OK Boss Hog, here is the new thread on this topic. As I was saying, I tend to work on older houses that have rafters. Upon occasion when I have to climb into a newer house’s attic, I tend to think that the trusses look like a massive waste of space.
Are the trusses that much cheaper (materials and installation) that it is worth losing the storage space that rafters provide?
And, Boss, I looked at the links you offered which were comparing stick/rafter with panel/truss on two “identical” houses. But since it WAS sponsored by the Wood Truss Council of America should we wonder about bias? And it really doesn’t give me the focus I wanted. I just want feelings on Truss vs Rafters, without bringing in all the rest of the house.
How do you fall on this issue, Boss? If a HO comes to you and wants a completely new roof put on, do you tend to automatically choose truss? Or does it vary by case?
Replies
I suspect there is a difference between trac and spec houses compared to owner-designed houses.
In my own house, garage and cabin, you are right, I didn't want to give up the cathedral ceiling, storage space, play room and sleeping loft that rafters allowed.
But if I was building a house to sell? When most buyers are just counting bedrooms and bathrooms? I would have used trusses thereby reducing the insulation used and reducing the heated volume.
People gotta confront how much crap they keep in storage. Otherwise the next generation has to deal with upon their death.
I'd be glas to contribute - Just don't have time right now.
I like my sex the way I play basketball, one on one with as little dribbling as possible." [Leslie Nielsen]
You don't have time to surf, your lunch is over, get back to work! ;)
jt8
Actually, I didn't have time today because work was hell on wheels. We spent a quarter of a mil on a new saw, and it hasn't worked for 10 days. Really puts the squeeze on things. I spent much of the day working on the saw, on the phone with the manufacturer, or emailing files, pictures, and video back and forth to them.
Plus trying to deal with the usual problems.
I starteed a reply but didn't get done. So I saved it as a text file and will get back to it later. Gotta go pick corn tonight. I'll try working on it after dark, or maybe Saturday morning.One time a cop pulled me over for running a stop sign. He said, "Didn't you see the stop sign?" I said, "Yeah, but I don't believe everything I read."
My own experience is that attic storage is a PITA.
Once stuff gets stuck up there, it usually stays up there until the people move out. (I see lots of stuff in attics coated with thick dust{G})
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Right, Bob. The only thing worse is rental storage units. Amazing the sort of stuff people think is important enough to keep, then when the back rent is past due, it gets sold at auction. Here in Georgia, by law, the itemized list of stuff to be sold has to be printed ahead of time in the local paper. It's most often just pure junk.
Greg
On many new houses, even with rafters you are probably talking about "attic storage" rather than living space, however, on some of the musty old houses I've blundered into, they had attics capable of being turned into VERY suitable living space.
Maybe along about next spring my bro-in-law might be ready to convert his attic (around 100 yo house). They have a pretty nice attic space. Currently storage, but very good potential.
So I guess I can see what many of you are saying. As storage space, attics tend to be black holes. Stuff goes in and doesn't come back. As such, it isn't all that useful. But I suspect a great deal of the useability of the attic depends not only on the rafters, but on the access. If you have a regular staircase up there, you're more likely to make good use of it (rather than the folks with pull-downs or simply a hole in a closet ceiling). So maybe more worthwhile to have rafters if it increases your living space.
How about from a $$ point of view? (materials and installation) Generally speaking, do trusses always win out?jt8
In my opinion, just because a space is enclosed and "weathered in" doesn't mean it's going to be a comfortable or useful space to live in.
In the areas I've lived in, older houses usually have much steeper roof pitches, meaning more usable floor space.
The downsides of attic spaces are (i) you usually have to reframe the floor (or build to the higher load requirements for occupied space) and attic spaces are usually coldish in winter and too warm in sunmmer without signifcant air tempering costs.
Properly insulating them is usually a hastle, as well, and is often poorly done.
IMO, basements also usually make crummy living spaces, except walkout types, perhaps.
>>How about from a $$ point of view? (materials and installation) Generally speaking, do trusses always win out?
From a strict economic analysis point of view, a lot of hard-nosed business men/builders go with trusses. I expect $ is the reason.
