We are finishing up our home, started with Ubuildit. Some projects may go well with these guys, but ours sure didn’t. The “consultant” was much more interested in pleasing his subs than helping us build a good home. At one point the garage wall would move 1-2 inches when pushed on, this is after he and his framer tried to solve the problem Their plumbers took 6 weeks to do a 2 week job, their framers could not put the windows in right and tried to blame the manufacturer. It took a lawyer to get us out of the one-sided contract. As “consultants” they have very little liability (if any) for their bad advice. I am now getting a 2nd job to pay for their mistakes. We found better subs at lower prices. Our “consultant’s” own subs tell us they never saw him work outside the office. I hope others can avoid the problems we had!
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Replies
Sorry to hear about your troubles! What state is your house located in ?
Sometimes in the world of construction, All it takes is a Dog, a Ladder & Pick-up truck and your in business!
ohoh
Oh, lordy!
Thanks, I'm on it!
-christiI don't need not stinkin' signature!
Hey, Don,
I'm a VP at UBuildIt corporate.
Please contact me at headquarters. I'd love to hear more about this story!
We strive for fabulous service and sounds to me like you've got a few questions about that!
Edited 3/21/2005 3:12 pm ET by UBuildIt
Don,
I sent you an email today. Please contact me so we can lodge a formal complaint.
I will need to know what office you were working with.
Regards,
Christi
Edited 3/17/2005 1:56 am ET by UBuildIt
Christi-
My respect for taking the bull by the horns to resolute the situation. Good on Ya!!
Be interested to hear how this works out. Remember, half the country and some of others are watching you on this one!! Good luck to don, hope you can help him.Quality, Craftsmanship, Detail
Hook:
I have to look into it, man.
I've got an unhappy client and that ain't good. We live by service, quality and reputation and that's just the heart of it.
I haven't heard from Don, but I checked the complaint database and can't find anything like this....it's extremely rare for jobs to stop once they've started construction with us.
I just need a client number or the name of the franchise partner and I can track this down. Heck, the location will do. That's the nice thing about us and client complaints is that it's not like we're selling hamburgers and dealing with hundreds of thousands of transactions -- I can lay my hands on the complete records for any project with relative ease.
It is a smidge suprising that Don could be this mad and not ever had complained to us about it. I usually get an earful if there's a big issue. So, I'm really hoping he comes back.
-christi
Edited 3/17/2005 1:56 am ET by UBuildIt
Well, I hope it works out for everyone. Sounds like, though, he's got some good fuel!!
Again, good for you to track things down.Quality, Craftsmanship, Detail
So what is protocol when you end up with a bad contractor-or if one of your reps/contractors/project managers goes bad?
I'd love to see that contract you're using-sounds like that's part of what upset the client. Strange that he didn't call head office on it.
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
Okay, seem like I have a few choices here:
1) bad operator
2) rogue consulant
3) misunderstanding
4) client not doing their part
5) mystery client
6) unqualified sub (or bad customer service)
In any case, I want to get to the bottom of it. We have a robust compliance mechanism that has teeth. If I've got an unqualified consultant, that's a huge no-no. Same with bad operator (franchise owner).
So how it works is that I get the facts (documents, both sides of the story, all contracts, all plans, time logs for consulants, mileage logs, etc). If I determine the franchise partner is at fault, I issue a recommendation to fix it. Same with consultant. Now, that may or may not involve a 'default letter'. If I issue a default letter, it's serious business and with enough evidence and failure to cure the deficit, I can and will take away the franchise.
Now in cases 3 and 4, I get with client, franchise partner and consultant and encourage them to get together and hash out their differences.
In the case of 5, I either have a franchise that is doing business and not paying royalties, so I can jerk the franchise forthwith -or- I have a complaint from a person who was never a client.
I've never heard of a client case with attorneys involved that we weren't notified of, but I guess there's always a first.
Today may be my day for 'unpleasant firsts'.
So, which it is remains to be seen and I'll take swift and appropriate action in any case.
-peace
Christi
edited to add 6)
Edited 3/17/2005 1:57 am ET by UBuildIt
Similar business here Christi, I give everyone the benefit of the doubt. When it comes to someone being unsuitable-the faster you discover them and send them on their way the better for all involved. Your other contractors/franchises don't need to get dragged down by clowns.
Some of these folks may feel maligned, but they knew the rules when they signed on. They flagrantly went against the rules by the time it comes to that point... you really are helping them by sending them on their way.
When it comes to maliciousness... there are plenty of libelous nasty people who will do anything to hurt you.
I got myself full scale email targeted denial of service yesterday. I think it's very entertaining myself.
Think of it this way... a few posts on forums are not going to hurt you. You are a pro and apparently you have everyone's respect here. I know you have my respect.
I've seen some very strange things happen in the first year of my license program, but seeing people thrive and others who are ecstatic with what we build for them is simply musical. Well done Christy
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
ok ... I read thru this whole sorid tale ...
and only have one thing to add ....
I can't decide which I wanna be when I grow up ....
either ....
2) rogue consulant
or
5) mystery client !
I'm leaning towards "rogue consultant" ... just sounds like it pays better?
but both are very 007-ish ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
I don't know how someone posted with my name. I had to use the lower case don . Because I could not use my real name as I did on the WebX . Good ol prospero told me that my name was already being used. And Don who scratches glass was using the upper case. So it is not me that you want ,but the mistery don.
I am building my house myself . Oh and with the help of many of the breaktimers. But thanks for wanting to give someone hell for not getting things done for me . Please don't it will only make thing rougher on me.
well, there's my brother don, and my other brother don, and my other brother ,don....
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
so, how is your brother don doing thesse days?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Seems a while back I had a similar problem........................
I think there were several dozen John Svensons....................But I am the one, the only,.........................John Svenson, builder, remodeler, NE Ohio
hi, i'm john svenson !Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I've met you both and I think Blodgett is John Svenson....or was it Beckman??http://www.quittintime.com
There is a login name and a screen name withthis porspero software.
Your logion is one only, but anyone can assume the same screen name youhave. Whej we went to prospero, I had to identify myself as pifin instead of piffin, thne change my screen name back to piffin.If I wanted to jump thru three hoops, I could bhe reporting this as don, while you would get the email notification that I had respnded as pifin.Make sense?I didn't think so. prospero is a female
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hey don, I see your a new member.
You going to come forward with the info for ubuildit?
So, I'm just a newbie, so 'xplain it to me Ricky.......
Whaddya think that means?
I didn't even think to look.
-christi
Edited 3/17/2005 1:57 am ET by UBuildIt
Might not mean nothing, just found it interesting thats all.
I looked to see if it was someone that has been around here for awhile. I guess you can read a lot into any of it.
We'll have to see, kinda wondering.
Thought it interesting that it was his first post to this forum.
Doug
Edited 3/16/2005 11:13 pm ET by Doug@es
Gawd, how did you figure out it was his first post? A newbie found the forum, signed up and posted this as his first post?
Let's give Don the benefit......if he's got a legit beef, he'll be back or he'll contact me and I'm hopeful that we can reach resolution. I've emailed him and posted back, so time will tell.
I've also got the word out with our 105 office to send me files on a guy name Don, who didn't finish construction any time in the last 5 years. Who knows, maybe I'll find him first!
-peace
Christi
Edited 3/17/2005 1:57 am ET by UBuildIt
In the message box, click on the blue underlined name of either From or To and an info window will pop up. It will automatically tell you when that person became a member, and how many posts they have made. Some people also fill inj some personal info.
Right now it looks to me like Don is a phantom.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Can't wait to see how this all turns out.
Christi's got a bit of the ol' fireball in her, don't she?
be liking a strong woman
I am becoming increasingly worried that there isn't enough anxiety in my life
'Course Andy went moronic on us and deleted the last thread that had the promise of fresh vibrancy on it.
be unforgivable
I am becoming increasingly worried that there isn't enough anxiety in my life
If that's the thread I'm thinkin' of, why did Andy delete it?
Andy's got some 'xplainin' to do.
-c
Edited 3/17/2005 1:58 am ET by UBuildIt
It was the 'Hey, that's My Work' thread with the controversy between two posters that had worked together on a project.
A discussion was ensuing over the correct terminology claiming work done as a contractor/designer if the actual labor was done by themselves or not.
I am becoming increasingly worried that there isn't enough anxiety in my life
pppfffftttbbbb! (that's my tongue sticking out at you)
cut it out, dude-----I'm tryin' to be serious, here!
me and Don, we got business to do!
-peace
Christi
Edited 3/17/2005 1:57 am ET by UBuildIt
Little strange. Sign up and post one gripe and then disappear? To what end?
Does someone have an axe to grind?
Maybe Don just can't find his way back?
Maybe I'm too suspicious?
Doesn't smell right.
Anyway,Christi, the way you have handled this so far is very impressive.
You go, girl!
I got your back.Heck If I know....
Dang gurl , Im proud for ya!
I wouldnt want ya mad at me , no mamn!
Tim Mooney
I don't get mad, sir.... (cheesy grin)
We just need to get this man some satisfaction. It's the right thing to do.
-christi
Edited 3/17/2005 1:58 am ET by UBuildIt
I dont think he exists.
Theres another Don here ;
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=55614.1
But when you look at his profile hes been around a while .
This looks like a case of off season Halloween antics comming from in house.
Dirty trick.
Who ever could have easily signed on this temp name as Rez does it all the time. Now hes under his regular name we would recognize. I second the motion of pantom trickster.
Not funny
Tim Mooney
Well he writes like a newbie without paragraphs.
I imagine he was a lurker in process of building his house and now trying to understand what is going on.
And had been roaming here devouring data until the word Ubuildit caught his eye since he was involved with them.
Being wired up at distraught at his current situation it was enough to pull him out of lurkerhood in order to voice his opinion.
That's my vote of the scenario.
I am becoming increasingly worried that there isn't enough anxiety in my life
In any case, he can contact me privately (no harm, no foul) and he's got our full attention. No matter what.
Edited 3/21/2005 3:12 pm ET by UBuildIt
I looked it over . Not everyone here posts well. Piffin and I dont check spellin and its about typin .
He does a wonderful job comared to our buddy Andy. I remember of blasting each other over that . Andy was gettin it and I came out of the corner backin him. Its his style and its just Andy. He writes with emotion . Crazy as heck too.
Im on a holdin pattern.
Let's all hold.
Give the man a chance. No use speculatin'.
'kay?
-peace
Christi
Edited 3/17/2005 1:59 am ET by UBuildIt
Christi,
Have you ever considered the possibility that maybe you could use a signature?
be signed
I am becoming increasingly worried that there isn't enough anxiety in my life
She dont need no dadgum signature.
Says it right there^
Try this one, friend.
-c
I've spent my life adrift,Until Razzman gave me a lift.Be signed!, he prodded - I bowed slowly and nodded.Leave the philosophy for over a drink,Don't ferget to leave the glass in the sink.Peer pressure got the best of me,Mark my words, I'll be sigless before he.
