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Discussion Forum

Tub Surround Options

| Posted in General Discussion on February 17, 2003 10:27am

Hello all, I have a question for you.  We are in the planning stages for a bathroom remodel and are trying to decide on a tub surround.  There is tile now, with a few cracks.  Going back with tile is definitely an option, but I’m afraid that I won’t have the time to retile myself nor the money to hire it out.  The shower surround units at the big box stores (fiberglass?) just seem entirely too chintzy.

So what are my other options?  Ideally it will be relatively inexpensive, something I can install myself, and attractive.  What are your opinions of each option?

Thanks,

Bart

 

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Replies

  1. JoeRat | Feb 17, 2003 11:28pm | #1

    Bart:

    Agreed--stay away from the cheap plastic surrounds in the big boxes. Ask how I know, I designed some of them earlier in my career. Thin plastic, fragile, difficult to clean without damaging, adhesive problems galore. They're intended for quick fixes over old tile surrounds. Fiberglass is more durable but harder to work with, especially in remodeling situations.

    The two major bath remodels I've done, I've used the Swanstone wall kits. Thick, sturdy, Corian-type product that stays flat and is cleanable. They make it in various colors and nice granite-look patterns. Unfortunately, it's not cheap: 6-700 at the big boxes, and special order. You won't get the look of tile, but you won't have grout lines to scrub, and if you install it carefully it looks great and is cleanable.

    I had no choice but to take out the tile and plaster and used backerboard behind the wall kit. Some may say you can use the water-resistant gypsum board, but as I only wanted to do it once, I went for the slightly extra labor and greater moisture resistance of backerboard.

    JoeRat

  2. User avater
    JeffBuck | Feb 17, 2003 11:45pm | #2

    get to a real K and B store and take a look at the better lines of surrounds.

    and....take a harder look at what HD and Lowes has....most carry the usual crap along with some better stuff.....but a K and B supplier would have the most selections and the most knowledgable staff.

    Jeff

    Buck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

     Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite                  

    1. HONewbie | Feb 18, 2003 12:26am | #3

      Thanks for the tip.  Can you give me some idea specifically what I should look for there?  Is there some material that is better than others, or particular brands that are higher quality?

      Thanks again, I appreciate the info!

  3. JMartindal1 | Feb 18, 2003 01:35am | #4

    Sterling makes a 4 piece tub/surround unit that screws directly to the studs. Caulk free. Goes in pretty easy, clean-up not bad. 10 yr. warranty. I prefer these over the cheaper ones. Tip: spray foam insulation on the back walls of the tub.... sound & temp. help.

    1. User avater
      JeffBuck | Feb 19, 2003 02:39am | #5

      That's the best tip....

      one that supports itself......and can be screwed to bare studs.

      Sterling is pretty much my favorite brand......I'm sure there are other's.....but my K and B supply carries Sterling.

      Those that don't need drywall backer are thicker....have a much more solid feel...and generally a thicker top coat.

      They come in everything from one piece to multi-piece to fit up stairs.

      I try to go with as few seams as possible......but thru some houses and up/around stairs......sometimes makes the decision for ya.

      Jeff

      Buck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

       Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite                  

      1. HONewbie | Feb 19, 2003 05:08pm | #7

        I found the Sterling website, and it looks lke I can get a 4-piece Vikrell (sp?) surround for around $200, does that sound like the same thing you're talking about?  I agree with minimizing seams, but I don't think there is any way I could get a 1-piece into my bathroom.

        Thanks for all the help.

        1. User avater
          JeffBuck | Feb 20, 2003 12:32am | #8

          Yup!

          Find a local retailer so you can go see/touch it in person.

          You are in the same boat we usually end up in....just try to get as few pieces/seams as will fit from the truck all the way into the bath!

          years ago...I had a huge fight with a boss over whether or not the surround(1 piece) he ordered would fit up the stairs. He didn't believe me it wouldn't fit...came over to the job to prove me wrong...had me and a helper "stop being lazy and get the %^*# thing up those stairs"....

          So we did.....got about 1/2 the surround up till the whole thing got wedged tight.

          With me stuck on the stairs above. 2 of us found it very funny.

          Jeff

          remember to read the man's instructions..some say caulk the seams..some say don't...can't remember the vykrill do's and don'ts....

