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Tub diverter leaks, bought another one, it leaks too.

Nick25 | Posted in Construction Techniques on February 18, 2010 07:50am

Hi, I had a problem I haven’t had before.  I am finishing a basement, when I started installing the shower faucets and tub spout I did everything the same as usual.  The unit is a Moen ‘Monticello’ if it matters.   When I turn on the tub by itself the shower head leaks, a good sprinkle comes out constantly, when the shower head is in use the tub has a steady drip.  The other thing that I thought was odd was when I installed the shower head even with teflon tape there is a leak just behind the head.  The water pressure is pretty high, if that was to be the cause is there a solution available? Thanks, Nick

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  1. DanH | Feb 18, 2010 08:20pm | #1

    If the shower leaks when the control is set to "tub" then there's too much resistance in the tub spout, diverter, or plumbing to the spout.  It's fairly normal for there to be a few drips from the tub spout in "shower" mode, though this varies both by style and by the skill of the user.

    The leak from the shower head sounds like it could be a cracked/defective shower head, or it could be that the shower arm is improperly threaded.

    1. Nick25 | Feb 18, 2010 08:24pm | #2

      Sorry, when you say resistance,  do you mean pressure or not enough? When I put the spout on originally I had thought it was a slip on, found out it was a screw on so I added a coupling, I can't see that creating resistance.

      1. User avater
        xxPaulCPxx | Feb 19, 2010 12:00pm | #3

        You would be surprised how little resistance it takes to back up water all the way to the shower head.

        When I plumbed my tub/shower, I used 1/2 PEX.  If you've ever ran an open line of PEX and seen the water shooting out, you can see that the water flows through it pretty well.  But 1/2" PEX actually has an internal diameter of 3/8" at the fittings.  In an open loop between the tub spigot and the shower head, that is just enough resistance to back water up all the way to the shower head.  It went away when i replaced the PEX fittings between the tub spigot and mixing valve with ones that had an internal diameter of 1/2".

        1. Nick25 | Feb 19, 2010 07:59pm | #4

          I called moen today that was what they thought too. I'm going to post in hopes of someone knowing how to cheat this some how. Thanks.

          1. User avater
            xxPaulCPxx | Feb 19, 2010 08:05pm | #5

            Take off everything between the mixing valve and tub spout.  Anything that is NOT 1/2" ID will need to be replaced.

             Done!

          2. roger g | Feb 19, 2010 10:22pm | #6

            I've used pex for years in that application and never had a problem.  Can't understand the reasoning about PEX restrictions coming into the valve. A PEX fitting going up to the shower head wouldn't cause the problem you are having. If there was a restriction there the pressure would be in the opposite direction which would inhibit the flow to the head.

            I have heard though that the distance between the shower heard and the mixing valve would cause a leak at the shower if the distance was too short. Not sure if it's true but that's what I heard

            roger

          3. BigBill | Feb 19, 2010 11:30pm | #7

            I solve this problem with a valve on the goose neck before the showerhead.  Not eligant but it works.

          4. Nick25 | Feb 20, 2010 08:36am | #8

            I suppose water taking the easiest path, a 1/3 i.d. difference would slow it down. It leaves some questions,  Why does the manufacturer not specify the distance from controls to spout, and how much pressure comes off the supply would be different in many different places, I suppose the only thing I can think of is that the controls are also regluating the ammount of water passing to the spout? I'm not crazy about a gooseneck,  but I might have to. I've spoken to a number of plumbers now that all say that they have never had a problem with this application. Maybe this is specific to this particular set?

          5. rich1 | Feb 20, 2010 10:28am | #9

            Delta now says in their instructions, no pex from valve to tub spout.

          6. Nick25 | Feb 20, 2010 09:42pm | #10

            how bad does a gooseneck look?

          7. DanH | Feb 23, 2010 09:08pm | #11

            Depends on whether you're another goose, I suspect.

          8. rdesigns | Feb 25, 2010 09:11am | #13

            At a decent plumbing supply house, you can buy a nice looking chrome "volume control" valve that's meant to go on the end of the shower arm, before the shower head.

            This may be the simplest solution now that the wall is finished.

        2. archidaved | Nov 16, 2010 02:15am | #17

          Pex at Shower Diverter

          I've read numerous posts about how and where to use (or not to use) pex for shower and tub install.  Can 1/2" pex be used from the mixer to the shower spout if you use 1/2" copper from the mixer to the tub spout?  Does this meet the pressure and resistance issue to avoid the drip from the shower while filing the tub?  Will I lose resistance if I use sharkbite for these connections?  I want to use pex from the mixer to the shower (flexible) to avoid a soap niche on center on this wall-FYI.

          1. rdesigns | Nov 16, 2010 09:58am | #18

            That should work just fine. What you're aiming for is to have less resistance to the tub spout than you have to the shower head. Your plan will accomplish this.

          2. User avater
            xxPaulCPxx | Nov 16, 2010 04:30pm | #19

            AGREED!

  2. roger g | Feb 24, 2010 11:56pm | #12

    Not in a million years would I have thought anyone would have used pex  for the tub filler from the valve. There wouldn't be any support for the tub filler spout.

    roger

    1. User avater
      xxPaulCPxx | Feb 25, 2010 11:50am | #14

      I just saw a copper stub out in HD yesterday... sharkbite on one side connected to a 90 degree 1/2" copper tube with capped end.

      I think PEX would work for this connection IF you used the 3/4" fittings instead of 1/2".

      In my case (for using PEX there), I offset the tub spout to the corner so I could sit with my back against the tub wall without getting dinged in the head by the tub spout.  There are screw in 90 degree fittings that mount to backing for those connections.

      1. DanH | Feb 25, 2010 07:24pm | #16

        Shouldn't that be "Speelsheck"?

    2. DanH | Feb 25, 2010 07:23pm | #15

      I recall seeing it done somewhere in the past couple of years.  And I never even cared for the copper stubs -- always preferred a drop-eared ell and nipple.

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