Hello All,
This downturn has me unemployed for the first time in 20yr.
I quit a good job (10yr) with “issues” I could not resolve and found another good one (before s**t hit the fan) but was layed off after a little more than a year. I worked for a very high end builder that has since layed off about 1/3rd of the workforce – many long time employees. The work they did for the very rich has dried up as well.
I don’t see that work coming back for quite a while if ever.
I am looking for a job but the competition and wage pressure has ramped up. No surprise here. I have not given up on this option completely but I am on the verge.
When I do, I am resigned to getting licensed and trying to compete for the work still out there, rather than a “job”. I know times ain’t good, but I have skills.
Fortunately, I have unemployment insurance for a few more months, my wife works (not quite enough to get by), we don’t have any consumer debt and we have a good bit of cash. I experienced the early 80’s recession – this is worse.
What I am hearing is double digit unemployment may be here to stay – so I need to be proactive and deal with it. Problem is I am struggling with actually taking the plunge. I don’t really want to but I think I will have to do it. I am not big on self-promotion (probably not helping my job search either), but if I have no choice I will buck up like everyone else. I am sure I am not the only one thinking of doing this.
I can remodel, build casework, do carpentry and finish carpentry, furniture, some drywall and tile. I readily admit I am not so good at bidding, collecting $$, and looking for/finding work. Kinda key points there, but I can learn. I was looking forward to working a “job” the next 4/5 years and collecting ss at 62, moving to S. America with my S. American wife and live out my days. That I am sure has changed. Option 2 sell everything, go now, and start a little gig down there.
I have a big garage and would use it as my shop (thankfully). I have some ideas about things I could make to sell (widgets?) but i need to get them out there! – ebay?
I need (would like) a few more tools and some materials but I don’t want to buy them until I have work and or a plan to sell some stuff I can make. I think about 3-5k would do it.
I know I am a little spread out right now ( too many ideas) as far as a direction which is making it harder to decide what it is I really want to do. I do know if I do nothing – nothing is going to happen. I just don’t want to put all my eggs in one basket either.
Any sage advice anyone wants to impart I would be most appreciative. You may tell it like it is.
Thank you all,
DF
Replies
2 bits from me.
Getting started now..............take anything you can get your hands on even if it a couple of hours in a day or a few days in a week.
Hang on to your cash.
In your position I would seriously consider heading down there.
Can you still collect SS if you leave the country?
"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." — Sherlock Holmes, 1896
"Can you still collect SS if you leave the country?"
I believe I can but it will be reduced now that I am not paying in. How much I don't know yet. I bet there is some calculation that cuts it if half or some #### if you don't work the last 5 years. I could pay in as a business owner I believe. Going down to Govt. offices to check on this very soon. Was going to be about $1200 per mo. Enough to live comfortably in the 3rd world ( as long as the dollar doesn't keep tanking).
Thanks for the input. Yes I will be trying to drum up work. Any strategies here? I have had a few paying jobs since getting layed off - I need to make some more contacts and believe I would have the chance at more work if I was licensed and bonded. I copy on hanging on to the cash.
Thanks!!
i live in tacoma and the way i find work is walk the isles of lows or hd looking for people who look puzzeled , its oviouse , and see if they need help on a project and offer your service , i have cards with name,number,skills. who knows some day they may call if they dont need you now. i also walk the parking lot. i also look at greys lumber yard.
JEJ
Good idea! I do know what you mean about the puzzled look.
Thanks
Do you get permission from the stores to do your soliciting on their property? If not that seems rather unethical, especially if these stores offer installation as a service to their customers.
Umm....he was talking about Lowes and HD. There ain't anything ethical going on there!
Getting licensed here in WA is easy and somewhat expensive, because you have to purchase an insurance policy and a bond in order to qualify. I would check around for pricing before you go too far. Also, I see a lot of guys go for a $300K policy and then when they want to sub for a GC they find out they need a $1M policy.
If you have never worked for yourself the learning curve is steep and the hours are long. If you have a lot of people ready to offer you work, good, if not... not at all good, it can take years to break in and get steady, especially in shaky times. Right now, seems like every guy laid off from a larger outfit has become a "contractor", mostly unlicensed and working under the table. Build it, plumb it, wire it, $25/hour cash. Makes for very tough times if you're legit and trying to break in at the small-project level.