          Buck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

           Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite                  

          Edited 2/19/2003 4:33:44 PM ET by Jeff J. Buck

  4. poorsh | Feb 19, 2003 07:25am | #6

    Hi Bart

    We were faced with the same dilemma many moons ago. Ugly tile, Mustard yellow, really an eyesore. We went to a flooring store and purchased a no wax linoleum with a pattern that we liked. It was around $150. I made corner fillets, really just 45 degree strips. Got some dowels along with contact cement and put it over the tile. It was a little hairy as it was a large piece to handle but got the job done. I installed some trim at the top and bottom with silicone sealant and it looked really good. No grout, no leaks and easy to clean. The patterns you can find are unlimited.

    Cheers

    Poorsh

  5. User avater
    NickNukeEm | Feb 21, 2003 12:33am | #9

    Is this a DIY job?  If you're not familiar with installing a surround, and want extremely detailed information on how to put one in, let me know.  I installed several last year, and went about it with the mindset that regardless how well it was made, at some point, it was going to leak.  It was my job to ensure that the leakage wouldn't get to the clients framing, thus ruining the structure and my reputation.  In the end, I established three barriers between the water splashing on the surround on the framing.  I used some of the manufacturers recommendations, some from other sources, and a few from this forum.  It took about two complete days, but I wanted to be certain the adhesive had set up properly.

    Let me know if you'd like the whole enchilada.  It takes time to describe it all, and the first time I tried to reply, something happened with the computer and the whole schmear went to megabyte heaven.

    1. HONewbie | Feb 21, 2003 02:35am | #10

      Yes, this is a DIY job, and I would appreciate any info or tips you can give me.  We're still a ways off from doing the work, but I think we'll go this weekend and try to lay hands on some real hardware, see if we like the looks of them.

      Thanks!

      1. johnhardy | Feb 21, 2003 03:14am | #12

        For what it's worth, I think the Swanstone option would give you a much better looking shower, one that is less likely to leak, and one that would add to the value of the property much more than a tub surround. I personally think they all look chintzy and cheap. Properly done, the Swanstone would look very high end.

        If you decide to go that route, you can make templates of the walls for any cutting you'd need to do. Swanstone also has molded soap dish thingys that you can add.

        Just do the homework, figure out what makes the most sense, and make sure you've covered all of the reasonable options before you do the work. Redoing it later will be a major pain in the rear, not to mention the extra expense.

        Just my $.02.

        John

    2. SMXSteve | Feb 21, 2003 02:38am | #11

      Nick,

      I wouldn't mind hearing about your techniques. I'm about to install a 3 piece neo angle shower. It's on a concrete slab and exterior walls. I am planning on laying the vinyl flooring before I put the base down then use sand mix to level it out.

      This is a third bathroom next to a utility/laundry room which is why it's not "fine homebuilding" material.

      Steve

  6. User avater
    NickNukeEm | Feb 21, 2003 06:33am | #13

    I do a low end bathroom renovation business.  My clients aren't looking for glossy photo shoots after the job is done, they're looking for an economical, yet functional bath with as much class as they can afford.  Mainly, fixed income clients.  So they want to keep the tubs, which is usually not a good thing.

    I start by stripping the tub alcove to the studs.  Pull out the old insulation, if it's an exterior wall. 

    Install blocking material all around the tub, so the blocking is within an 1/8" of the tub flange.  With the walls open and your surround kit on hand, measure the small part of the panel that will lie against the back wall.   On the back wall, add additional studs to where the side panel will end (Remember to add 1/2" for the greenboard.)   This will hold the roofing nails used to fix the side panel to the back wall during installation.  Now is also a good time to add blocking for grab bars, if they are to be installed.  Mark blocking location on the ceiling  above, if possible.  I also make a framing diagram prior to closing up the walls, as well as take snap shots.

    Reinsulate.

    Check the studs.  I fir/shim out ALL studs till they are dead flat plumb and in the same plane as all the other studs (or as close as possible.)  (I take a 2x6 and rip shim material, depending on how much I'll need.  Rip more than you think you'll need.)  I usually fir out so the greenboard or backer is fully over the tub flange to prevent the backer from bowing at the bottom. 

