Met with maybe new clients last night – he’s a cartoonist for Cartoon Network, she’s a designer of some type.
Want me to help them design their dream house, okay? (I’m too busy to build in short term)
Had books, clippings, sketches, photos, right?
Disney’s haunted mansion – both in CA and FL
Addams Family house
Munster’s house
Man, I kid y’all not.
Cool folks; don’t know if it will come to anything, but who knows . . .
Forrest – what can I say to top that?
Replies
That would be a fun build. Hope it turns into a real project.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I hope it does turn out to be real. We spent some time discussing exactly how to do the basement stairs under the main stair in the octagonal entrance hall, a la' the Munster's house. His wife says that can be his splurge.
He's found a place on the web that actually sells that actual stair! Really pricey though, so maybe we'll copy.
Forrest
Ooooohhh, the inspector's gonna have fun too!;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Sounds like you'll be needing a good slater for those fancy towers you'll be building !!
You might as well pitch this one to one of the HGTV shows!
That sounds like a fun one. Be cool if they had the cash to really pull it off.
The house is a museum
When people come to see 'em.....
Do they have any kids named after days of the week?
PJ
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
Not yet!
Forrest
You could get another design example by watching "Second Hand Lions".
Not to mention that it's a very good movie.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Psycho had a azz kickin' staircase. Freakin' newel musta been 6 ft high!
View Image
is today Saturday?
I was telling them about a favorite feature of mine; in Psycho 2 there is an enormous kitchen hot water boiler mounted on the wall above the sink. Just a set, but looks great!
Forrest
I thought that movie was a hoot..."son, you better pick up that knife cuz , heheh, you're gonna need it..".
.
.
., wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?
Something out of the ordinary, I like it. I'm due for a project like that. Need help?
BTW, I hope you got paid for all that consulting time. I'm tired of giving it away and not getting paid, or worse, not getting the job.
Good Luck!
How totally cool!! A perfect fit for the hidden door in the library, secret room or 2, a tower (for sure a tower).The Haunting of Hull House had some great features too (well except for all the gruesomely killed dead people). That massive stone fireplace was awesome (probably fake but still awesome).ONE WEEK Pumpkin-sitting w/the only Houdini dog in America. Day 5.
MikeMicalizzi,
If you do weird things your clients know one of two things have to happen.. One you'll put enough profit in it to make sure your paid for your time. or two you will flood them with change orders.
The way to find out if people are serious without wasting a lot of your time is to know things going in.. for example I can build a house and earn a fair wage for my efforts at $100.00 a sq.ft. (I just picked a number, use whatever applies) I can do custom work and make a fair wage at $125.00 per sqft. (or whatever)
Once we are beyond the norm nobody will be able to give accurite bidding information and they will either add enough to cover any problem or flood you with change orders.
If I guestimated say $150 per sqft. would you feel that is affordable to you? If so when would you like me to start. (go for the close NOW!!!!) If you walk out without the close you walk out without the job.. Have a simple basic contract written up ith those items blank and fill it in when standing in front of them.. if they have to sleep on it there are counters to it but it's selling techiques you might not feel equiped to deal with.
The sleep on it, or a check with my banker, lawyer etc.. are simply stalls, basically they have a question you haven't answered or they simply feel that you are the wrong person for the job..
A professional salesman would back up and find out what the objection really is and either deal with it or walk away.. There are simple ways to find out what the real objection is but it's a technique that improperly used will offend.. Properly used it will make you a consultant rather than a contractor.. believe me you want to be a consultant, because you're already hired all that remains is the details.. You are now in the position of urning dow the job or accepting it rather trying to fight to be considered..
Thanks Frenchy, I really appreciate the great advice. My own salesman techniques certainly need work.
Mike
Mike Micalizzi,
Don't feel bad, less than one person in well over a hundred who starts out trying to be a professional salesman remains in the field for 5 years..