~Peace
~Peace
ah yes, ~Peace.
I am becoming increasingly worried that there isn't enough anxiety in my life
You should contact SYSOP and see if they can get an IP address for Don. They might be willing to either share the info or shut down the name if it is a phantom since this was a libelous post. I beleive that is a no-no in their Terms of Use Agreement. Please get back to us with any new info.F
If he did it to hurt Ubuildit... he seems to have had the exact opposite effect... at least with me. I have been impressed with Christie's offer of assistance and attempts to track it down. I also have been pleased to see her resistance to writing it off as "just another yayhoo"... and chasing it as far as I would say she can.... at least without additional information.
Errors and problems will occur. It is how the company responds when contacted about the problem, that is the true measure of quality service. Franchises... by their very nature, are tough to control and maintain a consistent product. It seems that Christie is working to keep the franchisees on the straight and narrow... and that is one of the keys to success for a franchise organization.
I don't know if Sysop can release the IP... but a simple visit to samspade.org with the IP will trace-route it back to a particular area... and perhaps he could be kind enough to e-mail that locale to Christie (so that she can check with the office closest to the poster's location). Just a thought.
Edited 3/17/2005 2:07 am ET by Rich from Columbus
"he seems to have had the exact opposite effect... at least with me. I have been impressed with Christie's offer of assistance and attempts to track it down."Same here. I wouldn't be embarrassed to walk down any street or into any bulding alongside this professional.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hmmmm... seems "don" is now "spencer" over at gardenweb. Seems like Christie's company has a troll posting all over the web (don't you feel special?)....
****
quote from gardenweb: (http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/remodel/msg0222525213735.html?13)
RE: Experience with UBuildIt?
Posted by: Spencer27 (My Page) on Tue, Mar 15, 05 at 22:54
We are finishing our home ourselves that was begun with Ubuildit. I has been the worst experience of my life. The consultant seemed knowledgable & sharp but turned out to be a more of a "used car salesman" as my wife would put it. His own subs said he had no real construction experience-just doing paperwork in the office. After getting bad advice that has cost us 1000's of dollars we found better and less expensive subs on our own. It took a lawyer to get us out of the contract. As "consultants" they have very little legal liablity, if any. You will bear the financial burden of their mistakes. I am having to take on another job to pay for our home. Everytime there was a problem, he was more interested in keeping his subs happy than helping us have a quality home. I hope others will not have to repeat our mistake. Feel free to contact me if you have any questioins.
****
FWIW, Christie... the poster over there identifies himself as from "SW Ohio" (Cinci area I would presume). Building a house on 8 acres. Shouldn't be too tough to track that one down.... IF it actually exists.
Edited 3/17/2005 2:23 am ET by Rich from Columbus
Nice job Rich. Outstanding detective work.
I agree with you about hurting Ubuildit. Her efforts are above and beyond the norm for many companies today. Talk about going that extra mile...she sure is.
She'll be pleased with your efforts as well, I'm sure.
Good catch, Rich. I thought it was someone with an axe to grind.
Heck If I know....
You lose.
I don't know. It's just that I don't know. I'm thinking the writer could be just a typical 'at wit's end home builder' that is lashing out at the world.
I'm not ready to cry troll or intentional unmerited sabotage yet.
All we really have at this point outside of opinions are the viewing of two email posts from the same husband homeowner complaining about Ubuiltit.
Some of you guys have been around the world too much and seen a lot of the dark side of folks which might be swaying your thoughts.
I think we're still jumping to conclusions on the matter.
Take this possibility of the guy, a husband finally building his home, years of wanting coming to fruition.
A little versed in homebuilding by reading up on it. Just enough to be dangerous.
Mind filled with ideals.
Suddenly things aren't matching up to the preconceived thoughts of expectations.
"This isn't right." "How come?" and the ensuing witch hunt no stone left unturned, feeling ugly and trod on he desires to voice his anger.
A possibility is all I'm saying.
Could be similar posts from the same guy saying pretty much the same thing in other forums, too.
I'm thinking we'll all be hearing something firm about it today.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
I think maybe you get the prize. Maybe I'm naive, but intentional sabotage would just blow me away.
I've got a line on this and will have details shortly.
-christi~Peace
This suspense is killing me and I'm trying to get out the door.
be daylight's burning...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
did you get an email? or have I hit the garlic too heavy?
Be unwell
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Sell your cleverness, Purchase Bewilderment"...Rumi
email? Don't need no stinkin' email.
be an emil, be an edward, just don't call me late for supper.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Ive been to court four times .
Once as an expert witness , once to reinforce my action as an inspector, Once sued , and one , dont know the word , but an accesssory for letting something happen. So they "added" me to the suit . All construction related.
My father was sued once and he sued 5 times all construction related.
When someone gave their case to be comming in court , I was the one who guessed the out come here.
Ive dealt with this stuff for 35 years in one way or another .
From my experience which is little to what is here in all of you;
If people can eat it , a lot of times they do. Sure they will ask for it to be corrected most all the time . But to take a stand and fight , its usually over somthing they cant eat. Getting a part time job is not being able to eat it . A serious money out lay that came from their pockets would be close to fighting. There are all kinds of people and its only guessing there.
The first thing a lawyer does is call the right people. I was called by lawyers several times in the inspectors office over clients claims of contractor negligence or wrong doings. I have also been approached by contractors over the same thing, but never their lawyer. But, in each case they talked to me , I told them I thought they were at fault or "not done yet".
Christie thinks she will find out today by the sounds of her post , so this may be my last chance before judgement .
If the man is hurting that bad and has talked to a lawyer , the lawyer would have called in to Ubuildit. He would have called an inspector , or who ever would offiically know before he set his spikes. They take winning seriously and they would gather their information you can bet on it.
Tim Mooney
Good point. If there is a lawyer involved... EVERYONE would know about it.... definitely to include UBuildit corp.
I, too, will be curious as to the "species" we have here!
And I wish I could say that I have only been to court that many times. In the former life in HR... we would be called upon many times to provide background detail in a court case. In Chicago... I quit counting when the court personnel would yell "RICH" in a manner similar to the greeting Norm got when entering Cheers!
Edited 3/17/2005 2:39 pm ET by Rich from Columbus
Would be interresting to hear Shglaw or Bob comment on it but they might as well choose not to if they read it .
Im going back to my corner as Im probably in trouble with Christie as it is ............
Tim Mooney
Good work Rich.
How did you do it ?
Ancient Chinese Seeeeccccret.... ;)
Black helicopters? Friends in high places? Cyber sleuth? Mousaad? Guy with too much time on his hands? LOL
Naw.... actually... just did a google search for Ubuildit. For some strange reason... when searching on a company's name... google tends to rank negative information higher than "normal" information. Saw it explained once... only took from it that negative information was ranked higher... the rest was a bunch of cyber-gobledy-goop
I will admit that I was looking to see if many similar complaints had been leveled. Not a lot... mostly people complaining that it was "too much money in the initial proposal and they decided to give it a whirl on their own <cough><cough><cough>.
Second page on google brought about a thread... that thread led to the thread I referenced... ahhh,.......
TROLL ALERT ! (Or at least a guy that doesn't know who he is)
So no biggy... glad I could help...
maybe?.... maybe not?... still sheds light on the topic.
The Drama is building, this is going to be Good, real Good!
I realy doubt that they are the same person.The name is different, the details are different, the writing is different, the speficic compliant is different.When I have seen people doing this there is usually a "signature" in there messages that is very clear.I did not see any of that here.BTW, a number of forums (such as BT) are not searchable by google and the like. And I think, but not sure, in some of them the forum google can only see the title of the messages. It just seems like that by some of the hits I see.BTW, I did the same time to find some one that was posting some garbage in a thread on GFCI's and found that she was posting some of the same garabage at bobvila.com.
Read 'em one after the other... it is the same person:
"We are finishing up our home, started with Ubuildit. Some projects may go well with these guys, but ours sure didn't. The "consultant" was much more interested in pleasing his subs than helping us build a good home. At one point the garage wall would move 1-2 inches when pushed on, this is after he and his framer tried to solve the problem Their plumbers took 6 weeks to do a 2 week job, their framers could not put the windows in right and tried to blame the manufacturer. It took a lawyer to get us out of the one-sided contract. As "consultants" they have very little liability (if any) for their bad advice. I am now getting a 2nd job to pay for their mistakes. We found better subs at lower prices. Our "consultant's" own subs tell us they never saw him work outside the office. I hope others can avoid the problems we had!"
<!----><!---->
And…
<!---->
"We are finishing our home ourselves that was begun with Ubuildit. I has been the worst experience of my life. The consultant seemed knowledgable & sharp but turned out to be a more of a "used car salesman" as my wife would put it. His own subs said he had no real construction experience-just doing paperwork in the office. After getting bad advice that has cost us 1000's of dollars we found better and less expensive subs on our own. It took a lawyer to get us out of the contract. As "consultants" they have very little legal liablity, if any. You will bear the financial burden of their mistakes. I am having to take on another job to pay for our home. Everytime there was a problem, he was more interested in keeping his subs happy than helping us have a quality home. I hope others will not have to repeat our mistake. Feel free to contact me if you have any questioins."
**
The "second job"... "consultant is a paper pusher"... "lawyer to get out of contract"... "little legal liability"... "keeping his subs happy and not me"... comments are almost exact. And all of them in the two posts? Do you know what the odds of that are? I'd be more likely to hit the lottery.
I don't know how close you looked at them, Bill... but they are written by the same person... or written from a script.
I did miss the part about the 2nd job.But I also saw the part about "used car salesman" in only one. And the other one details about the plumber and framer.Typically I would expect to see all 3 in all messages.I wonder if maybe his wife did one.
The husband alluded to needing to take on the 2nd job in both posts.
The posts were made at approximately the same time being 26 minutes apart.
The same wording being fresh enough in the mind to relay again in the second post without necessarily viewing or copying the post word for word. Thus the near but not exact wording in each post.
I'm thinking he was rambling on getting it off his chest so hopefully he could catch some sleep that night.
be tightly wound
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Maybe I am a skeptic and jaded by my experience.
But how much ya wanna bet that if I actually took some time to do a thorough search... I could come up with more of the same posts?
If I was a guessing man (never stopped me before), I would say that it is either an ex-employee/franchisee... perhaps someone who wanted to be a franchisee and was declined. My second guesstimate would be a contractor that had a job taken away from him in favor of Ubuildit. Third guess would be a sub that was looking to get even for some perceived "slight". Fourth guess would be your scenario, razz.
If it was a customer... I would expect to see a MUCH longer post... explaining every little problem in excruciating detail... and asking for help in fixing the problems. I also would expect him to have shown up in a timely fashion to see if anyone had any suggestions for correcting his problems.
As is... I still vote for troll (the genus)... now it is time to find out the species of troll. Trollius employeeus? Trollius franchiseeus? Trollius contractorious? Trollius competitorious? Or Trollius consumerious? Only way to find out is if the trollius gets in contact with Professor Christie to have a species test!
