We are having a home built and have just spoken to the GC and learned our “allowance” for plumbing fixtures and tubs and we need to find a good durable (2 young sons!!) tub and shower surround. Could go to local bigbox but thought you guys here might have some better alternatives/suggestions!! Willing to listen to all!!!!
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Replies
Tub?
Good ole Kohler cast iron tubs run about $200.
Can't help with surrounds. All I'd be willing to recommend is cement backer board with tile. Durable, but the price? With simple tile, it's affordable, but then again...only you can define "affordable".
Mongo, you must have a hot source for that Kohler cast iron tub. $200 if stolen off the back of a truck, maybe, but my plumber sub charges me a lot more.
Furthermore, that "allowance" figure from the GC to the owner is going through the full supply chain of mfgr-wholesale-plumber-builder-owner. At best, the "list" figure (MSRP) is what the owner is being given for the allowance. Kohler CI tubs list for between $850 and $1275, and I am only talking about the basic ones, in white.
The poster probably is looking for one piece plastic units.
Aker/Maax makes good tough ones. Specify acrylic, not gelcoat.
Edited 12/5/2004 11:11 am ET by Gene Davis
Gene,
Not $200 but no where near your price. Kohler model #716 cast iron tub I bought on 10/25.......$320.15. Charged $550 to the customer. DanT
You're right, I forgot the Villager model. $410 list in white, $513 list in the only color offered, "Biscuit."
If I was your customer and had specified white, I would be beefing loud and clear about the $550. That is a 34 percent markup, over list.
Wellll, beef away Gene. I am clear and consise on my pricing and it includes delivery and handling. If you want to pay retail and deliver it to the site so we can install have at it. DanT
My plumbing sub's charge to me for Kohler items is usually 12 to 16 percent off list. His installation of same, of course, is not included in that figure.
At the highest end of cost plus work here, the big $5 million weekend camps for the rich and famous, the fee is 10 OH plus 10 profit on materials. That comes to 21.1.
Let's say I put a Villager in the bath of guest house #3, and my plumber's invoice shows it sold to me at $400. My total markup would be $84.40.
I am a remodeler/handyman service. I sell to the end user. I understand working through a GC takes a different pricing strategy. One of the reasons I shy away from that area of work. But I wouldn't hoof one of those on and off a truck for 84 bucks I can tell ya! lol. DanT
You're on the right track Dan. Dont let ANYONE tell your what your overhead, profit, or resulting mark-up "should" be.
My thoughts exactly. I know what I want to make, and that is why I am in business for myself. I have people that think my prices are too high on a regular basis but an almost equal amount that think they are fine. So.........I would rather work a little less than a little more to make the money I want to make. DanT
I just had to smile reading this.
I rented a house last week . I put a sign in the yard first because of the timming of the paper add . So,... a lot of people called not knowing the price. Thats fair for any response.
Some people hung up after I told them the price. Some said , somthing like Ive heard enough , or thanks , bye . LOL. But one said , thats ridiculos!!!!!!!!!!!
I said mamn , its been renting for 4 years at that price. I just got in and Ive got 16 messages on this answering machine. I put out the sign this morning. Ive got a 100 dollar bill that says the house is gone this time tomorrow. Want some ?
I rented it . Yup, sure did . Next morning at 9.00 am.
be a believer,
Tim Mooney
Quote for the day:"What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing!"-Oscar Wilde
It depends.
A house, circa 1955, built right in our village on Mirror Lake, with a drop-dead view of the high peaks across the length of the lake, recently sold for $1.8 mil.
The owner wants it torn down and a new house built on the site, and the big guns in town who do these high end "great camp" vacation houses, always cost plus, set about to "bid" the job.
The typical process is for the bidders to show their "cost" workup, based on plans and specs, including all sub work and direct labor, and then to propose their fee arrangement, which often is 10 percent OH, plus another 10 percent profit. That is a total markup of 21.1 percent.
Materials are billed at true cost (backed up with invoices if required) and then marked up per the deal.
In this example, that $400 tub (builder's cost), will earn him a gross margin of $84, and he is glad to take it.
It'll help towards this month's mortgage payment on that megabucks vacation ski house he has in Jackson Hole.
So, it's all volume related. You wouldn't take the measly 1.9 percent gross margin that Wal-Mart made when they sold you that Tiawanese DVD player on a $66 blow-out price, either, but Wal-Mart is happy to, because they are selling 13 containers full of them.