It's hard, really hard!
there is a real skill to do the job well. The rewards are great because the second best paid profession is Sales. but the failure rate is tremendous.. those who remain inthe field but never master the skills and techniques may call themselves salesmen but their income is pittiful compared to yours.
With the high number of salesmen who earn a poor income, those who excell must really earn well to put the career up right next to doctors.
It's both a skill and an artform. (crazy as that sounds) knowing what to say when to say it and how to listen are just a tiny fraction of the required techniques. there's judgement and technique plus a blend of showmanship and maybe even a little razzle dazzle. You need to learn to read people and help them express what they really want.
Since in a lot of cases they either don't know or don't want to admit it they hide behind reasons like costs too much or have to sleep on it etc..
Once you've mastered all the techniques and skills you'll tend to be a slick talker.. and your success rate will plumate!
Then you go read a book like Shut up and Sell and find out that less is more, your mouth costs you more deals that it got you..
At some point all that experiance judgement training learning and practice will put you inthe right market at the right time and it will all be worth it.
Beth and I have been doing a lot of thinking along the lines of home building as set design. My buddie Craig Denman out in Whitefish Montana did a whole house that was an elaborate set design for some hollywood types http://www.denmanconstruction.com/za/DNM?PAGE=GALLERY&ZA_ARTICLE.ID=22&PAGENUM= their idea was to "imagine that we were walking in the woods and came apon this really cool old hunting shack and bought it and then added on to it over the years. They actually faux painted the walls and electrical switch plates etc to make it look as if the roof had leaked for years. A very cool place, but still a mansion of course.
We've been using 3/8" rebar tied together into an armature wrapped with expanded wire mesh and topped out with surface bonding concrete and stucco to make free form interior walls that can still have wiring and other modern conveniances and be mildew-free. I'm talking with my structural engineer about ways to build earth sheltered "cave houses" using this same system. We've been really inspired by the sets used in Narnia movie, Tolken movies, and Eragorn. Why not design and build homes that fired the fantasies?
Hope you get this job and have lots of fun with it.
Michael
Very neat stuff you have going there!!
Wow!
Looks like a huge amount of fun!
Forrest
If you get that job, you've GOT to post some pics for us.
There are two kinds of lawyers. Those who know the law and those who know the judge.
I had to bid that fixed price to get the work. 17' tall 40' long. two sided. I guessed $15,000 including the engineering, brought it in at under $10,000. Sometimes you get lucky. It was a huge amount of fun except that all that expanded wire mesh got tied from a ladder INSIDE the wall. and all those ties had very sharp ends sticking out. We came home with perforated backs and elbows for a week. Still lots of fun making it happen.Now I want to do a house in the style of Tumnuses cave. But that customer hasn't found me yet.
Burtman 3 looks oddly sexual to me. Is it just me?Legal Disclaimer: The preceeding comments are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as professional advice. The reader of these comments agrees to hold harmless the poster, EJCinc, from any and all claims that EJCinc offered professional advice, ideas, or comments to the reader that may or may not have resulted in the damage, injury, or death to the readers property or person.
Very astute! the niche in the middle took a piece of sculpture with mother goddess / sexuality overtones. I need to get some photo's of it with the art collection.
Hm. The guy work on "Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends," by any chance? House there strongly echoes those TV houses...very Gothic Revival (if I understand the label correctly).
Jason
McDesign,
Are you hired or bidding?
<Are you hired or bidding?>
Neither, yet. I was recommended to them by several clients as a designer and builder, but only my design (night) schedule is open for 2007. We've had some feasability discussions (their free two hours), and they understand that further work on my part, from developing the concept to a full-fledged drawing package, is billed at normal rate. They can quit at any time and pay the time worked.
It may be that their timetable will slip; in which case I'll bid on the construction in 2008.
