Replies

1. 
   DaveRicheson | Oct 12, 2005 12:29pm | #1

   I'll bump this up , so Boss might see it.

   If you have set enough trusses, you know that those top cord bracing systems are no substitute for proper bracing. I have seen  one total collapse from just running top cord bracing. I got called out on another with the same bracing, but it had a forklift chained to it, so it was only leaning a little out of plumb. Scary stuff when you have to go up in that mess and replumb each truss while the whole shebang is wanting to lay down on you.

   Your truss manufacture should furnish you with a bracing guide sheet. I follow mine rigorously. If you can't get a guide from your supplier, and Boss doesn't see this, e-mail me. I'll send you a copy of mine.

    

   Dave

1. 
   BossHog | Oct 12, 2005 02:14pm | #3

   "...those top cord bracing systems are no substitute for proper bracing."

   Well, yes and no. Those cheap 10' metal folding spacers aren't intended to be used as bracing. But many guys do just that. I've been out on several jobs where those were the only bracing used. (Some of them had fallen over)

   These trusslock thingies *ARE* intended to be used as bracing. They're made much heavier.

   But none of the systems deal with diagonal bracing - It's still very much needed, and often ignored.
   I'm Easy To Please.
   As Long As I Get My Way

2. 
   Bish | Oct 12, 2005 04:32pm | #4

   Dave,
   Yes, we've set tons of trusses. What I'm talking about is using the trusslock tools to temporarily space out the trusses. They come in lengths of 12' and 16', fold out to lock every 2' o.c. truss. You would then nail on your 2x bracing for more support, this tool just does the quicker spacing. You aren't dealing with a 2x4 temp top brace hanging out over the space your next truss has to slide into. The stabilizer metal bracing IS a permanent brace, but as Boss say's you still need all the additional diaganol bracing, etc. which we do according to the manufacturer's spec.
   As to carrying around these folded up trusslock tools, I believe once you are clamped to the first two trusses, you just unfold 2' at a time as you continue to set trusses. The stabilizers aren't too bad to carry around as they stack and they slide onto the top cord of a 2x truss pretty snug. You can easily keep 5-6 within reach, and just have someone below feed up more as you go. Much easier to keep on hand up there than lengths of 2x4.
   I guess I'll find out about the trusslocks anyway, because I just went and ordered a few and will let you know how they workout.

1. 
   BossHog | Oct 12, 2005 04:53pm | #5

   Definitely let us know how they work, would ya ??? I'm real curious about them.I'd also like to see better pics of them All the pics on the website look blurry to me. (Maybe that's deliberate)Ever heard of the truss tamer things I mentioned?
   I'm Not Tense - Just Terribly Alert

2. 
   BossHog | Oct 12, 2005 02:09pm | #2

   I don't personally have any experience with them, and have never seen them. But they look like they'd be handy.

   The biggest drawback I can see is how do you hold a bunch of them while you're climbing around in the trusses?

   I think if you painted a line about 8'6" up from the truss tails, and put the trusslock thingies on that line, you could put up 2 rows of plywood and then have a nice surface to stand on while ya pulled 'em off.

   Here's their website, if anyone is interested:

   http://www.truslock.com/

   .

   There's a sort of similar product out there called the "truss tamer". (But no website that I could find) They have ropes you pull on to lock the trusses together. You could theoretically set trusses with a crane and one guy standing on the floor.

   But again, I've never seen them in use.

   I'm sick of being my wife's arm candy
3. 
   jonblakemore | Oct 12, 2005 07:12pm | #6

   I have not used the Truss Lock but we have used the Simpson truss bracer.
   http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/TSB_PT.html

   Very helpful, well worth it's cost. The alternative for us was to cut a mess of 25-1/2" blocks and nail them up. The truss bracers fit over the chord and you nail off with an 8d.

   Of course, they are not meant to replace proper diagonal bracing, but for bracing to lock the trusses together and keep the spacing consistent, you can't go wrong.

   IIRC they were $1.50 or so at HD. Expensive but the same length of 2x4 costs about half that and the labor savings is significant.

    

   Jon Blakemore

   RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA

4. 
   TLE | Oct 12, 2005 08:42pm | #7

   I first bought some Trusslocks about 8-10 years ago.

   Absloutley love them.

   Especially handy if you are setting trusses by crane, they are out of the way untill you fold it out.

   When I first used them, the crane operator was so impressed with how they worked, he had me order a few sets so that he would have them on hand for his other truss sets.

   I would recommend that you by them in 12' lengths rather then 16' (they get heavy) The price per foot is (was) the same.

   Don't be afraid to buy just a few to get started using them. As you are running them out, you can drop back and nail lineal above them without any layout needed and they fold up from the end you started at, allowing you to leapfrog the along.