Edited 3/17/2005 12:01 pm ET by Rich from Columbus
Roar! Ya, it could very well be.
Sometimes people can act really funny in a nonhumorous kind of way. Hate when that happens.
be stephen king
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
If this is legitimate then courts have already been involved. "Don's" attorney would likely be firm in dissuading his client from pursuing his present course of libeling here don't you think? I wouldn't look to hear from him again.
I admire Christi's way of handling it an awful lot. Seriously, two thumbs up; but her attorney would probably add a word of caution as well. I hope she is able to track this one down and resolve it in everyone's best interest.
She strikes me as a savvy business woman with the capacity and wit to squash the dufus like a bug if he proves less than honorable and the wisdom to fairly compensate him if he's not.
My instincts tell me that don will probably get what's coming to him either way. :-)>
The one thing that bothers me is the 'Feel free to contact me if you have any questioins.' written at the end of the post in the other forum.
That it the only red flag in my irrate homeowner possibility.
Shoot, 'am having to take on another job to pay for our home'. now you guy's got me thinking he's laying out a paper trail 'cause he's going to try for extra 'hardship' monies in a courtcase.
be infectious, be contagious, or be sumthin's rottenin denmark
Edited 3/17/2005 1:00 pm ET by the razzman
Edited 3/17/2005 1:02 pm ET by the razzman
I sure wish I had someone besides myself to blame for the hard lessons I learned while building our home these last couple of years.
Especially for the cost over-runs... yeesh!
Who jacked up the prices on building materials about three times anyway?! Thankfully I had the foresight to anticipate my ignorance and build in a massive (percentage-wise) contingiency fund - But I never expected to use it!
Ya - that went well...
Did I already say...YEESH?!
"I sure wish I had someone besides myself to blame for the hard lessons I learned while building our home these last couple of years."
Had to laugh when I read that one. I felt the same way after the "Spec house from hell".
Nothing is so commonplace as to wish to be remarkable. [Oliver Wendell Homes]
You gettin' as jaded as me? LOL
"Be Stephan King"...killing me..stop, I got the flu..laffing makes me fart..and we know where that leads.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Sell your cleverness, Purchase Bewilderment"...Rumi
iirc, both posts were made the same day
ko ink a dink?
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
Thank you for that.
It enabled me to get a bead on this situation.
-christi~Peace
Glad I could help.
Oh alright ,.. [walkin away lookin down with thumbs in bib overall pockets]
No ya don't, you stand right there pal!
I'll bat my eyelashes, iffun I have ta!
May need ya in a little while!
I don't need no stinkin' signature!
ROAR...
Ya go battin' eyelashes... and I'll stick around too !!
I think its time you quit worrying about it. Easiar said than done .
Tim Mooney
You probably don't know yet that anyone can be anyone.
Part of prospero's charm
Heck If I know....
Edited 3/17/2005 12:17 am ET by HECK
Ya, she's just gotta do what she does as it's her job.
Any jobber got the sackMonday morning, turning backYellow lorry slow, nowhere to go
I am becoming increasingly worried that there isn't enough anxiety in my life
Pretty impressive leg work for a VP of OP's...nice job!!
especially since you found out about this issue on a forum
What's the deal with the "one sided contract" he mentioned? Could be a clue that this is a hoax???
Hoax or no, anyone that has a beef should let me know.
Our contract is in simple English. There's nothing mysterious about it (standard consulting agreement). I'm not sure that is the issue here.
Need more data.
-peace
Christi
Edited 3/17/2005 1:58 am ET by UBuildIt
Okay, here’s the scoop.
I’ve failed at every attempt to reach Don, who is a real, live past client. I’ve got all his numbers and emails so I’ll keep trying. Here’s where it stands.
Don built a Cape Cod Farmhouse on 8 acres and is currently living in the house. He is no longer under contract with us.
The franchise partner, who is the consultant, that is involved is one of our best operators and has a deep building background. He grew up in building and development and it’s in his blood. Plus, his background includes full, high-end custom with a huge builder. He’s currently serving on our Advisory Board.
The Franchise Partner offered to release the client from the contract, contingent on payment of work already done and the signing of a release. I’m not going to go much deeper that that for the sake of privacy.
This client has not complained to UBuildIt and our attorneys are not involved
In construction, complaints happen. Lawsuits are everywhere. You guys know that much. The neat thing about UBuildIt is that we rarely get complaints and have never been in litigation with a client or a Franchise Partner. It's almost unheard of in this industry.
And anyone familiar with litigation know that it really doesn’t matter much that you’re totally in the right – litigation costs a bundle.
We live by our reputation and in some regions, as much as 30% of our business comes from referrals from past clients.
When we do get complaints, they are almost never about quality, but more about clients who didn't take our advice and had to pay consequences. Sometimes, that affects the schedule and sometimes that puts them over budget. Other times, the client makes decisions that affect the price of the job without consulting us. If you upgrade to marble and solid core doors, that money has to come out somewhere else, or you go over budget. If you blow past your contingency doing that, you’ve either got to come up with the cash or hope your loan approval is high enough to cover. There’s usually hell to pay when the loan is exceeded.
The other place where we get complaints is after framing and drywall. At this stage, after all the heavy lifting is done, a guy might start thinking: "Shoot, I can paint and tile, why should I keep using this guy." Two problems there 1) they are still under contract and 2) we don't build shells because it's a sure bet they're going to get in trouble on their own, so we go step-by-step all the way to cert. of occupancy and final inspection.
SYSOP has offered to pull this thread, but I’d like it to stay. The facts are the facts and I’m happy to stand on them. Let the chips fall where they may....
Regards,
Christi
~Peace
Well good on you for following this thing as far as you have!
Sounds like I was wrong... kinda... but wrong enough. My apologies to Don for mistaking him for a disgruntled employee.
Christi, I must say... I am impressed that you would follow this as far as you have from a simple anonymous message on a bulletin board. Would have been easier to say "sorry, don't have anyone on file by the name of don who is disgruntled"... and asked the thread be pulled.
Instead, you have followed the thing and apparently know who it is and at least some of the circumstances surrounding it. Again... good on you.
I'm sorry you have a bump in the road... I can surmise on my own the Paul Harvey of it (The Rest of the Story)... been there... done that... will probably be there again some day.... although I hope not.
All in all... I would say that you have nothing at all to be upset about by this thread. Stuff happens... but you have shown a willingness to go the extra mile to resolve it... now it is up to "Don" to do his part.
If anything... this thread should be pegged as an example of how to handle things when confronted with an issue from a bulletin board post.
Good stuff. And good job!
PS... it was also good for you to keep your sense of humor along the way. Could have been easy for you to lose that also.... but ya didn't.
PSS.. Tell yer boss that Rich says you need a raise! LOL
Edited 3/17/2005 3:59 pm ET by Rich from Columbus
Thanks, Rich, but this is all just daily life for me. It's my job!
We do quality work...and if we don't, that endangers the brand and our good name. So, getting the facts is important.
Like any company, we depend on our good name. Now, there's bumps, there's mishaps and misunderstandings just like there is with any company. And, if we've got a bad operator or a bad consultant, we gotta fix that pdq.
I actually prefer stuff like this to come out......like I said....the facts are the facts.
Now, in this life, there ain't no truth, there's only perception. So, being right doesn't matter much if you've got an unhappy client.
Our clients deserve no less than stellar customer service and that's a promise of our brand. This logo rests on quality, honesty and service that kicks tail, just like yours does.
Anyway, you guys have all been great and I appreciate nobody throwing arrows while we sorted this out. Thanks for that.
-christi
~Peace
Edited 3/17/2005 6:24 pm ET by UBuildIt
Outstanding Christi, really. As a veteran of a heavily service oriented industry, with a high percentage of malcontents as clients (besides contracting) I'm very impressed. A textbook job of handling a potentially bad situation...
Ive got to run back to the job, but I need to post a shorty.
Apology to Don , but I think he should have been here and followed up after statements like he made .
Rez is more the winner than I am , but dont tell him . Hes hard enough to get along with these days. <G>
Im very proud of you Christie for the way you handled this and also that you are part of this board to make us stronger. You are an asset to say the least. Thanks.
Tim Mooney
It would probably be fair to give him a couple of days before we get too solidified in our gelling opinions. Sounds like he's burning the candle at both ends trying to pay for his house.
He may end up being a great guy who just went off in a moment of frustration (glad I've never done that) and he might even have a legitimate beef or two. He's got a great opportunity to put his beef to bed once and for all or to pull the cover off a potential pitfall for others. If he is true to his stated intentions he'll be back.
Don has never come back to follow up. Interesting...F
Interesting yes - conclusive no.
Forecast indicates cloudy skys, with a potential for raining on his parade. It will be clear and sunny/stormy - (we'll see) in a day or two.
Agreed, Golden,
Interesting - yes, conclusive - no.
I've invited Don back to the forum to hash this all out. Sent an email to all his email addresses.
-peace,
Christi~Peace
Hi Everyone,
I am real. I had no idea my frustrations would cause such a stir. They are real, not made up. Thanks to Christi for being a classy level-headed person. We are in contact.
Don
well alright don, welcome back to breaktime.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
How the Hell are you useing my Breaktime name? don
It's a weird prospero code thing that allows people to have the same nickname as someone else. I bet a dollar the usernames are unique. I could change my nick to don and post. It's freaky.
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
When I first joined... I was "Rich". I responded to one post by "Rich" (the other one)... thought that was silly... so I changed to "Rich from Columbus" since I was the new guy on the block.
Might I suggest that the new "don" adjust his profile to reflect maybe... "MeDonToo"? LOL
FWIW... your login remains the same... just not the nickname.
Well cheese, Don, you should know the answer to that.You aren't using your signin name, either.; )Your signin name is unique. No one else can use it. But you can use any nickname you want.You could call yerself Paps, or something like that...; )
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow It is easy to be friends with someone you always agree with.
I was just getting used to my other brother Darrell too.
Im not sure Im buying all this .........
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
That is my sighn in name
DonPapenburg is not your signin name ?
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow It is easy to be friends with someone you always agree with.
Sign in don
If I use the dropdown box, while you are not online, and I am in a thread where you have not already posted something... and address this post simply to don, by typing in "don"...No one gets a notice of the post.But if I use the dropdown box and address it to DonPapenburg, You will get a notice that there has been a post made to you.Your registered name is DonPapenburg. Your username is Donpapenburg. When you sign in, DonPapenburg is what should be in that box for your name. The name that you chose to be called in the forums, is don. That is the name everyone sees in the dropdown list when you are online, or have posted to the thread they are replying to. It is the name at the top of all your posts.It is the name that we choose to be called, that can be anything we want it to be, Even if someone else is already using the name.---When I registered for this forum, after the switch to Prospero, I was not allowed to register as Jeff. Because somewhere, back in the history of prospero, on some forum, lost in the ether.... someone else registered as Jeff. Now, that name is taken for all time, on ALL prospero forums, everywhere... (At least all prospero forums that remain connected to the prospero collective datafarm, as this forum has...)So, I tried Luka.No go. So I tried Luka1 Then Luka2, then Luka3, etc... right on down the line until Luka17 finally worked.Can you believe there were 16 other people before me who wanted to register with the name Luka ?Anyway, Luka17 is my registered name. Luka17 is my signin name. (And Luka17 can now never ever be used to register on any other prospero forum that stays connected to the propspero collective datafarm like this one.) Luka is the name I chose to be called on the forum. That is what shows above my posts.If I were not in this thread already, and I were not signed in to the forum at this moment, and you wanted to post something to me, so that I got notice... You would have to type in Luka17, in the To: box. Just typing in Luka will let you post. And your post will have To: Luka in the header. But I will never get the notice of the post. Because as far as prospero is concerned, you never addressed it to me unless you addressed it to my signin/user name.
