that would have been more helpful!

            Oh for christ's sake, let it go.

            #1 All he gave was year and model, not axle size and ratio.

            #2 I gave him more than enough info to make his own decision based on his needs, as well as my opinions of the various options.

            If he had come back with more info, and perhaps said he was leaning towards a locker, which one do you recommend, I would have gladly obliged.

             

            BTW,  does anyone make a unit that will convert modern, standard four wheel drive front hubs, to manual locking/unlocking front hubs?  Or is that impossible? There is so much more wear and tear on front ends, not to mention wasted fuel, caused by not being able to disengage the front hubs like in "the old days".

            Yes. Year, make, model?

          4. BoJangles | Jan 11, 2009 12:54am | #38

            GM / Chevy Pickups ....2500 series......Models since 2005.......don't want a part#, just an idea where to look.

          5. User avater
            deadmanmike | Jan 11, 2009 01:25am | #39

            Bad news/good news: There is none/you don't have to!

            The late chevys are using an independant front axle comprised of cv shafts and stub shafts, that spline into the spider gears inside a pumkin in the center.

            When you select 2wd, 2 things happen. 1) the xfer case stops driving the front driveshaft, and 2) the actuator in the front pumpkin disconnects the pass side axle in the pumpkin. The drv side axle just spins the spider gears inside the carrier, and the carrier, ring, pinion and front driveshaft stop tuning.

            On top of that, there really is no way to disconnect the front wheel from their cv shafts, and even if you could...gains would be negligible since they're only spinning the cv shafts and spider gears anyway.

            Early in GM IFS, they were using a thermal front axle actuator that was problematic, but your 2005 should have an electric unit.

            Edited 1/10/2009 5:25 pm by deadman1

          6. BoJangles | Jan 11, 2009 02:22am | #40

            We have a 1995 Chevy 2500 work truck.  It has about 100k on it now and runs like a top.  The only costly problem we have with it is that it eats front axle seals like clockwork....every 20,000 miles since the day it was born.

            Axle seal is $6.00.....labor to change seals on both sides, around $350.  We have not had that problem yet on the newer trucks, but those haven't been run that much yet.

            I'm more concerned about the constant maintenance than the savings in gas, but I'm sure that adds up too.

            The '95 has a thermal actuator and you are right, it is a PITA!

          7. User avater
            deadmanmike | Jan 11, 2009 10:25am | #43

            We have a 1995 Chevy 2500 work truck.  It has about 100k on it now and runs like a top.  The only costly problem we have with it is that it eats front axle seals like clockwork....every 20,000 miles since the day it was born.

            Axle seal is $6.00.....labor to change seals on both sides, around $350.  We have not had that problem yet on the newer trucks, but those haven't been run that much yet.

            I'm more concerned about the constant maintenance than the savings in gas, but I'm sure that adds up too.

            The '95 has a thermal actuator and you are right, it is a PITA!

             

            Wow! every 20k? Yeesh...that's crazy.

            High sand/dust conditions maybe? If there's no unusual operating environment, I'd be seriously looking at a) the vent for plugging, b) the stubs that the seals ride on for damage, and c) there are fine roller bearings that can wear and allow the stubs to move around.

            The only thing is, all of those would likely leak alot sooner than 20k... are they being replaced with GM seals or ? For $6 ea, I doubt it.

            GM upgraded the seals in the late 90's for the s-10 series trucks and I think the fullsize also. It's a much better design, and they also do offer an upgraded electric front axle actuator that retrofits into your axle. -No more slooooow engagement in cold weather.

             

          8. BoJangles | Jan 11, 2009 04:32pm | #45

            When I first brought the truck into the dealer at 20k for warranty work on the axle seals, I asked them if this was some kind of freak occurance, because I had never heard of such a thing before.

            The mechanic said, " I'll see you at 40k," and he was right.

            All GM parts and work.  No unusual driving conditions.  Apparently just a poor design that was peculiar to a few years.

          9. User avater
            deadmanmike | Jan 11, 2009 11:31pm | #47

            When I first brought the truck into the dealer at 20k for warranty work on the axle seals, I asked them if this was some kind of freak occurance, because I had never heard of such a thing before.