   And yes, diagonal bracing as you go along.

   As a side note, I just got a box of odds and ends from a going out of business builder that had 8 sets of 16" on center trusslock that I have no use for. If you know of anybody that can use them - $20 plus shipping takes them.

   Terry

1. 
   marv | Oct 12, 2005 08:55pm | #8

   What do the 12 footers sell for?You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.

   Marv

1. 
   TLE | Oct 12, 2005 10:35pm | #9

   I don't know what currant pricing is right now but they have a toll free # to call:

   (800) 334-9689

    

   Terry

2. 
   Bish | Oct 13, 2005 01:38am | #10

   Terry,Glad to hear from you, sounds like they work as well as I hoped. I've a;ready ordered the 16 footers, but I may go ahead and order some 12's also.

1. 
   Mark | Oct 13, 2005 04:22am | #12

   Well Bish,  now that you've already ordered them I just now saw this thread and my 2 cents worth is this:

   Our crane guy bought these and let us use them.  When you see how they work you are really impressed,  seems like they would greatly improve your speed when setting trusses.  However the truth (as we perceived it)  was that they really didn't save any time,  they were really heavy and cumbersome to have to lug around up there, Let's face it, 2x4s just lean up stay out of the way and are pretty easy to handle.  After using them several times we went back to 2x4s.  they were actually easier and faster for us.  Of course one of our biggest complaints was the fact that most roofs these days are so cut up that you just don't have that many runs of a bunch of same size trusses in a row where truss locks would come in handy. 

   Of course if you are doing long straight roofs your experience might be a positive one.  I hope that is the case." If I were a carpenter"

1. 
   Bish | Oct 13, 2005 02:38pm | #15

   Mark,
   I have to agree with you and Blue that for most house roofs these might not be worth it. The jobs I'm looking to use these on ARE for some huge commercial frame jobs with long straight runs of identical trusses. I neglected to state that in my initial post. One job consists of 5 runs of 40' trusses 90' long, and the other is 3 buildings each over 300' long with 50' trusses. My thinking was to just use these to quickly clamp truss in place and as crane is swinging back, be nailing on our wood bracing. I've done similar temp bracing as Blue describes, but thought this job was worth trying something new. Not a big investment for the size jobs. Thanks for the input tho, that's what I'm looking for.
   Bish

1. 
   floorheater | Oct 13, 2005 05:31pm | #16

   Bish have you ever tried the mitek stabilizers. they have the metal teeth that you just hit like nailing plates and the plywood goes right over them. Very stiff and exact spacing.  available in 16"oc or 24"oc <!----><!---->

    

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2. 
   BossHog | Oct 13, 2005 05:36pm | #17

   I've seen ads for the Mitek brand spacers. We looked at stocking/selling them a while back. But going from memory - Aren't they something like $.80 per piece? We decided they were too expensive, and no one would buy them.
   Bald means never having to say "I'm having a bad hair day."

3. 
   floorheater | Oct 13, 2005 05:50pm | #18

   Boss, we used them on a house we did a while back (6months or so) our supplier set us up with them boxes and boxes of em' about 200.00 for the house  didn't feel that was bad considering how fast they were.

   I have so lousey pictures of it if i could figure out how to get them to post. <!----><!---->

    

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4. 
   BossHog | Oct 13, 2005 05:59pm | #19

   If it ws $200 or the house, do you remember how many pieces there were?If you can email me the pics, I'll post 'em for ya...
   There are days when it takes all you've got just to keep up with the losers

5. 
   floorheater | Oct 13, 2005 06:07pm | #20

   it was 200.00 for the stabilizers not the house, not sure i know how to email you the pics. from here. <!----><!---->

    

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6. 
   floorheater | Oct 13, 2005 08:52pm | #21

   I'm going to try and post these lousey pics.!! <!----><!---->

    

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7. 
   BossHog | Oct 13, 2005 09:14pm | #22

   Dang, were you in a helicopter whan ya took those ???Can't see a lot of detail in the pics. But that looks to be similar to many of the truss jobs I do here.
   When a thought is too weak to be expressed simply, it should be rejected. [Vauvenargues]

8. 
   floorheater | Oct 13, 2005 09:20pm | #23

   thought about using a crane to set all those trusses but it would have been there a week or more. (hope osha isn't listening) used my articulating manlift ,1'strap hooked to the side of the basket. took the pics 50'up when we were done. <!----><!---->

    

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9. 
   Bish | Oct 14, 2005 04:20am | #24

   Yes, we did use the Stabilizers on a 30,000 sq.ft. + 2-story motel a few years ago. I actually mentioned them to the Owner this week and think I may have convinced him to let us use them. My thought was tho, to use the trus lock units in case he wasn't going to ok them. Now I need to figure if it gains me anything to go ahead and use the Truss lock things to rapidly set the truss and have guys right behind throwing on the stabilizers, and diagonal bracing. My crane guy actually moves pretty darn fast, and he keeps us humping along, especially when you have 40-60ft. trusses. They call for quite a few bracing points.

