Tyvek install. Would you accept this?
Gunner
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
Went by the new house tonight. They finally took off the wrong wrap and put on the Tyvek. Well they didn’t install it correctly. None of the seams are taped. And they cut off the Tyvek at the window instead of wrapping it inside the window like the instructions call for.
Alright I know you wouldn’t accept this. But how would you let them fix it? Or would you make them redo the whole thing?
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“Everything is under control. I’M gonna go make some pies now.” Dinosaur 07
Replies
boy is that picture small ;)
them pain meds must be affecting your vision eh? lol
I thought that I resized several. Then when I went to upload that one I saw that they didn't resize. I thought that it had been aborted but it wasn't.
I actualy stopped the pain meds a couple of days ago. I just use them when I sleep now. Not that I'm any smarter without them. LOL
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
yeah I figured it was just an oppshope the ribs are better
I know the feeling all to well
The ribs are doing good. I'm a little surprised at how little they hurt without the meds actually.They hurt when I put pressure on them naturaly. But not everytime I move like last week.
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
that's good to hear. when I busted a couple ribs it took about a month before I could say they improved enough to even walk normal. looks like your in good hands for your house with all the talent here. best of luck with the build and I look forward to seeing the progression. just don't go off the deep end with anxiety. btdt and it ain't worth it. stick to your guns with a calm attitude and you'll most likely prevail.
Be carefull with your ribs. I re-cracked mine after a few weeks pulling on a wrench.
If I remember right it's 60 days to a full repair of cracked ribs. Then you can return to full duty.
I agree completely with you on the JOB DONE RIGHT. The boys just like to pound nials. Can't blame 'em.
Thanks. That's something that I really have to watch myself on. Over doing it.
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
typical half-educated home-owner being a PITA. The poor builder....
Yea. I'm embracing my role to the max. :)
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Can't find the thread to your comment, is that a joke?
I was just screwing with gunner
the seams can still be taped but I hope you know that tape isn't cheap. maybe they'll balk at using it due to the cost?
other than a few wrinkles I think the wrap will work as is. use I&W on the side jambs and sill by lapping it to the tyveck. the head jamb needs the window flashing under the wrap so no issue there. the real concern should be how they do the window install. nail flanges or wood frames?
just my .02
I don't care what the tape cost. They priced it at $1,300.00 extra to install it. The tape is part of the install.
What's I&W? I believe the windows are going to be nail flanges
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
It doesn't look all that bad. I have seen worse.
I would put a strip of Ice and water on the sill, that wraps up the jack studs and also onto the Tyvek.
Then after the windows are installed use the window tape on the flanges, starting at the bottom and working up to the top.
Whats the siding going to be? Vinyl? If so have them put in window and door pans before the windows are installed.
Matt
They do use ice and water shield. I've seen it from a distance on their other houses. Whether they install it correctly or not I don't know.
The siding is going to be all brick.
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Yeah, with brick you definitely want the seams taped. With plank siding the siding will help hold the seams closed, but with brick they're apt to stand open.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
I have only gotten to post 27 of the 90 (so far).
I would not allow them to install windows without the window wrap in place.
Maybe you are lucky. Maybe they are installing the "new" Tyvek window wrap, and they just have not put it into place. Maybe they are getting the Grace window dressing ready to put into place. Perhaps they lost the primer for the Blueskin. Maybe.
Around here, also, that would not pass the framing inspection.Quality repairs for your home.
AaronR ConstructionVancouver, Canada
My current job is an on-site observer for an achitectural firm and I think that calling out a potential issue (read as PROBLEM) should be done when you see it, not when they are finished with what ever they are sequencing.
I prefer to pose my "call-out" as a question...."How are you going to handle the header thickness differential?", or How will you meet the manufacturers install specs for the window openings?, rather than "This is wrong!"
You are making the call, so be prepared to show cause and produce printed proof of your reason for the call-out. For you there are several good sources that will substantiate.
Do not lay it off to an unofficial source such as another carpenter or to Breaktime as most of us have never been published or hold a professional arcihitect/engineers license. Not that we are incorrect, we may not be able to be substantiated in what we write on this forum.
A web site is often available to print out a PDF for manufacturer's specs or an associations means & methods. The breaktime crew can lead you to a potential library/book resource.
After seeing the framing errors, your mention of having brick veneer finish strikes fear into me! If the masons are as sloppy as the framers then you will have a leaky moisture ladened exterior perimeter that will leave you with multiple problems in the future.
Read up now on how the weeps, thru-the-wall flashings, lintels, rollocks, head flashings, air space, control/expansion joints and wall ties should be done.
Brick is usually thought of by homeowners as a "waterproof exterior", but is actually a water reservoir that requires water exit pathways.
Keep a mild mannered demeanor for you have the ultimate weapon, the checkbook!
Be constantly vigilant!
Or you will screw yourself!
...................Iron Helix
Thanks man. I've never seen them use tape on their house wrap joints. One of my reasons for worrying about the way the wrap is on is like you say. Once the brick goes up then you have a big mopisture dam. Brick is something else I need to study up on.
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Whale Oil Beef Hooked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Google up "Brick Industry Association" , then at the header tool bar click on the "technical" button which will take you to an opening page that will tell you how to buy a down load (PDF) containing all things listed in the index, which is viewable for no charge.
Or pick up the phone and hit the 1-800 number and have a real person to direct you to what is needed.
Or visit an architects office library.
Or a college's resource stacks for references used by architectural students.
Or, give me a ring and I''ll copy some materials from the architects office that I work for and forward same.
Don't delay...the most important steps for the mason are at the very beginning!!!!
Even on commercial jobs with suppossed "professionals" I often spend hours on site just for start-up and for specific areas of concern.
....Do not feel bad about "dogging the methods and means" while still being pleasant, firm and helpful in providing information that will steer the workmen to the expected level of performance on your house that you expect to spend many years inhabiting.
...............Iron Helix
Thanks.
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Whale Oil Beef Hooked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
I'm sure we have some good mason's on here that can help you with the Brick details, I can't think of anyone off hand though...
Two of the things that I've seen causing the biggest problems around here in regard to brick are lack of weep holes at the bottom, or weep holes that while well intentioned became clogged.
The other big problem is around window openings. Where there is either no flashing over the joint between the frame and the brick or the horizontal cap row (doubt that's the proper term) is either tilted in towards the house slightly or is dead flat so water can't shed.
I bet Bob Walker would be the kind of guy to drag in on this. I have to figure out how to get hold of him.
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Whale Oil Beef Hooked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
And don'r forget Grant for the copper thru flashings, he makes em for the brick guys around here.
Really? I didn't know that.
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Whale Oil Beef Hooked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Yeah, ya need a thru flash above say the porch roof line, or wherever a brickwall passes by the wood frame where the weeps have to dump out rather than go down all the way.
Oh man...DO your self a favor. Use Copper step flashings, and counter flashing on the chimney. Ideally, the counterflash is installed with the brick courseing, but copper can be put in the same slots that the roofers may cut for the Alum. I assume they'll use.
Them thin alum steps are junk IMO. Copper is gonna outlast the shingles.
We're not getting a chimney.
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Whale Oil Beef Hooked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
There goes Santa Claus visits.
I thought for sure ya were..hmmm..oh well..good, less to flash.
It's just something else in the way.
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Whale Oil Beef Hooked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
I'd not have a house without a chimney, just "in case".
But I like cutting firewood and all that stuff.
I DO wish we had OTHER heat tho', along come March. I am done having fun by about then..LOL
Gunner's gonna have one of them fancy condensing wood fireplaces.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Nope, he's more of the Yule Log on TV kinda guy..LOL
Hey J, got any advice on bricklayin' for Gunner? Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
Snort,
Sorry about the late response; I've been out of town with no access to the internet. I have two pieces of advise for Gunner.
First, assume nothing concerning the masons. Masons are trained to lay brick and block and they often have poor flashing skills. Go over the details with the architech and spell them out to the masons beforehand. Be there as often as possible. Take an active part in the flashing installation, if possible.
Second, think about getting Christine Beall's Masonry Design and Detailing. You might be able to get it at your local library. Also, check out Masonry Construction magazine: http://www.masonryconstruction.com.
Flashing. Got any pointers?
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Whale Oil Beef Hooked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Go with the classics -- London Fog.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
LOL, hope I wasn't the only one who got that.
jt8
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner, liberty is a well armed lamb protesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin
Went over tonight to look at my sister and her husband drywall. Walked over to our house to have a look. The Tyvek is a little better looking. I have a feeling they ain't gonna tape it unless I tell them too. Do wrinkles make a difference in Tyvek? Does it need to be flat against the wall. I'm thinking it does but don't want to say anything until I'm positive.
I also went upstairs and saw that our huge bonus room got turned into a hallway. The Mexican framing crew was still working on the house next door. I blew a gasket. I just stood there cussing up a storm. I know they heard me. By the time I was done they were all in their trucks heading down the road. Probably a coincidence but I'd like to think they were never coming back.
I also noticed that none of the plumbing walls were 2x6's. Maybe the guys haven't been here long enough to know about indoor plumbing yet. :)
Here's a couple of pictures.
View Image
View Image
View Image
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Whale Oil Beef Hooked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Wrinkles don't hurt.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
xcept for the resulting folds that can collect water.
Just fold 'em down and secure with a bit of tape.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
yep
I told gunner that but you beat me to it. great minds and all that?
house looks great! if any of the wrinkles cause a crease or fold that can collect water slit them open lay flat and tape closed. or fold it over so the pocket is facing downward and tape that closed.how'd the hallway happen? someone can't read prints? you going to have them tear it out I imagine?
That bonus hall is SWEET!!!you will be able to store a whole lift of 2x4 16' in there!!!Hows the ribs bro?.
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Pants???I Don't need No Steenking Pants!!!
Yea We are gonna have the biggest coat closet in town.
Ribs are healing. Very slowly though.
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Whale Oil Beef Hooked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
They say vitamin E oil is good for wrinkles.SamT
BoTox injections.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
I love you guys.
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Whale Oil Beef Hooked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Hall to where? What's the layout up there?
Joe H
It doesn't look like yer in terrible shape or anything out there Gunner. A little sloppy, but I doubt it'll fall down on ya. The Tyvek is rough looking but if the windows are detailed properly you should be fine even with the wrinkles. And truth be told, I have never, not once, been asked to tape the seams on a Tyvek job. I've offered (for a price) and been declined plenty of times though.
But that bonus room.... the hallway there..... WTF were they thinking man? Oh right..... they weren't.View Image
It's been dubbed our bowling alley. The super saw it today and is going to have it fixed tomorrow. I guess he was shaking his head and using the same swear words I was.
I'm going to take one of our guys over there this weekend and have a look. This guy used to work for a framer that I really respect. A Ky. version of you. I asked him today if he'd have a look at it with me and tell me where I'm being too picky and where I need to speak up.
I've got another question. What about using regular nails in the ACQ treated wood along the sill? Do you ever worry about that? It was mentioned earlier in this thread and I was kind of alarmed. But then I got to wondering if it's really that big of a deal.
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Whale Oil Beef Hooked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Edited 8/23/2007 7:46 pm ET by Gunner
Hey..yer in LEX tomm?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you never had, do something you've never done"
Yea I think we are going to start about three in the afternoon and remove undercounter and alarm stuff from the teller line. Then go back Saturday and reinstall it after they put in a new teller line.
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Whale Oil Beef Hooked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Gee boss, ya think Fri afternoon is a good time? LOL
Have fun, glad yer back in the toolbelt agin..
I'm hanging in the shop under a cieling fan.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
I'm on light duty. Not too bad so far. I had to do a lot of walkign today which really kicked my azz. Hurt daddy bad.
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Whale Oil Beef Hooked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Yes, it is a BIG deal...especially since you have a bricked exterior and any kind of moisture at the mud sill will cause the steel nails to corrode away in a short time.
Stainless is the ONLY corrosive proof fastener to be used in ACQ.
I've seen coated, "Approved For All Treated Lumber" fasteners significantly corroded in just 18 months after installation in ACQ lumber.
Pull one of those little labels off the end of a treated ACQ board and read the back of it! The treater says the same...minimum is HD Galv....S/S is the best!
Hot dipp galvanized will last less than 20 years in CCA before heavy corrosion occurs in damp environments. ACQ is 5 to 10 times more corrosive than CCA.
Pull up the tyvek skirt on this lady you are building and install SS nails/screws !
....................Iron Helix
While I understand your point, I personally feel that SS is too soft for framing nails and is often overkill in some situations. A "potentially" damp environment (like a mudsill) and a "wet" environment (like a deck on the beach) are two significantly different environments. I'd sleep fine with true HDG framing nails in the ACQ in Gunner's particular situation. There's just about always a way to do something "even better" but often it's really not needed. IMO, SS nails in a mudsill is overkill.View Image
Nice methods to isolate the ACQ!
If I desipher Gunners profile correctly, he lives in Kentucky which is included in the mixed humid classification.
Lots of rainfall and humidity with a brick veneer and a questionable framing crew with poor means and methods.
Does Gunner want a 30 year home or an 80+ year home? Water intrusion is the most common downfall of a house? I guess I've been in too many crawlspaces/basements to see how easily lack of maintenance and vigilance allows water to take its toll.
It's Gunner's call....he has our opinions.
..............Iron Helix
Yeah, I shouldn't have singled your comment out dude, better safe than sorry anyway. My bad.View Image
No sweat here....Iron Helix
I'd want to see ACQ rated nails in the PT dude. If you haven't seen it yet, you wouldn't believe the damage that crap does to common nails... and alarmingly fast too. It's an easy cheap fix so I'd have it taken care of if I were you. Also... that 2x6 bearing wall in the basement... did they swap out that 2x4 plate yet? That bugs me.View Image
So what do they have to do about the nails?
I looked at the plate last night. They ripped aa bord down to make up the width and stuck it in beside the 2x4.
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Whale Oil Beef Hooked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
That rips is probably fine. Kinda hack, but at the end of the day it gets the job done.
Which nails are you referring to? The ones in that bottom plate? Or the ones making the joist to sill connection?View Image
Joist to sill connection.
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Whale Oil Beef Hooked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Tough call. PIA to get nails in there now, but it can be done. Problem is that there's just not a whole lot of room in a 2x10 for twice the normal amount of toe-nails. More than three nails and you've got a good chance of just blowing the crap out of the joist and doing more harm than good. What I'm saying is that if they've already got 3 commons shot into them, and then you tell them to go back and shoot 3 more HDG nails in too.... you're not going to have much joist left than isn't split. Follow?
I guess you need to make a decision about how bad you want it fixed. If you really want something done about it, your best solution at this point is probably hardware like a small Simpson framing angle where you'd be using (most likely) a palm nailer to run Teco's into the sill and into the side of the joist. Lotta work and they'll hate you for it..... up to you whether or not it's worth the effort and aggravation.
We use two sills. First sill is PT and sits on sill-seal which sits on the 'crete. Second sill is KD and is nailed to the PT sill with HDG. Now I can put away the galvy nails for awhile and don't have to pull them out again until I'm popping of the last row of nails on the bottom of the sheathing... nailing it to that PT mudsill. This way my rim joist and common joists are all nailed to KD instead of PT. View Image
I was thinking brackets are the easiest way. I don't care how hard they work. If they want to learn how to build a house they are going to have set backs like this. :)
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Whale Oil Beef Hooked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
BTW... check your email... I sent you something you might want to see.View Image
Got it.
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Whale Oil Beef Hooked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Coolio.View Image
Interesting about the Tyvek tape or lack of in your area.
Here in Wilmington (world headquarters for DuPont, manufacturer of Tyvek), it is much more common to see seams taped.
Maybe it's the roving Tyvek QC guys who pull up and yell - "Ya know we don't warranty it unless the seams are taped, right? Somebody's out getting the tape now, right? That's good, carry on!"
Of course all of the local hacks are using spotty applications of brand X house wrap anyway to avoid harrassment.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Went over tonight and they broke out the tape and taped the seams. I was kind of surprised. But then I got to looking at the rest of it and now I'm confused. They are either retards, or they are breaking my balls. I'm getting a little sick of it. It's just house wrap for christ sake.
Here pictures can explain it better.
View Image
View Image
View Image
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.walkmoreeatless.com/
time to break out the special term when quizing the foreman ...
throw a coupla "azzclowns" at him.
they'll straighten up.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I'm fixing to be one of "Those" customers. From what I heard the Supervisors reply was that Tyvek was supposed to be cut flush with the windows. And that Galavanized nails were only specified in acq that was used out doors. He's just popping out answers to explain the framers stupidity. Damage control. I stopped by a tract home development they have going on in town here and they aren't using galvanized in their sill plates their either.
The windows never got flashed on the bottom either. So theirs where Azz Hat will probably start getting used.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
I'm fixing to be one of "Those" customers.
Oh great, now there's going to be another GC on here bitching about the HO from hell! Just what we need, dont expect us to stick up for you either!
Cant you just try and get along for Gods sake.
BTW, your tyvex looks like shid
Doug
I don't know. The way it goes around here the poor guy would never survive the dope slaps.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
I'm not saying this is the case on your house, but I know that the newest PT on the shelves of many lumberyards doesn't require Hot-Dipped fasteners anymore - corrosion issues were figured out.
That PT is typically a bit lighter green in color, thoughJustin Fink - FHB Editorial
"Everybody wants to know what I’m on...
What I'm on? I’m on my bike, busting my ### 6 hours a day…
...What are you on?"
- Lance Armstrong
Justin,
As that is an important turn of events could you elaborate a bit more?
Thanks.
See what you guys are missing by not subscribing to the magazine? Gotta get your subscription if you want to stay on top of the game. The times they are a changin...always.
Osmose and Arch (2 of the 3 major treatment companies) have rolled out new lumber that's not corrosive to standard fasteners or joist hangers. The companies have different methods, but one replaces the copper with other chemicals, and the other reduces the size of the copper particles to a scale that no longer causes corrosion problems.
you'll see brand names of Smart Sense, ProWood Micro, YellaWood MCQ, MicroPro AC2, Wolmanized L3 (cubed), etc. Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
"Everybody wants to know what I’m on...
What I'm on? I’m on my bike, busting my ### 6 hours a day…
...What are you on?"
- Lance Armstrong
See what you guys are missing by not subscribing to the magazine?
I do subscibe but where do I read about the treated wood and the other info that you've mentioned.
Sometimes I just look at the pictures so maybe I missed it!
Doug
Ya gotta read the captions too.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
Issue 188, pg. 25 (Cross Section)Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
"Everybody wants to know what I’m on...
What I'm on? I’m on my bike, busting my ### 6 hours a day…
...What are you on?"
- Lance Armstrong
"corrosion issues were figured out."
yeah ... sure.
U go ahead and be the test monkey.
anyhoo ... now that I got U on the line ...
I have this bridge for sale ...
it's real nice.
and some slightly damp swamp land too.
and for the record ... just 'cause U saw it in print ... don't make it 100% true.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
"and for the record ... just 'cause U saw it in print ... don't make it 100% true."And since we are here on the forum for a Homebuilding magazine.. I am going to add...Just cause you PUT it in print, doesn't make it 100% true.;o)(generic 'you'...)
Yeh... That'll work.
that should go even more "without saying" ...
but it don't ...
and needs said!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Which PT is lighter in color? Mine or theirs?
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
no
That is sad!
The tyvek is what separates your house from wind and water intrusion! Without a sealed tight envelope there will be problems!
Check out this months issue of JLC to see what an improperly installed barrier can do to your wonderful new house! Show it to your contractor. Stand your ground now!
Raise the bar...hire an architect to inspect and make a written statement concerning all the construction issues....take that letter to your legal counsel to craft a letter and have it delivered by hand with receipt.
................Iron Helix
I don't get JLC I'd love to see that article though.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
19.00 for a year IIRC, I just subscribed awhile ago. Good rag, better than your tyvek..Snork.
Ithink they're bustin ya...tote the 50 cal next visit, go Rasta Honkie on them. iF that fails, sic the wife on em, that always works.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
It's a great magazine. I let my susbscription lapse like FHB. I'm going to pick them up again after I get moved.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
PS Mail me yours so I can check it out. I'll get it back to you.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
It's worth a trip to the magazine rack.....Barnes&Noble, etc.
Page 55--Rain Screen Retrofit. Thumb it.. It is worth $5 to drag back to the job-site to show the construction crew what we are all screaming about on the tyvek and wrap&sill pan issues!
Stick to your guns about the ACQ and steel nails...bad news electrolysis, even at low moisture content in the ACQ. Especially at the "mud-sill"where all the leaks end up when the envelope is improperly installed! Treaters and manufacturers all agree.
..................Iron Helix
PS...put the checkbook away, too! No fix--No pay! Poor building practices are not part of the contract you signed!
I have not seen JLC on any of the newstands around here.But you can buy the issue via the website.Or buy and download the article.http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jlconline.storefront/46eda21c0011c53527177f00000105a3/Catalog/Archive2007September
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Thanks Bill I'll do that. Sphere is a slow mailer anyway. LOL
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
I'm curious now. I just ran across this on the Universal forrest Products page. Scroll down to where it covers dry use applications. Tell me what you think.
http://www.ufpi.com/literature/acqfastener-216.pdf
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
This consideration has come up on the commercial jobs that I have been the designers On-Site Observer (read "inspector').