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
I'll chime in on this a little. We stick frame almost everything. Sometimes we will truss the garage, but not too often. We have gotten very fast at stick framing. There is an article right now at JLC that is about gang cutting rafters. I pretty much follow the advice of the author. http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jlconline.storefront/41547ffc000d901c27177f000001059d/Product/View/0409gang
So, I'll use a plan we build as an example because I have some pics. This roof took myself, and two kids (early 20's) :-) (who have only framed for about 10 months) 2 days total. I cut the roof (all rafters, jacks, ridges, posts etc) and we stacked it that afternoon. That morning we finished framing the interior walls and plumb and lined. The next day we birdblocked, cut tails, hung facia & fly rafters, and then sheathed the roof. As a side note, the 2 days did include framing the gable ends (I love the PLS 5) and rolling ceiling joists. It takes us one day to build the garage walls, floor, walls (one of which is a rake wall sided) cut and stack the roof and sheathe, although it is a long day (too long for me :-))
I'm going to post some pics too of the ceiling I was able to frame that we couldn't have framed if we used trusses (unless we wanted to add to the expense of the truss).
Since this thread isn't necessarily about the $ difference, but just the differences and are they worth it, I'll be fair and say that we aren't all that fast at trusses. So for us, the time difference isn't significant. We also own a forklift, so that helps with packing material. I cut the rafters, then stack the posts and ridges on top of the stack of rafters and then grab it with the forklift and boom it up and stack it.
Here are some of the reasons we stick frame:
1) we have more flexibility when it comes to elaborate ceilings. We can build ceilings that other builders around here can't because they don't have the height.
2)product differentiation. Many people, including other tradespersons comment on the perception that it takes a craftsman to cut a roof. That may or may not be true, but if it creates that perception for some customers, then our product stands apart
3) never have to come back and repair drywall because of uplift. I know that this can be debated, but for us, every time we use trusses, we have to do drywall repair
4) For us, now, stick framing does not cost any more and the time added isn't enough for us to switch
5) One less thing to schedule and potentially cause big delays.
6) It is a lot of fun to stick frame and the sense of accomplishment from putting together a complex roof is huge.
Here are some pics of the house I was talking about above and then a ceiling I framed about a month ago in the master bedroom of that house. We've built this house 3 times this summer and this pic is from the first time. We didn't frame the rake wall that time in the garage. I'll post a pic of a cove ceiling that I did because we had the extra height from sticking the roof.
Looks good, Timuhler. jt8
This is the loft area of my new cabin home. It will be my wife's sewing room and my place to be artsy-fartsy................trusse IMO are a waste of space, especially in a less than 2000 sq.' house. Only on Ken and Barbie houses do they make sense.
Like I said before - This isn't a simple subject with clear cut answers. And there are plenty of opinions floating around both ways.
First - You asked if the two "identical" houses thing by the WTCA (Wood Truss Council of America) was biased.
As far as I know there was no cheating going on. They videotaped the whole thing, so cheating would be difficult to hide. And there was a large enough group of people involved that I doubt they ALL would have gone along with cheating.
They did do a couple of things that aren't commonly done on stick framed houses. (around here, anyway) They had an architect or engineer specify all the nailed connections required for the rafters and ceiling joists on the stick framed house. Most guys just stick a couple of gun nails in all the connections. So that may have taken more labor than was "normal".
Assuming the comparison was reasonably fair, I'd say it does show that framing with components is cheaper. Even if you assume that the WTCA cheated a bit, framing with components is probably pretty close to the same net cost as stick framing.
But try to tell a veteran stick framer that trusses are just as cheap, and they're likely to go postal on you. People like what they're used to. Guys who have used trusses for years will grumble if you ask them to stick frame something.
.
Maybe it would be a good idea to look at the advantages and disadvantages to both trusses and stick framing. Both have their good and bad points. Here are some of my thoughts.
Advantages for trusses:
1. Longer clear spans. Framing 30 or 40' clear span houses with rafters is extraordinarilly difficult and/or impractical. But those clear spans are the norm. (Around here, anyway)
2. Less jobsite labor. This can be a big deal in the winter or when you have a lot of jobs and/or not enough help.
3. Less need for skilled help. Nobody seems to be able to hire and keep enough good help. Especially the ones who know what they're doing. You need less skilled labor to frame with trusses.
4. Less lumber usage. Trusses use less lumber than stick framing.
5. Flexability in future renovations. With less bearing walls required, it's easier to remodel down the road.
6. Engineering. Trusses are engineered components. There's is an amazing amount of testing that goes into truss and plate design. Every truss that comes out of our plant we gotta be able to defend in court. Rafters, it seems to me, are just pulled from span charts and installed so they look good. No real engineering is put into them. (This may not be true everywhere, but it is around here)
Disadvantages for trusses:
1. Lead times. Sometimes it takes a while to get the danged things. I'm sure plenty of guys here can tell you how maddening this can be.