            The mechanic said, " I'll see you at 40k," and he was right.

            All GM parts and work.  No unusual driving conditions.  Apparently just a poor design that was peculiar to a few years.

             

            Yeah, it's pretty common. I know they went to and upgraded 2-piece seal for the s-10s, but I don't recall the fullsize changes...maybe an oil deflector behind the seal...

            Anyways, 20k still sounds too frequent. Y'know, they generally are a bit weepy...not a dripping, losing large amounts of fluid leaky, but weepy. Also, the vent for that pumpkin is directly over the driver's side seal...seen more than a few disconnected/cracked/poorly clamped vent hoses dripping onto the seal area...looking just like a bad seal. Normally the hose is routed up and is clipped into the fan shroud way up at the top of the radiator. There's a vented cap on it...make sure it's breathing.

            If anything, it's usually the passenger side seal that starts leaking first, and alot of times it's due to the needle bearing in the extension tube being worn.

            If you're so inclined, reach under there and try to move the CV flange around. It should/may move in and out a teeny bit, but it should not have any side play at all.

          10. BoJangles | Jan 12, 2009 04:54am | #48

            Thanks,  I'll check that stuff.  I've got a nice,warm shop and it's going to be -10 or worse most of the week.

             

          11. User avater
            mmoogie | Jan 11, 2009 02:26am | #41

            Again, I appreciate all the useful information from everyone.I'm sorry I wasn't clearer in my original post. I usually am too wordy in my initial posts about things, and I think it sometimes is better to throw out a brief description and wait for some discourse to further the discussion.I dind't know much about the topic before I started looking into it, so I was intentionally a little vague.The service manager did indeed say that what mattered was that the front and the rear have the same ratio. That I understood. He then said that the factory posi setups were on 3.55 ratio setups, only available on the "Power Wagon" package, and not an option at all on my model, at which point a tech walked by and said he was wrong, posi was always an option available on any model. I think the service manager was confusing locking differentials, which may indeed have been an option on the power wagon package, with limited-slip differentials.In any event, he thought it would be hard to find one for a 3.73 rear end in a junk yard that had posi in it though, and that there was no factory upgrade I could get for it. He suggested air-lockers as an alternative. So I came to the experts here for help, which you've all very graciously provided, and I thank you for it.I eventually determined that my rear end is a chrysler 10.5" 14-bolt unit. AAM makes an oem helical-gear posi unit for it for 575 bucks. I just have to find a good mechanic to do the install for me.I'm not a gear-head. I used to work on my own cars when I was a kid, but I no longer have any interest in doing this stuff myself. The most extensive thing I've done was a clutch replacement on my 69 AMX, but that was over 30 years ago. I came to the conclusion many years ago that I was better served by leaving it to people who knew what they were doing and had the tools and facilities to get it done with a minimum of down time on the vehicle. Thanks again,Steve

          12. jimbotg | Jan 11, 2009 08:15am | #42

            what the dealer did not tell you was the axel ratio does not matter, you can put a locker in any axle and that is that .........a locker is nothing more then spings and cogs that mash together and spin both tires.the gearing does not matter enless toy go to bigger tires.any shop thet works on 4/4s can set you up in 3 to4 hours  and it sould cost about 500.00 to 750.00 depending on the type,a air locker or machanical one the differance is the air one you can shut off and have limited slip that it.

          13. User avater
            deadmanmike | Jan 11, 2009 11:14am | #44

            No problem Steve, and thanks for clarifying. Yes, the Power Wagon model included front and rear selectable electric lockers from the factory. IIRC, there was a difference with the axle shafts used in the factory setup too, so just dropping the e-locker in from a PW wasn't quite that simple.

            You can see where I was going with the general inexperience/inability to think beyond what was a factory option, or factory based. To them, it's either in the factory parts book, or in a junk yard truck that matches yours. The factory only offered this with that ratio, so that's all there is. Of course the F and R ratios must match, but that's only a concern if you're changing them...which you don't have to, to start with!

            There are a multitude of choices available outside that box.

            Air lockers are nothing but trouble. ARB buys lots of ad space in the 4wd mags, and sponsors 4wd events, so they get lots of press and look sexy in the magazines.