The statement of no corrosion is coupled tightly to a mandatory "less than 19% MC of the wood". The take on this statement for the contractor/installer to answer is....."What are the chances of the installed ACQ wood coming in contact with water liquid or vapor that would initiate/cause electrolysis?"
Foundation mud sills, framing members at all exterior pentrations, bottom wall plates at basement/garage slabs, subfascia boards, rafter tails and valley boards, flat roof blocking, plates at bathrooms/laundry rooms/sink installations, roof pentration framing and more are all suspect.
When there is a water barrier failure or vapor condensation at these types of areas then the ACQ will become reactive and the fasteners/plates will corrode unless stainless.
Most retail lumber sources do not stock KDAT ACQ, so the treated that arrives at the building site is usually totally saturated and will take at least a full year to fully dry once instally in a totally dry and conditioned space. During the dry time the electrolysis will continue and compromise incorrect fasteners installed in the ACQ.
Now take these complicated "if conditions" and hand them to your house crew. What do you think will happen? You have problems with a simple application of Tyvek, so I would expect to see your ACQ to be installed with whatever was in the framers pouch at the time. Would they change the nails in the nail gun or just keep up the usual "lock-load&fire'?
The most straight forward way to deal with this is to say....All ACQ wood fasteners will be stainless and all metal sheetgoods other than stainless or copper shall not be in direct contact with ACQ lumber.
Other wise there would have to be an inspector/mediator for ACQ wood applications at all times during framing. Stainless fasteners are not(with specific exception) magnetic so a small hand magnet would tell the curious if the fastener installed is steel.
In general this complicated and frustrating issue is best handled by the insistance of the minimum standard of hot dipped galvanized or the truely non corrodable stainless fastener.
You do expect to live in this house for more than 30 years without a major repair?
Diligence and perserverance!
...............Iron Helix
As soon as I get time the supers going to meet with me and hash it out. Now I just have to make time. Hopefully Friday.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
PS got a moisture meter you can Fed Ex me? It would be fun to know what the Moisture content is.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
Yes I have a moisture meter...but I don't loan it out. Replacement cost is $395! A good rental place will rent you one!
In regards to the article in FHB about the 3 new types of treated wood....
MicroPro and Wolmanized L3 and Purewood
"In fact, the're all OK to use with standard joist hangers and aluminum flashings" says the article and one paragraph later states that MicroPro is "no more corrosive than CCA."
I know from on-site experiences of demolition of 20 year old exterior structures that CCA will corrode hot dip fasteners to the point of failure and in moist environments will eat away at aluminum.
So I can't agree with those statements in the article.
Their availability as a commonly stocked material by local lumberyards is debatable. I have seen none of the mentioned products in any local yards or the big boxes in 4 adjacent towns. ACQ (wet) is what is on the shelves.
Lastly, there is no track record of the performance of these new products in the real world of construction...time will tell.
Each treated board is labeled with a tag....very rarely have I met a lead construction worker that has read both sides of the tag, let alone even knowing there is an informational tag there.
Water is the ultimate weapon of destruction that mother nature sends against a house!
Ignorance is the greatest man made enemy that your newly constructed house has, for it provides easy access for the water and an early demise.
.............Iron Helix
I've looked high and low around the site for a tag and can't find one.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
I usually go looking for the offall pile or in the dumpster bin!
Where are they ordering the lumber from? Take a drive to the lumberyard.
The tags are about 3/4"x 2-1/2", stapled to one end of the ACQ board. Both sides of the tag are printed on...the warning side is almost always down and the upside tells the mill/treater and the concentration of the type of treatment.
...............Iron Helix
I couldn't find any scraps either. They are using pretty good lumber from a reputable yard in Louisville. In fact one of their salesmen posts here. I'll have to shoot him an Email and see if he can snag me a tag.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
Iron Helix. Went out tonight to look around and did find a tag on an installed piece. I pulled it off and read it. Sure enough it calls for galvanized and stainless fastners. Itsays nothing about inside or outside. I put it back so I can pull it off later and use it. I want to be able to pull it off in front of the supervisor.
I wasn't going to push the point but since I got dismissed so bluntly I'm going to push it now.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
Yeah, how did your meeting go?Thought you'd be interested in this thread. Regular nail left sitting on top of some ACQ in a garage, not exposed to the weather. I don't know squat about this other than what I read here, but I'd be insistent on using stainless fasteners if it were my house. After all, you are paying good money for it, no harm in asking that it be done correctly.http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=92277.1
Thanks. I haven't had the meeting yet. My Preck of a boss made me work Friday. He let another guy off that has been there only two weeks.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
Google Brick Institute.IIRC they have tons of details posted on all kind and places to fash and all of the different ways to do bricks around a window, etc..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I know you were setting up a meeting for Friday----did it happen?
Did you manage to sneak a peak at the JLC article? The tyvek install, window flashng, and termination of tyvek at the sill are tremendously important issues.
The JLC article was about a 10 year old $600K house in Vermont that had improperly applied tyvek, window flashings, etc and the resulting fix was $80K. The article would be quite a lever when talking to the contractor about his potential liability.
.............Iron Helix
See my response to Steve above. I paid for the article and downloaded it. I'm looking for one that shows proper window flashing with Brick. Got any leads?
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
Well, this is FHB, not JLC, but there are these articles on my Best Of dvd:Flashing Brick Veneer Walls (yes, there's a section on windows and doors) -- by Douglas R. Stieve -- Oct/Nov 2001Built Wrong From the Start -- Douglass Lstiburek -- April/May 2004 -- there's a bit on flashing brick walls to the foundation.Installing Housewrap -- Rick Arnold/Mike Guertin -- March 1997 -- this definitely shows folding the wrap into the window/door openings.Making Sense of Housewraps -- Fernandoo Pages Ruiz -- Feb/March 2006 -- 'Poorly installed housewrap will cause more problems than it solves.'
I've got my site membership so I should be able to look them up on there. I've seen the two on the Tyvek. I haven't seen the ones on the brick flashing.
I need to get in touch with Bob Walker. I guess he doesn't look up here anymore. I bet he has all kind of good links and stories on this topic.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
Somehow brick flashing makes me think of the story about "bricking" a camel.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
I looked up those articles and saved them for printing later. Through the power of the Breaktime nation I was able to acquire the Email address and Cell phone number of the local Tyvek rep. I'm told she's pretty passionate about her product. That will be a big bonus on getting this BS resolved. Maybe score a T-shirt. As long as it's not made out of Tyvek, that would be itchy.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
Head back to message #80...drop me a line if I can assist you with the info you need!
I'll be headed into the office on Monday..there is a reasonable library I can access for illustrations to send your way!
...................................Iron Helix
Got a meeting set up for Thursday morning. I'm getting my ducks in a row. Wait a minute. I only want them to use basic common sense. There shouldn't be any ducks to get in a row. LOL
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
Don't forget to print out and take with you, all your pics as well.They'll hide what they can. Deny what they can. Etc.
Yeh... That'll work.
Don't forget to bring a duckboard in the event it starts getting deep.
sobriety is the root cause of dementia.
Thursday 9:00 am anyone want to come your invited. Donuts at the door. From what I was told tonight the super is bringing all his literature so he can educate me on why the way the Tyvek is done is the correct way. I was also told that the brick is on the lot. I mentioned that The brick needs to be done right with proper flashing and weep holes. I had to explain what I meant by flashing. So here we go again.
As far as the tyvek argument goes I keep trying to get them to take the Tyvek name out of it and think of it as what it is. House wrap. A better grade of house wrap but house wrap non the less. The guy is screwed either way. My house and two others on our street are done wrong. One street up they are done correctly. He either has to admit that mines wrong or the one they just did is wrong. There is zero wrapping or flashing on any of the insides of my windows just bare wood. Nobody can tell me that's the way it's supposed to be done.
I'll be surprised if my name is on this house after Thursday. Especially when I explain to them that I want the bonus room walls moved back to where I told them the first time, because I want them to hit center of the rafters to eliminate any sagging caused by snow and ice load. Right now even after they moved them after they turned my bonus room into a hallway they are nearly three quarters of the way up the rafters.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
Take some pictures of the gang and the proceedings. THAT'LL put 'em in a good mood...;o)
Yeh... That'll work.
I need to snap pics with my phone then upload them. Then get someone to call me a minute later and start laughing hystericaly into the phone. Say something like. I told you I wasn't kidding they really think that's how you do it."
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
Dude, just beep me, I should be around eithet Boonesbough or Lex.
I take it you found the "Big Hill" today?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Yea we found the big hill today. Installed a package receiver in a brick over cinder block wall. They don't make or lay brick like that anymore. And I'm glad. Wore me out knocking it out of there. Well it mostly wore my helper out.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
Proper flashing? That's when the other bricks in the trench coats show up, right? LOLGood luck. Yeah take some photos and don't take any shine from those boys. It's your money, and they surely can't be the only builder in town.
You know me. It's full guns or nothin. Actually what they told me tonight is they want me to show them what I want and they will try to accomodate me. I just forwarded Duponts 50 something page residential flashing guide to my wife to print out tommorrow at work. That's all I want do it like the book says. :)
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
you got a link to that book?
I'm on my way out the door. I'll get it for you tonight.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
smooches... have a good day at work honey
Here you go snookems.
http://ap.stop.dupont.com/Tyvek_Construction/en_US/assets/downloads/InstallGuideFlashing_K16280.pdf
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
graias senor
Hey, Gunner-
hope the meeting went well, and you convinced your builder to take care of things.
His wife hasn't bailed him out yet.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
Now that's funny right there!
sobriety is the root cause of dementia.
It's lunch time and he's not back yet!!!!
Not a good sign"No doubt exists that all women are crazy; it's only a question of degree." - W.C. Fields
He's renting a backhoe for a midnight excavation....
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I have Transcended the need for Pants....oooohhhhmmmmmm......
Maybe the Tyvek fairy has him all wrapped up in her web?
They didn't know what to do with me. I have to paraphrase Kid Rock. They ain't never met a muther ###### quit like me.
I had to go into work and load up a trailer full of cabinets that I was taking to Lexington to set. So by the time I got loaded I was running late. The helper they gave me was a guy named Justin. He's a good guy and he used to work for a framing company that I really respect. And can't afford. When I did residential electric we used to wire their homes and they always built to the highest standards. He actually ran a crew for them. He really knows his stuff. And I've had him out to the house to tell me if I was going overboard on my expectations or not. I really value his opinion. Anyway the boss told me to stop by my meeting on my way. No problem.
We show up fifteen minutes late. The broker, the supervisor over my house, and the framer were waiting in the garage for me. The framer is an old drunk who took over his sons business when he accidental overdosed on coke last year. The guy has three or four crews of illegal aliens. His involvement is to drink beer and sign the checks on Friday. Total waste. Even the Supervisor was kidding him about getting up before noon.
Anyway we show up, I had my agenda but it went right out the window when I got out of the truck. My switch went on and I was in high gear. I walked up to the group, shook hands and they all kind of shut up. Like they didn't know what was going on. I kind of stood there for a second and realized we weren't going to have donuts and do hand puppets so I kicked it off. I walked over to a window in the garage and asked why there wasn't any wrap on the inside or flashing on the sill? The Super walked over and stated that they weren't supposed to do that because the window people told them not to. "Why's that?" I asked. "I don't know they just said not to." "Hmm. Alright, don't you think it would be better if you had wrapped all these windows and gave the moisture a place to escape instead of sitting on the wood and rotting?" Eyes started shifting. Then he tried to tell me how they wrapped the window. I asked him what about the moisture that builds up if the window leaks? He just gave me that. I'm stuck look. I pointed at a house they had just framed down the street and told him that that house had their windows wrapped. "So one of these houses is screwed up. Which one is it?
Then the framer tried to bail him out with some off the wall bull. I stepped outside and pointed up at the Tyvek on the house and said. "I don't know who did this ####" The the framer tried to cut me off by screaming (I'm not making this up) "My guys did that." I never acknowledged him. I kept going. "But it's the most ridicules thing I've ever seen. Come here and look at this. Part of it isn't even under they chicken boards. That ain't no good. Look over here there's a big patch missing. All those wrinkles are going to trap moisture. This is ridicules." I looked over at the framer he was trying make small talk with Justin.
I took off into the mud towards the back and said. "Come back here and look at this." I got to the bottom of the slope and looked up and they were all standing there in there white tennis shoes looking petrified. I hollered up. Come on this is the worst of it. Then I just went to pointing and calling out problems. Finally the super tried to tip toe through the mud without sinking up to his ankles. I'm down on the bottom declaring that this is the biggest joke I've ever seen. The framer was trying to flank around the mud but he gave up and went back to the top. I missed most of this because I was in the zone. Justin told me about it later.
Then I pointed to the bricks laying there and told the super. I said. "Look if you put those bricks up and they get wet, the sun comes out where's the water going to go? Not towards the sun. Towards the back. Then what? Gravity takes over. We have to think of this house as a giant waterfall. And we have to redirect the water away from the house and out. Does that make sense?" He started stammering. "Yea your right." I said. "Look they give wrapping the house to the stupidest guy on the crew because it's considered a basic skill. These guys totally messed it up." They all were on the same page with me on that. They wouldn't give me a firm answer on what they were going to do. By this time we were back up in the garage. I then walked into the house and pointed to the air returns that were using the framing as a chase. I said. "Look Paul your going to have your heating and air guys pan this in so the moisture from the air flowing doesn't build up condensation and rot out my studs." He looked surprised but acknowledged that I was right. I pointed out the rest of them so he understood.
I pointed at the ACQ and asked them what they were going to do about the nails. They both got lippy and started shouting (No kidding) "Those are the right nails, you only have to use them other ones outside." The super offered. "Our lumber supplier told us so." (I know that's a lie. I called later and asked.) Anyway. I said. "I've got a fact sheet from the American wood council in the truck that says specifically that you have to use hot dipped galvanized or stainless fastners on ACQ lumber. They both shook their heads defiantly. The framer yelled. "It's too hard to drive a nail in that wood." (If I had it to do over again. I would have called him a hack.) I walked over and plucked a tag off the end of a 2x4 and handed it too him. "Read this. The manufacturer says only hot dipped galvanized or stainless nails and fasteners." He shook his head like I was forcing him to eat spinach . I said. I was out here Saturday and pulled a nail out of that stud and it's already corroding. The didn't blink. I asked. "Do you want me to pull out some more?" They shook their head no. The framer turned around and went to his truck and left. I hollered. "It was nice meeting you Earl!" I wasn't doing this in a mean spirited or factitious tone. It was all matter of fact.
I told the Super he had to do something. About that problem. "Can you imagine a whole subdivision filing a class action suite?" I asked. He literally hung his head. And shook it. Keep in mind this guy is only one super out of probably a dozen. He could do a way better job but he's not running the company either. My personnel opinion after today is that he shows up for the Home builders association breakfasts and his paycheck. But I'm biased now. I had to point out the missing drip edge in different spots little stuff like that that told me he never really looked at the house.
Then we moved on to flashing and weep holes. That's when they lost their spirit. The Super and the broker were totally lost. I had to explain it in very simple terms what I wanted, how I wanted it done and why it had to be done. He wasn't all that interested. Justin said later it looked like I had kicked him in the nuts and he was trying not to hurl in front of everyone. I was amazed that they had never flashed a window or door. I stopped and offered my reason for being the way I am. I said. "Look. My wife and I want to live in this house for fifteen or twenty years and then buy a town house. When I pass this house on I want it to be just as solid as the day I moved in it. The stuff I want to fix now will ensure that this house will be just as strong in a hundred years. And now is the time to make it that way. While we've got it open and can do it. We can fix drywall and trim, and paint screw ups easy. But we can't take the skin back off this house and fix it after we seal it. They both nodded their heads like it was clicking finally.
I went back to the flashing I explained the waterfall theory again in great detail. They acted like they understood. then the super said. Well I'll have to run all this by Jerry to see if it's something that he wants to do. I said. "He'll agree or I walk." I then told him I had some literature that I printed out for him to read so he'll understand. " Oh that's alright, I've got plenty of that stuff." I told him he was going to take it anyway. That way I knew that he had the info on hand.
I got to go to bed. Tommorrow I'll tell you about the call I got from the local Tyvek specialist. They want to use my house as an example and training tool for this builder. New code change effective November 1st is going to require everything I've been asking for as far as flashing and sealing.
Edited to add: I ain't going to all the trouble to edit the little grammer quirks. Night John boy
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Edited 9/27/2007 11:44 pm ET by Gunner
Edited 9/27/2007 11:55 pm ET by Gunner
Has the adrenalin subsided yet!
Good for you gunner, sometimes you punch someone in the gut to get your point across.
Doug
Edited 9/28/2007 12:05 am ET by DougU
Goodnight johnboy.Waiting for the next report..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
shid man, I gots to go to bed and you got me all riled up with that discourse.
sobriety is the root cause of dementia.
Man, you must be a great sleeper. I would be up half the night after that on lol. No need to tell you but I believe in standing my ground. Fix it or we'll take another direction. Good job. DanT
Uh...we was just kidding. Everything on your house so far is fine.
Geeze Rez, who'da thunk he'd take us so seriously?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Snork. The only drawback to all of my antics was I my boots were covered in mud. I didn't really care at the time. I just jumped in the truck and drove to Lexington. I was in the bnk working for about an hour when Justin pointed out that I had dried mud everywhere. Especially all over their new carpet. I vacumed that place three times. But I'd do it again just for the looks on their faces when I was standing down looking up like they were all a punch of panzies.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
LOL. Remind me to tell ya story about muddy boots..when were face to face..I'd get banned here.
You workin today? I'm up in Lex in about and hout and half.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Take a read at message #95028........more cannon fodder!
I hope your "meeting" will garner you the results you want....but probably will get you the run-a-round...time will tell!
Keep us posted.................Iron Helix
They called me today with an offer. They will correct everything that I want fixed the way I want it fixed. For free. But if anyone asks I can't tell them it was free. Then they made the statement that. They didn't agree with what I was saying. But they were doing it to keep me happy. I didn't promise anything.
I got to cut this off. Wife wants to take a ride and look at the beast. I'll finish later.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
But if anyone asks I can't tell them it was free.
As long as they put it in writing that they will fix everything for free, I don't see a problem with that. Lets them save face and keep you happy."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Ah, but he just told us.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
>> Ah, but he just told us.Ah, but we didn't ask. Eric
You guys are just words on a computer screen. They didn't say I couldn't talk to my computer.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Is the tyvek rep going to do a show and tell for them?.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Yep. She seems to be on the ball and aggressive. Five minutes after I left the meeting she called. She apologized for taking so long but she had been out in the sticks and just got around to me. She covers 100 counties. I told her no problem I took care of myself. I told her the highpoints. She said that she wouldn't have a problem meeting with me next week and going over my house with me. I told her my schedule was so whacky that it would be better to do it on the weekend. She said she was flying out this weekend to some function but would be getting back in Sunday at 2:00. Would I meet her at 3:00? I said no problem.
She also said that the timing was perfect because November 1st the new national building code was changing and pretty much everything I wanted would be code and they would have to do it anyway. And since our builder had been expressing interest in switching to Tyvek from pink wrap it would be a great chance to educate his people on the proper flashing of a window. If I wanted, she would set up a date with the builder and use my house as an training tool to educate his people. Show them the proper technique and then they could have at it. I said great. She said she would run it through the channels and see if it would work. I'm pretty dam n impressed.
Winstall set me up with her. I can't say enough about the guy. I already promised him the big chair on a platform at the house warming. The guy has helped me big time twice now on this place by giving me solid info and contacts from an insiders point of view. He's a good guy to know.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
They shot out a price to tell people. $100.00 a window I think it was. I'm not going to lie about a price to anyone. I might tell them to educate themselves. The people they are concerned about are the ones that are building the same house plan as ours down the street. We are a little bit ahead of them (well not for long as our house is on hold until the BS is fixed.) But they come down and look at ours often to see what's going on and see what's next for theirs.
They will notice. And they will ask. I'll just tell them. Check into it. Flashing is the only way to go.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
OK Let me finish this off.
After the first call I went back to work. Installing a Bullet resistant window actually. Anyway It hit me. They never said anything about the nail problem. I called back and asked. Silence. Very long paused. Let me explain again that I have to do everything through the broker. Who is also my sister. You can't contact the super directly. I can understand that, because they would be getting calls from all kinds of crack pots at all hours of the day and night. You Know people with the nerve to want their house built right.
Anyway She blew up. Started telling me that I didn't know anything about building a house and they built houses all the time and did a good job. I replied that their subs built their houses and they went along with whatever their subs said. And from what I have seen their houses suck. Then it got really nasty. She insisted that there was nothing wrong with the houses they built and they didn't go along with what their subs said. I explained to her. I said look. "Before I said anything about this I educated myself. And I am one hundred percent sure of what I am telling you. I wouldn't say anything unless I had my #### together. I'm not going to tell you something and have you blow me out of the water on it. If I tell you something it's a fact." It's a very frustrating position for her to be in. Selling these houses are her bread and butter. And then her brother comes along and throws the whole thing out of whack. I mean if what I am saying is sinking in. They have to be worried about the potential to be in a big mess. You hear about developers going bankrupt over stuff like this all the time. I ain't on a crusade. They can do whatever they want. But my house will be built right.