2. Getting it right. With trusses, you only get one shot at getting them right the first time. If every last detail isn't right, getting things straightened can be a HUGE problem.
..
Advantages for rafters:
1. Availability. You can call a lumberyard and have lumber on your site in a short amount of time.
2. Flexability. If you cut something wrong, you only have to re-cut one board. And you can more easily adjust for changes. (Like lower a pitch if the roof is geting into a 2nd floor window)
Disadvantages for rafters:
1. Dealing with crooked lumber
2. More beams needed.
3. Framing speed. Everybody wants everything under roof pronto.
.
I left one advantage out that I feel trusses have, partly because I know it will be controversial. I believe that in general, trusses are significantly stronger than stick framing.
Stick framing LOOKS stronger due to the large sized framing members that are used. But everything depends on the connections. If rafters aren't fastened well, they're not going to hold their design loads no matter how big they are.
I realize there are exceptions, and that this varies from one jobsite to the next. But in general, I think I'm right.
.
I also disagree that rafters are better because they allow for more accessable attic space. That's only true if the ceiling joists and other suporting framing are designed to support the added loads. The span charts for ceiling joists only allow for light loads for storage - Not enough for liveable space.
.
Well, now ya know what I think. I'm sure all the stick framers will jump in here and tell me that they've decided that I'm 100% right and they're going to switch to using trusses. (-:
If sex doesn't scare the cat, you're not doing it right
"5. Flexability in future renovations. With less bearing walls required, it's easier to remodel down the road."
It depend on what kind of remodeling. You are right for things changes partition walls.
But they are more difficult for things that affect the ceiling line or roof line; skylights, dormers, attic stairs.
"6. Engineering. Trusses are engineered components. There's is an amazing amount of testing that goes into truss and plate design. Every truss that comes out of our plant we gotta be able to defend in court. Rafters, it seems to me, are just pulled from span charts and installed so they look good. No real engineering is put into them. (This may not be true everywhere, but it is around here) "
No more stick build. What do you thing that the span charts come from and codes that specify construction.
What I see is the big difference is in quality control of the contruction.
Also there are more parts in a truss so that they can be more closely engineered to the loads so that miniumal materials are used.
"But they are more difficult for things that affect the ceiling line or roof line; skylights, dormers, attic stairs."
Good point - Can't argue with that one.
"What do you thing that the span charts come from and codes that specify construction."
Not sure what you mean by that...
"What I see is the big difference is in quality control of the contruction."
Again, I'm not sure what you mean there.
"...there are more parts in a truss so that they can be more closely engineered to the loads so that miniumal materials are used."
Two things here - First, trusses aren't always designed so MINIMAL materials are used. We have standards we use for maximum panel lengths, minimum chord sizes, overplating for handling, etc. We could make the trusses MUCH more minimal than they typically are, in most cases. But the standards we use are based on experience, for quality control reasons.
Also - I believe the INVERSE is typically true with stick framing. Big members are used, with very little thought given to connections. But it doesn't matter how big the rafters are if they aren't secured well.Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.
""What do you thing that the span charts come from and codes that specify construction."
Not sure what you mean by that..."
The span charts wheren't figured using a WeeGee (sp?) board. They are based on the phyiscal characteristic (engineering data) of the different sizes, species, and grading.
A stick frame roof has been engineered and placed in form of tables. So a roof designed using those tables and the associated code details meets the engineering requirements.
""What I see is the big difference is in quality control of the contruction."
Again, I'm not sure what you mean there."
Any roof depends not only on the design, but ability of the people constructing it to follow the design using the correct materials and construction practices.
While this is the FHB forum we have not seen enough threads about houses where the builder has not be the "best". And if with inspections there can still be lots of mistakes made in framing a roof.
But truss out of a factory will have a smaller number of people involved and that is all that they do and if they are to say in business then there is a higher likelyhood that they don't put out any badly constructed trusses.
""...there are more parts in a truss so that they can be more closely engineered to the loads so that miniumal materials are used.""
Bad choice of words and I am not sure that I will do a better job of expresing myself this time.
Probably granularity would be a better word.
With stick framing you are limited to just a few combinations. For example going from 2x6 to 2x8 is a large jump in strength of the joist. If the 2x6 just barely missed being enough then you can't go to a 2x7.