            That AAM helical posi/locker you've picked is identical to the Eaton/Detroit Truetrac, and I strongly suspect they are related. Detroit developed/owned that design a long time ago.

            At any rate, it's an excellent piece. Very heavy duty, and gives you the best of both worlds in that it's as smooth as a posi, yet it almost locks totally up like a locker. It also doesn't require posi additives in the fluid, and has no clutches/cones to wear out.

            I just know you'll like it.

            The closest shop to you I could recommend is OK 4wd in Washington Twp, NJ. I don't know anybody closer to you, but it's a relatively easy job. Your local 4wd or transmission shops are the best bet.

            If I still owned a speed/4wd shop in Newton NJ, I'd do it myself!

             

  9. artworks | Jan 10, 2009 05:55pm | #27

    I installed a limited slip in my first 4 x 4,  1974 Chev, 350 auto, full time . 3.73 Then I got another truck , 1983 F250 460 4 sd. 3.54, The chev would go in 2 wd, where the Ford would have trouble in 4 x, rear end broke, I got limited slip for it ( Dana 60 "U", light duty 1 ton) was hard to find but got used one. ( Rider Racing, Randy' s Ring and  Pinon, could supply but US $ put the price out of reach for this Canuck) Like night and day can't count on the times that I didn't need to go to 4 x .  Current truck, 1995 GMC 4x4 6.5 Diesel has 3.73 Limited slip. I would never get a truck without Limited slip. Only down side, got to watch how you power into a turn, truck wants to go straight ! ( don't ask how I know, lol )

  10. danski0224 | Jan 11, 2009 06:52pm | #46

    I would second the suggestion of better tires.

    I had a 2wd Ford F250 and I never got stuck in snow with a set of Michelin LTX AT tires on it.

    I also had (later) a 03 Astro van with factory posi and never got stuck- but the van had a few hundred pounds of shelving and stuff above the rear axle at all times. Never noticed any odd handling with the posi in rain or snow.

    Something not mentioned so far is tire diameters. If you have a clutch type posi unit and the tires on each side are not the same OD, you will fry the clutches. Fastest way to do this is to have a flat and put the spare on... probaly fun with a locker, too. 

    Snow tires really work- unfortunately you need the space for 2 sets of rims/tires.

  11. dpbellus | Jan 20, 2009 06:06am | #49

    I just read your post, haven't read all the responses, so sorry if someone already suggested this.  I had a 2 wheel drive Chevy without positraction.  I installed a powertrax and traction was much better.  I understand that they are now owned by Richmond Gear. 

    If you google "powertrax" you can probably find their site.  Last time I looked at it they had videos of trucks comparing standard differentials with their unit.  I can say from experience that their unit works very well.

     

Log in or create an account to post a comment.

Sign up Log in

Become a member and get full access to FineHomebuilding.com

Video Shorts

Categories

  • Business
  • Code Questions
  • Construction Techniques
  • Energy, Heating & Insulation
  • General Discussion
  • Help/Work Wanted
  • Photo Gallery
  • Reader Classified
  • Tools for Home Building

Discussion Forum

Recent Posts and Replies

  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
View More Create Post

Up Next

Video Shorts

Featured Story

Podcast Episode 693: Old-House Hazards, Building Larsen Trusses, AI in Construction

The crew talks about work start times, fire-resistant construction, fixer-uppers, building Larsen trusses, and AI for construction.

Featured Video

A Modern California Home Wrapped in Rockwool Insulation for Energy Efficiency and Fire Resistance

The designer and builder of the 2018 Fine Homebuilding House detail why they chose mineral-wool batts and high-density boards for all of their insulation needs.

