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I am currently renovating my house built in 1901. The house has been resided twice and am considering striping down to the original sheeting. If I go this approach, is it worth the time and money to wrap the house with tyvex? If so how do I seal the wrap around the windows & doors?
Thanks Eric
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Replies
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Tyvek or 15# felt, either would be fine with me..
what kind of siding are you going to put up?
we use alot of ice & water membrane around our openings now... but the type of siding would have some bearing on the flashing details, especially assming you have the original windows still on the house..
most of the windows of that era , had a sub-casing built into the frame with an applied molding over the top, and the siding laps the sub-casing..
you usually need a small square of metal flashing cut into the sill and behind the applied molding to intercept the water running down the joint made by the intersection of the siding and the applied molding.
this flashing is to roll the water out and over the top of a concealed course of the siding...
you also need a head flashing which is usually missing in the original detail.. (wasn't used in 1911)
while the siding is off is a good time to scrape and prime the casing edges and other areas that you will never have access to again...
*Tyvek is a brand name for Dupont; there are other "housewraps" out there but Tyvek is really tough. To find out how to wrap the windows and doors, Dupont will send you literature with easy to follow directions.They have an 800 # -- it's printed on the housewrap house wrap and is something like 1-800 Tyvek!) Your local lumber yard will have it in the product literature.I'd say use the Tyvek and NOT #15 felt, especially if you are using any kind of vinyl siding. It is a little known fact that vinyl siding manufacturers recommend AGAINST using felt under vinyl siding.Tyvek is stretched mylar, mylar is also used to make the material Goretex and they both breathe one-way. The moisture escapes out to the outside but moisture does not enter. When you where a Goretex jacket you don't sweat but stay dry. Same principal applies to your house.I had my house wrapped with this stuff for over 2 years before I finally got all the siding on and never had a leak. (The manufacturer only recommmends a maximum of 6 months exposure, though).I have also used the pink Corning wrap but I don't like it as well, although it is less slippery. Tyvek is extremely slippery!! Be sure to use adequate precautions when you are working above first story levels. Good luck with your project.
*gee, michelle... tell me more about 15# felt...what is it that u don't like about 15# felt ...yes , i'd agree that it is a little known fact.. i'd be interested in some chapter and verse....like which mfrs are recommending u NOT use 15# felt and under what conditions..do u really think he's gonna strip this house down to the sheathing and put up vinyl siding?shudder.........
*Mike,I also have been told by a few sales reps ( norandex, wolverine I think)that under vinyl siding 15# felt is not recomended something to do with heat build up and staining .Vince
*Vince...i don't have a lot of references or application manuals , the ones i do have don't have any negatives in them.. ((((like DON'T USE SUCH & SUCH))))did u think those reps knew what they were talkin about ,.. er just blowin smoke?reason i ask is cuz there must be 5 bazillion feet of the stuff installed on top of 15 # felt.. be interestin to know...the latest studies i 've seen say Tyvek & 15# felt ... both good for sheathing coverage... all the rest were a waste of time and money.... think it was JLC article about the testing....i thot it was interesting that 15# felt would fare so well after all those years as the old faithful standby.....Mike
*Anyone ever see Tyvex after a few years. I was told by a Carp. Tech teacher, that he saw alot that started to disintegrat and weae thru after a few years on the buildings. He worked mostly commercial. Haven't heard this from anyone else. A few of his building methods weren't exactly standard, so I've always wondered. Jeff
*Here's my recommendation re: felt and vinyl...use the felt, just don't use vinyl siding. In your case, Eric, properly installed Tyvek or felt will work well. Your choice.One other thing, though...on an older home, before drastically improving the envelope, give a good look around in the basement and eliminate, as best as you can, sources of moisture (liquid and vapor) infiltration. "Friends don't let friends install vinyl."
*Hey Mongo, I like the vinyl line. Redwood is almost impossible to find, they say we only have 20 ys of cedar left, what are we gonna do? Never mind, I'll just retire, this way I'll know for sure when it's time.
*Eric, My building wrap of choice for wood siding applications is red rosin paper. It is an effective wind barrier, allows water vapour to pass thru to the outside of the house, and if your siding does allow moisture to penetrate, it will wick and disperse to allow evaporation. It is als much more environmentally friendly than tyvek type housewraps and felt paper. It also has historical precedent as it has been around for a long time. It works just fine, especially with board sheathing which is my guess for your house. Regional differences can contribute alot to your choice of siding. Redwood is still available and fairly reasonable in the west. Cedar is too, but the price is rising as the demand on the east coast and colorado increase. When I lived in Maine pine clapboards and cedar shingles were popular siding choices. I just talked with a local rep who is pushing spruce lap siding. So your possibilitys are many. In my mind wood siding is still the best choice with longevity and the environment in mind.walk good david
*David... differnt strokes...but what is enviornmently unsound about 15 # felt?the asphalt is locked in.. the only way it can be released is if the house burns..i've worked on siding jobs that were done 75 years ago, and red rosin was the choice at that time..but it offers no rainscreen protection, so if yur siding gets penetrated .. yur wall is penetrated..was often a source of coner framing rot.. the corners opened.. or disappeared after 60 years and teh red rosin paper offered no protection.. the 15 # felt corners were just fine..and 15# felt does breathe... Tyvek (not the others ) and 15# felt are almost identical in that regard..its almost like the dupont guys said (((why don't we reinvent 15# felt, only this time we'll make it stronger and put it on larger rolls )))...