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow It is easy to be friends with someone you always agree with.
Then why could I not use Don when I started with prospero ? I had to go to don . I'm tellin ya they flat out would not let me post with a capital d in my name . But what ta hel/ do I know , if the danG confuzer don't work when I punch the on button and click the breaktime icon I'm lost. I realy hate the unuserfriendly way that computers operate.
Hi, don,
There's some questions up above that really get to the core of the matter, so just look up the thread to 55605.81
I did recieve your return email today and encourage you to pursue the complaint process with us.
I'd also like to ask your permission to forgo privacy to allow me to discuss this matter freely here in the forum. I've have permission from the Franchise Owner that you worked with. What do you say to that?
We could hash this all the way out, in a civilized manner, and get to the heart of the issue.
Let me know,
Christi
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
well.. he did come back and read the last post addressed to him...
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=55605.81
maybe he'll come back and share..
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
There really is only two kinds of Builders in todays world...
Thoses Who have been Sued!
And Thoses Who are going to Be Sued!
Three! the builder that has to sue when customers won't pay.
"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
Edited 3/19/2005 4:54 pm ET by Bill
I am admiring the way you are handling this, Christi.
Way to go.
Heck If I know....
Christi ... good show on your part.
What's the diff between a franchise partner and a consultant?
To All ... why are we apologizing to the original Don? He came in with a half-story that was intended to stirup trouble, then left and won't come back to defend his allegations.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Franchise Partner owns the business. Now, he may service the clients on site himself, or he may hire construction guys with custom gc background to do the site work. There's 23-25 on site visits for us during construction of a regular home. There's 5-7 planning meetings in the office, which could be done by the owner, a consultant, a planner, or an estimator. One Franchise Partner may employ 6-8 consultants, plus estimators, office managers, admins, etc. Consultants can be licensed GC's or the Franchise Partner can be, as well. Clear as mud?
Point being, just because you own the business doesn't mean you do all the jobs that get done. In a really small office, the owner is a hard-core construction guy and does the site work & estimating himself. Probably with the help of an admin/office type.
There's all kinds of different business models.
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
Edited 3/17/2005 11:10 pm ET by UBuildIt
Will you and Luka or Luka and you please stop this assinine use of each others name.
I'm done with this stupid thread!
Doug
Done and done, Doug.: )The names should be back to normal now. All 20 minute waiting periods being finished...
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow It is easy to be friends with someone you always agree with.
Are you sure??????
Last time I checked I was still me and you were still him and him was still you and me was still I and him was still me and you were still I and ........
dang now I'm my own grand pa!!!!!!"Sir, if you were my husband I would poison your tea"
"Madam, if I were your husband I would drink it." Sir Winston Churchhill
I know what you mean . Its like someone takes you away from a good book and you keep waiting to finish the book but cant cause you dont have your hands on it .
Hopefully we will get to back to our story here.
Edited 3/17/2005 1:56 am ET by UBuildIt
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
just killin' time 'til Don, excuse me, don shows up. What's wrong with that?
Nuttin, thats what Im tralkin about . Id like to hear from don too. I think the whole baord would like to hear from him.
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I'd love to read the ending to you all out loud, but I have to get my permit to speak in public.
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
What's with the TIMMOONEY52, Ubildit, and Mike(bite me)Smith all wrapped up in one post?Is this a prospero ####can we say that?) or something intentional on the poster's part, whomever you are?Just curious and confused.Edit added: the woed I used was s n a f u I cant believe it actually got censored. Sheesh. John Svenson, builder, remodeler, NE Ohio
Edited 3/18/2005 1:29 pm ET by Svenny
Im supprized the regulars didnt jump to answer you.
Its kind of a fad to use someones elses signature. I havent been doing it until this thread and the confusion. Just for spice I copied and pasted Christies edit and that put them both in there.
compliments to Jocobe
Probably did'nt realize that there would be a crowd of thousands watching!
Could get real Ulgy!
More on this....
As with most Franchise operations, the business owner needs to have business owner skills. Running a business, profitability, p&l, etc or hire that out. Most franchises actually require that the franchise partner NOT have in industry experience, so that they are a 'fresh slate' and can be trained in the ways of the system. So, for instance, if you have food service experience, you won't be awarded a mcdonald's store.
So that's where the 'no construction experience required' comes from. Our very most successful offices are a 50/50 split, with half coming from big corporate and have coming from a lifetime of custom building.
It bothers some folks when we say that, but it's because they are mixing up who "OWNS" the business and who does the "WORK".
In the same vein, you don't have to be a master chef to open and run a successful restaraunt. You might hire a pastry chef, and soux chef and a head chef. Much like our offices would hire a construction expert with a remodeling background, a GC with a high-end background or a builder with full-custom experience.
-christi
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
Ok Don - the other side has laid all their cards on the table - or so it would seem. Your turn to walk us through your hand.
"The "consultant" was much more interested in pleasing his subs than helping us build a good home." Can you offer us an example?
"At one point the garage wall would move 1-2 inches when pushed on, this is after he and his framer tried to solve the problem" What was the problem? Was this standing and braced framing or a finished wall? Pushed on how; with a dozer or a little finger? Does it still move, or did it still move when the contractor said he was finished?
"Their plumbers took 6 weeks to do a 2 week job" What makes you say it was a two week job? Did your neighbor, who knows a guy that used to be friends with a plumber tell you it was a two week job or did the plumber you hired tell you it was a two week job? What did the schedule say? Were there any changes in the scope of the project that affected the plumbers? Was there anyone, or anything in the plumbers way when they were initially scheduled? Did they ever have to change their schedule to accommodate you?
"their framers could not put the windows in right and tried to blame the manufacturer." Who told you what was right? Are you sure it was the only right way to do it? Were these standard windows or something special?
For the record, I had a hard time putting my windows in too. It turned out to be a combination of the supplier, the manufacturer, and ultimately me making inacurate assumptions about industry standards. I thought all high end vinyl windows came with nailing flanges already installed - They don't. I also thought all high end window suppliers knew what they were doing - They don't.
"It took a lawyer to get us out of the one-sided contract." Does this mean that you asked a lawyer buddy over a drink at a cocktail party how to get some results; that you threatened to sue and then got some results; that you had a lawyer write a letter or make a call for you; or that you filed an actual law suit?
As "consultants" they have very little liability (if any) for their bad advice. I think an outline of some of their "bad advice," and the truth about whether you followed it to a tee, is in order, don't you?
I am now getting a 2nd job to pay for their mistakes. Lets be honest, is the second job entirely because of the "poor advice" you got from them in the early stages of this project, before you went out on your own to take care of it yourself? Not to pry but... well, I built more house than I could afford if you want to know the truth. I thought I could build more house for a lot less than the going rate for residential construction. I was right, but nowhere near as right as I thought I was. :-)>
Is it possible that you might have been just a little less right than you thought too? There's never enough time to get to all that stuff you were going to save a buck on and do yourself is there? Especially when the plumbers keep moving all your tools out of their way and you can't remember where you left that Fine Home Building printout showing you the easy way to do it.
We found better subs at lower prices. Now that is a real trick! Have you ever thought about getting into construction consulting? Sounds like you've got the skills and you've seen how profitable it is for them, no more than they do and all.
Our "consultant's" own subs tell us they never saw him work outside the office. Now that is a ringing endorsement for an effective consultant if I've ever heard one. Christi may want to put that quote on her home page.
I hope others can avoid the problems we had! Me too don, me too. I hope you'll take the time to help them out with a few answers.
Let's try this...
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow
It is easy to be friends with someone you always agree with.
My name has now changed to UBuildIt on all of my posts, everywhere.
When I change my name back to Luka, it will change back to Luka on all of my posts, everywhere.
It will not stay UBuildIt on these two posts.
Does that explain what happened ?
: )
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow
It is easy to be friends with someone you always agree with.
Ok, since I see that you have read both previous posts, I'll change my name back to Luka.
The name will change back to Luka on those two previous posts, as well. And all my posts, everywhere...
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow
It is easy to be friends with someone you always agree with.
Hmmmm
Interesting.
Try changing your name to Luka, and see if you show up as Luka.
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow
It is easy to be friends with someone you always agree with.
ROFLOL
!!!
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow
It is easy to be friends with someone you always agree with.
Hey !! I'll bet I know what happened...
That 20 minute delay thing.
Sometimes it takes up to twenty minutes for a change to take effect.
I wonder if I'll now be UBuildIT to everyone else for the duration of the time that I kept that nickname. Then it'll change back.
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow
It is easy to be friends with someone you always agree with.
I have just one question here: Who's on first?
They all think they're at the halloween masqurade ball.In the middle of a potentially serious thread, no less...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
??????????????
Heck If I know....
For a minute there I was you, and you were you, but I was you, and you were me, and you and I was I and you an.... Awwww heck. where wuz I ???
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow
It is easy to be friends with someone you always agree with.
to me, I'm his manager...
;)
not dollars... dog bones...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
It's either a prospero goober or timmooney52 was logged in as me when he edited his post to Doug@es, which is highly unlikely.
hehehe
Edited 3/17/2005 1:56 am ET by UBuildIt
Edited 3/17/2005 1:56 am ET by UBuildIt
Edited 3/17/2005 1:56 am ET by UBuildIt
Edited 3/17/2005 1:56 am ET by UBuildIt
Edited 3/18/2005 8:21 pm ET by TIMMOONEY52
pflbbbbbbbbbbbbbbt!
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
So you got any more for us?
compliments to Jocobe
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Drink Rum
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Drink Rum
nahuh
Bourbon and coke
compliments to Jocobe
Tim...
What's in the red X'd box???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
I havent looked.
be supprised
compliments to Jocobe
So, after all of this you are going to just leave us hanging and swinging in the breeze without a summary of the events of the last few days?
be kind
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I thought I'd give don a few days to come back and do this straight. If he doesn't show, despite my best attempts and an honorable amount of time, I'll lay out the basic facts, as I know them.
How long is long enough?
-christi
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
now would work.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
It's only been two days since he was here. Now, If go spoutin' off, somebody will accuse me to being unfair.