With truss you have a larger number of componets that can be adjust so there are the big jumps in material as you increase the span slightly.
That said, as you mentioned it might not be practical to really "fully" engineer each element in each design.
"A stick frame roof has been engineered and placed in form of tables. So a roof designed using those tables and the associated code details meets the engineering requirements. "
I don't agree. What you said only means the rafters and ceiling joists are the right size. That doesn't mean that any thought has been given to their attachment to the ridge board or beam, or the connection to the wall plates.
For instance - If you frame a 28' wide house at 6/12, how do you decide how many nails are required to resist the compression forces in the rafters? How many more nails are needed if the roof is 5/12?
That isn't covered in any span charts I've ever seen.Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to use the Net and he won't bother you for weeks.
"For instance - If you frame a 28' wide house at 6/12, how do you decide how many nails are required to resist the compression forces in the rafters? How many more nails are needed if the roof is 5/12?"
No, but it is covered by the codes, which BTW also include the offical span tables.
Bill, you may be right. But I've never personally seen (or heard of) anything in any code about nailing requirements for design loads. I'd sure like to see an example.
I've also never seen a blueprint that had any nailing requirements for stick framing connections.
The only thing I've ever seen is minimum nailng for wind uplift. IIRC, it's three 16D nails gives you 180# of uplift. (Going from memory)
And - As Piffin pointed out - Who ever refers to that stuff, anyway? Is there any city out there where building inspectors check this stuff?I once had a cookbook entitled, "When It's Smoking, It's Cooking, When It's Burnt, It's Done".
IRC table R802.5.1(9)
"Rafter Ceiling heal joint connections"
The table is based on slope, spacing, span, and roof loads.
Interesting.
Don't know what the IRC is, so I've obviously never seen it.I'm writing an unauthorized autobiography.
Internation Residential Code.
A sub-set ofthe ICC which is probably going to be replacing the many of the regional codes over the years.
Boss,
I do believe that the IRC has a chart showing how many nails at the ridge/rafter connection and also at the rafter/ceiling joist connection.
as I rad things, boss's point would be tghat how many of us have a copy of that in the truck, refer to it, and religiously make sute the carpenter's helper on the top actually uses that numbe of nails properly placed...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piff,
I recognize that fact, but I sometimes wonder what the level of skill isn't at the truss factory. We have had such miserable experiences with trusses way too often. Sometimes we wonder if these guys have much skill at all. I can't judge every truss company, but the guys we get to work with aren't all that confidence inspiring :-)
I met with an engineer for one of our stick framed roofs and talked about the rafter/ridge connection. We were using 1 3/4 x 14 lvls as ridge beams. When he considered the connection (combo of face nailing and 3 or 4 toe nails) and ran the numbers, it was plenty strong enough for 40psf roof loads we deal with. As far as metal connections to hold the roof to the plates, that applies to both stick and truss roofs.
Here is something to think about, and if I have it wrong, Boss will tell me :-). When we stick frame, (let's assume we are hourly) the GC pays for the material and our labor and then will mark that up. Of course the lumber yard made some money also.
For trusses, the truss company will order the material, do the engineering, pay someone to put the trusses together, deliver and place the trusses and mark all of that up (as they should. They deserve to make money and stay in business). The GC then (assume hourly) pays his employees to install the trusses and then he marks up the whole package. It seems to me then that there is more than one markup. Or a better way to say it is that the truss company has a bigger amount to mark up and typically has higher overhead. I guess we could trace down and talk about the mills and their markups, but I don't think we need to.
I know that our company, we are all hourly. The boss provides tools, work vehicles in some cases, a forklift, etc, and full medical to all employees and family. Now our framing price/ sp ft including stick framing is about $6/sq ft. If we sub, we pay about the same, but have to pay more to stick since no one around here can stick frame. Our framing is cheaper even with stickframing. For our company, it makes sense to stick frame most of the time. Even when the roof is engineered.
"I sometimes wonder what the level of skill isn't at the truss factory."
Wonder no more - I'll tell ya. (-:
Like you, I can't speak for the entire USA. But Believe, me, I wish quality was better overall. The guys we hire are typically 17 to 22 Year olds with no college, very little job experience, and low IQs. They start out at around $8 an hour. Turnover is roughly 100% a year.
But - The other 4 truss plants that I have worked at have been much better. I think it varies a lot from one area to the next.
I could go on about quality for a L O N G time. But I'll save that for another thread, if anyone is really interested.