Forrest - humming the Addam's Family song
I know it's a long way off, and there'd be some logistics to work out.... but I'd seriously be interested in framing something like that should the opportunity arise. A portfolio piece like that comes around once in a lifetime for guys like me and I'd love to make it shine. Just something else for you to think about. ;)View Image
<I'd seriously be interested in framing something like that >
Hey - just wanted to update you on the house shape so's you can keep me in mind. property has been purchased; design is well underway!
This is mainly a block diagram to get all the volumes in the desired places, but it's probably close. 12' basement (built into a slope; walk out on left side and back), 16-18' main floor, plus a bridge at the 9-10' level. 8' unfinished attics above the front rooms; flat roof over the back section; tower roof over the entry octagon
Main levelx
MezzanineView Image
Oh yeah - here's the exterior concept - Disneyland Tokyo!View Image
Forrest - man this is a fun one
Edited 5/4/2007 11:28 pm by McDesign
Edited 5/4/2007 11:28 pm by McDesign
Edited 5/4/2007 11:28 pm by McDesign
Edited 5/4/2007 11:29 pm by McDesign
Whoops! Didn't get the main level in there -
Here it is -
View Image
Forrest
Edited 5/4/2007 11:31 pm by McDesign
Edited 8/1/2007 10:43 am by McDesign
Drool.....
Forrest, that thing is just gonna be an absolute blast for whoever gets to build it.View Image
so.... whaddayathink , brian...
load up your lull.. hook up the trailers .. and the yankees invade Georgia once more ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Yeah, I'd find a way for the one.... given the opportunity. Those don't come around much.View Image
Thanks guys, for the interest.
I'm gonna' tell the client it could be just like the barn-raising in the movie Witness, except with power tools and a Lull, and less beards and hats - maybe.
Or maybe in The Money Pit where Hanks and Long are awakened by the horrible noise of the workmen arriving, on motorcycles and monster trucks and motor tricycles, all looking "like dey jus' killed dey parents!"
Forrest - enjoying the process
Is it time to move this one to the Fest folder, then?
yeah!
Haunted Fest!
Build Fest!
Beast Fest!
Forrest
<Edit> Uncle Fest er!
Edited 5/5/2007 2:54 pm by McDesign
Update time on the Monster House project - design and costing are progressing. Headed in the direction of ICFs. Sorry for the larger size of the files.
Can't recall who sent me a link to this, but clients really like it, and want to combine it with the look of the HH at Disneyland Tokyo previously posted. This is a jail in Gilead, OH -View Image
Here's the main layout of the design as it stands now -View Image
Floor of the main house - only ~2550 square feet!View Image
Mezzanine level -View Image
Attic level -View Image
Basement level (only under rear section of house)View Image
Forrest - havin' fun today
Edited 8/1/2007 11:21 am by McDesign
cool design . . . looks like fun (don't know why but the whole thing reminds me of the Haunted House at Disneyland . . . should be perfect for a cartoonist) :)
Guess my only comment from the plans are that the best spaces seem underutilized. Almost all the 2nd and 3rd floor spaces are storage or attic space. Seems like there's some drama waiting to happen there. Especially when you see the photo images you're drawing inspiration from.
I agree about the space utilization up top - reason is, they want to get into the house, and then tailor it over the years. We'll probably do the apartment on the right side ASAP, just to get them moved from their existing house onto this property.
Forrest
Are you going to take this on solo, too? Heh.
HIS closet is twice the size of HER closet ???
Yeh... That'll work.
<HIS closet is twice the size of HER closet ???>
He's got more costumes - really!
Fooling around with massing now -
View Image
Forrest
Edited 8/1/2007 5:10 pm by McDesign
Hey,Mc, what program are you using to draw that up with?
An old copy of AutoCAD - R14, I think. I have the full version, but all I really do with it is 2-D drafting. Keep telling myself I'm gonna' learn SketchUp for visualization, but I just like making models!
For real models, I plot out all the elevation faces to 1/24 or 1/48 scale, with windows or bricks or whatever printed on, spraytack them onto foam board, and hot glue them together. Then topo layers for the base, grass and trees from the hobby store . . .