I'm a tough spot, no?
-chrissti
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
Monday evening would be appropiate.
That gives the weekend and a normal weekday.
He did bother to check in and post a reply which shows a value.
He also might be gunshy cause he knows there are pirana circling in the waters.
And a deer in the road will see the blinding headlights and freeze immobile.
If I were him I might be tempted to shine it on lest the chance of getting sucker punched.
be just holding a banner for the novices of the world trying to cover their own backsides in an area they know little if nothing about.
Don reads down the list of new postings and leans back in his chair, no sounds in the room except the light creak of the chair.
As his eyes gaze at the wall he ponders the situation, debating if he will post a reply.
I'd like to see him come back to back hmself up - the way anyone will do if they have a basis for the allegations they are wiling to make publicly.I'm realy curious how I could get a wall to wobble one to two inches after doing something to fix it.I'd like to know about the windows, there area lot of different ways. It seems simple enough to say how they were installed and whathe manufacturer was.and what specific mistakes it was that cost him enough money that he has to work this second job - but a second job could be the reason why he is slow responding...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
shall Gunner and I set up the fire side chat room???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Since he started with spouting off, three days is more than fair, IMO. he can always respond again after you lay it oout
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Sounds fair. Of course, the problem for me is that a kazillion lurkers saw the top post of his and haven't read the whole thread, so we got hurt anyway. Nothin' much I can do about that, though.
You guys have all been great through all of this.
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
"... a kazillion lurkers saw the top post of his and haven't read the whole thread, so we got hurt anyway."
I don't see it that way. A lot of people have also been impressed with how you've handled the situation. You've changed many opinions about Ubuildit.
Including mine.
I clean house every other day. Today is the other day.
get Gunner to tell his story...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
"get Gunner to tell his story..."
I gots no idear what you're talkin' about.
The Beatles said All You Need Is Love and then they broke up.
now back to our previously scheduled program.
I still have not heard from Don, so here’s the recap:<!----><!---->
<!---->
The house started excavation in mid July and had foundation in August. There was a small weather delay prior to foundation. It was a fairly straight-forward two-story farmhouse style on 8 acres. The client all-along planned to do all the finishes himself.<!---->
<!---->
All went well until the home was under roof. <!---->
<!---->
As best I can tell, there was an incident or two where the UBuildIt consultant gave advice and the advice wasn’t followed resulting in difficulties. An example is the front porch. The client wanted to save money on the foundation of the porch and wanted alternatives to a structural slab. UBuildIt recommended structural fill instead and laid out all the pros and cons. This was planned into the specs and budget. The flatwork contractor said it was possible to just fill it with dirt and pour. So he did. Whether or not that was the best decision for the quality of the home is debatable. <!---->
<!---->
It seems that this kind of thing reduced the client’s faith in the advice he was getting. So he stopped communicating with us or asking for advise from the consultant.<!---->
<!---->
UBuildIt consultants are usually in touch with clients once or twice a week, if there are no spectacular issues (in which case it could be every day) and when the client stopped returning calls and emails, the consultant began to get the idea that something was amiss. In the end there were numerous attempts to contact the client by phone and by email.<!---->
<!---->
There were other issues along the way. <!---->
<!---->
The client did do his own brick-work, attempted his electrical (failed electrical inspection), did his siding with the help of a friend, cut in his own driveway, is installing his own hardwood flooring, painting everything, and doing all the finish carpentry.<!---->
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The largest issue concerning this job seems to have been the framing. The plans, specs, and budged called for a regular garage with a garage door. There seems to have been a significant change in the trusses. UBuildIt advises the client to run all decisions by the consultant, so that the job stays in budget and on time. This did not occur. The first that anyone know of this change is when cathedral trusses showed up on site. So the garage had been changed from a one story with a ceiling and a regular garage door to a 2 story cathedral with no structural changes. The framer had the first floor wall built for the garage already, when the trusses showed up. He tied them into the outer wall of the garage as best he could, per the client. Without steel reinforcement, or any reinforcement, the wall wasn’t rigid enough. At that point, UBuildIt’s advice was to have the framer back. The framer tried to shore up the walls without bracing per the clients request. The UBuildIt consultant advised structural steel, but client did not want to spend the money. The client opposed the addition of crossbraces so as not to impede the ceiling, which was destined for a basketball hoop. In the end, diagonal braces were added as a secondary solution. <!---->
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That left the garage door to deal with and changes had to be made to accommodate hanging a garage door in a 2 story space.<!---->
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It should also be noted that the client also had the framing carpenter modify some upstairs bedroom trusses to accommodate a window that was ordered different from the original design without consultation, once again creating problems. Consultant noticed the problem at a site visit and asked if they had contacted the truss manufacturer for engineered approval of the changes. They had not. UBuildIt consulted them on what needed to be done to successfully pass framing inspection. The consultant then went over and above and took digital photos of the modification, sent them to the truss manufacturer, coordinated the drawings, hand delivered the engineered documents to the client, and then contacted the framer for the client to have him come back and modify the trusses per the engineered drawing. <!---->
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On the plumbing, the consultant was not notified that there was an issue, therefore had no opportunity to fix it. He has no insight into what the issue was. If anyone is really interested, I can call the plumber and see if he had all the parts on site or exactly what the delay was.<!---->
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On the windows, the original quote had the manufacturer installing the windows, thereby taking responsibility for the install. The client chose a cheaper solution – a framer. The consultant discovered some windows that were improperly installed (per the manuf. Directions) and advised that the windows should be installed properly. Client called framer back out to reinstall and the client still wasn’t happy. The client never scheduled another site visit to review the re-installation and didn’t communicate they still had window issues until after they hired someone else to come out. The client chose to have the manufacturer send an installer out (with a significant fee). There was never any attempt to blame the manufacturer.<!---->
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The loan was put into risk/management because the bills weren’t getting paid. The consultant placed an urgent call to the client alerting him that he wouldn’t be getting any more draws from the loan. At that point, the client finally did return the consultant’s call. It was at this point that the client expressed dissatisfaction with UBuildIt for the service he received.<!---->
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The draws for UBuildIt projects coincide with the need to spend the money on trades/materials, and while I don’t know why bills weren’t getting paid, usually when it happens with us is because the specs have changed significantly on amenities and finishes and the job is over budget. It is the job of the UBuildIt consultant to give clients all the information they need to make informed decisions, so for example, we would explain (if we were involved) that while it is in fact possible to upgrade from formica to granite, that there is a cost considered. The client would have to decide to blow the budget, take quality out elsewhere or to not make the change. <!---->
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The consultant ended up having to put a lien on for lack of payment.<!---->
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An arrangement was made that allowed payment for work already done in return for help getting the loan situation fixed (for the last draw) and getting the lien released. <!---->
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The client signed a release with UBuildIt, and we cancelled his consulting agreement with us. When he did this, he under advisement of his attorney.<!---->
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As for the assertion that “it took a lawyer to get out the contract”, we offered dissolution of the contract in return for payment of work already done. Each page of the UBuildIt contract is literally read out loud to the clients and they initial every page before they sign. The client had plenty of time to look over the agreement and get advice before they signed.<!---->
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As for the “2nd job” to pay for UBuildIt’s mistakes, I would hope that an attorney would recommend withholding payment and advise against the signing of a release, if there is indeed culpability. <!---->
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The client knew he was going in on a tight budget to begin with---hence his pre-planning to do the finishes himself. As far as being over budget, there apparently was some significant purchases outside the scope of the plans and specifications.<!---->
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Okay, that’s the wrap. I’ve recounted as best I could, but keep in mind this is 2nd hand, so I hope I have all the tiny details right. If you've made it this far, I applaud you.
I'm exhausted! I think I'll send the consultant a renewal to his FH subscription -- he's been a jewel to spend so much time laying this all out for me.
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Christi<!---->
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Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
ping
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
Ping and pongMy respect for Ubuildit grows. If even half what you have said is true, you don't need all the tiny details. The aroma of a rotten carcass is what this customer has spread all over himself, like a dog immersing himself to cover his own scent for the hunt. He tried to throw offal on you and ended up spilling the slime on himself.Those of us who are professional in out practice recognize the breed ahead of time and stay out of such arrangements. Occasionally we miss the signals ahead of time and see them soon into the arrangement when we take control legally and ethicaly. There are various stages along the way some of us would have said, "Sorry Bud, but if you insist on doing this, you are on your own" Certainly the framing carpenter should have done so and brought in the ubuild to back him up. Each of the unapproved, unplanned structural changes are alert points. Other red flags are where the customer kept loking for cheaper or less expensive ways. I get curious about how he came by the knowledge that the framer could install the windows for less money than the manufacturer could. Did he ask the framer for a price to install, or did the framer offer tio install with the statemnet, "I bet I could put those windows in for less money.." I think I know the answer from the track rtecord and MO the HO follows in the process . I even invited him to make a simple statement of how the windows did get installed and he chooses not to repsond.One of his allegations is that ubuild cost him money. He seems to have got some part of that impression from the excavator who recommended that he backfill with plain old dirt instead of structural fill as recommended by ubuildit. I'll go on record to say that I would not be using that dirt man on my jobs. He doesn't know a peso from a pound when it comes to building on the ground.and my final great big laugh on this whiole story is the wimpy wobbling wall. I can't say how mucgh I tried to imagine how it would be possible to MAKE a wall do that. It even crossed my mind that I could build a 16' high wall by stacking two walls on top of each other and forget to put the floor in, but I concluded, "Naw, nobody could be THAT stupid!" Apparantly he was that stupid and then compounded his stupidity by criticising, in public forum, the company who advised against doing so, as though they were the ones who recommended it. Again, the framer should never have conceded to allow himself to be pushed into that corner, but the ultimate responsibility lays on the shoulders of the HO who ignored good advise and demanded it. This laugh tops my day. thanks for the follow up.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
ping
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
ping
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
Sorry but somebody has to play the Devils Advocate,
Whats up with the ping? is that a brand of Golf Club?
When it comes to litigation I hope you have more then what is stated in # 176 or your going to get your lunch handed to you!
My Red light would be blinking if the foundation was changed. I would have pulled the plug when the framing was changed from the plans.
Looks like the client was given to much Rope & nobody was willing to put their foot down. Work keeps going & the problems get covered up & grows. Bigger problems just cost more to fix. I can't remember the last time the courts took side with Mr. Builder & company!
Something went out of control?
But then again I was on the lossing side of a courtroom battle, thats where I got my education. We did everthing to the standards & still the loss was large.
Hope in the big picture it all works out!
The ping is for people who had specificially asked about this thread, so they would know I'd finally posted.
Are you familiar with what we do? There really is no 'pull the plug' with a consulting arrangement.
There won't be litigation on this one. We've never been sued by a client, but there will be a first time. It's just not yet....
Thanks,
-c
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
the ping is the same as a bump..
nice style...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
It's like the internet equivalent of "HEY YOU!" ;)
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
caught that...
here it seems to be a "bump" (WTB rough road roots)
nice job on the follow up... good to see somebody on the ball...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
do U "prequalify" the customer before they can sign up with U?