A couple hours later she called and said they would fix the nail problem too.
I called the local code enforcement office. Of course the inspector for our house was out doing inspections. I left him a voice mail and asked him to call me. I'm going to ask what his policy is on stuff like the nails and such.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Ahhh, the joy of working with family. I suppose the only thing worse than being an employee of a family member is being a customer of one. All basic human decency goes right out the window, and it goes straight to vicious family squabble land.
On a different note...
After being here (on this forum) for a couple years, I had to replace my furnace. Talked to three companies. I told each company that one of my deciding criteria was seeing an actual example of their work, they could pick the client and put me in touch.
The first company I checked out, the person was the salesman's sister.
I went up into her attic, and saw that one of the supply ducts had popped of the funace. Nice work guys! I politely told her to call her brother to have their crew double check their work.
Next companys work looked great. The people who's houses I visited each got a $20 bottle of nice wine or champaign for their troubles.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
If your hair looks funny, it's because God likes to scratch his nuts. You nut, you.
You are right about working and buying from family. My wife is the one that insisted on breaking the rule. She's closer to my sister anyway. My sister is a drunk who can't handle her liquor. I don't have a lot to do with her on a social level because before long alcohol works it's way in and because she can't handle her liquor there is always some sort of incident. Both of my sisters are like that. I can't stand it. But we have always been good neighbors. Her husband is a great guy, and we get along great. They live three doors down, and are building a house next door to our new place. When theirs was being framed I advised them about flashing and house wrap but since they both work for the builder they are drowning in the kool aid and just shushed me.
She was at the meeting yesterday and a couple of times turned to the supervisor and asked. "Is our house built like that?" He tried to smooth it over. But she seemed more then a little worried.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
I haven't kept up on the whole deal and missed the sister thing. Ugh! My sister doesn't really like me anyway although we are civil. We see each other at family events and occasionally in public by accident. I can't imagine handling what you are dealing with. Good luck. You are sure doing a good job so far though! DanT
It doesn't bother me too much. She would do the same thing for me. We are very much alike when it comes to standing up for what we believe in. She may be harder to sway. I remember when she turned eighteen she insisted on registering for the selective service. I don't know about now, but then females weren't required nor allowed to register. The letters she would ge were pretty funny. It was a year before she gave up. Her husband and my Mom also work for the same outfit. That's the only reason I'd consider such a poor choice. And I am getting a discount because we are related.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Yo Jo and I made a decision tonight not to have them build the extra deck off the back. What do you think? Deckfest? It will be fair sized. I'll try and round up some numbers this weekend. Go to go layout the lighting system.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Count us in. I always wanted to build a deck, never did..LOL Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Deckfest. With inexperienced DIYers.Sounds like reciepe for a DIY show. One that shows NOW not to do it.Fortunately I will be far enough away that I won't get hit by any debrie from falling deck <G>..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Wait until I call him out on the carpet for the shoddy workmanship. :)
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
I went out this morning to do a walk through for the scene lighting, alarm, and sound system. There is a pretty big deck package sitting out in front of the garage. Too big for the covered deck off the great room. Maybe it's a peace offering. LOL I actually believe it's for house next door. They just poured their driveway and probably didn't want the all that lumber sitting on it.
.
"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
dibs on supervisor and beer holder...
OK that's three of us then. You, Sphere, and myself.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
For all the hectoring you get here, the least I can do is stand around and tell you it doesn't look right :)Besides, now that someone has volunteered to hold my beer, count me in if you get serious.
Cool. We'll build it the day after you run the Ironman Louisville. Wait we better do it the day before. LOL
I was doing the home automation walk through this morning and the guy pointed out that my steel support posts were undersized. He just got gigged on it by a home inspector on a house he sold. it says right on the posts how high you can let the screws out. Mine are about three or four inches over on a couple.
I want to check into it more before I bring it up but it was funny the way he casually mentioned it. I was telling him about my other issues and going on about the Tyvek and the nails and he calmly pointed down the stairs at my Lallies and said. "Add those to you list too." I said. "What?" Then he took me down and showed me the tag on the post and told me how when he went to sell his house which had just been built the home inspector wrote them up. His builder had put them in and never considered reading the tag.
See what you get out of it. I'll show a picture of the tag. Craig said that he believed the tag showed you can screw it out four inches. You see in the second picture that they are screwed out 6 inches. I didn't take a picture, but some of the posts were screwed out to 7'4" or 7'5" tall. So either way they are over.
Most of the company is down in Destin Florida for a big get together retreat thing. Think I should Email this find to them there? Or wait until they get back? What's a good title for the Email? The framers name is Earl if you want to work that into it.
I brain farted and uploaded one of a hole they left in the roof sheathing. I guess they couldn't figure out how to connect to the wall. I have some more of those for later.
View Image
View Image
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Edited 9/29/2007 3:51 pm ET by Gunner
Edited 9/29/2007 4:57 pm ET by Gunner
Add this to the e-mail and really freak them out. Include a simple comment such as: "If all else fails, read the directions".
http://www.icc-es.org/reports/pdf_files/BNBC/ESR-1767.pdf
BTW, if that is the finished floor, that's the wrong product. That screw is supposed to be encased in the concrete pour.
Also, do you know if there is a footing under that point?
Edited 9/29/2007 4:17 pm ET by RalphWicklund
That is the finsihed floor. And yes there is a footing under that point. I have pictures of it somewhere.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
BTW Thanks for the PDF.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Call me crazy, but I thought a lally column was a 4" pipe filled with concrete that has a plate welded to the steel beam, and the other end has a plate sitting on a footer..under the slab.
WTF is a JACK being used for? That is a jack, not a lally.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
What diffeence does that name make if the engineered load is less than the 'jack' will hold per lable?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Your question is worded odd..but what I am saying is a Jack is not a lally, about the load, I don't know whats the deal. But from my past exp. a lally is permanent, a jack is a temp support or a jack.
And if it is , I'd want to see the threaded part up top, I can see a rusting screw in mind ( no wisecracks please, lol).
Don't you install true lallys? The right way?
edit: ok, never mind, I went back and read what Ralph was getting at..but I still think it is a cheap-out.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Edited 9/29/2007 4:50 pm ET by Sphere
For locations of extreme load, we use the real concrete filled with cap and base welded on.But for most things like this, we use the jacks with threaded end on top.On one job where we did that, the owner asked about it, because he had been involved in some Habitat for Humanity projects in NY. They were required to turn them with srew end down on the footer, and pour the screw into the slab so it ould not be changed or accidentally kicked out
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I called it a lally. My mistake. The PDF Ralph posted also says the screws go on the bottom. I'm a little hesitant to have the base poured in concrete I'd like to get back at the screw end and be able to turn it later if I had to do a little raising.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Gotcha...you're contagious..I was ready for a azzkicking contest..Pif set me straight..but I still think the screw should be up top.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Here we use the jacks with the screw on top, but the base poured in.
Yeah Brother! What you said! Yeah, do it right, yeah. LOL
edit: I can just see Gunner wiping out on his tricycle and taking out a post, fwooom, down comes the house..(G)
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Edited 9/29/2007 5:06 pm ET by Sphere
Edited 9/29/2007 5:06 pm ET by Sphere
They are anchored to the floor with anchors, and to the beam above with lag bolts.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Hey, it's your crib. If yer happy with that, so am I. I'd just do it differently, maybe right , maybe wrong..but different.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
I think it looks odd with the screw on the bottom as well. Wouldn't you want the load point at the top, with the entire column supporting it?Reminds me of the old philosophical discussion with the Hindu fellow, where he states that the earth is supported on top of an elephant, and the elephant on top of a tortoise. When questioned as to what the tortoise was standing on, he remarked 'suppose we change the subject.'
I don't think it makes a bit of difference struturally whether the screw is on top or on bottom. Either way, that 3/4" threaded shaft is supporting the load
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Edited 9/29/2007 7:42 pm ET by Piffin
All,
Did anyone else just notice a sudden surge of extra screen space?
Nope.
Whatcha looking at there Imax?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Something happened to piffin's purple banner...it shrunk up
An oddity of BT. When some posters edit a message, thier tagline reverts back to default font and size, and some don't ( mine ferinstance)..
But if anything of Pif's has shrunk up and changed color, I'm not so comfortable knowing you knew about it (G).Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
He forgot his Viagra this morning
I like screw at top too.You will always be different
;)'Course your mother probably tod you that, LOL
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Well, some like the bottom, some like the top.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
Uhh I just got back.The wife wanted to go out and do some measuring. I decided to show her what I was talking about with the jack heights being to tall. I stretched the tape out and said. "Look. it's 7'4" She said. "Your tape is bent dumb azz." I straightened it out and it was 7'1". So technicaly they are in spec.
Sorry I blew up.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
So what yer saying is that other than being upside down they are fine?
be upside the headSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
From what I read on the spec sheet Ralph linked on the bottom is what the call for anyway. My plan is to build a 2x6 wall along that beam anyway. To seperate the mechanical side from the useable side.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
My plan is to build a 2x6 wall along that beam anyway. To seperate the mechanical side from the useable side.
Yeah, I wouldn't want to look at upside down posts either (G)Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Hey! I fixed the post for Gunner!
Now get him to send me $$$
View Image
Eeeexxxxxxcellent!Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
I'm betting you aren't going to have many $$ left after he back-charges you for removal of all those scraps and sawdust you glued to the ceiling...
Yeh... That'll work.
Dang, maybe he won't notice with a heavy texture...
I bet you couldn't sleep in that house knowing they are upside down to you. Could you? :)
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Not the way you snore, I couldn't............lol
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
ya he could.
He sleeps knowing there are snakes underneath his floorboards.
sobriety is the root cause of dementia.
And wasps in his soffits.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Not to mention bats in his belfry.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
Snork.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Why was this post suddenly added to the structure?
Is it indicated on the plans?
What is the load that the post is actually supporting?
This seems out of place in a new incomplete structure.....Iron Helix
PS ...the roof details are alarming! Contrary to standard means and methods!
Water intrusion guaranteed.
Edited 10/1/2007 11:19 am by IronHelix
The post is called for in the plans. I need to go look at them again and make sure they are using what the drawings spec.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
I thought the question was the difference of being screwed out 6" instead of the max permitted 4"?
sobriety is the root cause of dementia.
Well that's another thing. Isn't it? That's what the guy told me he thought was what the inspector gigged him on. He actually got the guys builder.
So are you saying they can't be screwed out 4"?
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
I don't know. Was just reading what you said in the post.
sobriety is the root cause of dementia.
"So are you saying they can't be screwed out 4"?"
If you look at §4.2 of the ICC report it clearly states that the posts must be installed according to the manufacturers instruction and that the screw portion of the post must be encased in concrete. This is also called out for by the manufacturer.
My guess is that the screw is not really intended to bear the full load of the column without the lateral support that the concrete would provide. If you pour concrete around it, the screw cannot kick out to either side. I would expect to see a much larger screw if it was supposed to be exposed.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
I don't like the idea of encasing them in concrete. They are anchored to the slab already. So they aren't going to go anywhere.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
I understand that. I don't think the base will come loose. The question is whether or not the screw is capable of holding up any load on that post.It's also unlikely that those posts will ever see 13,044 pounds. I would think that you will only have half of that loading, but that's just a guess.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Wait. I just re read your post and what you are saying sank in. Gotcha now. That is something to consider.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
If the screw is up tho...it won't tend to 'hinge' as easily if ya whack into the post with a whatever moving stuff.
seriously.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
You have a point.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
There is a structural reason the specs call for a max of 4" screw exposure. The easiest way to demonstrate the idea is to grasp an ordinary coat hanger between thumb and forefinger of both hands, with the opposing digits of both hands touching, and bend the coat hanger. Then do the same thing with your hands about 4 inches apart.
Just because the post comes with a certain excess length of threaded rod doesn't mean you can or should use it to make up for installing the wrong base length of column.
In spite of the availability of these adjustable columns, many jurisdictions will NOT allow them as permanent supports. They are only used temporarily until full height columns with permanent flanges can be fabricated to fit.
You might consider checking that with the powers that be in your area.
If you are allowed to use the adjustables in that configuration - not encased in a slab - but with a proper thread exposure, then you might be required to deform a section of the threads with a cold chisel to prevent any inadvertent post installation "adjustment".
O.K. so you read it in the specs about the 4" exposure? I have to go back through and find it. I'm concerned about having too much thread out and and not having lateral support if something should happen. Say an earth tremor. Prepare for the worst.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Page 2 of 5
Right hand column
Paragraph 5.5
Thanks. You will make a great legal secretary when I start my new homeowner consulting business.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Will work for sammiches.
I can afford that.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
I'm wondering if the max height adjustment is 4" because that's the structural max for the materials used or because most basement slabs are about 4" thick. If you go greater than 4" up than a typical slab would have some threads exposed.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Yes, we are very near the Madrid Fault zone, and other than that, if there is blasting being done nearby on your same rock ledge, you will feel it.
Didn't we have a quake of 2 0r 3 something about a year ago?
Look at Smitties quarter deck thread where he did the concrete garage floor with the control cuts in the slab around the post base. But then again, whaddoes he know? (G)Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Low and behold paragraph 5.5 I think it is of the manual says specificaly that you can't go three inches. If they were an inch over I wouldn't care. But they are way over.
And to be fair they probably have never been called out on something like this. It's obvious that local code enforcement doesn't know about it. But then again, why would they? It's a manufacturer spec. I'll have to figure out a way to be tactful I guess. So the Email won't be titled. "Another of Earls hack jobs uncovered."
This stuff is starting to get old. Jo and I looked at several houses yesterday in our new neighborhood that these guys either have completed or are completing. And every one of them has the final grade at or above the weep holes in the brick. You can't mulch any of them. Now I know why my little old house and the others on my street that were built in the late sixties all have their foundations so high out of the ground.
The bad thing is I had her so close to giving up on these guys last night. We looked at enough houses that she can call out problems by herself pretty well. Then we stopped by a house down the road that is being built by a builder I respect. He's the guy I posted pictures of that had wrapped his Tyvek the right way. Anyway I had her all hot and horny for the way this guy does stuff. We were looking at the place and I was pointing out all the good things. He caulks every crack from outside to inside that any air might penetrate. I took a couple pics that I might post later. Anyway she asked me if he was using galvanized nails in his ACQ? I looked and said. "Uhh.....No." Now she's wondering if I'm the only one that's worried about it after seiing a guy I respect so much not using them either.
She's starting to realize something she really wants, might not be a good idea. But she's also trying to find a way to get it. I'm at the point where I'm realizing I don't want to put the time and effort into babysitting so many Pros. And it's turning into the nosey homeowner who's bucking the system. But I have to be that way. One of the things they keep trying to tell me is. It's alright it will be covered under warranty." And it blows their mind that I keep telling them that I never want to use the warranty. I don't want this stuff to fail. Warranties are for appliances. Crimeny. Look how long it took to get them to come out and aknowledge that the wrap job sucks? And look what I had to go through to convince them.
If Mike built my house the only problem would be the trail of people I would be bringing through to show off the work.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
I hear ya brutha. Dunno how to help ya, but if I could, I would.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Gunner my man.
If you are borrowing to pay for this place, add the interest to the total and let that sink in.
Don't be the homofromhell, be the guy that wants the best and proper use of the material that's going into that mansion.
A good window installed well will last a long time.
A good window installed poorly will fail in (14 yrs if last wks repair job is any indication).
The proper post length is something that doesn't cost even pennies more to be right. Too bad taking down the wrong ones and installing the properly spec'd posts is gonna cost them money.
Same with the tyvek.
I'm sure the contract has to have some language pertaining to workmanship and the quality of fixtures and material should be called out somewhere. Installed according to manufacturers quidelines means manu. warranty and hopefully troublefree use.
You are correct in now is the time to point out the situation (and probably for everydamnthing they put into the place), after that brick goes up the drain plane is inaccesible and all the weep holes in the world aren't going to mean diddly.
Best of luck, carry on.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Thanks Calvin. I appreciate you taking the time to look this over and voice your opinion. I've been around enough to know how to get what I want and how to get stonewalled. That's why I try to get in depth with my facts before I say anything. Like the post length. I could live with them being an inch out of spec. as a compromise but three or four. I don't think they would want that in their own homes. And that's the attitude I try to have when I find something like this. If they new this was wrong in their own home and had the info would they want it fixed? It's a delicate balance. But then again like you said in the beginning this place ain't cheap. So I'm not accepting cheap.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
The temptation will come to start accepting some faults as the pressurized complexity of making so many important decisions starts to become deafening. Don't give in. Whether in the big stuff or the details.
Or next thing you know you'll be seeing two 4ft pieces of trim used to cover an 8ft length.
True dat. Very true dat.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
I ought to deck you...i've actually got experience. <G>
Don't sing it. Bring it.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Get your house built; i'll be down. I just love any old excuse to go someplace warm(er) in the winter.
Cool.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
"Babysitting the Pro's" - no s#$% that sucks. Got nothing compared to what you're going through, but I have a crew out front right now fixing the bond beam on the new paver driveway. They tried to cheat & stir a little portland into the gravel, soak & call it concrete. Busted them, they show up today with no mixer so I lend them mine - they decide to set up on a slope & it tips over into the garden with a full load. Yep, the blood vessel is just about popped. Super's gotta stay here all day riding their azz. Better him than me.
Thanks for letting me rant. Don't give up your fight - you'll never really enjoy your place if you know you let these clowns get away with sub-standard work that puts the structure at risk. Always in the back of your mind will be which thing is going to fail first.
I feel your pain.
I won't close on this house if there is anything in the back of my mind. I'm firm on that.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
"Low and behold paragraph 5.5 I think it is of the manual says specificaly that you can't go three inches. If they were an inch over I wouldn't care. But they are way over."
Gunner,
I don't want to come across as getting in your business, but I think you may be incorrect on the post height issue.
If you look at §5.5 of the
ICC-ES report you will see that series 200 posts (which from the picture you posted they are M-203) can go up to 4".
Now, if you look this picture, you can see that the threaded portion of the adjustment assembly starts right at the 2" mark. If your posts were completely bottomed out they would still be 2" off of the slab.
I think you're right to ask that the Tyvek be installed in shingle fashion, the Tyvek not have big holes in it, and your weep holes above grade. I really think the post is fine other than the bottom portion not being encased in concrete.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Back to studying. Thanks.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
You bring up a good point.
The best way to resolve that issue is to measure the distance from the floor to the bottom of the beam and correlate that with the post requirements.
If the tag on the post reads 6'9" to 7'1" then the measured distance must fall within that range in order to properly use that particular post.
Edit:
And while we're screwin' with Gunner mind....
What do the structural engineers calculations show regarding the loads generated above that beam? Is the spacing adequate for the number of posts and does the loading fall within the range specified for that particular post?
Edited 9/30/2007 1:57 pm ET by RalphWicklund
"If the tag on the post reads 6'9" to 7'1" then the measured distance must fall within that range in order to properly use that particular post.'I glanced at the report, but don't remember the details.Since the bottom is suppost to be covered with concrete and commonly that would be the slab with the footing below it, I wonder where that height is measured from?
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
" Anyway I had her all hot and horny for the way this guy does stuff."You had better watch it. Is he married?About the galvanized nails in ACQ. If I remember right you are talking about fasterns in "dry areas".I don't think that is as clear cut as exterior fastners.Water is needed for the corsion. I forgot where I saw this, but recently I saw one "source" (something more than just an idiot like myself spouting off, but less than an offical anouncement from a fastener or PT lumber supplier) that ordinary fasteners can be used inside.But the general though by most alert builders is to not take the chance..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
He actually has a prison record for some swindle he and some other business men in town were running. They were claiming to own land they didn't have then drawing government money not to grow tobacco on it. But he can build a heck of a house. LOL
In this part of the country I think the jury is out. Some use them, some don't. My reason for pursuing it is after actually pulling a few nails from my house, I can see corrosion starting on them already. A small amount, but it's only been a month and a half. Might as well nip it in the bud while we can.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
This is probably what you saw:http://www.ufpi.com/literature/acqfastener-216.pdfIt's from Universal Forest Products, seems to be a distributer
Barry E-Remodeler
Yes, that is it..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
That's the only one out of all the ones I looked at that says that. Then below that it says that the 2003 building code requires them. I've seen what a regular nail looks like after a month and a half after I pulled it out . I'm convinced.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Edited 9/30/2007 7:48 pm ET by Gunner
I just got back from meeting with the Tyvek pro. I have someone else to admire now. She doesn't talk smack. She knows her business. And like everyone else that I have brought to the house she found something else that I hadn't noticed. It looks like they are poised to flash the valleys all wrong when they finish them. I might have to bring you out to the scene. I need to bring a ladder out and have a closer look but from the angle we were looking at it looks like they are tucking the Tyvek under the flashing instead of over it.
