Hi folks,
This is my first post, though I’ve been reading the list for a while. I am your basic homeowner with more tools than common sense, but one thing I have learned is that it’s better to ask questions BEFORE I screw something up, so here goes.
Our basement (which underlies half of our house) was built in the early 50’s, a slab with cinder block walls. Some time later somebody dug out, from the basement, a portion of the crawlspace under the other half of the house (which sits on a perimeter foundation). This apparently was done so they could hook up to city water and sewage. So now we have an odd-shaped dirt cavity about 10′ x 12″ x 5-6′ high. It’s a mess, but it seems harmless enough as far as structural issues (we’ve lived here 25 years). It’s dry and the earth is stable. The remaining portion of the soil that hasn’t been dug out is about 4′ high.
I would like to finish it well enough to store lumber and such back there. As it is now, anything left back there gets filthy fast. My notion is to dig down about 8″, put down 4″ of gravel, and cover the “floor” with either concrete or dry-laid solid 4″ thick cinder blocks. The “walls” are a puzzle, though. The walls would not have to support anything above them or even contact the floor joists above. I do expect that I would end up backfilling whatever earth I had to move against the outer side of the walls. I would build a 2×4 frame across the “ceiling” to cross-brace the walls.
So…what I am puzzled about is whether the walls have to be cinder block or whether they could be pressure-treated plywood and 2×6 PT frame construction (similar to a pressure-treated foundation wall).
All this is a lot of work and expense to go through for a relatively small amount of low-head clearance storage space and, maybe more trouble than it’s worth, but it’s also a matter of trying to make it less of an eyesore and maybe make it more useful. I don’t know what to make of it as far as the Code is concerned, since it seems to me that it’s still basically just a crawlspace, not living space of any sort. Also, if I could level the rest of the crawlspace with the back-filled earth, I could insulate that wing of the house more effectively.
Maybe you can see why I’ve just been staring at it for 25 years? I’d appreciate any suggestions about a better course of action or something similar anyone might have done.
Thanks in advance, and thanks for all other good thinking I’ve seen here and in the magazine.
Jasper57
Edited 12/24/2007 1:35 am ET by Jasper57
Replies
I've never built one but they are code-approved in many areas. Download the manual from the Southern Pine Council here:
http://www.southernpine.com/pwf.shtml
Rebar and shot crete. Think dry swimming pool.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
cool. Gunite waterproof cellar w/ diving board.
I've been in similar situations I think. You really don't "need" the space but it would be nice to have. And the ditch looks funky.
The problem is that if you don't do it right it still looks like an afterthought. In order to make it look like someone thought it through and there is a good reason for doing it you have to do it right.
That means not doing it half way and spending money. Otherwise it will look like an afterthought and someone (you) will look cheap.
I've done it both ways and I really dislike trying to explain to people why I did it half way and badly.
Personally, and this is just my opinion, I'd dig it out full depth, put a slab in, and block walls. And make it wide enough for shelving on both sides with room to move in.
Otherwise, just leave it alone.
Edited 12/25/2007 2:36 pm ET by popawheelie
I have used "Lintel Blocks" dry stacked and with a single hor. rebar dropped into each course and a few verts. then filled the cells with grout of sack mix to build walls like this .
Easy to do , no expertise needed and looks clean when done.
Meant to mention I used 6" blocks .
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
First of all, I'd like to thank you all for posting your thoughts on this at Christmastime. I know how busy I've been the last few days and I'm sure it's the same for you guys, so I appreciate it.
Popawheelie has it right. I don't want to do it half-a**ed, but, like everything else, there's a limit to how much money and time it's worth. Also, it's true that everything has to be hand lugged down into a basement that has pretty poor access. But it is probably a good idea to keep digging down until the headroom becomes reasonable. There are cavities on either side of the main space that I can throw a lot of dirt into. A decent slab is worth doing, too.
I like the idea of Lintel Blocks, though. Are you saying that they should be laid up like a regular vertical wall, or should each course be offset back from the one below, like a timber retaining wall?
That reminds me, though, of another process. I remember reading somewhere long ago (FH??) about using a fiberglass impregnated concrete that you could parge onto a dry-stack wall and end up with a smooth, solid, fairly strong wall. I think I've seen it around. Has anyone ever used that?
Thanks again and best wishes for the Holidays as well,
Jasper57
I dry stacked mine vertically, no step back against the dirt.
Staggered the vertical joints by alternating the corner blocks . Went up a few courses, dropped a horz. bar in each course as I went then a few short vertical bars (just long enough to tie into the next two courses) then filled the courses. I have some planting beds here I made the same way. 18 or so year old now and I have dragged them, pushed them , and lifted them many times with my bobcat and they are still in one piece.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I don't see any reason that you can't do it with the PT lumber in the manner you suggest.
OTOH, the post about doing it right, so that it looks good (instead of so-so) makes more sense.
Think it boils down to what are you really going to do with the space and how much you want to spend. Price it out both ways. You might be surprised.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Probably overkill, but you could use a retaining wall system like Keystone. Downside is you'd have to haul it all through your basement if I'm getting the picture.
http://keystonewalls.com/pages/Contractor_pages/C_prod.struct.html
PJ
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.