Replies

1. 
   Piffin | Nov 28, 2002 08:30pm | #1

   Most modern Tudor detailing raises a lot of risks for water penetration. I don't have any drawings. I have seen failure of the wood when builders failed to backprime and then installed it over the stucco. It rotted from the back in only seven years.

   I like the look of a Tudor but it is not easily compatable with modern techniques, IMO without a lot of expensive flashing details. Maybe this will bump the message to the top of the list to be seen again.

   .

   Excellence is its own reward!

   "The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.

   The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."

   --Marcus Aurelius

2. 
   stonefever | Nov 29, 2002 06:19pm | #2

   Piffin's right about the "expensive flashing details" necessary with tudors.

   I lived in a new built one for 15 years.  What a hassle regularly going through, replacing the rough sawn boards, caulking, digging in deeper to replace rim joists, extended deck joists, doorwalls, and on and on.

   A great builder built the house, but it seems only a few know how to effectively flash these beasts.

   What it takes is: at EVERY horizontal board, a saw kerf needs to be made that extends into and beyond (but not by much) the "stucco" hardboard.  The entire section above that kerf (3, 4 or even 5 feet up) needs to be carefully pulled out enough for a custom fit Z flashing to be slid up just behind the pulled out section and sat upon the top of the horizontal board.  The bottom leg of the Z flashing is relatively short and sits exposed flush on the outside surface of that horizontal board.  Then the above pieces need to be reset and all nail holes repaired.  Now I say "custom" flashing because the thickness of your boards and hardboard (or other material serving that purpose), can vary. 

   The vertical boards don't get this treatment because the next horizontal board below it covers the wicking action.  However, these vertical boards remain susceptible to water infiltration, warping, creature infiltration and such.  The heating and expansion effects from sunlight beating down will destroy whatever caulking you use (although I must admit, I never used urethane caulk). 

   This is a more appropriate job for a remodeler than a new build cause these steps just don't fit in well on new work.  Although a foresighted builder fully understanding the process could make it work on his new work jobs.

   Yes, it's going to be expensive.  But not nearly as much as what you'll spend over the next 15 years in caulk, replacement boards, etc.

   As much as I love the look of Tudor's, never again!

3. 
   Ragnar17 | Dec 04, 2002 09:54am | #3

   Mike,

   You didn't specify whether you were working on an existing house, or starting from scratch.

   I agree with everyone here that flashing a half-timbered wall is not easy.  However, I think you can save yourself (and your house) a lot of abuse if you can provide large overhangs at the rakes and eaves of the house --- that is, if you are in a situation to do so.

   I'm attaching a (large) photo of a "Tudor" in my neighborhood.  Interestingly, the style depicted is technically in the Arts and Craft family, built in the 1910s.  A "true" Tudor would have abbreviated rakes and eaves.  It's a beautiful style, and no one can fault you for wanting to build one!

   Regards,

   Ragnar

1. 
   Ragnar17 | Dec 04, 2002 09:56am | #4

   Photo didn't upload first time...... here it is.

2. 
   msparacio | Dec 05, 2002 06:50am | #5

   Ragnar,

   Thanks for the picture! Fine looking home.  In answer to your question this is to be new construction. 

   Perhaps you can recommend exactly how to flash the timbers or where I can find some good diagrams/illustrations?

   Secondly, what type of wood is typically used between the stucco?  Cedar ?

   Mike

1. 
   Ragnar17 | Dec 05, 2002 08:06am | #6

   Mike,

   I don't have any diagrams or anything like that to send you regarding proper flashing technique.  I would just treat each horizontal piece of trim like you would an exterior head casing on a window: use a z-flashing that has one leg behind the stucco, and the other two legs protecting the top part of the trim piece.

   The house in the photo was built in the 1910s.  It probably has no flashing whatsoever.  Being in Seattle, the trim is probably fir.  I've even run across some houses here that had fir siding!  Cedar would probably be a good choice, too, maybe even better. 

   The original construction of the "half-timbered" look in Seattle generally consisted of lath and "plaster" applied between nominal 1x trim pieces.  I've never done exterior plaster/stucco myself, but I don't see why you couldn't nail 1x trim onto the sheathing in the pattern you want, and then apply the metal screens and stucco on the fields inbetween.

   Just make sure to provide those overhangs on your roofline, and it will really help protect these vulnerable spots on the house.

   Ragnar

1. 
   WayneL5 | Dec 07, 2002 02:05am | #7

   My boss has a tudor that was built only 9 years ago and had extensive water damage from leaking between the panels and trim.  As others said, flashing is a must.

   Another thing you can do is not use wood for the trim.  A synthetic material won't move and check so much with moisture changes and it would be easier for the flashing and caulking to stay effective.  I think with Hardie Stucco sheets and synthetic trim (even something like Trex), you could make it work with proper flashing.  But, attention to detail is everything.

1. 
   ClevelandEd | Dec 07, 2002 02:22am | #8

   synthetic slate roofing - I don't like its appearance.  It doesn't look very much like the real thing, especially after just a few years of weathering.   It looks too uniform and as if made of some kind of non-natural material. 

4. 
   riverr1 | Dec 07, 2002 03:42am | #9

   I'll probably get my head ripped off for this, but building codes have destroyed a properly built Tudor. Find one 100+ years old and look atfor the flashing. Beyond this, I would suggest a book rather then Q&A's.

   Don