She didn't want to get in the middle of it and bad mouth anyone, especially since this builder is poised to switch to her product. But she is going to try and get the actual builder himself. The guy that signs the checks. And show him what's wrong and how to correct it. She was pretty shocked to say the least. I thought I'd take some more pictures.
I brainfarted and loaded up a couple of the ice and water shield that were 2 megs. I won't copy and paste them here because of the size. Only the rich people can look at them. She couldn't get over how cheap it was.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Roofers don't apply drip edge before shingles in your neck of the woods?
Any sidewall flashing or step flashing against the roof/wall intersections?
Edited 9/30/2007 7:51 pm ET by RalphWicklund
You missed the post about last Thursdays meeting. They put some here and put some there. Just wherever they wanted I guiess.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
I don't know what's going on there. That's going to be my next battle. I'm thinking about shorting the jack azz 10 percent as my fee for building the damn house for him.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
So let's just say hypothetacaly that your roofer skipped around with the drip edge. How would you make him fix it? It's got to be nailed down under ther first coarse right?
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
I can give you the Florida perspective.
Rake drip is installed over the felt or underlayment and eave drip is tucked under the felt. Nails are 12-16" apart and the entire length gets a 4' wide strip of roofing cement into which the shingles are embedded.
Peel and stick is optional along the eaves as we don't get ice dams here. Peel and stick valleys are acceptable in lieu of metal but there has to be one or the other. 5"x5" metal flashing is standard for roof to sidewall flashing. That flashing must be in place for the inspectors by the dryin inspection - before shingles. A strip of mastic is also required. Step flashing is mostly unheard of because of that requirement.
How would I retrofit missing drip edge?
The roofer would breakout his flat bar and carefully pry out the nails in the first and starter courses and make it right.
Thanks Man.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Don't forget the "kickout flashings"
There have been some threads here.
Looks like you may have some areas where they will be needed.
If you need to search, use JHOLE as a search parameter - I did a little thread in the spring on retrofitting them.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
I'll look it up. I think I'm just going to project a picture of my attorney on the side of the house, so when a sub is thinking about cutting a corner or screwing me over he'll be reminded that I don't play.
Of course I'll never be able to get anyone to paint the house given his well known hatred for painters. :)
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Edited 9/30/2007 8:22 pm ET by Gunner
If they could figure out the housewrap they could cover him up long before the painter even arrives.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
I'll be moved in and they'll still be screwing with that house wrap.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
I might cut a deal with Dupont and see if they will start printing it on their wrap as a warning to anyone that doesn't want to follow the installation guidelines. Jeezus. Can you imagine a driving through a new subdivision going up with all those houses wrapped with his pic on them?
No one would sleep at night.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
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I don't know how you are going to address some of these issues and if liability concerns will creep in if you start correcting things yourself under the banner of 'I want this right and I want it done so I can get on with it.'
so I can't offer much help except to say that you may find it easier in some ways to just go in and correct some stuff, not specifically speaking of these tyvex or flashing details, on your own to get it done and the train running on down the track.
Not a cool thing as you are spending the bucks for something and not getting what you want but if things start getting too congested there are worse things than fixing it yourself to get it done and done right.
Years back buddy had hired a mason to lay the brick walls on his new two-story and the guy had set up his scaffold in process of the work.
Big storm blows in and I get a call late one night from buddy to see if I can help him secure the scaffold as he can't get ahold of the mason.
The mason had somehow just tied off one end of the scaffold and something underfoot had altered so now the scaffold is somewhat balanced as a teetertotter
with tension on the rope as it's leaning out and then the wind blowing in and making the scaffold move back in toward the house banging on the wall
then the gust stops and it leans back out to tension the rope again till the next gust that moves the scaffold in to bang the house again then back. Over and over like some perpetual motion wind machine.
bang bang bang bang
Mason who later turned out involved with a bunch of the shaky moneyshift rountine between himself, bankers, suppliers and starting new projects showed no response and uncaring when later told of the deal.
Buddy was mostly living with clenched teeth during all the time of construction and all I could tell him was a year from now you'll be sitting in there and what you're experiencing now will be just history and a memory.
So just do what you have to do to get'er done.
be advice from the peanut gallery.
Edited 10/1/2007 2:15 pm ET by rez
Hey c'mon a little reverse gravity and that stuff will shed water perfectly.
Actually if you just flip the pics everything is OK. Cake n Pie
Window flashing looks better, but now the clowns put the up tyvek upsidedown
Edited 10/2/2007 3:45 pm ET by bobtim
Not saying it's correct. Just that it's there <g>
Barry E-Remodeler
I did put in a call to the local building inspector Friday but of course he was out inspecting. I left him a voice mail. Hopefully he will call me Monday. I have a few questions to ask.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
That's a pretty common way of doing it here.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Hey Dude!
I've got an Idea if you have the time to do it. Write up a list of everything wrong that needs to be "repaired/replaced" Make sure there is enough space after each item for their explanation of the fix and their signature. For the most important items, require that they include a picture of the area fixed.
We do a similar thing with aircraft so nothing gets "forgotten". Very effective way to ensure that they don't cover up the errors and if they do you have something in writing to have them fix it later.
Something like this.....
Good luck
Bruce"No doubt exists that all women are crazy; it's only a question of degree." - W.C. Fields
Thanks man.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
I know this is huge but even if the language is french you can get the idea. Us any or all of these words to describe your day.
giggle."No doubt exists that all women are crazy; it's only a question of degree." - W.C. Fields
Reminded me of that old PinkFloyd tune.
be Sphere you know the one?
sobriety is the root cause of dementia.
Find Michael Nesmiths DVD "Elephant Parts" when ya get to the scene where he and she are in a restauraunt, and he is translating the words to the Mariachi Band..well, its the same as what Jet posted..LOL
Hmmm. Might be on youtube I found this tho'
http://www.monkees.net/nez/eparts.htmSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
I was thinking of something off Ummagumma
sobriety is the root cause of dementia.
I couldn't get it to play.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
BTW I realized later that I had incorporated your belt loops technique to a T. It works great.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Edited 9/29/2007 9:58 pm ET by Gunner
Buddy had a place built and the upstairs rec room he had designated certain windows in dormers at pleasing height for viewing the scenery woods out back.
Framer'd changed windows around too high without telling him and he let it slide, million decisions kind of thing. He's regretted it ever since.
He's regretted it ever since.
I said he's regretted it ever since.
If I ever want to get him going all I need to say is something to the effect of how neat it would be to have windows 'right here'.
sobriety is the root cause of dementia.
I bet he thinks you are such a pal..LOL
Did he regret it ever since?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
You are such a friend. LOL
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
I think I've got enough info for tommorrow. One question. Weep holes over windows and doors?
Anyone?
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
Sweetypie"Weep holes over windows and doors?"I hope that you are talking about the brick veneer and not the housewrap.Did you look at the details from the Brick Institute?I think that they call for them..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Yes I did look at the brick institute. And a bunch of others. They call for them over windows in commercial. But I was thinking that I saw somewhere not in residential. I might be nucking futz.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.commercynow
"I might be nucking futz. "What do you mean MAYBE?That that has nothing to do with weep holes or not..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Snork. I love you Bill. :)
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com mercynow
If there is a lintel or a through flashing, yes.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
cool.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
Let me check it out at the architect's library...maybe tommorrow...for sure on Friday!
.................Iron Helix
The big pow wow is tommorrow.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com mercynow
http://chrisdhilton.com/newsletters/weeping_over_weep_holes.htmhttp://www.fortifiber.com/pdf/install_guides/Brick_Veneer_Flashing.pdfAnd I am going to email you a pdf copy of chapter 7 of the IRC.It is the 2000 edition..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Thanks Bill. I stumbled on Chris Hilton the other day. Pretty interesting guy. Loves what he does.
Saved the PDF also. I'll print it in the morning and take it as well.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
The PDF that you have copied is similar to what I was going to garner out of the office library.
The devil is in the details....check the details every day to see that the workers comply. Arrive at different times and more than once a day, then come back after hours and be "nosey"!
Good Luck at the meeting!
I may have missed a step in this discussion, but weren't the PT corrosion issues you found on site limited to that support wall in the basement? I thought that was just temporary anyway?Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
"Everybody wants to know what I’m on...
What I'm on? I’m on my bike, busting my ### 6 hours a day…
...What are you on?"
- Lance Armstrong
No it's the whole sill plate all around the basement. The wall with the stairs is permanent.
Load me down with good info. I'm trying to set up a meet with the Super for Friday.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
You know. I'm thinking the Immortal Jim Blodget did an article on nail corrosion. Since I had the foresight to become a paying member of the site I can search for it. I'm positive that it was in regards to outside PT lumber though. Anyway I'll look it up.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
The Tyvek around the door is a disaster area which will require rework. The rip and flapping edges look like a judicious application of tape will correct.
Later post -- "no galvanized nails in ACQ unless outside." Suggest you visit the treated wood manufacturer's association website and do some printing to present to the supervisor (to further his education). Would also present him with some form in which the builder aknowledges receipt of information, and warrants the non-galvanized ACQ fasteners against premature failure due to corrosion - I think a 50 year warranty would be reasonable.
Copies of both to the company owner after a few days (assuming no results on site) might get their attention.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
I am trying to figure out why they are using tyvek if they are going to tear it to shreds and cut it short in the locations where it is needed the most.Some of what you have been concerned about here is not all that big a deal, like th e wrinkles only matter if they trap water, or a lot of wind catches the billows and makes it tear around the staples.But having no flashing pans under doors and windows is absolutely insane! I'd be making my guys take the doors and windows back out and install them right. Those openings are the prime ingress points for water. I gaurandamntee you will find rot right under them in ten years if this is not made right.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yep it's fixing to get ugly. I'm not going to put up with it.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
Tape up your ribs for the fight
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
LOL Think they'll just take off running if I show up with taped ribs and a mouth piece in?
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
I gaurandamntee you will find rot right under them in ten years if this is not made right.
Maybe his builder has a brother who does renovation work. In which case the builder is giving his bro job security.
jt8
"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly.
I said 'I don't know.'"
-- Mark Twain
Yea at first I wasn't really worried about the Nails. Now the response the super gave kind of makes me want to push for something like you suggest.
I ran a buddy by there today and on the way out spotted a house in another subdivision that is getting Tyveked. I noticed cruising by that the windows were wrapped correctly. I'm going to take some pics for my next Email.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
It's time dude.
Go there and lose your fricken' mind on 'em. If you're like me.... it only takes one time. Not because of how I blow my stack.... but because I rarely ever blow my stack on site. So when I do.... most everyone knows it's time to party. If you've been calm, cool, but businesslike with them to this point....... a good old fashioned verbal punch in the throat will work wonders.View Image
Yeah, i've had more people than I can count tell me that when I do lose my cool, it really means something because it is so rare.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
more people than you can count...it's so rare...does not compute Will Robinson....error error.....
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I have Transcended the need for Pants....oooohhhhmmmmmm......
Found them!These are photos of where I was one on vacation and the guys forgot to switch to SS nails to nail sheathing to the ACQ sill plate. This much rust in only a week or less with one or two rains.So I had them reload and renail with SS
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
Here's a draft of the Email I plan on sending in the morning. Let me know what you think.
I'll also attach the pics I attached.
Not trying to be a smart #### or start a big deal but the house wrap on our house needs to be fixed. The windows and doors were installed without the problem being fixed. They need to be taken back out and reinstalled with proper flashing. This is a basic building practice that I know is done every day. Even by your own crews. Any other subdivision I pass by that you guys are doing seems to be done correctly. I don't know why this crew is having such a hard time on our house. I noticed they installed the wrap on the two houses at the end of our culdisack wrong also.
Here's why it matters to me. Mold. In my last Email I attached the manufacturers instructions on how they want it installed. It has to be done this way in order to take advantage of their warranty. If I have a problem in a few years and have to take a wall down and they see the shoddy installation that is there now. I'm going to get laughed at. And it will be my fault for allowing it to happen.
You may not realize it but brick, vinyl, and other sidings are mostly decorative covers. Moisture is constantly present as the sun heats up and cools down. The house wrap creates a barrier that protects the plywood from this moisture. It has to be put on in such a way that the moisture will not be allowed to get under it and be trapped against the wood. Really it's very simple to install and I'm shocked that this crew has turned it into such a joke. I can't believe that they went to all the trouble to put the tape on the seams and didn't fix the rips or the spots where the Tyvek came up short.
The windows and doors are also areas that moisture builds and has to be addressed. Around our windows and doors nothing was done to allow the trapped moisture to roll away from the sill. The only alternative is for the moisture to sit there and soak into the lumber. That's where the mold comes from. I'm going to attach some pictures of a house that White Oak homes is building in the Subdivision across the street from Old Spring house. This is the way the wrap should have been returned into the window. Like I said earlier the crew that framed ours is the only crew I noticed that does such crappy work as far as the wrap goes. I'm sure that every time they have to go back now their attitude is going to be worse. But I don't care. This has to be corrected before the brick is put on.
I don't know if Paul Sr. has been out to look at the house but he should clearly be able to see the problems.
I just hope that the Brick layers know what flashing and weep holes are and how to use them. And that they have to be installed above grade not below.
I've also got some info on why regular nails corrode in ACQ lumber I'll pass that along as well tomorrow if you want. This is all stuff that can be sorted out fairly easy. Have Paul call me if you want. I can even maybe meet him out there one night if he wants. I don't have any idea what my schedule is but we can work something out.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
Edit that to "Cul-De-sac" so ya don't sound as if ya fell off the Pumpkin Truck.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Tanxs.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
Edit that to "Cul-De-sac" so ya don't sound as if ya fell off the Pumpkin Truck.
Thats about the funniest thing I read on here tonight!
I wonder what people think about my spelling and misQ's.
Doug
I've watched this post off and on from the beginning, and i was always told that if you can't say nothin nice ,keep your trap shut but...
your right these guys are idiots. We're just finishing up a job that we would never have had to been done if it was done right the first time. To make a long story short, no sill gasket, poor framing, a crappy job of building wrap, and caulking to hide it =
rotted wood a new $3500.00 bay window, framing, tyvek, siding and its done right the first time.
OH god i sound like mike holmes!
SEND THOSE GUYS PACKING!
Wait, Gunner blew a gasket ( at least it wasn't a seal) so his wife gave me POA..lets tear this up like good ol professionals..
Sill gaskets eh?
Ok, I axed his current wife, she "no worries" " I'll take care of that" " Now, that right here, has me concerned, she said sumpting about BOB inspecting the house and it's parts, and the Parts are "OK".
BoB left hurridly, I mean he booked when I showed up, I could not figgure out why he was wearing Gunners slippers, but I think it was the forecast of frost .
He hit my van and SeeYous truck when he slathered back out the diveway, but Seeyou got the # of his plate "TVEKGRL"
Of course, we were skeptical being as Halloween is nigh on the bight ( HOLY MACKERLE CAPT MAC IS HERE) and then CU wearing the Old T shirt Of CUVERDIGIS, bedazzleed the bejabbers out of the bejeezeeus of the benefactorious burglar'
So we killed him
shut up, you never read this, this is KY.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
After trying to read this last post by Sphere I can understand why you have a hard on for Kentuckians. Got any room up there in Ohio?
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
No Republicans.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I'm my own man. Besides they smell like rotten bananas up there.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Gunner, maybe everybody wont get that but thats funny!
lol. Yea that was a sleeper joke.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
and a good one I might add.
Did i say sill gasket?. I ment bitumen type gasket. it was a long week. There is so much wrong with this place that i loose track, but it's all coming together.
Went out tonight to trick out the electric rough in. The place looks impressive. It looks like a big Demo wall for a training seminar or something. There's a few wrinkles but they've come a long way.
.
"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
OOOPs.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
That's pretty good, it only took them a month to do day's work.
jt8
"Those who wish to sing always find a song." -- Swedish Proverb
be fair, might be 2 days. ;)
You're including the windows and doors.jt8
"Those who wish to sing always find a song." -- Swedish Proverb
They removed the wrap, windows, doors, and cornice. Then reinstalled them the right way.
I'm cheesed off about the ac return in the basement now. They ran it right threw the most usable part. Taking my nine foot head room down to seven.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
>> I'm cheesed off about the ac return in the basement now. They ran it right threw the most usable part. Taking my nine foot head room down to seven.
Hope that is not the beginning of them getting back at you for making them fix their Tyvek screw up. Like the cook who spits onto the sent back steak.
Just as I predicted. There's gonna be a dead rat in the wall somewhere.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
I hope not cause I can always call OSHA and Imigration.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Gunner, in that pic of the new wrap, looks like the head flashing tape is on top of the tyvek... say it ain't so Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
Glad you mentioned it, I was afraid to .
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Three or more minds run in the same ditch........A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Never be afraid. Speak your mind here. I don't want to waste a ton of time and money an F up like this rear up later.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Gunner see my message to snort. I have looked and looked at this , decided twice it was correct the way it is and once it was wrong. The time I decided it was wrong I changed my mind, but was still shaky on it. I am willing to bet it is done right as I post this.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I responded before I saw that. I'm pretty sure the Tyvek installation specialist trained them on the wrapping and flashing. I need to check with her. I've got these guys scared into thinking I know something. I don't want to shoot my foot off and blow any fear they have of my knowledge at this point.
When I have the big house warming I'd like all you guys to be there so I can introduce the real brains behind my persuasive rants. Then we can jump on them and kick their teeth out.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Gunner, Man I wish I could inspect that first hand. Hate to ruin your day, especially if I am wrong, which is why I hesitated to speak up. Either get your Tyvek lady out or have someone who knows what's what and that you trust to take a look. the pic is deceiving to me. I just don't know .... I keep flip flopping on what I see. I don't know what the wide plastic band is above and below that window. But if that is the sole flashing for the head and sill then they have it right at the bottom , but the top is outside the tyvek and is wrong. But if the actual nailing flange and flashing is hidden in the picture by the deep flange of the window then they may have done it correctly . I can't understand why the wide band would be outside the Tyvek though. If it all comes together as a shingle roof does with the upper section flowing over the lower section then it works. If not then it is a problem.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
DOH! What do you think? Tape the top? They are also going to be flashing the lintles. What can we do here? I was getting ready to fire the super an Email reminding him to flash all the wall penetrations and asking about the Trunk line. What would you suggest as an easy fix?
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
It still looks to me like the window head needs some work. We do it so the tyvek laps over the whole top shebang.They could make cuts through to the sheathing @ 45° from the top corners, upward and outward to the corneres of the existing tape. Lift up the flap, put some window tape bandages at the tops of the side jambs.I'm guessing you don't use a metal head flashing with brick? I don't know...but if you did, that would go on next, then run the head tape across the top, stuck to the sheathing and over the window flange/flashing deal, then fold the tyvek flap back down,and tyvek tape those corner cuts...but hey, looks like they got the bottom right! Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
I just took another look at the pics. I have concluded that what I thought was a faulty install is actually an optical illusion . The windows have a channel that creates the illusion that at the top the flashing is outside the window flange. Study the bottom and top of the windows and see if you agree.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I finally got to have a look at it in the daylight. It's an optical illusion. The Tyvek is on top. It's hard to tell even staring right at it as it's white on white but it's on top. They either read the book when they redid it or had professional instruction.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Gunner,
Thanks for posting that . I was wondering about the issue.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
It's been on the back of my mind. I also got a close look at the mechanical flashing. They did those right too. I guess the caulking is just an extra layer.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Das goot!Now, after you get all your wiring back, what are you insulating with?My job-box got "opened" same night I loaded it, inside job, arrrgh! Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
My job-box got "opened" same night I loaded it
What happened there? Was this recently?
freakin' hate that! hate hate hate
I'm trying to let it go...but don't ever trust a Delta jobbox. :-( Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
I'm not sure. If they follow standard procedure it will be wrong and it will have to be done again.
Man that sucks about your job box. Inside job huh? You should whack someone. Doesn't matter if they are guilty or not. All the others need to know.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
The simple answer is it is just very poor worknanship either get it fixed whch you have to do and deal with the original contractorYou can make it fool proof but not idiot proof
Looks good to me!
......LOL....... sorry, I couldn't even type that with a straight face.
Now would be an appropriate time to go blow a blood vessel. I'd make him tear it all off and do it again at his expense, just to send the message of who is actually in charge.
Dave
They are going to fix it. Fortunatley there is a poster here (Winstall) who gives a #### about what's going on, and he has put me in touch with the local Tyvek specialist. She's flying back into town this afternoon and is going to meet with me and look it over and tell me what they need to do. They can't meet with her this week it's the annual company retreat in Florida.
They've already agreed to pull out the windows and doors and reinstall them properly. And fix the Tyvek. And also correct the galvanized nail problem.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
My wife has been bugging me to type a follow up Email just to keep their memory fresh while they are in Florida conferencing. Here's what I came up with. What do you think?