I met a guy yesterday who is a new county employee at the transfer station. He saw my truck lettering and started quizzing me about the local market. Turns out he is a tradesman from eastern WA who moved here in search of better times, and wants to get his own thing started. As far as I'm concerned he is much better off right now as a gov't employee.
As far as I'm concerned he is much better off right now as a gov't employee.
I was going to suggest to the OP that he take a trip to Ft Lewis. Not sure who the contractor is, but there are several big projects going on there now which I am sure are prevailing wage.
Dave,
Yeah, I did work for myself once in the early 80's and once in the early 90's. Both out of necessity.
I didn't do it long enough each time to really get it going. First time I moved, second time I was offered a job with the GC I was subcontracting for. I was licensed and bonded. I managed to find work but not all that much.
I am not sure what is going on with the Seattle market. The guy I worked for for 10yrs always has work, but he said he would only use me as a sub. Obvious reasons here. It wouldn't work.
A co-worker who was also layed off said he could hook me up with work with some Real Estate offices if I was licensed. So it seems there is some stuff out there. I would be happy with a minimum net income of 50k. I made that as a worker bee.
To be honest I would rather have a job, but for a variety of reasons I don't see it happening. Am I being negative or realistic?
"Whether you think you can or you can't you are right" There is some truth to this, but there seems to be other forces at work here i.e. the economy, age, wage pressure, global labor market etc.
Thanks for your thoughts,
bob
I am not sure about SS and living in a foreign country but I think you can still get it. As for your last 5 years. I don't think it makes any difference. I stopped working a real job at 49 and the number they say I will make on my SS statement has not gone down. (it even went up a little because of the COLAs). I am 62 now but not collecting yet because my wife is still working and making too much money. The tax man would confiscate most of my SS check.
If you are not good at the business end and have trouble going after the cash DO NOT start your own business. I know more contractors (former tradesmen who went off on their own) who are always broke, than the number who actually make money. Most also have IRS trouble, the fastest way to stay broke. BTW usually the hardest part is actually getting paid. Bidding and proposing is also a common place for people to lose their shirt. Guys are so happy to get the job, they under bid the price and lose money on it.
My wife just contracted a job (as the customer) and raised the guys bid $1000 because she knew he was going to lose money at his bid and she didn't want him to suddenly discover that near the end and cut corners trying to get out alive. Most people will not do that.
GFretwell,
Thanks for that about SS I hope that is the case. I am actually going down to the SS office soon to check this out.
I admit I am not good at the business end, but I could do it if I have to.
I don't need big jobs and I would try to keep it simple and a one man show.
I would try to work by the hour with a small % to cover consumables. But I need work to do this. That seems like the hard part - finding it. I am used to being a loyal employee, not someone who pounds the pavement looking for an opportunity. That is true whether it is a job or a business. I have some issues there.
I know this business is difficult, but I worked for a guy who seemed to do it with ease and he was never stressed out. He didn't have to look for clients, they came to him. He always had work. Yeah he was smart, frugal and charged a reasonable rate, but he workded 99% t&m. We did some big jobs. 500-800k. Fortunately for him he already made his nut. He did it on my back and on the back of a lot of undocumented bretheren from the country to the south of us. When I started, there was one guy, when I left, i was the one guy. Slightly bitter about it? Yes.
I would like a sliver of the pie he tapped into in my waning working years.
Thanks
Bob
Stuck in Seattle
Just looked up the SS years credits. It tops out at 35 years. Your 35 highest earning years. So if you have 35 years in.....you're good to go. (If) you had some more high earning years you could knock out some lower earning years earlier in your work life.
Thank you!, Thank you! Thank you!!!
and
Thank you again!
I guess this means you are going to Rio!
Partee
Rio baby!!
Might not be far off. The wife has two sisters in Sao Paulo. They are Chilean married to Brasileros. I was there once for 10 days. They wouldn't let us go anywhere without a family escort. Didn't seem that bad really, but I guess it can be nasty in the favellas - shanty towns. Big city - 20 mil+
Maybe I can get a job at the Olympics!