"I met with an engineer for one of our stick framed roofs and talked about the rafter/ridge connection. ...When he considered the connection ... and ran the numbers, it was plenty strong enough for 40psf roof loads we deal with. "
The ridge connection isn't really the one I was referring to. I was thinking more about the one at the wall.
For instance - Obviously rafters are in compression, and ceiling joists in tension. Somehow the 2 have to be fastened together to transfer that force from one member to the other. To the best of my knowledge, I've never seen anyone attempt to engineer that connection.
I *HAVE*, however, seen that connection fail. We did trusses one to overframe a stick framed roof that had collapsed. The owner hired someone to re-shingle the house. When they statted stocking bundles along the ridge, the rafters collpsed.
"Here is something to think about, and if I have it wrong, Boss will tell me :-).
It seems to me then that there is more than one markup."
I susect this would vary so much from one region to the next that it would be impossible to generalize.Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?
Boss,
I'm pretty sure that there is a rafter tie/rafter connection chart in the IRC. I remember reading and thinking that it was interesting that they have a chart for that and that it isn't a one pitch fits all :-) The requirements changed based on the pitch.
We had one inspector about 2 years ago tell us that 5 16ds were what the UBC required for our 10-12 roof. I never looked it up, but this guy was a by the book individual.
100% turnover? That's really tough. What is the turnover as far as the designers like you? I would imagine fairly low.
"What is the turnover as far as the designers like you? I would imagine fairly low."
It varies. Some companies hang onto their designers for a long time. Others hire younger kids who can learn the program quicker and so the turnover is higher.
But in general, the turnover rate is lower for designers.I read so many bad things about smoking, drinking, overeating, and sex that I finally decided to give up reading
That doesn't mean that any thought has been given to their attachment to the ridge board or beam, or the connection to the wall plates.
Have to agree there--I've seen too many 16d toe nailed (mostly) into the bottom 1/8" of the bird's mouth on the rafter. Then the other side nail only getting a 2/3 set as it was fired into its partner on the other side.
Not on jobs where quality was an issue, but enough where speed was rated more important (" 'sides, the deck will make it all strong, when we nail it down after . . . ").
All of the sudden, those $1.12 simpson strong tie rafter connections look a lot cheaper . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
But it doesn't matter how big the rafters are if they aren't secured well.
Absolutely. In my building I used 2x10 rafters.........tied together by 4x8 beams.................quite strong IMO..........but without the long metal strapping holding the beams to the ext. wall plates.........the whole thing would be compromised.
Metal straps and the other mega assortment of connectors are very important IMO..........unless you are pegging (like the Amish do)
Boss, You ARE 100% right
sometimes
;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
That's pretty high praise, coming from an ornery old SOB like you.
(-:I don't mind anyone owning firearms. Just give me all the ammunition.
Raise the praise high!
But Bill is rtight too, in that a conventionally framed roof system is engineered also. That's in the theoretical planning portion of it that both are engineered.
but it is in the implimentation stage4 that either can fail. Truss guys have one step in the factory where it is easier to control that implimentation, but the installation can still afford an opportumnity for hacks to screw the things up. Seems to me that the average crew speeding through a pile of trusses might be somewhat less skilled than the average crew doing traditional stick framing and thus more likely to miss important things.
While at the same time, since stick frameers do more of the work on site in all kinds of weather, there is a good chance for them to screw up something too.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Another point is that with trusses (from an up-to-date source) each truss design is essentially individually engineered, while the stick-framing tables apply a single relatively small set of rules and approximations to a wide variety of conditions. This means that the stick-framing tables must be "over-engineered" (have large safety margins) to assure adequate worst-case performance, while a truss can be precisely "tuned" (by computer) for each case.
This doesn't really affect strength, since the stick-framing tables are, as I said, "over-engineered", but it does affect cost and span issues.
"Bill is right too, in that a conventionally framed roof system is engineered also."
Engineered by whom?
Like I said to Bill, I've never seen specify nailing requirements for stick framingImagination is more important than knowledge. [Albert Einstein]
Ok, I am late in all of this and a DIY but... I was surprised that the pictures of the two stick built roofs did not have collar ties. The inspectors that I have been dealing with, in Halton, Ontario would have required collar ties.
What is the requirement for collar ties in your area? Is it more or less standard across the U.S.?An ex-boat builder treading water!
I didn't post any photos in this thread but somebody else did.
