Has anybody had any experiences with union carpenters? I need to start another crew and can’t find anybody thats dependle and has any kind of experience. It all sounds good on paper.Experienced and dependable carpenters that hit the ground running. I mean if you only need a guy for one day you call the hall and they send you a guy for one day if you need him a month you keep him a month.
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Replies
John-
It depends on who you get from the hall- some guys are really good, and some are riding the bench at the hall for a reason.
Also, you'll have a problem if you're looking to use the union for overflow, but don't plan on converting your existing crews to union. They'll wantyou to sign an agreement that all your crews will be union (including subs- though they can't enforce that one so much- just make it hard on you). You'll also be doing a lot more paperwork for payroll- paying dues, fringe packages, etc.
Make sure you know all the ins and outs of the local before you sign up.
Bob
Bob,
I thought the Union Carpenters around here in NJ only do metal studs and sheetrock. Isn't this true?
Joe Carola
Not so here in Chi-town.
I've been doing every facet of residential carpentry for the last 22 years. Most of the time even having a lot of fun doing it.
The union carpenters in my town mostly assemble metal scaffolding in the mills. The few that don't do commercial construction. So many hassles with the carpenters union here we de-certified years ago.
We hired a union guy out here in MA one time as a walk on. He swore he was done with the union and wanted to cross the tracks. Eight years in the union and he couldn't do much to help us in residential home building. Couldn't do layout, WOULDN"T do grunt work, couldn't cut stringer or rafters. Built the absolute best staging I've ever seen in my life! Went back to the union rather quickly.
Definately not saying that he was the normal union guy, probably just got a slacker. Just sharing my single experience.
The union carpenters in my town mostly assemble metal scaffolding in the mills.
This is why I don't understand why Union Carpenters are called Carpenters if they assemble metal scafolding in the mills. They're not carpenters. if I were to call for a union carpenter in your town to help me frame a house or addition they wouldn't be worth 2 cents.
Around here they do metal studs and sheetrock. They would be useless for me or anyone else to use for framing, putting on exterior trim, building decks, installing wood siding, etc.
Joe Carola
Joe-
For the most part, they do only metal stud and drywall, but there's guys in the hall that can do wood framing- most of them moonlight anyway, or were brought up on wood. It's really more a matter of who can afford to use them- the commercial companies can, the residential can't, so it "appears" that they only work in metal.
We recently had a 9,000 SF wood-frame building to do at Princeton- had to look like the 100 year old house across the green, so wood was the ticket. The hall was able to produce some really good wood-framers- better than some of the butchers I've had claim to be framers in the past....lol.
Bob
For the most part, they do only metal stud and drywall,
I always wonderd why they would call Union Carpenters, Carpenters when the install Drywall. Drywall/sheetrockers don't consider themselves carpenters unless I'm missing something. Do people consider drywalling/sheetrocking carpentry? These companies that do mostly commercial work where the use all metal studs, are they considered carpenters?
Joe Carola
I once saw a Certainteed shirt that said
"Vinyl Carpentry"
I thought that seemed like a strange combination.
Jon Blakemore
Don't forget to put up a no soliciting sign at your business first.
I got really pressed for help this past summer and spent some time with the local Union rep.
I know a few of the guys in the hall....some are pretty good tradesmen.
But the biggest problem was cost...after my WC premiums and all the other payroll add-ons, the Union Health and welfare package made them non-competitive in the residential market I work in.
And for small operators like myself, the whole crew (including me) must be willing to operate a broom or shovel as well as saws, hammers and nail guns, or help the concrete pump guy with the hose.
For some, the union guys may be just the ticket, and more power to them.
But for us little guys that pretty much do all phases from foundation to roof, it's not a workable fit.
I had a union crew "moonlight" for me on weekends. Great crew except I don't think they weren't supposed to be working "under-the-table" according to their union. They use to be independent themselves but the cost of be a small operator drove them to join the union and skip the hassles of a small businessmen. The other trades I have hired on my projects have been big hassles whether union or not. Usually only 1 out of 10 laborers or grunts are worth keeping beyond the first couple days and only 1 in 3 skilled tradesmen do I call back. It's like it's always been, the good ones are ALWAYS busy and the headaches are always available at the nearest bar, tavern, saloon, pub or union hall. Paying the union rate though is tough. Although I always take good care of those who take care of me, union or not, I prefer to use only non-union people.
John,
there are some real pluses to union workers.. Let me be up front, I'm not union...
They have a good health care package, they have an excellant retirement (55 @90% of their pay) package and they are required to attend classes to learn their trade in order to advance..
Just like any group of people there are good and bad ones.. however the local union makes it very easy to fire someone who isn't working out..
You do lose a little of your power, but you gain in that you share in their retirement benefits and health care..
Frankly, if I could find a union guy who wanted to work for me I'd hire him in a heartbeat. I pay journeyman's union wages and get help that is a laborer at best.