Name left blank
I don't care if Earl puts the L brackets on the sill plates but I don't want him to fix the Tyvek or reflash the windows until Paul is back and he's been trained on how to do it properly. Actually I'd prefer he never worked on the house again, but I have no choice in that at this point. I'll attach a picture of what I'm talking about. Ask Paul or anyone to look at it. The bottom of the ice and water shield on this window is installed totally backwards. Moisture flows right into the window. Not away from it. The top is over the wrap making a path straight to the top of the window. Also from what I picked up from the ground the roofers are about to flash the valleys against the dormer wall backwards. On the one side it looks like the membrane or whatever they are using is on top of the house wrap. It should be under it. That keeps the waterfall effect working. The way it is it's going to put water right under the shingles. They need to fix that before they go any further. Maybe they plan too, but right now it's not looking good. The drip edge has to be corrected as per Paul and my discussion anyway. And have they been told to put the roof vents on? I'd like to keep the house as dry as I can.
With everything we discussed Thursday I don't think I got across to Paul that I wanted the walls in the upstairs bonus room moved back to the spot I originally picked. It will still give them a height of three and a half feet Which I believe is code. And better rafter support for Snow/ice load. And it will allow us to utilize as much space as possible in that room.
PS I'm sure your going to tell me to butt out but I looked at your brick and they graded your yard right up to the bottom of your weepholes. You can't use any mulch or plant around your house. Up front between your sidewalk and house you can't add any dirt to what's going to be your flower bed. Seriously. I'd get a real home inspector to look at this stuff before you closed.
.
"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
I can't see all the details you are talking about, but much can be simplified by stating that with respect to wraps and underlayments, ALL laps must be done in such a way that they face downhill to shed water.The thing about drip edge I simply can't fathom. These clowns must have run out of drip material and kept right on working anyways.In the letter, you seem to be referring to a personal item on the house next door.
It is generally better to keep personal stuff out of professional correspondence. You are asking the builders to behave professionally with regard to your house. It would be more professional of you to stick to that subject. Combining the two makes you look more like a sniper.
I understand it is harder to do given the family connection, but you can do those asides verbally or by phone or even in a separate email.It is also possible that you are beginning to tread some thinner ice by demanding that they wait to redo the Tyvek until...
There are liability issues that could creep in that way. For instance, if the wind tears it off in the meantime and water blows in, they can turn around on you and say, "We would have had this covered by now..."I understand where you are coming from, and they do seem to have a poor skillset and attitude, but your position should be to set the standard of acceptance, then let them worry about how and when to meet that standard. You are coming too close to becoming project manager and giving yourself ulcers. The pen you sign the check or release form with is your sword. Don't waste too much of your energy getting in close with the dagger. Just show them the sword, point out what is needed, and walk away.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Point well taken.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
On the drip edge Issue: I've seen the cornice wrap guys bend a lip on the top of their wrap that goes up against the bottom of the shingles. Helps wick the water back behind the wrap so it can rot the framing easier.
Is the house getting full brick or will there be siding around the corner on the second story above the roof? If it's brick, make sure they thru flash above the roof line. If it's siding, there's gonna have to be a transistional flashing. Corners like that are the second most frequent repair call I get next to neoprene gasket waste vent flashings.
Give me the word and I'll meet you down there.http://grantlogan.net/
I was born in a crossfire hurricane..........shooby dooby do
As per our nextel conversation earlier. I'll try to get a ladder out there and get up and take some pictures. Maybe it wouldn't be bad to get to together Sunday. Nice BBQ place down the street. Anyway we'll see what plays out.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Yeah, I was just going to send you a long reply but Piffin beat me to it. Keep the big picture in mind and don't make yourself sick over all the small items piling up. At the end of the day, they can either choose to make it right or find someone else to sell to. If they decide to support a shoddy work ethic and substandard practices, let it be a headache for them, not you.Besides, if you need to exact some vengeance, you can always help me track down the schmo that 'rewired' my house. Nice bits of 14/2 randomly spliced into 20a BX, kitchen lights on the same circuit as the receptacles, etc. Grrr.
Alright. I'll stop badgering. But I did uncover something that was really interesting this morning. I had called the local building inspector last Friday to ask a couple of questions but he was gone on his inspections for the day. He returned my call this morning. The guy is actually the head building inspector. I told him who I was and where my house was being built and who was building it.
I then asked him about the regular nails in the acq. He said they require the proper nails which are galvanized or stainless. He was a little concerned. Then I asked him about the window and door flashing and proper wrap installation. He said that they require that all doors and windows be properly flashed and the house wrap be properly installed. I told him that I was told they never do that on a house. He seemed puzzled and was trying to figure out what was going on. Then he offered that if the house is already bricked before they call for a framing inspection then they wouldn't be able to tell if it was done properly or not. I told him that that must be what they are doing. I offered that the regular inspector must be getting complacent. I offered him the out that they probably did such a good job on so many homes that the inspector probably dropped his guard with them and they have developed some pretty bad habits. He agreed.
Then he said that he would call the builder himself and tell him that he needs to start watching this stuff. He also said that my house would get some extra special attention. I thanked him.
I guess I have figured out how they get away with it. They call for the framing inspection afer the brick is up. That's just as much the code enforcement departments fault for letting them do it. Kind of cheesed me off that they would allow it. Anyway the adventure continues.
.
"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Brick before framing inspection? That seems awfully risky to me. I like to have everything signed off on prior to performing work that goes on something that is not inspected. Although, maybe with their relationship with the inspector they know that it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. I could see a super saying "Come on, man- we've already got the brick installed. You can't make us do _ _ _ _ now!"As an aside, one of the county's that we build in is now requiring veneer inspections. Before any brick/stone/siding is installed, they are check for proper wrap and flashing details, at least according to code.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
More "just for grins".
Does your AHJ have a nailoff inspection before you are allowed to stick the windows and doors in and start covering up everything with flashing and house wrap? Do you know that your sheathing is secure and not tacked on at the four corners?
Inspections and studies after hurricane Andrew found just that with many of the failed envelopes, both roof and siding sheathing were literally tacked on and covered over.
Another look at the windows shows flanges covered with the peel and stick. Did the inspector check the fasteners before coverup? Although it doesn't happen often, some inspectors will pull a screw at random to see if the proper length and gauge was used.
I don't imagine they do. They let them brick the house before their framing inspection. I don't think they would come out and look at the nailing.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
I talked to the head Code enforcement guy again this morning. He couldn't find my house in his system. I don't know if they forgot to pull the permit or what. Anyway he said that he'd send an inspector out to have a look. A couple hours later the inspector called me. He wanted to know if I wanted to meet him out there. I said I could take the day off tomorrow and meet him. We chit chatted a little and I told him that apparently I was the first person to raise any concern about the practices going on. He replied that I might be the first in my sub division but they get people with the same concerns occasionaly.
I asked him how they can get away with bricking houses without a framing inspection. He said it's political. This builder is the biggest in the county and the county judge won't allow them to stop a house from being built because of something like that. The guy didn't want to come out and say it but I sensed that it frustrated him more then it did me. He seemed to be earnest when he said that he wanted me to be one hundred percent satisfied because he wanted people in this county to know that it's a good place to build a home. And that they do have standards here. Or something like that. Anyway he sounded like a good guy. I'm going to meet him tomorrow and we'll hash it out.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
You see the new JLC book, "JLC Guide to Moisture Control"?
I'm going to be ordering it, you might want to, too.
I got a flyer about it, but I'd guess its available on JLC's site.
Good luck on the meeting tomorrow.
And make sure to hide Shaggy's picture before the inspector gets there- you don't want to be giving the poor guy a heart attack.
I won't be able to get him out of his truck.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Crikey, you've stumbled onto the entire Keystone Kops operation now haven't you.Look at it this way, you might be up for a Pulitzer prize for investigative journalism before this is over. But I gotta ask, is this sort of collusion between Deaf, Dumb and Blind Builders and the county judge at all normal?Best of luck meeting with the inspector tomorrow. That might prove to be a very valuable ally.
I guess you guys helping me along, and my big mouth have uncovered something that could potentialy be a big deal. I ain't no advocate. But I will educate anyone that will listen. And I am going to start telling them to insist on a framing inspection before the brick goes up.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
I almost forgot. I think the politics go for most counties. I know that most inspectors have to walk a thin line. Too many complaints and that means the voters aren't happy.
Besides in this county. I have never heard of them solving a murder. I don't know how I could expect them to acomplish properly inspecting building houses. There are a lot of houses being built and I think only three inspectors. It's impossible to keep up.
.
"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
It could be that the inspector sees his job as part PR to molify you enough so you don't make waves that will be too hard on the builder, the ripples of which could reach across the county...
Don't forget, some of these boys play poker together friday night before they meet sunday at church. There are communications happening on that side of the fene just like you are conversing with us here!ever see the movie "Walking Tall"
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yea this is the kind of county where they learn to play together.
Yea I've seen walking tall. I aint fighting with a club though. I'm hiring a couple of ex Blackwater guys to watch my back. I like their style. Just waste everyone within range of your weapon. Then there are no grey areas.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
It was a trap. I was driving out to meet the inspector when a county code enforcement truck pulled up behind me. He seemed like he was in a hurry because he was riding right on my butt. All of a sudden another one pulled out in front of me. I thought."C R A P" He started slowing down so I pulled out to pass. Another one came up beside me real fast. He pulled right up beside me and started swerving into me. I bumped him back. He bumped me. I slammed on the brakes. The one behind me was caught off guard and slammed into the back of me. It startled him and he swerved too hard and lost control. The other two got confused and slammed into each other. I stopped in the road and so did they. Pistols came out. I was giving as good as I was getting. I winged one then took one out. The wounded one was crying for help. His other buddy ran over to help him about that time the gas tank exploded on one of the cars. They both were on fire walking around flailing their arms about. I had to shoot them to put them out of their misery.
Tonight I'm on the run. I'm at the Thunderbird motel outside of Atlanta Georgia. I've got a bottle of Bourbon a freshly cleaned and loaded pistol and several grand in cash. I took all the bribe money that was overflowing from their pockets before I split. (The money that wasn't singed anyway.) I'm being sought for murders I had to commit. My only regret is that I never learned to shoot a compound bow. That would look really cool when I go back to kill the rest of them as I clear my name.
More later. The hooker is knocking on the door.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Errrr, Gunner...that was TV show ya saw last night. S'Ok, keep drinkin.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
I want some of what he's having.
Want some? Just ferment brown rice.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
ah, come on.
Even your life can't get that weird.
Like you would bother to clear your name. Just live on as Rasta Honky.
OK The hookers bleeding out in the tub. (Old Habit) So I'll tell you the made up version.
The building inspector was pretty cool. he wouldn't offer a personnel opinion he made it clear that he was here to enforce the building code. And that that was considered the minimum of what you can do. I agree.
As far as the house wrap he wasn't impressed at all, naturally. Since I told him it was going to be fixed he left it alone. The way they had the windows installed qualified them as self flashing. But very borderline. I could tell that he didn't like them but in reality there was nothing he could do about them. No other treatment is required by code. I pointed out that they were going to pull them out anyway and wrap and flash the windows to Tyveks specs. He said that was good. Some of the bolts holding the sill plates down were loose. That's natural on a brand new frame because of settling he said.
Then we walked through the rest of the house. He caught a few more things that were borderline and made notes. We got down to the basement and I asked him about the galvanized nails. I told him about what I had found by researching. He said he couldn't tell if they were regular or not. I showed him one that I had pulled out he looked at it and kind of frowned then he looked it up in his code book and low and behold it calls for hot dipped galvanized or stainless nails and fasteners. I told him I had been to several houses that were wrong. He said that he would make a note of it and check it on the real framing inspection. Then he said he would tell the other guys to start looking more closely.
In the end he told me that I had reason to be concerned. And he was glad I called him. Most of this would have been covered up by the time he got here. He said that when he came back for his real framing inspection he would use his notes to make sure the problems were fixed. He also commented that this was unusual for this builder to be so sloppy. I'm sure it is. SeeYou and I were talking today. The crew that framed it probably were doing what they could with the materials price and time frame they had. They are building a bigger and supposedly better quality house then this builder normally builds and as a result they did what they could given the circumstances. This is the first time the framer has used them. He has several crews that he runs. I blame him and the builder for trying to rush the small stuff. Like Seeyou and I were talking. It's cost this builder at least twice as much to fight me and dick around then it would have to do it right the first time.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
It's cost this builder at least twice as much to fight me and dick around then it would have to do it right the first time.
it's a shame most people don't know what to look for.
they're fix your stuff and make it all back and then some on the next 200 ...
don't let looking at the big glaring stuff keep ya from looking for the small stuff too ...
bad studs during framing ... too far outta plumb walls .... that sorta thing.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
That stuff is pretty good. I've been through it and had a buddy that knows his framing go through it. They use pretty decent lumber. And most of the bowed studs have been fixed. I've found some they didn't, and I'll have them straighten them out.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
They use pretty decent lumber.
The thing that's bothered me thru this whole ordeal is that apparently the GC is buying his lumber from the best yard in the area. If he was penny pinching, there'd be an 84 Lumber or Home Depot sign in your yard. They obviously care, but don't know what to look for. I suspect they intend to do good but don't know what good is.
I have one builder I work for that has guys with red noses, big shoes and little cars for superintendents. He called me, drunk and crying one night, wanting to know what the other guys I worked for did in the situation he was in ( I can't remember which mess this was). My answer was that they learn from their mistakes and don't keep doing the same stuff they had to fix on the last house over and over again.
Hopefully, you're taking your guy to school and he's getting good grades.http://grantlogan.net/
I was born in a crossfire hurricane..........shooby dooby do
Your assesment is one hundred percent correct. I doubt the lesson will stick. Money screws everything up.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
it's a shame most people don't know what to look for.
they're fix your stuff and make it all back and then some on the next 200 ...
you got that right. I went through a few houses on the 'tour of homes' a couple weekends ago. Listened to people walking into the houses:
1. Oooh, the kitchen is a nice size
2. oooh, it has a nice closet in the MBR
3. oooh, look at the big tub in the MBA
Whereas I was thinking, oooh look at the cheap carpet that will need replacing in a couple years, oooh look at the cheap K cabinets with drawers that barely open when empty, oooh look at the $5 light fixtures, ooooh look at all that trim that doesn't quite line up, etc.
jt8
"Those who wish to sing always find a song." -- Swedish Proverb
Yeah, yer right- the other version is more believable <G>
Glad to hear the inspector is sorta on your side. Maybe you'll be able to get your fixes without having to kill someone.
It can be so messy getting rid of the body. Especially since I think you're done pouring concrete.
Sidewalks and back patio. I'll have to chunk it up good.
The deck guys were putting up my sisters deck next door. They were peeking around the corner when I was outside talking to the BI. They looked like two little kids. I've seen their decks and I wouldn't be proud of them. One of the builders punchout guys came driving down the road when the inspector was getting out of his vehicle. He turned around and drove off. If they've got nothing to hide what are they scared of.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
" If they've got nothing to hide what are they scared of"
There's a natural fear of BIs from contractors, kind of like a cobra and a mongoose.
I don't mind their visits, but then I'm not normal, either. <G>
Besides, it breaks the monotany of talking to myself all day.
It's like slowing down to exactly the speed limit when you see a cop. Most people do I don't. I do what I always do. He would have nailed me as soon as he saw me if I was in the wrong. They all have lives and other BS just like you and me. Of course some of them are real Poindexters but then again all trades have jerks in them.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Did he say anything about the screw post in the basement?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Yep I asked him about them and he said that as long as the engineer stamped the plan with those in mind then there was nothing he could do about them. Wouldn't even really talk about them. He did comment that they looked small to him. They are the size specified on the plans. I'm upgrading as soon as we close. If we ever close.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Edited 10/3/2007 10:11 pm ET by Gunner
Sounds about right.
Keep an eye on your kidneys til she's out the door.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
Them Asian ones will get you fast if you aint watching.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
The hooker is knocking on the door.
She could've won the Powerball or she could've knocked on your door. Life is cruel.http://grantlogan.net/
I was born in a crossfire hurricane..........shooby dooby do
Probably one up your alley:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=95484.1
jt8
"Those who wish to sing always find a song." -- Swedish Proverb
Well, Kid Gunner, too bad the concrete had already been poured or you could have let their bodies inspect itr real good.So does the hooker like rice?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
She's bleeding out in the tub. I never got a chance to ask her. (Mommyvan humor)
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Hey Gun, how about sending me a PM when you get a moment. danialt10@yahoo. DanT
On the way.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Speaking of brick last year at Christmas I was going out to my cousins in Oldam Co.Bunch of new house along Lagrane RD (KY 146) between Gene Synder Expway and the Oldam county line.I saw one home that my mind kept saying WTF, WTF and ways past it I figured out what it was.They had a dormer in the middle of the roof and it was sided with BRICK. This brick just "floating" in the air.I am sure that it could be done structuraly and make water resistant. But WHY? Just looked strange there..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Ok, maybe older and wiser is better.
Earlier I mentioned that the builder took everyone to Florida this week for their annual meeting. They Golf, deep sea fish, and shop. One day is set aside for the big meeting. That was today. A friend of a friend who couldn't go into any big detail said that it was pretty ugly. And it focused on window and door installation. I'm a hit!
Maybe they are turning a corner. There's a lot of them though that are getting their butts chewed. So they might want to kill me when they come back. I might have to hire Black water for protection.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
shucks - and those ribs are just getting healed up aren't they?At least you have practice working with broken ribs now - tee hee
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yea I got to try to keep that a secret. It could be my downfall in a street fight against a dozen pencil pushers that can't get a window in a hole the righ way.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Just find a phone both and call Rasta Honkey with his flair gun.
Edit: I know you surpose to follow the proper chain of command and all with the sister and the site super and all that. However, I'd suggest getting the number for someone higher up the food chain if you're not getting what you want. It will put a stain on the relationship with your sister in the short run, but a house shouldn't be a short run kind of thing.
I've found dealing with the real chief I get better results then dealing with the mini-cheifs.
Edited 10/2/2007 9:54 am ET by CAGIV
The next in command over my sister is the owner of the company. I don't think he really knows how big of a potential problem he has. The guy is a former Walmart big wig and that's the same formula that he runs this business with.
He gets his supervisors so hopped up on production and bonuses that they act like cats covering #### in a litter box.
.
"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
"I don't think he really knows how big of a potential problem he has. "
don't let him fool ya.
The guy is making money ... and he knows full well that corners are being cut.
Might not know exactly what corners and how ... but he knows.
they all do.
still not sure why anyone is suprised.
this is typical new const / subdivision ####.
new const homes / subdivision homes are 90% ####.
same #### can be found thru all price ranges.
some builders are worse ... some are better ...
but all are trying to sell the most sq ft for the smallest mortgage payment.
consumers are driving the market.
politicians and local economies let it slide thru.
we've lived a coupla places around the country ... have visited lots more ...
and I've seen it on every level in every location.
basically ... new const ... unless custom ... is ####.
not falling down and kill ya #### ...
but the kinda #### yer fighting through.
be the squeaky wheel ... get greased ...
but don't think for a minute they're gonna change their ways.
#### sells ...
and #### sells at a higher profit margin.
I figured out years ago ... there is no money in new const.
that's why they gotta do volume and cut as many corners as possible along the way.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
You are one hundred percent correct my friend.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Hey did you catch my post in this thread a ways back to you about the belt loops? Great technique. Worked great for me.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Seems I'm always hearing about shakey sh!t inspectors and builders getting busted in Cleveland.
Just talked with a HOguy there I work periodically for who had been receiving a lot of #### for the past year or to from one particular inspector. Said he just got fired for being involved in some bribing deals.
Still going on.
Watch yer back, play politics, and get'er done.
and don't get involved in fighting cityhall.
be more from the peanut gallery
I hear ya. You never know what's going on in the background. You know me I can be a get along guy. And I don't have any plans on fighting city hall. Remember Shaggy's story about coming down here and fighting the system? The judges final ruliing was something like. "Yea you are right. The whole deal was handled wrong and technicaly you are right. But we still feel the guy is guilty so we are going to send him to prison anyway."
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
musta skimmed past the Belt Loops part ..
will have to reskim.
long live Ron Magnoli!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
For the most part I agree with you. However there peope (like on this forum) who try to do qualty work. And there are homeowners who thught they were getting quality work and did not. The show 'Holmes on Homes' is a good example.And some people are so suprised by the mold issue (not here of course)Who was it that said we should tear down all the houses built before 1960. Hell those survied the test of time. Most of these new houses will not be around in a hundred years.
Or he can ask Nuke.That flashing at the windows as been on of his problems.And I think it has come up several times.A bay window with the roof just stuck on the surface of the brick facing.With enough caulk and it can be made waterproof, at least for a while. ABut there is no through flashing for the wall above. So water comes through the wall above and runs down the inside of the bricks untill it hit the bay window and then rains inside..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
The stuff you see in all the penetrations is probably fire caulk, sounds like Hilti too...good stuff. And, if that's in, it must mean all the mechanical rough-ins are done, and you're almost ready for a framing inspection... then you'll find out about that stairwell bearing wall<G>Did you ever say if have inspections over there in Kintuckey?How big is your prospective joint? Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
I was looking at the house next door to mine. The one my sister and her husband are having built.
I think our house is going to be around 2,400 square feet. 1,400 more then I need.
