Looking into getting my CA general B, but also interested in the “cabinetry, millwork, finish carpentry” one. Believe I would qualify for either. My question is in what ways the two overlap. It seems that legally the main purpose of a general contractor is to hire specialty contractors. Does that mean that he is not licensed to do the same work himself? If not an owner/builder, is he technically REQUIRED to hire another to do the roofing, drywall, electrical, etc.? Perhaps it is assumed that he is doing the rough carpentry himself, as well as the finish carpentry? Even installing the cabinets? How far does “carpentry” go in this case? At what point does a general contractor need specialty licensing? If it is assumed that a general license overlaps all others (which I don’t think it does), why would anyone bother with a class C license unless they couldn’t qualify for a general? What work is a general contractor licensed to do directly? I’m not really too worried about all of this, but I do find it interesting and a little confusing (yes I have studied the CSLB website) and would love to hear from those of you who know more than I. I’ll also ask my boss but have gotten in the habit of not depending on his knowledge base. Thanks!
Brian
Replies
Brian - Good questions. I've had a B license since 1989, and I'm still not totally clear on it. For one thing, its changed some over the years.
But my current understanding is that a B license can bid on carpentry, and on jobs requiring multiple sub-trades. But a B license cannot himself do a job requiring only one sub-trade, unless that sub-trade is carpentry. There must be at least two sub-trades. I believe a B license can bid a job with one sub-trade, but must hire a C license to do the work.
Also, many government jobs will require a C license for bidding. Meaning that a B license could legally bid the work and sub it out, but the bidding constraints imposed by the client prohibit it.
A C license in finish carpentry cannot act as a general contractor, and hire and oversee sub-trades, like a B license can.
Perhaps someone with more expertise than myself can add some clarification.
CaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
I think you have it correct, I would only like to add that if I understand the rules correctly, I can with a B license bid the deck work and the plumbing and the electrical and perform all of the work myself, if I only bid the deck and the plumbing, I cannot legally perform the work as I am only bidding one non carpentry sub trade.
It may be as you say, and that as long as I bid the deck and the plumbing I am ok, but I cannot bid just the plumbing. I think it may also be that I can do the plumbing and electrical if I bid the deck work, but not if I only want to do the plumbing and electrical.
Of course you may apply for any number of "C" licenses, as well as your "B" license as long as you have the required verified experience of 4 years as a journey level craftsperson in the various "C" categories.
So what I am saying is I understand that the rules make little sense, welcome to Kalifornia.
Thanks for the timely and knowledgeble responses, guys. I all sounds exactly what I have studied, but I wanted it in laymans terms like you provided. One major question remaining is what is considered "carpentry". There are at least two C categories that use that language. Framing and wood finish materials to be sure, but cabinets? "millwork"? I suppose the answer is yes all of the above. I find it interesting that as long as a certain number of trades are involved, a general contractor is, with very few exceptions, actually licensed to do the work of other specialty contractors. But class Bs are supposed to have a good knowledge of all trades. I'm sure it's all meant to depend on the scale of the work involved. Uh-oh, it think it's all starting to sink in . . .Brian
I live in the neighboring state, Arizona, and our statutes define general contractors and specialty contractors. Reading our statutes, which are probably similar to yours, only under the specialty contractor definition does it refer to the use of specialized trades or crafts. Nowhere under the definition of general contractor is there reference to the employment of specialized trades or crafts. The definition of general contractor only refers to the employment of other general contractors as subcontractors or to the employment of specialty contractors. As I see it, plumbing contractors award labor and material contracts for plumbing, carpentry contractors award labor and material contracts for carpentry and so forth. There would be no reason to have specialty licenses for the trades if a general contractor could do the same thing.
Edited 8/17/2008 8:47 pm ET by 5150
There must be a language barrier here. Isn't 'specialized trades' the same as 'specialty contractors'? Also--as I see it, plumbing contractors, for example, do not award plumbing contracts to others (unless you mean employees), but take, or enter into, contracts for plumbing work. If you'd like to clarify I would appreciate it. Brian
The law in Arizona states that if the total amount of all contracts awarded by a plumbing contractor or any specialty contractor exceeds $1000.00, then the contractor needs a license. Read your lien law. It tells you that plumbers are third parties to a plumbing contractor's contract. When employed as a plumbing contractor, the lien law tells you that the property owner pays for labor and materials. California law also states that the contractor who qualifies for a license can be an employee. He is referred to as the 'RME', responsible managing employee. Obviously, if the employee is qualifying for the license, then the employee is a contractor.A lien is security for a debt. There can't be a debt unless there is a contract. Every plumber who performs labor has a lien and therefore a contract whether such contract is awarded by the property owner or his agent. Plumbing contractors, like all specialty contractors, are agents of the property owner unless the property owner personally contracts for the work. Here is another myth that is pervasive. Under California law, a contractor need not carry workman's compensation unless the contractor who qualifies for the license is an employee. If the contractor has no employees, then W.C. is not necessary. There are only two natural states. One is a contract to perform plumbing labor. The other is a contract to employ plumbing labor. A contract to employ plumbing labor proves that the labor employed is independent of the party with the contract to employ.Again, this is proven in the lien laws when it states that property owners need not hire contractors and without hiring a contractor there can be no subcontractors. The lien laws state the property owner can contract directly with plumbers who perform labor. This would not be possible if plumbing labor was affiliated in any way with a plumbing contractor.
I read this post and then my brain melted. I guess this is why I work in the trades.
That is OK, 5150's brain melted before he wrote it.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5150_(Involuntary_psychiatric_hold)If you can believe this the posts are clearer than those he used to post a few years ago..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
That comes up dead, but this takes care of it.http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/wic/5150-5157.html
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"A lien is security for a debt. There can't be a debt unless there is a contract."False statement.Check with your state attorney general and they'll get you straightend out.
Great question. I operate with a "B" license and do remodeling work, where we do 90% of the work on the job.
My jobs tend to be additions, kitchens, bathrooms, decks, and the like. Anything larger it becomes cost effective to hire out subs.
I feel that there is a lot of confusion regarding this question from homeowners and from subcontractors.
My liability insurer asked me a couple of years ago to give up my "C" license, as they did not want to cover me if I subbed out to another GC. Not sure why that is, but I went ahead and did it, since I don't sub out.