You've got a lot of issues Doug.
The best thing is that you have positioned yourself well financially. If you dont need to pull much money out of your GC business, you'll probably do okay.
What does that tell you? Go read that paragraph again LOL.
So, we've established that you won't be able to pull much money out of your GC business...now the good news.
You are contemplating taking on four new hats: Business, Sales (and Marketing), GCing, and Working daily on the job. Are you really ready to quadruple your workload for something that "...is making it harder to decide what it is I really want to do. ... I just don't want to put all my eggs in one basket either.
Business is tough, when the economy is good. It's exponentially tougher in these times. To succeed, you have to commit 100% and then be good at: selling, marketing, collecting, buying, co-ordinating, bookwork, accounting, insurance, managing, etc. If you are weak in any of these areas, your best bet is to partner up with someone that has those skills and strengths or hire them out.
It sounds like you need to hire four or five office staff just to get started.
I'm not liking your odds.
My advice: head south.
Well,
I would head south, but I have 4 more good years I could/need/want to work - make/save $ before I would be eligible for SS.
The best real plan I have at the moment is to finish the projects I have going around this house I live in and get it ready to sell/rent.
Beyond that I can't get off the dime with both feet in on either looking for a job or doing my own thing. I am being forced to take a hard look at what I want/can do given the economy and my options. This is where I am stuck. The consequences of my actions weigh just a bit more now than even 10yrs ago.
What is going on? Is there going to be an improvement soon or are we looking at double digit unemployment for some time. If that is the case, I guess I am going to start looking at places to settle in S.A.
Thanks for the thoughts
bob
Edited 10/2/2009 4:19 pm ET by DougFir1234
you may also try signing up for temp work , call tradesman internationel or clp you set the wage and hours they do the rest.
Thanks,
I have thought of that and almost hooked up with them before I was hired on at my last gig.
Is your hourly 45 in this market?
I have a friend that charges 55. He has connections and is festooled out!
I would be happy with 45. Last little side job a friend and I did we charged 35 cash. They were friends of friends.
We actually had to tell them it was 35 each. If you know what I mean.
45 is what i charge pluse mark up on materials. i only work t&m . im busy now ,just hope it continues . if you dont mind the drive packwood is booming
Good for you!
What kind of stuff do you do?
I would go to packwood on a limited basis. Can you hook me up?
The company I worked for in Seattle does super high end stuff for the super rich we have in this area. They have a job in Elma I might be going to later but that is 4/5/6 months off. They are still in the concrete stage. It is being timber framed by a subcontractor. It is 15k sqft. one story. I heard it is almost 300 ft long. Lots of pieces to puzzle. I would go to Elma too. The crew works 4/10's and stay in Motels. They are on a budget tho - your expenses are paid so you aren't out of pocket per diem, but you don't make a kicker either.
Guys were reluctant to do it at first cause they had cut some fat cow's in the past - $90 per diem and a $3 bump in pay if you had to work out of town.
The tune changed when there wasn't any work in town. Now most of the crew that went down there is layed off as well. Only the pm, super, engineer, leads and the subs are working.
We had a nice summer around here eh? Sad to see it go but fall is cool too.
Bob
if you want to call randel woods 360 497 2071 talk with them or come on up here you can stand in front of ace hardware or arrow in randel hit the peopel up as they come in . lot of builders will be starting to trim things out soon if not right now . im a one man show ,but will help you out what i can. if you decide to come up well take a hike and talk some on getting a game plan . im a journeyman plumber but can do most anything . think about it let me know jeff 360 494 2500 or 253 566 9205
Hi J, can I call you J? J is for ?
Thanks, I was going to give you a ring today but I was out enjoying the last bits of sun - riding around Vashon on my motorcycle (my other passion). You can email me at [email protected]. (so we don't bore others reading this)
I checked mileage and Packwood is about 90mi from my house - over Rainier route.
So you do mostly plumbing or a little bit of everything?