Related Stories

  • Podcast Episode 693: Old-House Hazards, Building Larsen Trusses, AI in Construction
  • FHB Podcast Segment: Finding Hazardous Materials in a Fixer-Upper
  • A Classic Paint Sprayer Gets a Thoughtful Refresh
  • Podcast Episode 692: Introduction to Trade Work, Embodied Carbon, and Envelope Improvements

Highlights

Fine Homebuilding All Access
Fine Homebuilding Podcast
Tool Tech
Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20

"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Fine Homebuilding Magazine

  • Issue 332 - July 2025
    • Custom Built-ins With Job-Site Tools
    • Fight House Fires Through Design
    • Making the Move to Multifamily
  • Issue 331 - June 2025
    • A More Resilient Roof
    • Tool Test: You Need a Drywall Sander
    • Ducted vs. Ductless Heat Pumps
  • Issue 330 - April/May 2025
    • Deck Details for Durability
    • FAQs on HPWHs
    • 10 Tips for a Long-Lasting Paint Job
  • Issue 329 - Feb/Mar 2025
    • Smart Foundation for a Small Addition
    • A Kominka Comes West
    • Making Small Kitchens Work
  • Issue 328 - Dec/Jan 2025
    • How a Pro Replaces Columns
    • Passive House 3.0
    • Tool Test: Compact Line Lasers

Fine Home Building

Newsletter Sign-up

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox.

  • Green Building Advisor

    Building science and energy efficiency advice, plus special offers, in your inbox.

  • Old House Journal

    Repair, renovation, and restoration tips, plus special offers, in your inbox.

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters

Follow

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X

Membership & Magazine

  • Online Archive
  • Start Free Trial
  • Magazine Subscription
  • Magazine Renewal
  • Gift a Subscription
  • Customer Support
  • Privacy Preferences
  • About
  • Contact
  • Advertise
  • Careers
  • Terms of Use
  • Site Map
  • Do not sell or share my information
  • Privacy Policy
  • Accessibility
  • California Privacy Rights

© 2025 Active Interest Media. All rights reserved.

Fine Homebuilding receives a commission for items purchased through links on this site, including Amazon Associates and other affiliate advertising programs.

  • Home Group
  • Antique Trader
  • Arts & Crafts Homes
  • Bank Note Reporter
  • Cabin Life
  • Cuisine at Home
  • Fine Gardening
  • Fine Woodworking
  • Green Building Advisor
  • Garden Gate
  • Horticulture
  • Keep Craft Alive
  • Log Home Living
  • Military Trader/Vehicles
  • Numismatic News
  • Numismaster
  • Old Cars Weekly
  • Old House Journal
  • Period Homes
  • Popular Woodworking
  • Script
  • ShopNotes
  • Sports Collectors Digest
  • Threads
  • Timber Home Living
  • Traditional Building
  • Woodsmith
  • World Coin News
  • Writer's Digest
Active Interest Media logo
X
X
This is a dialog window which overlays the main content of the page. The modal window is a 'site map' of the most critical areas of the site. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page.

Main Menu

  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Video
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Popular Topics

  • Kitchens
  • Business
  • Bedrooms
  • Roofs
  • Architecture and Design
  • Green Building
  • Decks
  • Framing
  • Safety
  • Remodeling
  • Bathrooms
  • Windows
  • Tilework
  • Ceilings
  • HVAC

Magazine

  • Current Issue
  • Past Issues
  • Magazine Index
  • Subscribe
  • Online Archive
  • Author Guidelines

All Access

  • Member Home
  • Start Free Trial
  • Gift Membership

Online Learning

  • Courses
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Podcast

More

  • FHB Ambassadors
  • FHB House
  • Customer Support

Account

  • Log In
  • Join

Newsletter

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Follow

  • X
  • YouTube
  • instagram
  • facebook
  • pinterest
  • Tiktok

Join All Access

Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features.

Start Your Free Trial

Subscribe

FHB Magazine

Start your subscription today and save up to 70%

Subscribe

Enjoy unlimited access to Fine Homebuilding. Join Now

Already a member? Log in

We hope you’ve enjoyed your free articles. To keep reading, become a member today.

Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine.

Start your FREE trial

Already a member? Log in

Privacy Policy Update

We use cookies, pixels, script and other tracking technologies to analyze and improve our service, to improve and personalize content, and for advertising to you. We also share information about your use of our site with third-party social media, advertising and analytics partners. You can view our Privacy Policy here and our Terms of Use here.

Cookies

Analytics

These cookies help us track site metrics to improve our sites and provide a better user experience.

Advertising/Social Media

These cookies are used to serve advertisements aligned with your interests.

Essential

These cookies are required to provide basic functions like page navigation and access to secure areas of the website.

Delete My Data

Delete all cookies and associated data