I'd see this as a fairly common problem ... customers getting in over their heads ...
due to the very nature of the "we'll help ya save some money" line of business.
Usually people are trying to save .. because it isn't ther ein the first place.
I know that giving them a budget and plan helps ... but most "savers" can't be satisfied staying within their means.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Ya, you betcha. Of course we prequalify...there's all that loan stuff too.
We endeavor to not take clients that have unrealistic ideas about what they can afford or what they build for a certain price. Once in a while, one slips by us.
I don't really view this particular situation as a 'savings' issue as much as 'controlling the process' issue. Clients running amuck is something we like to avoid like the plague...for obvious reasons.
I couldn't agree more on positioning on price. It can be very dangerous for a brand, unless you are a commodity product that needs to position on price.
We've been moving away from pretty much any mention of savings at all (I've been here two years.) It's hard to teach old dogs new tricks, so some of our older offices hate me. Can you imagine that? ;)
-Christi
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
Christi,
Help me out here if you would.
I've been reading this thread, and I think one other thread, that involve difficulties h/o's are having or have had with UBUILDIT. Mostly from the back row.
Correct me if I don't have the name of the company correct.
Would you clarify for me what the role of the "consultant" is?
I would think that by hiring UBUILDIT, the difficulties that these people encountered would not have happened if someone was properly overlooking the project.
So, I guess that I am assuming that this is what the "consultant" is responsible for.
In Don's case it appears as though UBUILDIT was carrying a construction loan, yet it seems apparent that there was a definate lack of oversight on the project.
I'd like to know what the role is specifically that UBUILDIT plays in this type of project.
Thanks,
Eric
I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
Edited 3/22/2005 6:25 pm ET by Eric Paulson
Consultants cannot make you take their advice. Don't care what field that's in.
Eric,
Cloud is right. 'bout the only time we have complaints is when clients don't do what we advise.
You also have to keep in mind that we have done thousands and thousands of home (inching up to 1/3 billion in project value) and the vast majority of clients are pleased as punch.
The role of any consultant is to advise, so the client can make informed decisions. When clients make changes to the specifications that were in the budget or direct the trades to do additional work that wasn't in the scope, it can cause troubles.
UBuildIt does not offer financing or carry loans. We can point clients to any number of 'owner-builder friendly' mortgage companies that are used to working with our clients, though.
Our role is to shepherd the process along, not to order materials, hire labor, or make decisions on the site.
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
When clients make changes to the specifications that were in the budget or direct the trades to do additional work that wasn't in the scope, it can cause troubles.
I don't mean to be adversarial, but the situation WILL cause trouble.
It greater than potential.
To me, a client not taking my consulting advice is now on his own, the contract is cancelled, null and void.
If you don't have a clause in your contract to stipulate this then you will only find yourself sliding down this slope again in the future.
The role of any consultant is to advise, so the client can make informed decisions.
So, to answer my question directly, this is what a UBUIlD consultant does?
I get the feeling that UBUILD is marketed as a shield between the h/o and "those God awful, crooked contractors"
I'm still not sure what the role of this consultant is.
Pardon me if I seem argumentive. I have been accused of being such in the past when I feel as though my inquiries are not be directly addressed. (just ask Mike Smith!)
Thanks Christi!
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
Eric,
You are being argumentative, but that's okay....come ahead! ;)
<<<<When clients make changes to the specifications that were in the budget or direct the trades to do additional work that wasn't in the scope, it can cause troubles. I don't mean to be adversarial, but the situation WILL cause trouble.>>>>
It can cause trouble. Often times we are able to say, hey, that decision you just made without talking to us is going to cost you time and money. The client straightens up and we don't have any more issues.
In Don's case, you will note that the result of the client refusing to take good advice was that we cancelled the contract and severed the relationship.
<<<To me, a client not taking my consulting advice is now on his own, the contract is cancelled, null and void. If you don't have a clause in your contract to stipulate this then you will only find yourself sliding down this slope again in the future.>>>
Thanks for the input. Forcing clients to take our advice puts us in the driver's seat and our client should be. That's the fine art of consulting.
<<The role of any consultant is to advise, so the client can make informed decisions. So, to answer my question directly, this is what a UBUIlD consultant does?>>
Not sure how I'm not answering your question, but here's a recap of the role of a UBuildiT consultant. The consultant has a stable of trusted subs and vendors that are accustomed to the way the process work and who deliver superior quality at reasonable prices. The role of the consultant is to guide the client through land acquisition, plan development, specifications, vendor/labor choices, etc. They are with the client from start to finish and there 5-7 planning meetings in the office prior to the start of construction and 23-25 on site visits. At each phase of construction the client and consultant go through all the decisions and steps that have to me for the next phase of construction. We've got checklists galore for the client. Along the way, the consultant offers advice, based on their experience building homes in the marketplace. It might sound like this: "Well, Mr. Jones, you can upgrade to Corian, but we need to help you make some decisions about that." The consultant would then go through the pros and cons of making such a decision and then discuss pricing and how it would affect the budget. As you know, sometimes the budget increasing doesn't bother the client. Other times, they might remove quality or amenities in other places, to afford the upgrade. Or, they might realize they need not make that choice. All along, we are there to help inform them of their choices and to let them know what impact that choice would have on the project, the budget, the quality and the schedule.
Clients order materials and manage subs directly. If they aren't getting good response, we are there to apply pressure.
We go on site, always with the client. We might teach them how to identify a bowed stud, we might point out that the sub needs to address so and so quality issue or that there was something forgotten in a particular trade.
<<<I get the feeling that UBUILD is marketed as a shield between the h/o and "those God awful, crooked contractors">>
Where did ya get that idea?
Of course not. Many of our clients are really not suited to be owner builders, so we happily refer them to contractors. An owner builder wouldn't typically be interested in using a GC anyway. GC's are not mentioned in our marketing at all, nor in our sales presentation. There's not much of a comparison anyway........it's apples to oranges.
Besides, I suppose they are out there, but I personally don't know any "god awful, crooked contractors". Most of our consultants are or were builders and many are licenced. "Round here, we kind like contractors.
Our founder and COO are both long-time contractors, so it runs in our blood.
And because that last crack was offensive, here...........lemme smack ya upside the head! ;) Lean forward now.....just a little more......my arms are short.........
THWACK!
<<I'm still not sure what the role of this consultant is.>>
Any other questions, just let me know.
<<<Pardon me if I seem argumentive. I have been accused of being such in the past when I feel as though my inquiries are not be directly addressed. (just ask Mike Smith!)>>>
Now, I'm curious...what'd'da do to Mike?
-christi
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
Edited 3/22/2005 7:20 pm ET by UBuildIt
Christi,
So UBUILDIT is there to steer the car if the owner wishes to blow their nose or tune the radio, but if the car rolls down in a ditch, there is no service to be offered.
If the owner is getting a screwing from a sub, your consultant will let him know as much, but he is still basically on his own.
I don't get why the h/o would need someone to pick a countertop material, but if he finds himself in trouble with a sub, he's out of luck.
Maybe I'm just missing the point, but I don't understand the value of the service your company provides.
I pardoned myself for being argumentive, you might try doing the same for your defensiveness.
I'm just trying to gather the facts.
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
Eric:
<<If the owner is getting a screwing from a sub, your consultant will let him know as much, but he is still basically on his own.>>
It's extremely rare for our clients to "get a screwing" from a sub. We have a regular stable of subs that work with each office and the subs like working with UBuildIt for a myriad of reasons, so of course, they want to keep the work coming. If there is controversy with a sub over scheduling, pricing, quality, etc, the consultant will often have a meeting with the sub and the client to hash it all out.
Of course, UBuildIt offices have very little control over or clout with subs that they don't work with. So if a client brings subs with them or chooses subs that haven't been recommended, the best we can do is let the client know what kind of service they should expect and help keep on the lookout for issues.
<<I don't get why the h/o would need someone to pick a countertop material, but if he finds himself in trouble with a sub, he's out of luck.>>
Again, client's aren't 'out of luck', but you have to keep in mind that it is the client's job to manage the subs. They hire them, they do the buying, they pay the bills, they interface directly with them. The client has a level of responsibility in building their own house........if they didn't want that, they would buy a pre-owned used home, a spec home, a production home or use a builder.
<<Maybe I'm just missing the point, but I don't understand the value of the service your company provides.>>
That's okay, our clients do. Our clients have control of the jobs, they make the decisions, they know the ins and outs of their home. For owner builders, that is very gratifying and satisfying. Being actively involved is something they like. In exchange for their effort, they get exactly the quality they want, get to be involved in every decision and get a hefty chunk of equity at the end.
<<I pardoned myself for being argumentive, you might try doing the same for your defensiveness.>>
Not trying to be defensive, humble apologies if you took it that way.
So, an aside, if you know you're being argumentative and that has cause you troubles in the past, why do it? Ya know, that ole' Dr. Phil question........."How's that workin' for ya?".
I've been 100% forthright. UBuildIt has been basically laid bare here (at my choice) and I have spend a great deal of time and effort answering questions, so there's no reason to belive that your questions would be dealt with any differently.
<<<I'm just trying to gather the facts.>>
Cool.
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
Thanks Christi,
I think I understand better no how UBUILDIT functions.
Until I get the answer I need to satisfy my inquiry I will continue to ask questions.
In forums such as this, it is very common for a responder to be 'selective' as to what they wish to answer. That's fine, but if you have not quenched my need for the knowledge that I seek, I will continue to ask questions until I am satisfied.
I only used the word argumentive because I know that is a label that I have ocassionaly been given. I'm not stupid, in fact quite the opposite is true, so much that I desire to know all there is to know about what it is I am inquiring about to be satisfied.
Call it argumentive if you wish. I call it a desire to gain knowledge and experience. And so you know, I will expend what ever I need to, in order to drive home a point with someone else who wishes to be educated.
Thanks for your time and your sincere efforts to respond to me.
Now I go tell Mike to bite me!
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
Eric,I have a client who has a passion to build his own house in your neck of the woods. Always wanted to do it, and has the time and has _some_ of the skills, but not the prior contracting experience. Worried that he doesn't know enough to know if a sub is taking advantage of him or not, or if a contract is good or bad, or if the workmanship on the hvac is up to snuff...but he's capable on framing and electrical. I don't have the time to travel up there to guide him and offer the necessary consultations and reviews, but he's smart enough to know that he can do 75%, but not 100% by himself. Soooooo, would you be willing to be his sounding board? If he needs, could you run by and check out the work he's unsure of? Can you introduce him to your subs and make sure the budgets match expectations? If he hits a snag, can you help identify his alternatives?Cool, glad you can help, be/c I know that you're qualified. Whatchya gonna charge him, be/c we certainly wouldn't expect you to do this for free?ps. Christi's not being defensive in anything I read...
Edited 3/22/2005 8:28 pm ET by Cloud Hidden
see what i mean, christi.. he IS argumentativeMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
See, and I thought it was jest my lucky day! ;)
That's okay.....people get passionate......