    Using GE silicone II door and window caulk, caulk around the flange, sealing the blocking/tub joint.  With the caulk still 'wet', take roofing felt about 12" wide and flash around the tub.  Overlap and double the areas where the joints will lie, and don't forget to flash the front apron of the tub.

    Install greenboard or cement backer.  I've used both and prefer the backer for use in front of the tub.  For the greenboard, don't forget to use J-channel along the bottom edge, and use setting compound to finish it.  I go ahead with all three coats of compound, and prime the walls twice with a good SW drywall primer/sealer.  Some references say you don't need to finish the walls behind the surround, but I figure a finished wall will hold adhesive better than one that's not.  Or I could be out to lunch.

    After the drywall/backer is up, run another bead of caulk.

    Test fit the surround panels.  Tape the panels to the walls (I use blue painters tape for the test fit, and duct tape for the actual installation, knowing I will have some tearoff when it's removed from the walls.  It holds inifinitely better.)  For the plumbing stubs, I've tried different methods for getting as small a hole as possible in the right spot the first time.  One job I taped together a complete template of the wall and transcribed it on the end panel.  Another job had short piping stubs, so I was able to take vertical and horizontal measurements and accurately marked the hole locations.  Another job I set the panel against the stubs and snaked my arm between the panel and wall and marked the location with a Sharpie.  Whatever you do, use a hole saw, even if it means springing 15-20 bucks for a 4.5" saw for the shower control (or whatever the faucet installation instructions recommend.)  Starting drilling from the back, stop when the hole saw has kerfed the fiberglass.  Finish the hole from the from the front, drilling into a solid block of wood to minimize blowout.

    With the panels taped in place, go buy enough 1x4s and 2x3s to use while propping the end panels in place during the installation.  The instructions may recommend this as an option, but in my experiance, it is not an option, it is mandatory.  As a minimum, I tape 2 1x4s (with carpet remnants tacked on) vertically to each end panel.  Measure between the 1x4s and cut the 2x3s 1/2 - 3/4" long.  Depending on how flat your walls are and how much flex there is in the panels, you may need a third row of 1x4s.   Mark the 2x3s and remove the whole mess.

    Buy extra adhesive.  HD sells the 'tub surround' liquid nails.  I recently installed a five panel surround and used five tubes doing it.   I've used three to put up a three panel surround, but wish I had more.  Have five on hand and you won't regret it.

    I try to follow the manufacturers instructions as much as possible, but when I apply the adhesive, I apply it in a herringbone pattern to prevent trapping any condensation.  Be generous around the plumbing holes and along the edges, and leave gaps along the top for the fumes to escape.  Put up and tape the end panels.  Using roofing nails, nail the side panel to the back wall.  This seam will be covered by the back panel.  If your walls are not square, you'll be glad you added blocking at this point.  If you didn't, you'll wish you had.  With the panels installed, I use a j-roller and roll out the panel, starting from the middle and working toward the edges.  Then add the 1x4s and 2x3 props.  When you are satisfied that the panels are tight to the walls, walk away and don't come back for 24 hours to let the adhesive fully cure.

    Remove your props, apply adhesive to the back and install iaw mfgrs instructions (they may have you pull the panels away after initial setting to allow fumes to escape.)  Once the back panel is taped in place, use your j-roller and deligently roll it out until the panel is set.  Walk away for another 24 hours.  Add the third bead of caulk along the bottom, and I seal the seams based on the manufacturers recommedations.

    I hope this helped.  The procedure is time consuming, so be prepared.  I didn't want to be called back to install a whole new surround and backer, so the time spent up front has been worth it.

  7. rez | Feb 21, 2003 09:30pm | #14

    The best I've seen and used for your specs is a pliable plastic one piece three wall covering that comes with formed in soap lips and handle. Maybe 1/8" thick with a durable gloss finish. 2 years and still looks good. Built for a standard 5 foot tub, it comes with the corners slightly rounded and rolled in on itself to fit in the 6 foot cardboard box it came in. Sorry, can't remember the name and that particular big box went out of business.

    It was an easy install and like the no seams plus the thickness of the product. I know I'm going to kick myself for not keeping track of the manufacturer next time I do one of those. Definitely worth looking into.

     

     



    Edited 2/21/2003 1:35:54 PM ET by rez

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