Forrest - never had a model train set
Forrest
You never cease to amaze me. I wish I had half your energy. and a quarter of your talent. Thanks
Greg in Connecticut
Forrest,
Looks like a great job. Have fun.
How many secret passages?
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
<How many secret passages?>
"Some"
Forrest
From over at the Sketchup users forum, here's a screenshot from a new-user poster showing off his first attempt at doing a house design.
View Image
Wow! Is that a model or a screen shot of a rendering? I hope to get to that level of detail on the Monster House model (printed paper and foam board).
Forrest
That is straight SU.
Here's one from a guy who is posting over there, saying, "I've got nothing to do right now, so send me your SU files and I'll render them for free."
He's probably using Kerkythea, a free download. Really nice rendering package.
View Image
Here is the rest of your "jail" and this is not Ohio
View Image
Ya reckon them two architects had the same teacher?SamT
My photo is Old Main in Fayetteville, AR. The design is by John Mills Van Osdel who apparently is a well know Chicago architect. The original cost of construction of the 100,000 square foot building was $130,000. The building plans were copies from architect John Mills Van Osdel's University Hall at the University of Illinois. That building no longer exists.
The jail was built by Auld & Miller, contractors from Mt Gillead. No internet clues as to the architect.SamT
Hi McDesign;
I can see that you are having quite a bit of fun with this assignment. I'm going to give you some suggestions. Please don't be insulted. I can see that you are being very creative with the massing of the house, but your plan has a zillion problems that should not exist in a house of this size, or any house for that matter. Perhaps your clients don't mind that this will be a difficult house to live in, but perhaps you would want to think about some of these concerns I would have as a designer.
- you have a grand entry with big double doors, but you practically trip on the stairs coming in. Imagine two people standing there, greeting two guests, opening the door, stepping back, tripping over the stair.... Believe me, they will seem WAY too close to the door.
- In a house this big, wouldn't a decdent sized easy to use guest closet be nice? Instead of one that you have to fight your way to the back of the rod.?
- Draw some furniture and a tv in that great room, and you will see that you have created a nice large space that is very difficult to furnish.
- You need to develop the kitchen plan. Perhaps chairs at the penninsula would be nice, but they are in the way of the door. A sink under the window would abe nice, but there is not enough work room to the left. The fridge over by the pantry will be a long walk. you have just enough width in that kitchen that they will wish they had an island, but it is a bit too tight for that. Make it wider or narrower. One door on the pantry would allow you to put shelves on the sides.
- Entering the master bath from off of the kitchen?? Should the king of the castle be in the scuttlery maid bedroom location? With all of that square footage, couldn't you develop a vestibule entry into the bedroom? While you are at it, perhaps you could make it a more comfortable bed and entry arrangement. The best set up is approaching the foot of the bed. It is usually uncomfortable to view the approach to the side. Huge bedroom, but no room for nightstands? Perhaps you need to look at the bath a bit too: if I stand at the first sink, my spouse can't come into the room without me stepping aside into all that wasted floor space.
- hope the mother in law doesn't get smacked in the face by that garage door swinging ito the hall! And the laundry??? Do you ever do laundry? You need some floor space for laundry baskets, etc. With those doors open and a basket or two on the floor, hope no one needs to get to the car on laundry day. Also, with a house this giant, wouldn't itbe nice to have a bit of a mudroom, place to put the backpacks and purse, a decent amount of coats and the mail?
I could go on, but you get the idea. Perhaps the outside form should not totally drive the plan, and the plan should make sense as a place to live as well.
Thanks for the fine-tooth review - I'll actually e-mail it to the client. One thing to remember, though, is the house proper is not really a big house - 2550 square feet inside the walls - it's just tall with a mezzanine and some attics and a full basement.
Most of the stuff you mentioned has been specifically discussed, and is client-driven - form is definitely over function here! At this point, we're trying to get the outside shape fixed for the American PolySteel (ICF) rep.