A hike sounds like an idea. I must say hiking is one of the benefits of not having work. I have been doing a fair bit of it up in this neck of the woods lately. I did some around Goat Rocks, i think it was, years back. I used to belong to the Mountaineers (seattle). Did lots of backpacking, scrambling and climbing but the old bones(lungs) don't get up and down the mountain like they used to. Don't like carrying all the gear either - which is why my hiking buddies and I have been doing mostly dayhikes. Did a pretty rough one last week to Gothic basin up by Monte Cristo area east of Granite falls. Ball buster!
When is the next time you are in Tacoma?
Thanks,
Bob
"The best real plan I have at the moment is to finish the projects I have going around this house I live in and get it ready to sell/rent." That should take you a week or two if you are going to work at the same pace you would as a self employed contractor. If you can't get it done in a week or two, you probably better not start your own business LOL.I don't believe that we are going to come out of this depression anytime soon. I think you'll be retired before the economy rebounds. I think theres a lot more pain coming before the ship can be righted.
I hear ya - I don't think it is coming back soon either. On the half full side, 90% of the population is still working, just not spending.
No one really knows for sure what is down the line. Your perspective changes when you don't have a "job" . Those that are working and feel secure in their jobs don't think about what it is like to not have it. Those that feel maybe they are on the verge are pulling back. Those that could spend some money maybe feel it irresponsible to do it now in light of the current situation. They don't want to be conspicuous. There are always those that will buy the hummer during a gas crunch, but there are fewer of those people I think now. We are losing jobs that will never come back i.e. autoworkers, manufacturing etc. Maybe some "green" jobs will take up the slack, but I hear that is overblown. During the depression the gov't gave people shovels, and told them to build a road. Most people knew how to use a shovel back then. Now you got out of work investment bankers that wouldn't, couldn't use a shovel if they needed to. Now, we got bigger and bigger mechanical shovels to do the work. So how we going to get everyone back working? The economy runs on growth - construction. We have a glut of empty buildings right now we have no use for. Hell, I heard where one community in Calif. I think it was tehachapi mowed down a bunch of unfinished houses to "save" money. We have more than 6 billion people on the planet now. It is getting harder to keep them all employed and fed.
If I could do what I have here in a week, I would a superhero. Probably months.
I better get busy! Time is money.
You said it was O.K. to "tell it like it is".
Over the years I've been on BT there have been a TON of guys asking about going out on their own. The answer I've seen that seems to constantly crop up is that it doesn't matter how good of a carpenter (or whatever) you are. If you aren't a good businessman, you shouldn't go out on your own.
That advice seems to hold up with my own observations of people I've worked with over the years. The ones with good business skills hold on, while others go belly up in a short amount of time.
I am with You Boss. I could learn those skills probably, maybe, but I have doubts.
I know what my weaknesses are and I could work on them, but I don't know if I want to be that person.
I kinda answered my own question with the help of you guys on this forum.
BUT I have to do something. I am not getting any takers on the job front, but then again I haven't done a "serious" search either. I am doing what the state requires in terms of job search, but not getting any hits. A year and half ago I got a 30% return rate on my investment on the cover letter/resume shuffle. I got a job doing this.
I am not going to take a low ball job offer for a low wage while i am collecting unemployment. It doesn't tape out.
Do you ride? As in a Hog?
Thanks for the tell it like it is reply - I can handle the truff.
Bob
"I am not going to take a low ball job offer for a low wage while i am collecting unemployment. It doesn't tape out"
I'm not sure what you mean when you say it doesn't "tape out".
I got a job cleaning at wally working for minimum wage earlier this year while unemployed. I made more money that way, and it extended my unemployment benifits.
Plus - I just thought it was the right thing to do.
"Do you ride? As in a Hog? "
Nope. Think "Dukes of Hazzard".
Why do they lock bathrooms at gas stations. Are they afraid someone's gonna clean them?
"Do you ride? As in a Hog? " Nope. Think "Dukes of Hazzard
i get the feeling his isn't from the pre video game era ;~)
BTW... did you find yourself your Daisy Duke?
No Daisy Duke yet. Working on it, but hitting a dry spell. The dating websites are pretty dead lately. Maybe a sign of the state of the economy?