*Mongo....LOVED the vinyl comment!!!I was treating my cedar board and batten house last year and a friend stopped by. Looked at me, and said "I'll take vinyl siding any day." NOT me man....I'd treat the cedar every year if I needed to before vinyl.(Thank God I don't have too!) I know vinyl is for some people...just not me.For that matter, I leave the sheathing exposed before vinyl.
*Gee Whiz. I was only trying to provide helpful information, not start the great debate.There are advantages and disadvantages to vinyl siding, as with most building material choices. For those of you who might have looked at it 10-15 years ago and formed your opinion then, it has changed some. It is available in a greater variety of different thicknesses and qualities, comes in many more colors, and the selection of styles is much greater.Mostly one sees the imitation clapboard, thin strips of 3. I installed 8" rolled lip on my house and it is fairly distinctive looking. If there is a way to post a photo I would show you. With the Tyvek under the siding, I'm looking forward to a lot of years of low or no maintenance.By the way, there are now styles that mimic Victorian architectural details so, yes, Eric conceivably could strip down to sheathing and install vinyl siding.As far as my personal involvement with #15 felt goes, I never use it. I always use #30.
*Mike, Building paper, be it rosin paper, 15# felt, tyvek or newspaper is not protection from the weather. That is the responsibility of the siding. Properly chosen, installed and detailed. Building paper's function is to prevent air infiltration (wind) from entering the wall cavity without restricting wall breathability. I too have found rot in old houses and fairly new houses due to weather, but in each case it could be attributed to poor siding installation and detail and in old houses, lack of repair maintainance. How many builders do you know that rely on caulk to solve their siding problems? Tyvek and the other new housewraps and 15# felt to a lesser extent pass vapour but do not pass liquid. Moisture builds up on either side of the housewrap and is absorped by the wood. The comment in one post about tyvek being like gore-tex is true, but like gore-tex if the moisture leaving the body or house reaches the dew point, it is no longer vapour, but liquid and does not transfer through. You become soaked in sweat. On a house the siding will eventually soak it up until it evaporates, but it takes longer on the sheathing side for it to transfer through. Rosin paper wicks the liquid moisture and disperses it out over the paper allowing better transfer from the sheathing to outside the siding by evaporation. And since it has better blotter capabilitys than wood it will hold the moisture longer until it can be evaporated rather than soaking the wood. If you want to keep the weather out of your walls, select an appropriate siding to begin with and install and flash it properly. As far as being environmentally sound, my complaints consider the manufacturing process and all the tangents incured to the final consumption at the end of the life span. I would like to think that in 2-300 years when the house finally rots away, that what is left has few toxins as possible and can enrich the soil life rather than kill it to complete the circle. For the record, I have used felt paper in certain situations. Usually it is where I may have siding exposed to saturation through snow accumulation like at dormer walls or on the sunless north side of a house. There I will run a starter course of felt and continue with rosin above. I also try to use a siding that is better at handling those problem areas than I may use on the remaining areas of the house. Like you say, "different strokes". You can't teach an old dog new tricks. or an old dinosour. I like your postings though. I detect a wealth of knowledge and like the honest dialouge. Keep at it. Walk good. Davi
*Michelle - I don't have a copy of Tyvek's installation instructions, because I don't use it, but I distinctly remember reading something to the effect that it is not meant for stopping bulk water. I have and will continue to use felt paper under all types of siding, although I hope I never install vinyl again. Recent studies and my own experience with Tyvek has not impressed me.As far as the Gore-Tex analogy, it neither keeps out water nor keeps you from sweating. It may be better than nothing but I can assure you it is not waterproof. Especially after it has become dirty or been washed several times. I might not have scientific proof but I think spending many, many days and nights getting rained on outside with no shelter has satisfied my curiosity.
*Jeff - I have done renovation work on a few (not many) houses that had Tyvek put on when they were built, or at least previously. What I saw made me swear off Tyvek. I saw quite a bit of water infiltration and no evidence that it allowed the water to escape as advertised. Obviously this isn't proof Tyvek doesn't work but it impressed me. I think the single biggest factor is that almost nobody (at least around here) installs it properly. I have almost never seen it lapped properly, much less taped, and for that matter I only see flashing of any kind on about 50% of the houses built around here. Another factor is how long it is left to weather before it is covered up. Any way, IMHO tar paper is more forgiving of installation errors. Some of you may not agree, but that has been my experience.
*Lasies and Gentlemen. When you are young stsaining and painting wood siding is no big deal. But when you reach your 70s it becomesd a big geal. so vinyl becomes a necessity in spite of the toxic compounds in the PVC, and the off-gasing. GeneL.
*Gene-I've my fingers crossed that the treatments to presenve keep getting better and better, and I shouldn't have to worry about this by then.Other options include making some sons to do the work... Or perhaps the lotto, so I can watch someone else use that god forsaken 40ft ladder!
*gene....vinyl is NEVER final... and the (((average))) installation has enough flaws to create unseen damage that will have to be repaired when the 70 year ols couple no longer has an income to afford the repairs..want long life, good looks,, and low maintenance.try fiber cement siding....
*Last night I had a dream...I was walking down the street and on the sidewalk there was a homeless man living in a cardboard box. I said, "Cardboard?", He said "It's better that vinyl." He didn't say anything about felt or tyvek. Maybe tonight...I swear that if everything I wrote is true, then it very well could be.
*Mongo....too deep fer me...u been studyin yur navel again haint ya?
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I am currently renovating my house built in 1901. The house has been resided twice and am considering striping down to the original sheeting. If I go this approach, is it worth the time and money to wrap the house with tyvex? If so how do I seal the wrap around the windows & doors?
Thanks Eric