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Whale Oil Beef Hooked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
The house I posted is a little over 3000sq' not including a stand up crawl...amazing what the right camera angle can do<G> Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
Right camera angle is right LOL. Sorry I thought your house looked small. Maybe we are not measuring the same. I'm talking 2,400 square feet of livable useful space. That doesn't count the bonus room or the garage. I'm not sure if that counts the basement. I'm probably wrong on my numbers anyway. I swear my wife changes them every time. Either that or I just don't care enough to listen.
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Whale Oil Beef Hooked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
I concur, when we install Tyvek in the panels from our plant, they tape seams in the field, no problem. I would treat window openings as you stated, with Grace Wykor over sill and 3 inches up the trimmer, then tape the nailing flanges on the outside. I know how the wrap mfg. call out cutting in for RO's, but I rarely see it done that way. Far more common and better the way your describing. Make sure they use TYVEK brand tape, it will say Tyvek in blue letters. Plain white tape comes loose in low temps or wind.
Edited 8/18/2007 9:27 pm by karteberry
Gunner-
rather than the Ice & Water, I prefer Grace's Vycor to flash windows and doors. It doesn't have the texture the roofing stuff has.
It should be installed on the RO sill, lapping over the Tyvek on the walls, and up the sides 3-4". Then strips behind the nailing flanges, and finally a strip over the Tyvek over the flange above the window.
Just visualize how water flows down the wall, and plan appropriately.
Gunner,
Looks like yer going to keep a close eye and play the role of the gentlemen diplomat to get your house built right.
I say gentlemen diplomat in that you want to keep a peaceful open line of communication going with the team so you can point out what's needed and just get the house built ok.
Looks like the ball is rolling ok but yer going to have to be the one to make sure all is well all the time.
You can do this.
I&W is Ice and Water Shield like the Grace product. http://www.graceathome.com/pages/roofing.htm
be you can do this
Edited 8/18/2007 2:10 am ET by rez
Yea so far I've been pretty cordial except for one outburst. The problem I have is these guys brag about building 600 homes so far. And they walk around this kind of thing and never notice. And then there's this issue in the basement. This is a main load bearing wall. They still haven't put steel support columns in the basement they are supporting the whole house with a couple of 2x6's that are bowing badly under the weight. I'm not impressed at all. I'm not even pleased a little.
View Image
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Be showing up with a smile and cold cans of coke&pepsi for everyone.
Be the good guy till you can't anymore.
Be covering yer own azz.
Be photo attaching here for the experienced advice to keep you put of bad situations.
be you might get lucky.
Be photo attaching here for the experienced advice to keep you put of bad situations.
Yep that's what I'm hoping for. This place is great for solid practical advice.
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Something wrong with your picture. Why the heck are they using 2x6's on top of a 2x4 baseplate? In the basement? If this is not framed 2x6 for plumbing, I would be extremely suspicious of the idiots who are framing your home. Just my opinion.
And I am suspicious whether you actually read the thread before you responded...;o)
Yeh... That'll work.
Luka, Luka, Luka.Reading a thread before replying takes all of the fun out it..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I'm glad that someone else mentioned that 2x6 studs on a 2x4 base leads to a question; maybe the answer is, [ I'm not a real builder, but I play one on TV], no lol.
Another concern of mine is all this little stuff shows up ten and twenty years down the road. That's why I want it done perfectly now. I mean your talking a few extra hours out of the framing to make it right now. Vs. Days or weeks of possible work later that nobody is going to want to pay for.
Hey maybe I'm being a whiny butt. But I know getting the basics right are the key to success in the future.
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Yes, nothing wrong with wanting it done right. You have a leg up on many because of your own experience and your participation here.
best be an eagle and eye.
I say that's a verb son, a verb
Definatley.
<GD&R>
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Ok, I'm a hack. I don't think the wrap around the opening is a biggie. I would however treat the window install like wrapping a Christmas present like a joke..IOW, redundant with the layering and taping, make it HARD to undo. Or, water to sneak in.
Thats me tho', and here. You OTOH, are PAYING someone to do it YOUR way...get Rasta on them.
About the tyvek tape, yikes, it is spendy stuff, again, YOU are paying for it..get it or get cash back..not credit, CASH-O-LA, I'll bet it'll apppear when it comes to that, NO one wnats to part with $$$ in hand, and will offer a trade instead, Fugg that, Get CASH.
I use 30lb felt, no tape involved, but like I said, I'm a hackk.
Yea the tape is going to be put on or no payola. My defense is I'm the one left holding the bag on the Tyvek ten year warranty. If I let them install it incorrectly and I do have an issue Tyvek is just goin to laugh at me when they open it up and see this crap.
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
The framing on the other hand needs to be fixed ASAP.
The house sounds like it is sagging under it's own weight. All because they haven't put in the steel columns. If your house is a multi floor plan I can forsee alot of squeeks and creeks after everything is covered up if it let go too long.
Over 600 homes huh? Tell them that stuffing feathers up their azz doesn't make them a chicken. Because they can build a house doesn't mean they should.
Matt
Yea I'm going to make sure the columns get put in Monday. I was discussing this with my brother yesterday. He used to do backhoe work for this builder untill he finally couldn't afford it. I made the comment that I couldn't be the only one that's bought a house from them that new what was going on. He said that I would be surprised at how few people they get that know anything. Maybe the smart ones figure it out early and pass?
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Jeepers dude.... I've been out of the loop for too long. Didn't know you were already framed up with this new house thing. Damm.... I wish you called bro... we probably could have worked something out.
Regarding the 600 houses per year thing....... generally speaking, when someone has to tell me how good they are or how long they have been doing something.... they're usually FOS and quite often simply suck at what they do.
I had a guy working for me once who couldn't handle the fact that I was younger than him. I was asking him to do something a different way when he gave me the, "Don't tell me how to do this.... I've been doing it this way for 20 years!".
My reply was that, "you must be a slow learner then cuz 20 years is a long time to be doing something azzbackwards".View Image
C'mon down in OCT and you can help me with the stairs. We'll send Gunner out for a board strecther and be done when gets back.
>I wish you called bro... we probably could have worked something out.<
Me too, could have been a framing fest.
Matt
It's 600 total I think. Over about six or seven years. Doesn't matter, there's stuff that comes up that makes you wonder if they've ever built one house.
I got roped into using these guys by my wife. I had always said that out of the builders I know there are only three or four I would get excited about if I had them frame my house. Since my sister works for this builder and my brother in law. I was squeezed into it. It really will be a good house and it will be done right in the end.
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
It really will be a good house and it will be done right in the end.
Oh, I have no doubt that your due diligence will pay off brother. See, framing is pretty much the only thing I'm good at. So when I see someone that I give a rat's azz about in a situation where they could benefit from my assistance.... well.... I just wish I coulda been there.View Image
You know I thought about emailing you privately about this because I respect your opinion so much. Then I thought. "What the heck? It's a fest weekend. Let's have a free for all. LOL
Wanna come down for the final walk through on the framing? I'll buy you your favorite energy drink. :)
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Edited 8/18/2007 7:59 pm ET by Gunner
Edited 8/18/2007 8:07 pm ET by Gunner
That's what I call the difference between 20 years of experience and six months of experience 40 times.dieselpig sez:
I had a guy working for me once who couldn't handle the fact that I was younger than him. I was asking him to do something a different way when he gave me the, "Don't tell me how to do this.... I've been doing it this way for 20 years!".My reply was that, "you must be a slow learner then cuz 20 years is a long time to be doing something azzbackwards".
Diesel! Long time no talk my man - where you been? I've been emailing about that Makita saw and such. Got me on ignore? ;)Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
"Everybody wants to know what I’m on...
What I'm on? I’m on my bike, busting my ### 6 hours a day…
...What are you on?"
- Lance Armstrong
House looks like it will be a nice one. I always knew you were rich. All that bank work and all. Big money in NO. All brick too! Slumming it in Ohio. DanT
He busted those ribs at a bad time.Things keep up the way they have been, and he'll have no choice but to be 'slumming it' too. I'll have to offer him a cardboard box next to mine under the train trestle. ;o)If anybody deserves the nice house, Gunner does. =0)
Yeh... That'll work.
Edited 8/23/2007 7:36 pm by Luka
He buste dthe ribs at a GOOD time, it is 101* out there, and he was in an ATTIC! Yikes.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Good point.;o)
Yeh... That'll work.
Buddy, this heat would KILL you, I know how ya hate it. I deal pretty well with it, but today seemed the worst I can remember.
DOwnright unfriendly.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you never had, do something you've never done"
You got that right.It would literally kill me.I think it actually got up to 101 at some point either while I was at LisaL's house for QuakeFest, or at some point on the return trip.I had no air conditioning.I was badly sick for 6 weeks or longer, afterward. Completely drained, and physically ill.Had I had to stay in that heat... It literally would have killed me.
Yeh... That'll work.
You got that right. But I'm glad it's just ribs. I could have done a lot more damage and been really screwed. I'll power out of it.
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Whale Oil Beef Hooked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
This house we live in now is nearly paid off. If we get this one sold and get what we want out of it then we can pay off all our debt and put down almost half on this house. It's on our contract that if we don't sell this one then we don't have to buy that one. Which would suck especially with all the home automation, and alarm stuff I'm getting ready to pre wire into it.
.
Whale Oil Beef Hooked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Edited 8/23/2007 7:19 pm ET by Gunner
I was -hoping- that you had the bases covered somehow.
Yeh... That'll work.
I aint got crap covered. I need to get my bathroom remodeled before I put this up for sale. Can I afford to hire someone? No. I'm trying to take out a short term loan on my 401k and hire someone to get it done and ready. Other then that a little painting and a ton of yard work.
I was kind of hoping to get Kody to help me out but my brother in law hired him to work on his house that he's getting ready to sell.
.
Whale Oil Beef Hooked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Wish I could help. Go hire one of those guys standing out in front of the Home Dumpstero...;o)
Yeh... That'll work.
I think all those guys are busy framing my house. LOL
.
Whale Oil Beef Hooked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
ROFLMAOOk, I got to get back to work my own self...=0)
Yeh... That'll work.
Busy as all get out Justin... but that's the way I like it this time of year. I don't know what the deal is bro.... I replied to you a couple times. Once about the saw and getting it back to you and one other time to your email about an I-joist article. Got a really interesting house coming up in October though that you may find interesting.
How've you been anyway?View Image
Hey Brian - that's really weird about the email. I remember sending you questions about the I-Joist thing, etc - but your replys never came back. I'm going to send an email to you right now, do me a favor and reply today (or whenever you get this) - I will call up our IT department and make sure that your email address is on the safe senders list - sometimes weird stuff goes down.
Long story short, I want to come up there and see the site, take you out for dinner and chat you up about some ideas. Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
"Everybody wants to know what I’m on...
What I'm on? I’m on my bike, busting my ### 6 hours a day…
...What are you on?"
- Lance Armstrong
JourneymanCarpenterT and myself each sent the other an email thru here and niether went thru.I used the Reply Via Email radio button, I don't know if he did it that way or thru my profile.SamT
Ok, I just sent a Reply Via Email message to you that says"Testing, testing, testing."And one via the Profile system. It is self identifying, 'cuz I thought more then.SamT
haha, thanks Sam. I was actually having trouble only with Dieselpigs email, not email in general. I appreciate you taking the time to help out though.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
"Everybody wants to know what I’m on...
What I'm on? I’m on my bike, busting my ### 6 hours a day…
...What are you on?"
- Lance Armstrong
I got your email and just replied.... let me know how it works out.
We're finishing up with that house in the photo folder titled, "Whats been keeping me busy lately". Starting another one on Wednesday and have a pretty cool one coming up late October that I think you may be interested in. Depending on when you'd like to visit, we can tour the house in the photo thread, see my current site, and take a look at the plans for that cool one and see if anything jumps out at you.View Image
I see another problem that no one else has mentioned.The mixed up red caps and green caps.The green caps should be on the front, red on the back of the house..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Yeah, and blue on the left side. Can't remember what goes on the right, though.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Son of a buck. I knew there was something out of place and I couldn't put my finger on it. I just hope they get the sod green side up.
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Yeah, wrapping the sills isn't really necessary so long as the openings are properly handled. Wrapping is just as easy as cutting out and helps assure the wrap doesn't get dislodged by the wind, etc, but doesn't greatly improve effectiveness.
The seams should be taped, unless they're lapped at least a foot. It's not that time-consuming or expensive, and should be a no-brainer. (Just make sure they use either white Tyvek tape or the red "contractors sheathing tape", and not duct tape or some such.)
What concerns me is the inside corner I can see -- they got the wrap kinda tight, and (judging from the picture) it's apt to be ripped when the siding is installed. That area should probably be slit open and a new strip of wrap installed and taped.
Also I see what may (or may not) be tears around some of the nails. These should be taped if there are really tears.
Gunner, around here, the housewrap (or a suitable alternative) HAS to wrap inside the jam/sill window/door RO. If it doesn't, we can't pass the framing inspection...so it is a big deal.One option, now, is to wrap the opening with tarpaper splines, another is to use a bituthane kinda window wrap. Then, the windows must be installed to manufacturers instructions. Inspections will want a copy. If the window has fins, it's a pretty good practice to finish up the install with window wrap. Some builder's don't like it at the bottom...just make sure the head flashing is against the sheathing, then door/window stuff over that but under a flap of the Tyvek. Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
Thanks Holly. Out of all the houses I've seen done here, this is the first one that hasn't been wrapped around the jams and sills.
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Thanks for pointing out the corners. I'll go back and have a closer look.
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
I wouldn't worry too much about the windows. There was an article in JLC awhile back about doing windows properly, but I think he lived on the coast...it's a little different scenario there.
I would have them cut the Tyvek so that it overlaps the head of the window and then tape the Tyvek over the head nailing flange. Then Vycor all the flanges to the Tyvek, making sure you've shingled the layers of Vycor.
If you cut Tyvek at the top of the window like this _______/, you can fold it up, install the window, and then fold it back down. You can silicone the head and leg nailing flanges, too.
Gunner, I'm not a contractor. I'm just a humble DIY'er that makes more than my share of mistakes. But you can rest assured of one thing: I make it a point to learn how things are supposed to be done and then I make a sincere effort to meet that standard. I love this forum because there are pro's here who inform, instruct, and inspire me. I like being surrounded by them because they're teaching me how to discern the difference between workmanship and workmansh*t.
That housewrap job may appear to be a minor issue that is easily corrected. But what I see is glaring evidence of a contractor or tradesman who is either clueless, careless, or just doesn't give a d**n. I had never heard of "sealing the envelope" until I started hanging around here. But I've since learned that it's a crucial step in proper construction and reveals a lot about someone's knowledge of building science.
If that were my house, I would not feel confident allowing that contractor to continue.
My two-cents worth,
Michael
New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
seriously though, the housewrap doesn't look horrible, I'd insist on the seams being taped. They could wrap the side jambs with I&W sheild or similiar bit. tape I'd be most concerned about the rest of the framing from that one picture in the basement.
As for the brick exterior, is it a real brick or one of the applied faux bricks? Just curious
He's getting that brick panelling in 4x8 sheets. He just don't know it yet. LOLL
The brick is real brick. I've been holding off on criticising the framing until they say they are done. At that time the supervisor and I will go through it. That's only fair. I'm not happy with the way the headers are done either. None of the 2x6's come out flush with the 2x4's Here I'll post a pic of what I'm talkin about. On my current house they were left like this and the drywallers had a joint at every header. As a result the drywall always seperates above the doors so it looks like a crack.
View Image
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Joints on a header in the DW? WRONG. I was hanging rock when I was a teenager and I was told/shown to never have a seam over a door or window, all one sheet from king to king at least.
I'd at least pack out the header with foam insulation or do what MFSmith does, hollow box header full of foam, I LIKE that.
I wouldn't worry to much about the headers not flushing out. If you have the space on the exterior you'd be better off with a piece of foam to create a thermal break.
The S/R shouldn't break over a header or in the corners of a door anyway. I'd also ask the S/R hangers to not screw/nail off to the headers.
Man, you're builder is going to hate you/us by time you're done with that house... Maybe he'll even start a thread like JourneymanT about his home owner from hades lol
Make sure you tell the supervisor or who ever your contact is, you're getting all this from people on the internet ;)
Edited 8/18/2007 1:49 pm ET by CAGIV
I actually went through another house today that was ready for sheet rock. I was pretty impressed. They had the place insulated then went through every hole in the house plumbing electric etc. Everywhere a hole was drilled in a stud and filled it with expanding foam. That's something that I had planned on doing myself. I'm glad they do that.
Like I said earlier. I'm just going to wait until they tell me they are done with an area then decide whether I accept it or not.
I don't care if they hate me or not. I'm the guy paying the tab (which could be big) two,ten or fifteen years down the road when the little things that didn't get taken care of start showing up.
I'm going to tell em I saw it on Bob Villa, and This Old House. :)
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Like I said earlier. I'm just going to wait until they tell me they are done with an area then decide whether I accept it or not.
As a framer... this is how I wish most H/O's and GC's would treat things. It shows experience. I can always tell when I've got a new GC or inexperienced H/O on the first Monday morning after we started work. They always have their "brother in law, the carpenter" walk through over the weekend and point out everything they can possibly find wrong with the frame. I always wonder why, if their BIL is such a knowledgeable carpenter, am I framing their home?
Anyway.... point being.... if it ain't finished.... well... it ain't finished. What you seem to understand that many folks miss is that not everything gets totally buttoned up "on the way up". I may have a $35/hour guy framing a stairset... but more than likely I'm going to have a $12/hr guy coming behind him at some point to fireblock or skirt block the stairwalls. It's busy work that can wait, while the stairs themselves usually can not.View Image
That's the very best way to put it. The very best way. And that's what I've come to realize the last few days. Just relax and see what happens. I can walk out of the deal fairly easy anyway. That takes a lot of stress off as well.
Thanks Brian.
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
I don't care if they hate me or not. I'm the guy paying the tab (which could be big) two,ten or fifteen years down the road when the little things that didn't get taken care of start showing up.
Amen to that! I've seen a couple builders around here that are saving a few bucks today but leaving time bombs for the future owners. But they ain't worried because it will take 10 years for the problem to show up and by then they are so far out of the pic they don't have to worry about it.
And poor sealing practices... the HO will never know they're paying an extra $25/month in utility costs because the builder didn't want to seal up the house better.
jt8
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner, liberty is a well armed lamb protesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin
Your exactly right.
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Whale Oil Beef Hooked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
After further consideration I think I'm gonna take my phone to the rest of the walk throughs and log onto Breaktime. Then I'll start a thread and take a pic ,up load it and wait for comments. Then I'll tell the supervisor whether all my internet buddies accept it or not.
Think I can get them to pay me $25,000.00 to get out of the contract and never ask them to build a house again? I bet I can squeeze it out of them before we get to the second floor.
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Gunner,
the headers should be flush to the framing, whether they use 2-2x6's with 1/2" ply(full width and height of header for bearing walls) or strips of 1/2" ply for non-bearing walls, the framing should be flush.
The pic of the header shows some sloppy framing, IMO, and the pic of the bearing wall in the basement is even worse.....2x4 plate with 2x6 studs? .......bright common nails nailed into a PT (ACQ) plate?....and only a toenail or two from what I can see in the pic......and even then there's some blowout from knots. How's the plate fastened to the slab? I didn't see any tie downs..
As to the window openings, use Vycor (from Grace Construction Products) in the 9" x 75' roll, it's made for this specific application(doors and windows). If you can use preformed sill pans (http://www.jambsill.com) do so, otherwise proceed in this order:
Apply a strip of Tyvek beneath the window or if it's already on the building, slice each corner( all 4) in a 45 degree angle about 12-16" long, secure the lower flap below the window to the building. Apply a strip of Vycor into the window sill wrapping out onto the already applied strip of Tyvek and up the sides of the jack studs and under the Tyvek on the sides, apply strips up the sides of the RO, again, under the Tyvek (directly on sheathing), extending below and above the window about 9", install the window onto the Vycor using a good quality caulk under the nail flange on top and sides,not the bottom, apply a strip of Vycor across the top nail flange and extend beyond to the width of the side pieces(9" each side), fold Tvek over side nail flanges and fold top down over nail flange, tape top, sides, and slices w/Tyvek tape and you're done. The bottom nail flange will be on top of the Tyvek, this all allows water to shed out of the sill area. You can also use lead to make a sill pan but the pre-formed is probably equal in cost and easier to work with and install.
Geoff
Easy dude, thats a temp wall, till they getthe lallys in.
Oh, sorry, I thought it was a pic of a bearing wall in the basement.
Then why did they use a PT sill?, or is it the old "that's what we had on hand" syndrome? That was the 2x6's he was refering to for temp. support that were bowing?
I thought he meant some " T " supports that were bowing from the loading.
I think I might be even more concerned if that temp. wall is bowing! Yikes!
Geoff
Yeah, and if a temp is bowing ...ut oh.
Did ja see that big crack in slab? Right there where the nail blew out the knot? Geeeeeeezus.
LOL, lets quit scaring him now.
No you have it right.
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
No that aint a temp wall.
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Heah? WTF? That is so wrong. I thought it was a temp till the lallys get put up. Why a 2x4 plate? ahhh never mind, you'll get em set straight.