I see your point, but I don't agree. All I said was that nobody can tell anyone else what their mark-up "should" be without knowing their intended profit and what their overhead is. You tried to, but you really can't. It's unique to every individual business. You can suggest what you think someone should be marking up in order to stay "competitive" in a specific locale or market like your example in your reply post, nothing wrong with that. But that is very different from what you originally did. See the difference?
I've had good results with Lasco for a simple one-piece unit.
Hate to say it but the box stores have good varities from one piece units to three sided units form $75 up to $100's and they have pieces on display so you can see how sturdy or flimsy they are.
Be surrounded in the tub ; )~
andy
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
you can't be serious....
I've looked at and tried to use their "stuff"
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
IMERC
I'm pretty sure you havent tried all their models..there are literally "dozens upon dozens".
Be well
####The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Good success with Aker/Maxx, and Sterling.
As it is new construction, go for the single piece units to minimize seams. The more seams you have, the more plumb and square the enclosure needs to be to have the pieces fit perfectly. Level the subfloor after framing is complete, install blocking for any grab bars, desired now or in the future. Stuff FG insulation in the cavities of the tub to better retain the heat. Add blocking around the tub flange (if more than one piece) and around the top of the surround for better support. Some recommend setting the tub in mortar, but take care the tub is level afterwards if you do. Shim/fir out the walls ~1/8" to get the walls coplaner with the tub/surround flange after tub installation. If not already installed, I always attach 1x3or4 or 5/4x3or4 to the inside edges of the surround to provide a biting material for the screws for any doors that may be installed whenever, use PL premium and clamps to hold it while the adhesive sets.
I usually install cbu pieces along the side walls adjacent to the tub skirt to prevent water that is splashed onto the walls from causing DW damage. Durabond JC ties it to regular (or green) DW.
You probably won't/can't do all of the above, depending on the GC. Best I can tell you is, build it for the future, not the design of today. I'm gonna have to replace a shower door on a 4' wide enclosure where the original installer did not use any backers on the sides for the door. Now the screws will not hold and the caulk has given way. Gonna have to use 3" SS panheads to get the new door to work. Point is, plan for the future. Now is the perfect time to do so.
Edited 12/5/2004 4:50 pm ET by NickNuke'em
"Shim/fir out the walls ~1/8" to get the walls coplaner with the tub/surround flange after tub installation..."Kohler docs say wall surface "typically" comes out 7/8", which I interpret as 1/2" DW/CBU and 3/8" furring (mason lath).
Just installed a Sterling (by Kohler.) The finished wall depends on two things, how much oversized you built the alcove (specs require +1/4", - 0") and if tile is used. The more oversized the alcove, the greater the firring thickness. Ideally, I build the alcove about 1/8" oversize, just enough to wedge the surround in, then shim the extra. With the surround in, I measure and rip firring from 2x. The last Sterling required firring 1/8" for the back, 3/16" for the wet wall, and 3/16" for the end wall.
The only other way the finished wall could come out as far as they say, is if you tile over after hanging CBU. If you have to use 3/8" firring, your alcove is either too far oversized, or the walls or not plumb/floor not level.
But that's just what I have seen.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
Thanks, I've been basing my assumptions on what I found when I ripped out my bathroom. That job was one of those "who needs to level when we have joint compound?" jobs. I've been assuming 3/8" lath + 1/2" DW/CBU, then Kerdi (1/8") and tiles (5/16") for tiled tub surround. If I understand correctly, you're saying I could get by with 1/4" or even 1/8". I suppose the bottom line is where that flange is, but it was hard enough just confirming with Kohler that the tub (Memoirs) has a flange, their docs are truly horrendous...
Doh!If the point of furring out is to make the VB lap over the flange, but Kerdi is VB and it is installed over the DW....
We are also in the process of building, and I just had the pleasure of picking out my one piece tub/shower and also a shower with dome. This is what I found out. If you're going with a color, especially a dark color, use acrylic. It will not chip as easy if one of the boys drop a metal toy into the tub. The color will also stay truer and clean easier. I am happy with the Lasko shower with dome we received, even though I thought the price was high ($800+) but compared to the tub/shower dome unit we ordered from Clarion Bathware it was worth it. We returned the their unit because when they delivered it, as the sun was shining we could see many places where the acrylic and fiberglass were extremely thin. We could almost see thru it in places. Even though we would not have noticed this once it was installed, you should get what you pay for. We notified the company and for a charge they would come out and spray more fiberglass at the bends for added strength. We told them to take it back!