I can take a stab at answering generally tho.
First is to be sure you are using right terminology.
Rafter ties and colar ties get mixed up pretty often. Collar ties are only used in the upper thrid of the rafter area and are there top prevent hinging and uplift by high winds that can tear a roof apart. They are requiored in many southern states where tornadoes are common but not always required in all the country.
rafter ties or some version of them to do the same job ( such as cieling joists that form a triangle with the rafters to resist the outward thrust they create) are located in the lower third of the rafter space and are required when there is no structural ridge.
Either can be dispensed with when the forces acting on the roof and house are adressed in other ways by a compertantly engineered system. Fior instance, there are times when strap metal or hangers can replace collart ies.
If I remember right, the photos here showed some heavier timbers acting as structural ridges but I should let the poster adress your Q more specifically.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Edited 9/28/2004 8:36 pm ET by piffin
piffin, I take it you meant "rafter ties" instead of "Colar ties". You have collar in there twice. jt8
Right you are.
Old age - I guess. I find more and more often that my mouth sometimes says something different than what my mind means.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
With email, I'm thinking is some strange kind of conspiracy. I didn't TYPE THAT! (or at least that's not what I MEANT to type). I'm just glad this forum has an edit feature.
When I'm speaking, I'll just claim they heard it wrong.
I'm not getting old, everyone is just muttering. Speak up!jt8
Our local version(s) :-) of the code don't require rafter ties if a structural ridge is used. There is a structural ridge in the photos I posted. As far as collar ties, we don't deal with high winds here, so they are not required. In the city of Bremerton, we are required to run straps nailed to about 3' of rafter up and over the ridge to about 3' of the opposing rafter.
Piff,
Nice explanation.
"As far as collar ties, we don't deal with high winds here, so they are not required."
"In the city of Bremerton, we are required to run straps nailed to about 3' of rafter up and over the ridge to about 3' of the opposing rafter."
And the difference is ?
Seems to be that strapping provides the same uplift protection that collar ties do, no more, no less.
My understanding is the same as yours, but the inspector told us that when we hold the sheathing short of the ridge for vent-a-ridge, that we need the straps.
Off note...
Looked at a job yesterday...
What's wrong with my roof and ceiling??? Why are they sagging???
Trusses spanning 14'6" made from 2x2's... 3/12 pitch...
Ahhhh... Folks... Yur not gonna like this...
They did not appear home made because of the truss plates..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
"Trusses spanning 14'6" made from 2x2's... 3/12 pitch..."
Never seen or heard of a truss made from 2X2s. Got any pictures? Was it a modular home? They do some funky stuff sometimes.
It is POSSIBLE that they could be homemade even with truss plates. People have ways of getting the plates and putting them together.
Actually, A 14' 6" truss would probably work fine made out of 2X2s, if it was built right.
But this falls under the "minimum standards" thing I mentioned in an earlier post - Most truss plants simply wouldn't build something like that.If a child lives with approval, he learns to live with himself.
Never seen or heard of a truss made from 2X2s. Got any pictures? Was it a modular home? They do some funky stuff sometimes.
That's a nice way to put it Boss but no, It wasn't a modular... CMU construction ... Maybe somebody got some left overs from a modular outfit... that's possible..
It is POSSIBLE that they could be homemade even with truss plates. People have ways of getting the plates and putting them together.
that's possible too....
The ridge was saging about 8"
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
<<<"The ridge was saging about 8"
What ridge? Is this on another roof section?
Jon Blakemore
The roof's ridge of the addition...
Cieling had dropped down 8"too...
This is all at the center of the room...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
I've worked on a lot of older houses in Denver. Sometimes I've been impressed with the cut roofs but then I work on a wall partition (true 2"X4"-rough) and it has no bottom plate. It is resting on the flooring only. Oops!
Trusses can be made for storage. They have heavier chords and are made for greater live loads. I have a little of each in my house. Either way you can only cough your way through the insulation toward the outside wall so far.
We sistered in bigger joists (for the 2nd floor) next to the original ceiling joists and carried them all the way the outer walls. It was part of our "while we're at it" addition that continues as money is available.
I have enough partitions to support the regular joists if I ever want to store more junk up there. It was easier to assemble a shed about the size of a 1 car garage at the side of the house and use shelving from floor to ceiling. Most of it is 2X4 w/2X6 shelves. My soon to be 89 year old Mom has one of those pull down ladders/steps and stores her treasures over the garage. Tyr