No That's a load bearing wall. It's the stair well also. They'll never be able to pull them out, and put the right plate in. I'm sure that what happened is they didn't get delivered so the framers said. "Screw it we can use these, that way we can get going." I guarantee they want to put 2x4's right next to the existing ones. To me that's an easy fix.
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
10-4
That's some very good points on the nails and the ACQ. That whole pararaph is good. Thanks.
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
2x6 headers? What are they carrying? Interior or exterior?I'm having this one framed/sided as we type... I'm also having the thing foamed, so that 1/2 gap at the header just gets filled and sawn off flush, and we gain a small thermal value.Got a curb shot? Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
That particular shot is an interior header. I'm wondering if the exterior headers are the same now or not. I can't recall at this time.
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
P.S. That house you showed. That's all the house I ever wanted. I'd take that over the monster we're having built any day.
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"Everything is under control. I'M gonna go make some pies now." Dinosaur 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Hey gunner,
I'm a little late onthis thread but I hope you require them to do things to your specifications. I think the tape on the seams is important. the cutting out of the windows is less important so long as the windows are detailed with a vycore type flashing (grace) and the top is tucked under the wrap. The framing issues should be dealt with now before finishes suffer down the road. hold the check till you are happy.
too many people get away with too much IMHO.
Glad you are feeling better.
Jason
"it aint the work I mind,
It's the feeling of falling further behind."
Bozini Latini
Looks like they tried to stretch it, to reach the rough opening. I'd have them fix that.
Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I don't tape horizontal seams in paper as long as they overlap right, six inches or so. Water runs downhill...
I've got to look again to make sure but I don't think there is more then three inches at the most on any of the horizontals. What about verticals and tears?
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Whale Oil Beef Hooked.
http://www.walkmoreeatless.com/
If I remenber Tyvek's spec for installation the bottom edge at the mud sill is to lap the foundation by an inch and seal with appropriate caulk.
Brick the thru the wall flashing is to have its vertical leg (6")inserted behind the tyvek and the tyvek to be sealed to the flashing.
The concept is an envelope that is sealed to prevent water and air infiltration into the houses interior. Poor installation negates the benefits that this expensive product is designed to perform. This application is a critical component and needs scrutiny to be totally effective.
It is obvious from the pictures that the applicators/framers do not understand conepts and are interested only in rapid assembly and a paycheck generated by that speed. Paid entirely on the Sq. Ft. framed, not by the hour!
Might want to visit the tyvek site for details before the masons arrive.
Due vigilance or loose!
.................Iron Helix
Speed and ignorance. That's the two problems here.
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Whale Oil Beef Hooked.
http://www.walkmoreeatless.com/
Wind blows uphill, though.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
along with capillary action.
water wicks ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
If these are he guys that i must compete against you better make them replace it. otherwise quality builders are out of bussiness
Yea I'm trying to break them of their goal to be the fastest and the cheapest.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
That would be SO cool to have a Tyvek rep standing right there when they try and tell you how that crappy-azz job is the way its supposed to be.
If I were speedy-builder, I think I'd try to keep you happy (ie shut you up) about the house wrap just so I didn't have to redo all the other houses with it wrapped wrong. Especially if that meant yanking all the windows.
jt8
"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly.
I said 'I don't know.'"
-- Mark Twain
Edited 9/26/2007 2:27 pm by JohnT8
She must be on vacation. Or she's read this thread and decided she didn't want to get involved and is in hiding. LOL Can't blame her.
It will all get taken care of. They do want me happy. And I can keep it civil. Well I'll try anyway. :) There's one statement that they keep making that really bugs me. "You can seal a house too tight." Then they start telling a story about a guy that sealed his house too tight and had water running down the walls. Yea if he used a vapor barrier on between the drywall and the insulation maybe. I want the moisture away from my plywood and my windows and doors flashed properly. I know it's a big thing to ask. But that's just me.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
I know I am coming in late but I have had to rip stucco off a few houses so I am pretty sensitized to how the stuff goes up.
Tape is nice but having everything lapped shingle style is most critical as someone else mentioned.
Top of window flange under the tyvek!
Sides, flip a coin, but I'd set window on tyvek and caulk window in and then tape. (belt and suspender)
I'd also mind the window manufacturers installation procedures if I were installing.
On the bottom, since they did not pull the tyvek in, I would request that they build a pan out of a rubberized product and make sure it laps over the tyvek on the sill. (BTW, windows leak at the sill, so building a pan will help shed the water to the exterior so long as the pan wont allow the leaking water to come to the inside. Either a sloped sill or make sure the pan comes up behind the window just a smidge to prevent water from running in)
Bottom flange of window should not be caulked! (the leaking window needs a place to drain to)
If you are installing vinyl siding, everything will dry pretty quickly in most environments, so you dont need to be schitzo, but making sure everything is lapped shingle style and make sure the wrap continues up to the roof edge is pretty impotant!
I might sound a little extreme, but I have been thru hell and back with water infiltration.
Good luck, and I agree with other postings, be appreciative of the good work that they are doing! (yes, you might have to look hard at times, but it helps grease the skids for some of the tougher conversations)
There's a new house being built along my route from hither to yon. They've framed it and are now installing the house wrap.
Where do you think I'm headed?
Yup, looks exactly like your house, with the wrap cut flush to the windows and not wrapped (why do they call it "house wrap", duh?!?!). Since we don't use wrap for our stuff--well, it's automatic--I don't normally pay attention to those details. But since your thread, I looked for it and saw right away. Don't know if it helps or hurts to know that you aren't alone in not having the windows wrapped...
Mybe my framer has moved your way?
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
So you're saying this builder didn't put the wrap on correctly?
View Image
View Image
:)jt8
"Those who wish to sing always find a song." -- Swedish Proverb
That's a real pretty flashing job, too. And effective. Runs the water right under the shingles. No waiting.http://grantlogan.net/
I was born in a crossfire hurricane..........shooby dooby do
Our resident carpentry expert built one a few years ago. I think the title of the thread was. What a maroon or something like that. He was the one that talked the boss out of getting a permit. Anyway he sided the house with vinyl and never used house wrap. Claimed he didn't need to since it was all plywood.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
So how'd the meeting go today?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Yeah, is there a bail fund?
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
I don't see much that is right with that place
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I don't see much that is right with that place
They got full asking price (seemed about $10k high to me) and had it sold before the sod was down. I didn't get a chance to walk through an open house on that one, but I had walked through the one 3 houses down from the same builder (about $20k more).
It has all the shock & awe items: open floor plan with big K, basement with tall ceilings, big MBR closet & MBA with big tub. It also had the cheapest new windows $ could buy, $25 ceiling fans, very cheap carpet, inexpensive light fixtures, the k layout must have changed at some point because the cans were not lined up with the work areas, the K cabinets weren't even installed straight (but at least the cabinets were 'ok' quality unlike the ones I mentioned to Jeff). Probably 80% looked like it had been made out of the cheapest materials possible. They sold it almost as fast as the one from the pics.
And to me what is really sad is that a couple streets down is a builder who puts his housewrap on correctly, uses good Anderson windows, has nice light fixtures and good K cabinets... overall impression is that it isn't fancy, but is a well built house. But his houses are selling for the same money as builder #1 (and sometimes a hair less).
jt8
"Those who wish to sing always find a song." -- Swedish Proverb
The builder who puts his house wrap on correctly should have photos of the build stage on display at open houses. Thy could have explanations next to them to edumucate buyers as to why his homes are better.
If you have to educate your buyers, you're already two steps behind the shoddy-builders. Shoddy-builder just puts in the shock & awe features and cra ps out on everything else. Bang! House is sold.jt8
"Those who wish to sing always find a song." -- Swedish Proverb
or a low "price per sq ft" ...
have several friends who "know better" ...
and now complain about their houses.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Yeah - I can build a nice large warehouse for far less per square foot than I can a comfortable home.Maybe all some people are doing is warehousing their families
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Went over today and laid out the electric. They are supposed to start roughing it in tomorrow. I saw that they had worked on the Tyvek and it looks much better. I could tell that two different people worked on it. One person understands the principle and one doesn't. The one that doesn't has the bottom over the top in the places he or she fixed. I guess I have to send another Email. Man I'm getting tired of looking like a picky bastad even thought I'm not.
The windows still haven't been reflashed or re taped with ice and water shield. I have to check on that.
.
"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
groan
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Went over today and laid out the electric.
so the decision has been made huh.
good ... time to move forward.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I'm going to go ahead and install what I can't get to later. I would be out a hundred and fifty if I walked. Anything I can get to later I'm going to run a future circuit to. Then finish it after we close. The guy that is wiring it was used to be my lead man when I first started out in the electric biz. He's going to hook me up. His boss is cool with us doing the extras on our own. I dropped off some wire for him tonight and he's gong to go ahead and pull the loops for the recessed soffit lights. Then one night this week after I get back into town we'll go out and rough in the lights. Or if I don't make it back I'll do them myself Saturday. He has his license continuing education class Saturday so he's tied up. That's why I always do mine in February when the weather sucks and nothing is happening.
.
"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
How big of a panel are you putting in?
And what kind of data lines?
jt8
"Those who wish to sing always find a song." -- Swedish Proverb
200 amp 40 circuit panel. Regular Data lines. I bought a Leviton data center saturday. Should handle everything including the CCTV.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Don't sell yourself short Judge, you're a tremendously picky bastid </caddyshack voice>Glad to hear things are looking up over there.
Looking a little up.
.
"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Just talked to Gunner. He's out of town, but his electrician buddy that's working on his new house called him this AM and said the builder had taken off the Tyvek and pulled all the windows and doors. Looks like a mulligan.http://grantlogan.net/
I was born in a crossfire hurricane..........shooby dooby do
the builder had taken off the Tyvek and pulled all the windows and doors.
So it will start raining any time now?
Let that OSB get nice and soggy and then tack the Tyvek back on. Yummy.
jt8
"Those who wish to sing always find a song." -- Swedish Proverb
pulled all the windows and doors
I wonder if they plan to re-install, or just go home."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
They must have passed inspection. Now the windows, doors and tyvek go on to the next house.
Snork. Good one.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Somebody said, "Let's get this #### finished one way or the other, before that clown gets back in town!"
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
He said "Looks like a mulligan."
I can't figgure out what a funny hair cut has to do with it..
oh..thats a Mullet.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Thanks. Just got in the room. It gets better. My sister called me tonight about 10:30 to make sure I was happy with what they were doing. I said Yep I'm pretty happy. She said that her boss is making it a point to make me happy now. That's cool.
Anyway she also told me that the local code enforcement tagged all of their houses for not using galvanized nails. That's gonna leave a mark.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
She said that her boss is making it a point to make me happy now.
That should have been his goal from the begining.http://grantlogan.net/
I was born in a crossfire hurricane..........shooby dooby do
Your right. I don't know how that got screwed up.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Well, even if the boss is trying to make you happy, I'll bet the carps are spitting on your steak.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
That's right, always be suspicious of carpenters bearing steaks.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
If your hair looks funny, it's because God likes to scratch his nuts. You nut, you.
That's what I was telling the guys at work. I'm going to have to be there all the time now. They'll be pooping in the stud cavities and covering it with drywall. LOL
One advantage I have is they know I don't play.
I'll tell you a quick story I heard that my sister told my wife yesterday. My sister was doing a final walk through with a young couple and their baby. The supervisor over the house was there. He just got promoted from punch list guy/handyman. Meaning he hung curtains in model homes and made sure the grass was cut, that kind of ####. He was also the preacher that married my sister and her husband last fall. When I met him I was under the impression that he was kind of a dimwit.
Anyway. They are doing the walk through the baby starts fussing so the husband is walking around the living room holding the baby trying to calm her down. The wife my sister, and the super are walking around. They go into one of the bathrooms and someone had peed in the empty toilet. So it had this ring around it. The two women kind of stepped back at the site and smell. My sister asked Charlie to get someone to clean it. He walks over takes his hand and uses it to wipe around the toilet to clean the ring off. Then he wipes his hand on his pants. Both women almost barfed, but kept their cool. They walk out to the living room and the maroon shakes the husbands hand before he leaves. Grossed everyone out.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Gunner, this insight into the minister/super has surely set Kentucky back a hundred years.
Please do not emigrate north.
thanks.
We need tall fences on the Ohio River. I'm calling Washington.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Yeh, that really warps any view one might have of progress since the civil war, eh?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hey there mister tact and understanding. Let me run a rough draft by you. Anyone else that cares to comment you have until morning before I send it.
Like we were talking the other day the house wrap looks great. Would you make sure the penetrations get flashed properly before the bricklayers get started? Those are very important areas to cover as we don't want condensation entering at these points. All the extra time you guys took with the windows and doors will be for nothing if these are not addressed. Also I'm assuming you are going to get the framing inspection done before brick. I would feel more comfortable if it was.
There is also a major issue with the duct work in the basement. When the HVAC guys ran the trunk across the basement they ran it through prime head room. I had intended to use that area for my wood shop. I had assumed they would have run their duct on the other side of the main beam since that area is pretty useless anyway. It seemed like common sense. Think of it in terms of being the guy that has to live with it for the next twenty or more years.It really is a pain in the butt over the long haul. I'd like to see if they are willing to come up with a solution to move it over. I wouldn't mind if they moved the furnace over to where the condensation drain line is located in the slab. That would put the furnace on the right side of the beam. As it is that's waisted floor space anyway with the line in the way. My reasoning is that I can keep that side for storage and utilities. And Truly utilize all of the rest as usable space.
One last thing before the bricklayers get going. When they do the windows can you make sure that they get the sill bricks slanted downward to keep water from building up against the window. Looking around I see the do it on some and not on others.And please make sure they cut them back short enough so the holes in the brick don't show. I think it looks tacky.
Thanks again. If you need to call me here's my cell phone number.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Here's a problem I see way more than I should, in a brick veneer house. The brick sills laid up too tight to the bottom of the window (sill or cladding). When the framing shrinks, the window frames (or sill) get pushed up and impede the opening of casements or cause dbl hungs to fit bogusly.
Have you had a chance to look at the brickwork in some of the 1 or 2 y.o. homes?A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I haven't looked at any one or two year old homes. What would be an alternative?
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Boy, I don't know what the alternative would be.
Meet with the mason?
Most houses shrink in height as the framing dries out. The brick on the foundation doesn't. A space, backed up with backer rod and caulked with Urethane caulk provides the sealed give the window frames need so they don't get pushed out of shape.
I'm sure some of these homebuilders on the site will have a good answer. I can only go on the "wrong way" I've seen it done that has caused problems down the road.
I'm thinking a brick institute should have published details on the prescribed way to brick around windows and doors. Similar to where you find the weep hole details.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I think I have that info in my files. Thanks.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
View ImageThis taken from the Internation Masonry Institute's web page. Check out the rest HEREA great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Thanks Cal. Plenty of good stuff.
.
"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
That one almost sounds too tactful. It can be interpreted as - it would be nice if his happened, but if you can't, oh well what the heyWrite it to be polite but with definite specifics. "I need to remind you to be absolutely sure the opennings are flashed correctly to Tyvek specs before the bricklayers start""It looks like the duct guys took the easiest route for them to run the main trunk in the basement, but it is a location totally unacceptable for me because it destoys any hope of usingf the basement space. It would have been fine for a crawlspace installation, but I expect to use that room so they need to move it to....."
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Gotcha. I expect the response on the duct to be that they can't move it now. My planned reply is I'll have it done by a pro after closing and I won't be shy about telling future customers about it.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
if you are going to have to pay for it anyways, work with them now to have them do it and offer to pay for the extra work. That negotiated price should be less than getting somebody else in there and the warrantee is all on one outfit then.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Here's the final draft I just sent. I'm sure they will want to be paid. If it's not too bad then I'll pay it. I've got a guy that does HVAC work. I'm going to have him look at it this weekend and tell me if it's that big a deal or not. The problem here and I used to be guilty of it myself is the subs are so used to breezing through these houses that they don't consider that someone has to deal with #### like that for years later.
Like we were talking the other day the house wraplooks great. I need to remind you to make sure thepenetrations get flashed properly before thebricklayers get started. Those are very importantareas to cover as we don't want condensation enteringat these points. All the extra time you guys took withthe windows and doors will be for nothing if these arenot addressed. Also I'm assuming you are going to getthe framing inspection done before brick. I would feelmore comfortable if it was. That way all of our basesare covered. There is also a major issue with the duct work inthe basement. When the HVAC guys ran the trunk acrossthe basement they took the easiest route and ran itthrough prime head room. I intend to use that area formy wood shop. I had assumed they would have run theirduct on the other side of the main beam since thatarea is pretty useless anyway. It seemed like commonsense. Think of it in terms of being the guy that hasto live with it for the next twenty or more years. Itreally is a pain in the butt over the long haul. I'dlike to see if they are willing to come up with asolution to move it over. I wouldn't mind if theymoved the furnace over to where the condensation drainline is located in the slab. That would put thefurnace on the right side of the beam. As it is that'swaisted floor space anyway with the line in the way.My reasoning is that I can keep that side for storageand utilities. And Truly utilize all of the rest asusable space. One last thing before the bricklayers get going.When they do the windows can you make sure that theyget the sill bricks slanted downward to keep waterfrom building up against the window. Looking around Isee they do it on some, and not on others.And pleasemake sure they cut them back short enough so the holesin the brick don't show. I think it looks tacky tohave the hole showing. I know you guys are swamped this week with theparade of homes so I figured I better say somethingbefore these things got forgot. Thanks again. If you need to call me here's mycell phone number. PS. Did the roofer ever get the vent cover over theplumbers vent stack? I hope so or all this rain isgoing to be sitting on what was perfectly dry OSB.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
"the subs are so used to breezing through these houses that they don't consider that someone has to deal with #### like that for years later."That is why a GC is supposed to have a lead man or supervisor there to tell them how and what
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
You're under the assumption that the builder or his super's actually give a #### about the finished product. Sounds like this company is one that doesn't.
Naw - Wasn't assuming that.I was pointing out what is supposed to be in place and identifying as you did more clearly, what is the reason he has so many FUs going on back to back.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I have a question that you might be able to answer.
Why do you want bricks for a sill on your windows? THats alot of possible leaks with all the joints. Why not use a 1 pc limestone sill? That way there is only two joints, one on each end where it meets the brick.
Less joints, less chance for failure.
Matt
>> Why do you want bricks for a sill on your windows? THats alot of possible leaks with all the joints. Why not use a 1 pc limestone sill? That way there is only two joints, one on each end where it meets the brick.
Or even a cast concrete sill. Call a local precast concrete place. They can make them for about $25 a linear foot of sill. I've seen lots of brick sill rot out.
and better looking
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I agree with you on the cosmetic side of it too.
Matt
Good call.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
That's a pretty nice idea. A little too late as they started bricking today. It would look pretty slick but Probably not gonna happen at this point.
.
"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Alrighty then. After I sent that Email I didn't hear anything. Friday afternoon my cell rings. It' s the supers number. I answer and either just missed the call or he hung up. I called right back and it went to voicemail. I left him a message saying that I had just missed his call and to call me back. I waited a couple of hours, no call back. I called him and he answered. When I told him who I was and that he had called me earlier, he said that it must have been an accident. He then told me that they were going to start bricking Tomorrow (Today) I asked him if they had taken care of flashing the wall penetrations? He acted confused and said he would check on it.
I was working an all nighter three hours away and knew I couldn't trust this slob so I called my buddy Justin, and asked him if he'd ride by in the morning to check on it. He called me this morning and said they were getting set up to brick and none of the wall penetrations had been flashed. I called the super and told him. He acted surprised again. When I got home tonight I drove out. Someone had caulked all the wall penetrations with some sort of caulking. Just slapped it on around all the penetrations. It will for sure stop any air from going through. But will it act as suitable flashing? It looks alright to me. But then again I'm no expert. I'll try to get some pics tomorrow. I also found a fair sized rip in the Tyvek and patched it. But I know nobody else would have taken care of it had I not caught it.
I'm just so freaking tired of hitting a block wall when it comes to common sense stuff. I'll probably request a new supervisor Monday. That in itself is unheard of. I've had it with this guy. Maybe by doing this I will rock the boat enough to get some serious attention and maybe they will realize that I'm not playing. If they refuse my request then this slob will have a chip on his shoulder. But then again I have a history of hanging it all out there. So like the Lakota say. "Hoka Hey'" The only thing that is keeping me from walking at this point is the lot itself. And the fact that my wife really has her heart set on this working. I love that woman more then anything and as a result I'll forego my usual tendency to say. "Do it my way or I'll kill you."
So what do you (and others) think is a tactful way of handeling this? I believe I've been way to nice. And I don't want to turn nasty. It really won't do me much good. But a something has to be done. Should I contact the owner at this point and fill him in on what is actually going on behind the scene? From everything I've heard of this guy wants happy customers.
My point of view is that the super I've been dealing with is lazy and really doesn't have the knowledge. I have heard tell from more then one person that there is actually a super that works for this company that cares for the cusomers and wants his houses built right. Should I lay it out there on the line and request a change? What's the best way to word it?