10. 
    floorheater | Oct 14, 2005 04:20pm | #25

    Bish, we would install the top stablizer on the ground and when we would place the truss bam! one hit and it's ready for the next one install the others in the time it takes to get the next truss up!. <!----><!---->

     

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5. 
   brownbagg | Oct 13, 2005 03:13am | #11

   amazon.com has them

6. 
   blue_eyed_devil | Oct 13, 2005 05:49am | #13

   Sorry Bish, I agree with Mark.

   I  once had a crane operator offer me a set to use. I didn't bother to try them. I already have my system and I know that those trusslocks could not possibly help me. The bottleneck isn't the setters, it's the crane!

   And I also don't use 25 1/2" blocks, anymore. I was taught to use that system, but I quickly saw the folly, and the waste and I started rethinking the entire idea.

   We then graduated to 49 1/2" blocks, which seemed to make more sense, since we almost always set two trusses at a time. Again, I saw the folly in my ways, but did notice that it was substantially better than 25 1/2" blocks, mainly because the longer ones could be stored more easily awaiting deployment. The most significant problem with those was the waste, as well as the time spent measuring, laying out an  cutting.

   Now adays, for the last decade, I've used full length studs. I lay about 20 studs on the deck and snug them up against a wall. I then layout the outermost studs with a 2' layout. I straightedge across the entire bunch with my four foot level. I can very easily mark out enough studs for most big houses in less than five minutes.

   The beauty of this system is the lack of waste. We use one stud for the two trusses that are sent up. The "extra" length of the stud just kinda floats along, not being used, nor nailed. The real savings comes when we lay the first sheet. On most lower pitched roofs (8/12 and lower), we can immediately strip the lacers and use them for kickers on the bottom course of plywood.  We always put a double membered kicker (we use a "L" style kicker) on the bottom. The lacers will provide about 75% of the materials we need to get the roof sheathing started. Essentially, we've got most of the kickers up there "free" of labor, because we made our "trusslockers" do double duty.

   Typically, if I'm sheathing the roof, I'll set one 2x4 for almost every sheet I lay. Often, I'll recycle the same studs as I move from one side of a roof to the other. After the roof is layed, I will often strip all the studs and then use them inside the house during the final "cleanup" of all the unfinished detail work.

   No more 25 1/2" blocks in my scrap piles and no more blocks with spikes sticking out laying all over.

   Basically, you couldn't give me a set of trusslocks.

   I have on occasion made "truss-setters". I think the last time I used them I was setting a very wide commercial building. The piggys were 40'! I was riding the top on the set, and using three site built "truss-setters". The truss would come in and I would lock it in at the middle of the 40' flat top. I would then walk over to one side and lock that in with another "truss-setter", walk to the other end and lock it in with the last. By that time the guys below would have the bottom chord locked and I would release the crane and then start dragging in the linial that I had up top and nail it in. By staggering the 16' linial, I could permantly lock in three places on each truss set. The "Truss setter" basically locked in the 40 top chord in a parallel line so I could nail the linial without a needing a layout.

   I was so fast doing all that, that I could walk back nailing the entire length of the three permanent linials before the next truss arrived. Of course, every once in a while, I'd need the crane to send up another load of linial. The guys below also kept a steady practice of locking the bottom chords and installing all the permanent diagonal bracing as required. We probably did 75% of the finished lateral bracing as we went along. By the time we set the last truss, we were sufficently braced to send up the 40" piggys. I don't remember, but I think we just stocked them in piles and stood them by hand after the crane left. I think the crane was there for two days.

   Whew, it brought back fond memories.

   blue

    

1. 
   Mark | Oct 13, 2005 07:58am | #14

   Yep,  studs,  you and I do it exactly the same Blue.  I agree that the bottleneck is with the crane, and not the guy bracing the trusses.

   a few years ago the company I was working for hired a new guy to run their framing crew.  I was sent over to help one day and saw that there were about a 50 or 60 25-1/2" blocks laying all over the place all of them with nails sticking out of both ends. When I got one of the grunts to explain to me what they were from I tried to reason with lead guy about how morbidly wasteful that was both from a time and a material standpoint,  but he wouldn't even listen.  his way was the only way to do it and that was all there was to it.

   As you can imagine,  all those 2' blocks landed in the dumpster on every house so the waste was repeated house after house.  The guys in the office finally caught on after they started getting bills for extra studs that he had to order on every house (a blueprint that they built over and over ad nauseum and thought they had the materials figured down to the last stick). 

    " If I were a carpenter"