-c
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
"Cloud is right. 'bout the only time we have complaints is when clients don't do what we advise."
You spoke of the porch slab not being important . Under the codes its structural concrete because the porch rests on them and holds up a roof just like the main slab or footings. There is no diference .
What it depends on is the inspector . Have you ever been to a live basket ball game ? The referee makes a call and half the stands go BOO. The coaches are sometimes biting their butts too as the ref is running up and down the floor. When they have had enough they turn and point the T signal . Two of those and the coach walks off the floor with free shots from the opposing team. An official can give shots to the other team and make the call on the crowd or part of . Depends on the officials.
An official can help more if hes asked to do so.
When its a consultant I realize that to do his best he needs his own subs and make calls wityh them so they understand what side their bread is buttered on. On a strange sub that has no loyalty, it smells like trouble . If a sub would side with a client he could really screw things up. Sounds like to me a consultant has a difficult job of over seeing unlike a GC or super.
Timothy
Hey, Tim,
<<<You spoke of the porch slab not being important .>>>>
No, no, nooooooooooh! We advised a structural slab. The client didn't want to do that, so we came down to structural fill. We clearly think that foundation work is important.
The question was: why did the porch pass inspection? It did pass, oddly enough, because in this locale, porches aren't included in what you would consider a 'regular slab inspection'. It's an oddity of that locale. There is no slab inspection for porches and garages in that city…..In the slab inspections they are mostly concerned with making sure there is a vapor barrier in the basement slab and that the underground plumbing has been passed by the health department inspector.
<<Under the codes its structural concrete because the porch rests on them and holds up a roof just like the main slab or footings. There is no diference . >>
We don't disagree.
<<<What it depends on is the inspector . >>
Totally agreed.
<<When its a consultant I realize that to do his best he needs his own subs and make calls wityh them so they understand what side their bread is buttered on.>>
We don't normally have a stitch of trouble out of our subs. It's hard to become a UBuildIt sub and once aligned with an office, most are really keen to keep the business up. But, we have a very stringent rule for the "a-team" in the stable of subs.....do right or ship out. That means good work, reliable performance, reasonable pricing (don't have to be cheapest, just a good value) and understand that sometimes that the best thing to do when approached by a client for a change order is to say "have you talked to the consultant about that? I'd be happy to do that, but I'd feel more comfortable if Bob knows...)
<<On a strange sub that has no loyalty, it smells like trouble .>>
Agreed.
<<If a sub would side with a client he could really screw things up.>>
Agreed. In the case of this porch, it sounds like the client was hellbent on not using structural fill (costs) and cast about until he finally found someone that said """"Wayelllllllll, I 'spose you could use dirt". I wasn't there, can't know the nuance of of the conversation. What I do know is that this sub has built a bunch of houses with us, does excellent work, and we've never had a stitch of trouble. He does good work, he's reliable and honorable and he likes working with UBuildIt.
<<<Sounds like to me a consultant has a difficult job of over seeing unlike a GC or super. >>
The roles are different. Not particularly harder or easier. Just different. Our UbuildIt consultants DO have to learn NOT to act like a GC. But we teach all that in training and they have lots of support to learn "how to be a consultant"
Sorry for the point by point, just didn't want to miss anything.
-christi
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
Hope this is not to much to ask , (if so thats ok) but in Dons case what % of the total project cost that was charged by Ubuildit for the service?
Why did it take so long for the plumbers to do the plumbing rough? We give our plumbers 5 working days to do a five-plex including gas line. About 9000 sq. ft. Or was this the HO just stretching the truth?
On the porch we always match the foundation of the building with the porch, no slabs, no honchs, & no special fill. Can't tell you how many thousands of dollars have been spent in the past by sinking slabs/porchs.
Wouldn't it been smart for the consulant to do a walk-thru prior to such a milestone such as the rough inspection?
On the subject of sub contractors, must be nice to have problem free subs, . Did the homeowner pull the permit, & is this the same person that did the electrical work?
Not trying to be rude, just giving info on problems we have had in the past!
No trouble.
<<<<Hope this is not to much to ask , (if so thats ok) but in Dons case what % of the total project cost that was charged by Ubuildit for the service?>>>
I haven't pulled the contract, but our fees vary from 6% to 12% of the wholesale cost of the home. We help the homeowner get deep discounts on products and solid pricing on labor. Most of our clients end up with 15-25% or so in equity. It can go higher, but in those jobs, the owner builder does serious shopping and does some work on their own.
<<Why did it take so long for the plumbers to do the plumbing rough? >>
Don't know the specifics of the plumber, but I can put a call out to him if you guys are interested. The consultant was not notified that there was any issue with the plumber.
<<<On the porch we always match the foundation of the building with the porch, no slabs, no honchs, & no special fill.>>>
We spec that as well.
<<<Can't tell you how many thousands of dollars have been spent in the past by sinking slabs/porchs.>>
Not an issue.
<<Wouldn't it been smart for the consulant to do a walk-thru prior to such a milestone such as the rough inspection?>>
That is the usual procedure. We think it's smart, too.
<<On the subject of sub contractors, must be nice to have problem free subs, . Did the homeowner pull the permit, & is this the same person that did the electrical work?>>
Homeowner always pulls permits. Homeowner did the electrical himself. Under normal circumstances, we would have been on-site in time to point out issues prior to inspection. Clearly, this situation wasn't normal.
<<Not trying to be rude, just giving info on problems we have had in the past!>>
No worries, mate!
-c
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
Thanks, My scales of Justice is slowly shifting your way!
"We help the homeowner get deep discounts on products"
christi, how deep is deep? Comparing to a small time custom builder? Comparing to the usual couple percent to 10 percent disc I can rcv from a lumber yard. Comparing to the 25 percent on plumbing electrical I can rcv from my suppliers.
I realize a development bldr gets better pricing due to the volume. I have a 150/175k or so gross business and don't get what I would call deep discounts. Just trying to get a feel for what you mean in the promotion.
thanks.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
I'm always suspicious of anyone who promises "deep discounts". Speaking from the perspective of a truss supplier, there just isn't that much of a margin to play with. Just to give you an idea:The highest price is to a one-time customer. Contractors get about a 2 or 3% discount. Large retail lumber dealers that buy hundreds of thousands of dollars (If not millions) every year get 8-9%Tract housing bids are always negotiated,a nd I'm generally not a part of that process. But it doesn't really apply to this situation anyway.
No matter what accomplishments you make, somebody helps you. [Wilma Rudolph]
Yes Ron, your figures are what I've found true. Need a bit of insight into the ubuildit situation. If the customer is paying the supplier, can't imagine them getting any better deal than the Homowner/GC that is going to build that one house. They would get the same % as me, but I know my service would be better due to the overall volume. Christi has been busy, hope she gets to this specific pc. of the puzzle.
If they use for instance, list price for kit. cabs., nobody ever pays anywhere close to list. Cripes, a one time cheapskate walks into a cab supplier and they get 50% off..........they think.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
You gotta remember, our clients are owner builders, so the pricing we negotiate is better than they can get on their own.
You know how it works, there's more room in some trades. Trusses are tight. There's local pricing, regional pricing, and national pricing. One office working with one lumber company (for instance) is the volume of a small-medium builder and gets around builder pricing for his clients most of the time.
When you toss in national volume with a big, national vendor, there's sometimes special discounts or rebates. We've got national deals with sherwin williams and sears.
The point is to get the best deal for the client that we can....it's not always as good as builder pricing, sometimes it's better. But whatever the case, it's always a bunch better than a single owner builder could do on their own. Many owner builders aren't even able to get access to standard contractor pricing.
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
Edited 3/23/2005 12:28 pm ET by UBuildIt
Misconceptions of consultants are common. Maybe I can shed some light, as I still do a bit of consulting in my prior field.
My specialty of many years is Risk Management and Worker's Compensation. (yea, yea, I know... Boooooring... why do you think I came back to construction?!) I have a wealth of resources at my disposal, ranging from safety materials to full blown safety engineering firms. I can look at a comp risk... and in 30 minutes, have in my mind an action plan to mitigate existing claims and reduce rates.
I can do a safety program, from memory, for many industries. I have "been there, done that" with everything from an ultra safe and great risk management (fine tuning)... to saving a company from impending doom due to out of control risk management and high comp and GL rates (complete overhaul).
If someone wants to outsource (hire me to do the work) the risk management function of their business... I can do that. It's very expensive (but I'm worth it !). If they only want advice (consulting)... I can do that also. Much more cost effective.
A full blown risk management outsourcing involves giving me complete control of the risk management duties for the company... including the ability to hire and fire employees... and institute policies that are fitting within the budgetary constraints and bring the company not only into compliance,... but into a position of excellence. They pay me... and they pay all associated expenses of the programs I implement... including any overhead costs I may incur on their behalf.
A consulting arrangement involves me giving advice, training the existing employees, evaluating various approaches to mitigate risk and advising the client how to do it, etc. It is up to the company to implement my suggestions... or not... and to decide the level of assistance they wish. I suggest... they implement.
In the case of UBuildit... I am under the impression that they bring resources to the table... but don't control them (subs). They advise and consult... but don't actually do the work of the GC. The customer (homeowner, in this case) is the GC on the project.
The GC controls the building process. Of course, the GC will consult with the homeowner on certain decisions... but it a TOTALLY different kind of "consulting".
In the case of a consultant... the Homeowner/builder is the controller of the project. The consultant is there to give advice... help with making decisions about issues as they develop... make recomendations... etc.
BIG difference between the "doer" and the "consultant". Most good consultants can also be a "doer (a GC in the case of UBuildit... a risk management outsourcer in my case). Very few risk managers can consult (nor would I want them to even attempt it!). And I would venture to say that not every GC could be (or should be) a consultant.
Each has it's niche in the marketplace. Each has it's advantages and disadvantages. It is dependent upon the individual situation as to which is best suited... the "doer" or the "consultant".
You got it about right, Rich. There's many segments in the home marketplace, and assisted owner building is just a smidgen of the whole pie. There's a place for GC's, there's a place pre-owned used homes (real estate), a place for production, a place for spec and 10% of the marketing place is owner builders. Now, we assist some of those in getting their home finished, safely, on time and on budget.
But, consulting is a very different beast than GC'ing. Apples and oranges.
But, there's a place for both and it's driven by consumer demand.
-c
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
"You got it about right, Rich"
A consultant is never good enough with "about right"... we have to "be right" !!
And we are... 100% of the time... just ask any one of us!!
ok. BITE ME!
Read my post to christiubuildit.
Thanks for the book Mike, I'm waiting for it to arrive from Blue.
It allready has 2 new homes after me.
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
<<<<<<I get the feeling that UBUILD is marketed as a shield between the h/o and "those God awful, crooked contractors">>>
I've attached some of our current marketing, in case you want to check it out. I'm trying to get the TV and the :60 radio up, but prospero's giving me a hard time.