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Edited 10/20/2007 11:44 pm ET by Gunner
No more Mr Nice Guy. If the penetrtions are not flashed properly, get a prybar and start removing bricks while the mortar is still green. Call the super, tell him what you did and why, then call his boss, tell him the same, and tell him you want a new super."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
If I recall correctly you've been dealing with some pretty big bone heads yourself latley. I'm not going to rip a wall down.
What do you think of the deal with the HVAC trunk? That issue hasn't been brought up again. I'm seriously thinking about shopping this around to other HVAC contractors and allowing them to use it in their advertising. It could create a nice little niche market in the slowing new housing market.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
I would be tempted to stop in with my recip and a 12" blade. Drop the duct on the floor and call the super. Tell him they need to re hang it as it is on the floor. And while they are at it they can put it where it should have been in the first place. DanT
You know. That aproach is probably the easiest one.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Gunner,
call the owner.
You are not getting anywhere with this bozo super.
He is just trying to out stubborn you.
if you stay with him you will have to watch EVERY detail from here on out.
He has proven that he cannot be trusted to perform.
You are laying out BIG $$$
THE single most expensive thing you will probably ever buy.
This guy doesn't respect that...
and if the owner has any integrity he will want, and need to, know how this guy is failing you.
you have given him ample opportunities to step up and he is shirking
The issues you are having are not ones that cost more to do right (the first time)
they are (or should be ) common building practice and required by code.
Tell the owner that you have lost confidence in this super and are considering getting out of your contract.tell him you have a pitbull Lawyer from Lawn Giland who eats contractors with his morning tea.
get Shaggy to draft you a Nasty-gram on legal stationery.Be well bro!!.
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I have Transcended the need for Pants....oooohhhhmmmmmm......
Your really starting to become a pain in the azz arnt you!
I'd probably go to the owner and tell him that your doing your damndest to buy a house from him but his man is making it very difficult. I'd request/demand the other super.
You gotta know that this guy (supervisor) isnt going to give one good rats azz whether or not he does a good job on your place by now dont cha?
buying a freaking house should not be this much of a pain in the azz for christ sake. How the hell are you going to enjoy the damn place after all of this BS.
Doug
I finaly fired off another Email today and CC'd the owner in. Here it is. Coincidentaly they had called a few minutes after to tell me that the insulators were going to be starting in the morning. That means that I have to rush out and rough in all my low voltage. A buddy of mine helped me out. It's mostly done. On my way out there I got a call from my sister. The super was with her and they had gotten my Email. She was pretty upset. I explained that I was tired of getting blown off. And something had to be done. They had forgotten to change a door out going to the deck from that master bedroom and now it's bricked up. They did admit that they had forgotten it and are going to change it out.
My wife asked _____ about moving an air returnvent. Apparently that was forgotten along with thedoor. It's the one in the master bedroom. As it sitsit's in one of two places we can put a bed. We wouldlike to have it moved to another wall. The wall thatshares the kitchen if it's possible. Shouldn't be abig deal. Just don't put it in the middle of the wall.One end or the other would be great. The prefered spotis on the door end. If they want to charge us for itthat's fine. Give me a price first. What's the status on moving the trunk line for theheating and air in the basement? I'll copy and pastefrom my original Email with that request again. Hereit is below. From the 18Th of October. There is also a major issue with the duct work inthe basement. When the HVAC guys ran the trunk acrossthe basement they took the easiest route and ran itthrough prime head room. I intend to use that area formy wood shop. I had assumed they would have run theirduct on the other side of the main beam since thatarea is pretty useless anyway. It seemed like commonsense. Think of it in terms of being the guy that hasto live with it for the next twenty or more years. Itreally is a pain in the butt over the long haul. I'dlike to see if they are willing to come up with asolution to move it over. I wouldn't mind if theymoved the furnace over to where the condensation drainline is located in the slab. That would put thefurnace on the right side of the beam. As it is that'swaisted floor space anyway with the line in the way.My reasoning is that I can keep that side for storageand utilities. And Truly utilize all of the rest asusable space. Also I have CC'd _______on this as I'm hoping hewill speed up the response time. As far as the time ittakes to build the house I don't care how long thattakes as long as it's done right. But the responsetime to things like changing the door swing is killingme. Now that at least part of it has been bricked up. Also the roof is leaking like a sieve from theplumbers vent cap not being installed and a couple ofother areas. The floor is soaked and there is standingwater in the dining room in a low spot. The onlyescape for this water is to soak through the OSB. Thatin turn is going to loosen up the composition of thewood. That translates to soft spots all over thefloors. Can you please get someone to address thisissue? Again think of it in terms of someone that hasto live with the results down the road. I noticed the bricklayers are using the rope forweep holes above the windows and doors.Thanks. Thatalong with them flashing the Lintels will be the keyto keeping the windows dry and free from leaks. Iapreciate it. Just make sure they are taping up anytears they make in the house wrap. I patched a fewSaturday but I couldn't get to some of them. Again let me say that this is going to be a nicehouse. And we are still pretty excited about it. It'sthese little things that we can't let get covered upor forgotten. I know from years of taking walls apartthat the little things add up later. Thanks again for your time.
Long story short I get out to the house to start drilling holes and the super is there looking around. Of course he didn't bring up anything about the Email. So I grabbed him by the belt loops and started bringing him to Jesus again. After about ten minutes in the basement explaining to him and demonstrating why the Furnace is in the wrong spot where it sits he finaly came to the conclusion that I knew what I was talking about. He said that he would meet with the Hvac contractor and see what they could do. I left it at that.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Progress, what a wonderful thing!
btw ...
this whole elaborate plan to get out of the XMas Grab Bag with your sister is genius!
a bit expensive on the front end ... buying a house U have no real need for ...
but it'll pay U back in spades in the years to come.
coupla more emails and you'll drop right to the bottom of her XMas Card list ...
Pure Genius!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
ROAR! I'm bouncing in my chair I'm laughing so hard.
The truth is every time I send one of those, I smile because the wife and I are that much closer to enjoying a nice quite meal at home alone on the holidays and not have to listen to some drunk repeat herself over and over about how great her dry Turkey and half cooked biscuits are. All the time wondering how many ashes she's dropped in the gravy. If we ever move into this house I'll be too fricking busy playing with all the gadgets I'm putting in to want to eat anyway.
Bye the way. How are you at building second story Decks? One of the complaints we have had is they haven't given us a price on building a deck that we requested back in July. My wife called today and they wanted the dimensions again. Well when my sister called me all huffy she wanted the dimensions for the deck so she could give us a price. I told not to worry we have looked at the decks on their houses and don't want that #### hanging off the back of our house.
So I guess I need to form a deck fest.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
I tell ya-
a bunch of half drunk BTers will still do a better job building a deck than the bozos you got.
GunnerFest 2008- has a nice ring <G>
A colony of blind kids with ADD would do a better job then my builder. Gunnerfest 2008? I can't talk about it now. I've had a few beers. It's too easy to talk me into stuff.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
I think a lot of contractors have "borderline" mental disorder. This doesn't mean that they're "borderline" mental, but rather a specific type of disorder that's a little like schizo. Anyway, this sort of personality is great at making promises (and even better at back-slapping) but very erratic on the follow-through. Some of them can turn nasty real fast too, though.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
I don't have it too bad really. I was talking to my physical therapist this morning about it. She was telling me when her and her husband built their house their builder disappeared with 10k after pouring the basement. She finally tracked him down in jail. Seems he had been robbing from Peter to pay Paul on several jobs and it caught up with him. They had to hire a new builder. The first thing he told them was their newly poured basement was too close to the road. Cost them a couple grand to get that waved.
I felt better after talking to her. I'm just dealing with morons.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Is that how your wife talked you into marrying her?
A couple of beers, and yer easy?
LOL
I wish I was a bit closer, and could shake some sense into your builder. Stupid, lazy contractors bug me. We get enough bad PR without someone doing stuff like this.
Yep two beers and. "You wanna get hitched?" "Sure if you buy me more beer." The rest is history. :)
There is no shaking sense into stupid.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
new const decks are like car stereo's ...
easier to have it factory installed and built into the payments ...
but U get a way nicer one adding it yerself later.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
True Dat
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
we make a fair amount of money every year fixing builder constructed decks
I am beginning to think you are dealing with a bunch of idiots. How many times do you have to repeat yourself?
If you would have stopped mentioning things that you didn't like, they would have kept right on doing what they wanted to do.
Your contractor sounds like he is good at driving around and telling people what they want to hear.
Whats up with your sister? She should be sticking up for you and what you want.
So they brick up around a door and now they are going to fix it? Obviously you are paying them too much if they can afford to do everything two or three times. Are they doing any damage in removing these units? If so have them replaced you are paying for new, not slightly used.
Matt- Woods favorite carpenter.
The guy that wired my house is also the same guy that broke me into the electrical field years ago. He has been doing their houses for three years now. He can tell some real stories. Tonight while we were roughing in some of the low voltage my wife stopped by and he was telling her about one of the builders employees that had a house built. They ran the HVAC trunk right past all her basement windows.
Some of the stories he tells is amazing. He loves me though because I'm making them do it right.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Make them stick to your contract and plans. Let them know that you are willing to pay for any change orders, but not for ignorant installation.
Matt- Woods favorite carpenter.
You have a very valid point. I think I'm going to request a meeting with the HVAC contractor myself. I swear if they tell me they can't move it then I'm going to find a contractor that will. And I'm going to cut a deal for them to use it for advertising on the local home shopping channel. My builder also advertises on that channel.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
About that HVAC, I remember the sole plate being cut out for the Return in a stud bay...
Go into a few posts here and see the code cited about that and maybe how it can help you with the overhead supply as well.
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=95977.10Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
When I had the building inspector who is also the HVAC inspector over he said that it would pass. So I have to go with him. They had already agreed in the first Come to Jesus meeting to line the returns in the walls and seal them properly.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
I don't waste time dealing with things like demanding a new supervisor.I communicate what the problem is, what I will do if it is not corrected, and how I am documenting the problem.How to fix it is the owner's problem.
he can replace the super with a knowledgeable one who gives a ratz atz.
He can educate the one doing the job.
He can take it over himself.
He cn hire one that is qualified.I could care less HOW he solves HIS problem.
But I would be clear how I am going to solve MY problem.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
maybe it's time to tell the owner that unless things are corrected promptly, and to current specs, you'll be writing a letter to the local paper about the problems you're having. Or to the local BBB.
Builders hate bad publicity. It might light a fire under him to do the right thing.
Thanks guys. I know that I'm not wanting anything that is above and beyond. Even though they are acting that way. I really wish I could just tell them to pack this house up their arse. But if I don't try everything I can to get it built right the wife will never forgive me.
Now I need to draft another Email to the owner telling him my whole story. If I call the guy directly I'll hit a point where I start degrading his people as worthless and that will throw him into defense mode. So here we go again.
Should I include in there that I bill out at $45.00 an hour and his bill is going to start adding up if babysitting his babysitter continues?
Where is Shaggy when you need him?
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
tell him that you bill out @ $45 an hour but your layere gets that very 10 minutes and he has plenty of time to spend on him..
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I have Transcended the need for Pants....oooohhhhmmmmmm......
Hell I'd hate to know what my lawyer gets. Acording to Shaggys pricing list it's whatevers in your bank account.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
how much do you charge?How much do you got?x2.
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I have Transcended the need for Pants....oooohhhhmmmmmm......
Yep that's the price list.
Just got back from laying out my phone, cable, and data. Guess what I noticed. All the damn electrical feeders have been cut and stolen. They cut them up in the rafters over the great room. Sixteen of them about fifty feet a piece. F'N thieves.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
F'N thieves.
Damn Gunner, get a gallon of gas and a match and just start over! I know a guy
I think this was cursed from the get go.
Doug
Edited 10/21/2007 7:52 pm ET by DougU
I can't burn it down. That's where we are going to have the over flow parking for Seeyoufest next summer.
I talked to the guy across the street he hadn't seen anything but did say that his house got hit when he was building. They got about a thousand worth of wire on him.
I also talked to the people behind us. They are the ones that sold the land to the builder/ developer. I also found out that they are the ones that stipulated the subdivision rules. They have a pretty nice spread where they are at and want to preserve the look as best they can. Of course they hadn't seen anything but they do watch. The husband said that he might go over after dark and sit and wait. I told him to go ahead and kill them. He said that he wouldn't shoot anyone. But he would hold them for the police. He's a real character. Both of them are.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Edited 10/21/2007 8:13 pm ET by Gunner
Man, sorry to hear about the theft.
I know it's unlikely, but I hope you/ they catch the thieves.
How'd they get in? Wasn't the house secure? Can you bring this up to the builder, making sure the house is locked at night?
Just had a thought( a nasty, twisted one, I admit)- maybe the super is getting even with a certain cranky customer....
They can't really secure it until the brick is done.
At first I couldn't figure out what was wrong with the picture. I was figuring out my cable route. Kind of going along with the feeders when I noticed a couple of wires just hanging there in mid air. It took me a minute of staring at them and wondering. Then it dawned on me.
At first I thought sabotage. There's another electrician that has these houses and they took this one away from him because I wanted to use my guy. Rivals will do this once in awhile. But they will just cut into them and leave them to catch fire later. Then I finally realized the scope of it and figured out it was theft. It wouldn't do the super any good, they have to pay to replace all the feeders anyway.
I'm taking it as the cup is half full. They cut the feeders yea. But they didn't pull all the wiring out of the wall and take it too. So 16 feeders have to be pulled. At least the whole house doesn't have to be rewired.
I would have been really pizzed if I had all my low voltage in and it got cut. It would be a different mood then.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
there's an ex jock in Atlanta with some pitbulls for sale cheap....
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I have Transcended the need for Pants....oooohhhhmmmmmm......
Shep's thought crossed my mind, too. Any chance you could wire up a mini-security cam? The side benefit of that of course would be being able to keep an eye on your crafty craftsmen there. Any flashing/framing/HVAC mistake you see, you can just holler out in your 'voice of god from the beyond' and stop them cold.
They probably think I have a hidden camera already. Especially after I called from three hours away to tell the super that the brick layers were starting and the mechanicals poking out hadn't been flashed yet.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
I'm not from here. Only an imigrant. But I see your point.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
We need tall fences on the Ohio River. I'm calling Washington.
Please do. Tall fences will also keep the Buckeyes out of KY. And see if you can, get a Buckeye boat tax started with the proceeds going to damming up a creek somewhere in Ohio so all those clowns pulling a boat down I75 in the left lane all the way will have some place throw their Old Milwaukee cans and cigarette butts while doing 30 knots in a no wake zone.
http://grantlogan.net/
I was born in a crossfire hurricane..........shooby dooby do
Edited 10/11/2007 7:54 pm ET by seeyou
I'm telling you man, those guys are the same family as Gunner's super/minister, headed home.
You know how the mailboxes read, on the ones that the woman wants to keep her maiden name.
Smith-Smith.
A little too much family in their family, me thinks.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
A little too much family in their family, me thinks.
I've got a solution - send us your good looking girls of breeding age and we'll send you our good looking guys.http://grantlogan.net/
I was born in a crossfire hurricane..........shooby dooby do
headed home.
I didn't catch that the first time. If that's the case, they're going to TN or GA, but they're clogging up the northbound lanes on Sundays pooping in their hands and throwing it out the windows.http://grantlogan.net/
I was born in a crossfire hurricane..........shooby dooby do
Alright then.
When you came up here did you see any of those types here in Maumee.
Did the girls at the Star Diner do anything "for" you?
Well?A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Did the girls at the Star Diner do anything "for" you?
Nope. But I didn't go there, so how could they? Huh? Well?
When you came up here did you see any of those types here in Maumee
Just Jeff Buck and I'm basing my opinion solely on his hairdo and he's from Pittsburg.
Don't get all worked up, man. Even if the stereotypical view we have of Buckeyes around here was true, the one's that I know (you, Rez, MarkH, Haz, etc.) kinda buck the trend.
From what I saw, Maumee's a little slice of heaven. Kind of like Lexington. I hope you'll stop by on the way to Tyvekfest.
http://grantlogan.net/
I was born in a crossfire hurricane..........shooby dooby do
Grant, the problem with this forum is you can't see my smiling #### 'd face.
and I don't use those emoticons.
You bet I'll drop in.
Same to you if you cross the border and head north.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
and I don't use those emoticons.
Yeah, me either. And that's what I figured, but you never know.http://grantlogan.net/
I was born in a crossfire hurricane..........shooby dooby do
"and I don't use those emoticons.
Yeah, me either. And that's what I figured, but you never know."
http://grantlogan.net/
My goodness, I HATE them silly things so bad, I'd rather have a sister in a ......
You Know the rest
don't hate me because I'm beautiful ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Don't know if you caught this or not. Thought you would enjoy it.
Anyway she also told me that the local code enforcement tagged all of their houses for not using galvanized nails. That's gonna leave a mark.
Hey if you hadn't been so observant with that one picture of the pressure treated lumber none of this would have ever come about. Nice work.
Can I send the angry carps to your house when they come to lynch me?
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
U think they can build a proper gallows?
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
If I was sentenced to hang. I would want them to build mine. I think they have to set you free if it doesn't work.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
They would build it out of PT lumber with the wrong nails...
you could file an appeal and it would fall apart long before you ever got to it!!!.
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I have Transcended the need for Pants....oooohhhhmmmmmm......
That's right.
I'd hate to see the trap door they would build.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
It probably wouldn't open....
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I have Transcended the need for Pants....oooohhhhmmmmmm......
Your probably right.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
I think you're being paged:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=95635.1
jt8
"Those who wish to sing always find a song." -- Swedish Proverb
Hey...I'm still following along with this 400+ messages concerning your fiasco!
Yes, I smiled a big one at that statement.
I called one out at $170K roof job yesterday....specs call for a separation membrane between all aluminum fascia covers and the treated subfascia 2x12's and secure eith S/S fasfteners. I had reviewed this requirement with the sheet metal lead on three occasions.
He did it his way..."always done it that way"...now he has to remove the gutter, the 12"fascia system and install the separation and reinstall using s/s fasteners.
"I can't believe that wood can eat-up my aluminum...this is bull****!" So said the owner of the company that did the install.
Lack of education by all layers in the sales and distribution, lack of information in the trade professional organization and publications.
Stay on them Gunner. All the way to the end!
.............Iron Helix
Thanks man. I will.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8&mode=related&search= Mercy now
Remember the house I mentioned, with tyvek only on the front, cut flush to the corners? Found out why yesterday. They're only using it as a slip-sheet for the brick, to keep the mortar off the osb. The rest of the house is osb--weathered nicely sitting open for 2 months--and yesterday they installed the vinyl siding directly over that. One layer of tape around each window and nothing else.
You mean vinyl siding directly over the osb with no felt or housewrap of any sort?
Did they have 1x furring for the vinyl?
been seen that and hard to believe
Yes.No.
heh heh I've heard of these things.
One of the strange mysteries of life.
What's wrong with vinyl over OSB without housewrap? That is the way all the houses are done around here.
Just kidding on the first, but serious on the second. At least your case had tape around windows. Here we are lucky if the window flanges are backcaulked.
I'm surprised it isn't code by now, but then all the reverse-lapped housewrap water damage would start if it were. Now at least the wet OSB dries out faster.
Our brainiac master carpenter did that on a house he built for my boss. I think it was in the What a Maroon thread. That's been at least three years ago. I'm curious to know how it's doing.
We do not inherit the earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our children. Native American Proverb
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x8B6C54ggY&feature=related
So Gunner how is the house coming?
Did you get the HVAC trunk moved?
Is the brick done yet?
Your sister still talking to you?
Any pics of the progress?
Set a date yet for the Gunnerdeck fest?
I was just out there today. They moved the return over to the other side of the beam. That gave me three feet back. It was a compromise. I don't know if I explained it earlier but it's not really the HVAC guys fault. The builder specs the furnace be placed on one end of the basement instead of the middle like it should be. This keeps the furnace out of the middle of the basement. I don't like the idea because it makes the furnace less efficient. They were just doing what they were told. It would have worked out nice on my floor plan because there is a spot for it to tuck into in the middle under the stairs. That's neither here nor there now. We found a cheap agreeable middle ground.
The brick has been done for a while now. I must have posted about that in the Gunners new crib thread. I kind of dropped out of this one after the Tyvek was taken care of. The brick layers did a great job.
My sister is still not over it I don't think. And I don't care. We bumped into them the other night while out at the house. They were looking at theirs. She commented on how nice a job they did grading my yard out. (her house is 99% complete and she still has mounds everywhere.) I smiled and said. They're scared I'll make them haul it all away and redo it if I find a rough spot. She jumped back and yelled. "That's for God Damn sure." I offered to go over to her house and make a punch list for her. I was obviously joking. She assured me it would be alright. I did go look at theirs and decided the trim guy isn't doing our quarter round when it gets to that point. We have the same guy. And he does a very good job. Nice tight coped joints everywhere. Doors hung perfectly. Nice work. But he doesn't return ends. Everyone of her ends on her quarter round are butt cut and left open grain. Makes a great job look like heck. Totally amazing.
I've got some pics I'm on my wife's laptop and have to download Irfanview before I upload them though.
Deckfest this spring baby!
"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure." Dan Quayle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x8B6C54ggY&feature=related