Keep looking - things will evolve.
Forrest
Hey FineDesign - your comments sparked some useful discussion with the clients! Some stuff we looked at and modified; some stuff they wanted to keep. Also, I've been "rationalizing" the plan to work in even increments of the PolySteel ICF system and talking to the reps. Only about seven cut pieces (shaded) in the basic layout.
Same shape, but nudged here and there. Still under 3000 square feet on the main floor.
Here's the PolySteel layout at the basement level (no penetrations shown) - like designing with Lego blocks!View Image
Here's the main floor plan that fits on it -
View Image
Forrest - designing up a sweat today
Edited 8/17/2007 2:01 pm by McDesign
Here's the basement layout after rationalization.
Remember, this still a "cartoon" in the sense that there has been no allowance yet for mechanical systems
View Image
Forrest
Edited 8/18/2007 1:03 pm by McDesign
Doing a scaled "cartoon" of the front-to-rear-section to look at the stairway runs.
View Image
Forrest
Edited 8/21/2007 12:32 pm by McDesign
Looking good! How many HVAC zones will you have?
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Still working on the zones. Client found a sort-of model of the Tokyo HH -
View Image
Forrest
Edited 8/21/2007 4:57 pm by McDesign
That's going to be great! I hope you do it as project manager. 3 grand a week and 10% AGV fee.
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Wow, looks like an awesome project.
When/ where do I put in the application to get a chance to work on it?
The bad news is you've done exactly the right things to be exactly where you are today.
"IdahoDon 1/31/07"
It's going to be a lot of concrete in ICFs - wood for interior partition walls, and trussed roofs. plan to start this fall with the garage and in-law suite - slab-on-grade.
Here's the in-law suite I've been fooling with today, to get a truss design and quote - the monitor up top is just to let light in through (8) 30x30 fixed double pane units - the truss bracing continues normally beneath it.
The only area with a ceiling will be the right center, where the ceiling will be lowered to 8' over the bathroom. This area will be stick framed, and the air handler and HWH will be located there.
View Image
Forrest
Edited 8/29/2007 8:05 pm by McDesign
So should I wait to give my two weeks notice to current boss?
Wonder if my wife is ready to move, if not guess I wont need to rent much of a place to stay!The bad news is you've done exactly the right things to be exactly where you are today.
"IdahoDon 1/31/07"
Update time on Monster House.
The client is getting old waiting for financing! (Last night)
View Image
Forrest
Edited 10/25/2008 9:05 am ET by McDesign
Forrest,
That sounds pretty wild.
You ever catch the show "Monster House."
They did a Halloween special you might want to check out.
I am bidding a project this week for a designer that has worked for Garrison Keillor. Nothing spectacular, but since you like NPR...I thought you might find it interesting.
Boo!
Basswood
Here's some more drafting fooling around. Trying to get the mansard & dormered roof form right; just 2D geometry and erasing hidden lines - not a 3D model, but it helps me plan.
View Image
Gabled wall dormers are all 14/12 pitch; mansard sides are 40/12, and the top "flat" planes are raised only 12" at the ridges, to let the membrane drain water.
<Whoops - forgot the turret roof>
Forrest
Edited 8/2/2007 8:28 pm by McDesign
So how many bushels does that silo hold?
:)
jt8
"Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Forrest,
You are going to need a serious framing contractor for that. There are several on this site and we all know who they are. Think Big Foot, vaults, and Tull for starters.
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
<So how many bushels does that silo hold?>
ba dump bump
Does kinda' look like that, huh? Guess I'll have to do a real design before I build it.
Forrest
A strange side effect of living in the midwest is that many 'towers' look like silos or grain bins.
Wonder why the Germans put windows on their silos? ;)
View Image
jt8
"Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
So they could pour boiling oil on or shoot arrows into any upcoming marauders trying to steal the best corn on the planet<g>.Shocking discovery! Pitbull puppies next door LOVE Riesentraube tomatoes!