What do ya think of that jingle? =)
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
"What do ya think of that jingle? =)"
Ya want an honest answer to that one?
You need to hire a marketing CONSULTANT... nothing personal :-) !! LOL
pfffffffffbbbbbbbbbt!
;)
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
Sorry... I just had the CONSULTANT hat on!!! LOL
Now for the salesman hat.... "Gee Christi... that's interesting"
Now for the CEO hat... "Will that advertisement bring the necessary brand recognition to the table?"
Now for the Sales Manager's hat... "Will we get even one lead from that?"
Now the Radio ad exec hat... "WOW... THAT was GREAT!... now when can we schedule your flight of ads?"
Now the 18 yr old hat... "Way cool man... did P-Diddy do that for you dudes?"
Now the old man hat... "That new fangled way of doing she-it is just ruinin' this-here country. I remember cuttin' down trees and hand sawin' the lumber for my first house."
It's all in the eyes (and ears) of the beholder!!
Edited 3/22/2005 11:03 pm ET by Rich from Columbus
You're a funny guy.
You on the make for some consulting hours? LOL
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
I'm ALWAYS "on the make" when it comes to $$ !!!
Consultants got a bad name when there were so many of the middle managers that all thought they could make some quick cash by consulting. Unfortunatley... many couldn't find their way to an advisory meeting without it being held in the men's room (or ladies room... whichever your preference or requirement :-) )
The result was some real horror stories that put a cloud over the "C word". There are some unconscious talent out there in consulting... and some real losers too. Most consumers.. whether they be corporate or individual... don't realize the amount of experience that is available to them at a reasonable cost (by comparison).
Just a piece of advice... not only do your consultants need to be well versed in construction.. but they also need to have that "something extra" that it takes to translate that knowledge into useful consulting advice.
It's easy to find the expertise... I can think of 15 guys right now that can build a darn nice house.... that would jump at the opportunity to consult. Not a single one of them, however, has the temperament or people skills to be able to actually become a successful consultant.
Really a shame too... as they will probably retire soon with all of that knowledge... and not be able to impart that wisdom to others in an effective way.
You got it right on the head. Construction talent can be found........teaching them to be "authoritative" and not "authoritarian" is the challenge. We got a 'honkin' support department (headed by me...little bow) that moves the consultants through training to learn how to be "consultative".
-c
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
Do you have an in-house psychologist for those "authoritarian-turned authoritative" types? LOL
And have you come up with the ultimate of marketing giveaways, that is also of use to a consultant for those "psycho moments"... "the stress-relieving squeezy toy"? LOLOLOLOL
http://callard.logomall.com/ProductSearch/PSProductResults.aspx?SCAT_Id=9142&DPSV_Id=117414&CATY_Id=638&ASI=&WS=&LN=&pF=&pT=
Perhaps this one... http://callard.logomall.com/ProductDetail/ProductDetail.aspx?id=2803038&SCAT_Id=9142&Pg=6&DPSV_Id=117414&CATY_Id=638&ASI=Linline&WS=&LN=Linline&pF=&pT=&pSRVC_ID=34
or this one? http://callard.logomall.com/ProductDetail/ProductDetail.aspx?id=2803494&SCAT_Id=9142&Pg=6&DPSV_Id=117414&CATY_Id=638&ASI=Linline&WS=&LN=Linline&pF=&pT=&pSRVC_ID=34
or this one, maybe? http://callard.logomall.com/ProductDetail/ProductDetail.aspx?id=2803489&SCAT_Id=9142&Pg=5&DPSV_Id=117414&CATY_Id=638&ASI=Linline&WS=&LN=Linline&pF=&pT=&pSRVC_ID=34
Edited 3/22/2005 11:47 pm ET by Rich from Columbus
Hey,
We give that one out at home shows!
http://callard.logomall.com/ProductDetail/ProductDetail.aspx?id=2803494&SCAT_Id=9142&Pg=6&DPSV_Id=117414&CATY_Id=638&ASI=Linline&WS=&LN=Linline&pF=&pT=&pSRVC_ID=34
it's got a sexy little UBuildIt logo on the roof!
=)
-c
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
:60 radio
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
Tv commercial
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
"So, I guess that I am assuming that this is what the "consultant" is responsible for."
I have had people run into trouble with a budget and I am acting as the GC. A consultant has a heck of a lot less control over a project than I do. Some people have a hard time living with their decisions and are irresponsible when it comes to spending money. It doesn't seem to matter how much time and how much paperwork you use; they just don't seem to be able to figure out that the cost goes up and up. They always pay up in the end but are befuddled that the cost is 25%, 50%, 100% more than the number they wanted to spend.
Thank you.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Sounds like the homeowner wouldn't listen to anything but his ego.
Why did Ubuild put a lien on the property? How much financial involvement do you have. Apparently it's more than just your fee.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Just our fee.
The homeowner pays for labor and materials directly. The client owed a significant amount to us. It would be fairly disastrous for the subs not to get paid and for the loan to go wonky, too. Owner-builder loans can be very difficult to get. Our lends like to lend to our clients it's a good actuarial risk because we're there to prevent disaster with the loan....we want to keep it that way.
-christi
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
Hmmm, I had a feeling...that story sounds familiar...! :)
We'll do our best to avoid traveling down that road!
-Kacy
ugly, huh?
moral of the story - call yer consultant! ;)
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
Since there was an electrical inspection that means there was a building inspector on board. How they got by him has me scatching my head under my cap. The garage should have been turned down on a framing inspection.Changing trusses on the job requires approval from the truss companies engineer with a stamped set of drawings. The fill should have shot down a slab inspection. The slab specs out of the code book leave little to be questioned. They are very straight forward and easy to comprehend. The inspector failed to help out on that one. He could have shut the job down if it wasnt changed. Thats his job, not the consultant .
I told the guys here a while back that a contractor and his super refused to make a change I requested . On their refusal ,I drew my cell phone and ordered power and water to be discontinued. They became agreeable good old boys in a hurry. BY the time I left you would have thought we were fishing buddies. But even then , that only happened that one time.
Timothy
Edited 3/21/2005 11:43 pm ET by TIMMOONEY52
Tim,
Apparently they did fail…mainly on electrical. The building department stops writing things down once they get to 3 failed items. Since that particular inspector comes from a mostly electrical background he found his first few items in electrical before he ever got around to framing. After the client failed is when the consultant was brought in and helped them get through the items needed to pass (including the garage wall and the other cut/modified trusses—and getting the engineered stamped documents to go with it.).
There is no slab inspection for porches and garages in that city…..In the slab inspections they are mostly concerned with making sure there is a vapor barrier in the basement slab and that the underground plumbing has been passed by the health department inspector.
-c
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
Still looking for the moral of this story!
Thank you Christi.
I see Don hasn't cared to come back to the forum since his last check-in on the 17th unless he decided to slide in under radar. That says a lot too.
So now we know,the rest of the story.
be that's a cut and a wrap guys, time to go home.
I'd like to say exactly what my thinking is on this one, but I want to hear it out. You don't know how bad my fingers itch to type my projected outcome on this one
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Whatever you say. I am just an interested third party. Whenever you decide is fine with me. I'm not sure at this time where this all stands other than don was congenial and seemed satisfied about making contact with you and the org. He mentioned I believe having some transmission in the near future. Let me add complements on how this forum, you and don have done a service to us all by showing us some examples of problem solving.
so, you making plans for Ohio in August?
Any suppliers/contacts you can put the touch to for some door prizes? We've never met, but I've been known to work the room.
thanks chrisstiRemodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
You know, I have an office near there, so I might be able to 'happen to be in the neighborhood', ya know?
I'll consider it as long everybody promises not to hurt me. You guys skeer me! ;) But you have to promise to let me drink scotch....beer gives me the heebie jeebies.
And, I do have some interesting ideas for gimme stuff and prizes. Headcount? I've got some fun hooks to vendors and manufacturers. Who is in charge of the tchotchky's? Have 'em email me.
Serve all you guys types right if I sent ya UBuildIt shirts/hats! LOL. I just crack myself up. heheh...just think of it.
-christi
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
Who is in charge of the tchotchky's? Have 'em email me.
I'm not quite sure what ^ that is, but I'm guessing I'm in charge of it. As to the crappola stuff, I'm definitely in charge of that. Will take all you can ship or carry. These folks like stuff, more volume the better. We managed a donation from a JLC Live presenter just yesterday.
Yes to the scotch. If you keep his glass filled, you'll be Rick the fish fryer's buddy.
And please don't panic about attendance. Everyone I've met from these forums has been A-1, some a little strange, but you'll have that. There'll be safety in numbers and past women attendees can vouch for this being a kid and feminine friendly Fest. Make the resv. and commit. Knowing you're coming will bring 'em outta the woodwork. Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
You know, I will seriously consider it. Let me chew it over and I'll get back at ya.
Here's your dictionary lesson.......=)
chach·ka or tchotch·ke View Image ( P ) Pronunciation Key (chView ImagechView ImagekView Image) also tsats·ke (tsätsView ImagekView Image)n. Slang
A cheap showy trinket.
[Yiddish tshatshke, from Polish dialectal czaczka.]
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
you bet your dupa (from the polish trans) I'll take the cheap showy trinket. Volume is good. No one likes to go home empty handed. Thank you.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
We're all pussycats here, and you wouldn't belive what we'll do for a few cheap showy trinkeets. Might even trade you a smelly old island in the Hudson river for them
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Any idea how many will make the trek?
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
One of the things you'll get to know about these BT'ers by attending is that right up till the last minute, no one knows. Right now I would venture a guess of 50-75 folks. I've got a list of probables maybe 60 long. You see, many of us are self employed or worse yet, owners of the business. Too often we let business run our lives. Those that take a stand and make the time usually are the happier for it. It wasn't that long ago my wife would beg, plead and demand we vacation. Something always came up. Now, we set the time, make the reservation and try like hell to get all things taken care of b/4 we leave.
I'll tell you what, if we have too much, we'll give 'em two! And if you have a contact with a bldg related supplier, remind them of the good will and all the other marketing stuff they'll get from a generous donation. We have memories like a trap.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Well, goodwill is something they all get! I'll put some thinkin' into it.
Keep you posted.
-c
Let the beauty of what you love be what you do. ~ Rumi
Thank you,
now back to your regularly scheduled program.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Class action lawsuit against UBuildIt
I am looking to build a class action lawsuit against UBUILDIT. This is a scam and is intended to screw the general population by apealing to the "American Dream" of home ownership. Please reply with contact information.
Class
You'll have to fill us in on what caused this change of heart from your start in homebuilding.
One person from Ubuildit spent some serious time here as a member-tho she's been long gone-I never knew her to be a conniving scumsucker.
So, have at it-some background and location please.
thanks
What's my take on this here class action suit. What's your take.
Don again............
So,
I read through much of the thread-again.
Did not get to the part where you responded to Christi in detail. Can you point to it and provide a link?
thanks for returning and I'm interested in how this all panned out.