Several years ago, there was a thread which discussed making a hardwood floor using slices of hardwood set into adhesive with the end grain UP. I cannot remember who did this floor, except that it was someone who posted frequently here at the time, and he was installing it in his own home.
Does anyone remember who this was? I’d like to ask some questions about how it turned out, was it as good as he expected? If so, what kind of adhesive was used, etc.?
Replies
I think Bob Velia(?) had a segment on this 7 or 8 years ago. I do remember them making a grout using fine sawdust and polyurethane. Also cutting the blocks was tedious.
maybe Luvditchburns ( screen name )
Ditch did lotsa endgrain flooring.
got to see some of his sample boards once ... good looking stuff.
anyone seen him around here lately?
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I recall hearing that he was ina REALLY bad car wreck, FU'd but still posted about it..heard nothin since.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Ditch made it to Andy's Fest after that, but hasn't been posting often
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I seem to remember him posting just that once, and I THINK it was right after the fest(?).
Sucks.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
he healed up OK.
was real bad wreck ... had a load of #### to deal with afterwards ... but came out smiling. That all happened before AndyFest ...
last I talked to him he was interviewing to be an Iraq war contractor.
mighta made it thru.
said he told them on one interview if he survived the last 2 years of his life some time in Iraq would be relaxing ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
An advanced search for "end grain floor" turned up a few threads on this subject.
Advanced search is on the left side at the top of the folders.
Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
Could it have been Jim Blodgett ?
Definitely Jim Blodgett!
Jim if you get a look at this send me that email again w/ current info - I inadvertently erased it
Hope all is good on new homefront
Yes, Jim had one with radom inserts in it. IIRC it was "leaves"..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Thanks to everyone for your responses. I did not realize that 'end-grain floor' was a specific style, until I used that as a keyword (as suggested) in an advanced search. I had thought that the poster several years ago was trying a new, untested, idea. It sounded intriguing, though, and I had filed it away in my mind, as something to try. I had never seen one, or heard of it before. Now I read that it lasted 50 years in a factory, that's a good enough recommendation.
I do have some specific questions: What brand of adhesive is best to attach the wood blocks to a plywood subfloor? The old threads mentioned some, but are there better products on the market since then? Also, one poster said that it would be impossible to remove this floor without destroying the subfloor; would it be better to put a thin layer of underlay over the subfloor to preserve it from the adhesive?
What is the best thickness to cut the hardwood blocks? And can squares smaller than 4" x 4" be used? I realize that it would take more pieces, and be slower to install, but are there any other reasons that 4" x 4" (or larger) was used?
For finishing, would water-based varathane work as well as the original oil-based product for sealing and grout mixing? I have never used the water based one, but thought it might have less fumes for an indoor area. Is it as durable?
How about pre finished???
http://www.kaswell.com/woodblock/oakplank.htm
BTW how far east are you in our great country?????"No doubt exists that all women are crazy; it's only a question of degree." - W.C. Fields
That's a beautiful photo. I'm surprised that it would be used in a kitchen where spills and frequent mopping might damage the wood.
We have access to lots of scraps of cherry and other wood, so if we do the end- grain idea, it will be a D-I-Y project. Budget probably wouldn't reach to prefinshed floor, although I know that would be beautiful. We're in PEI.
Bostiks Best would be the better adhesive to use. If you think you may want to someday pull the end-grain out, then yup, consider using a layer of plywood over your subfloor, screw it down and stagger the seams.You can use any size wood you want. Realize larger pieces may need slightly larger grout joints than smaller pieces. I did 1" squares in a mudroom a while back. Largest I've ever used was 6" by 9".Usually 3/4" thick. You can go thicker, you can go thinner.Mongo
HUH?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Wha'd I do now?
Just seeing if yer payin attn. (G)Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
I always pay attention to you. Heck, you have me on retainer as your daughter's bodyguard, so I figure paying attention to you is the least I can do!Yessir!
Thank you for the information. I can't imagine tearing out a good floor, but someone else might, someday. I think it would be good to leave the options open, just in case. At our Habitat for Humanity ReStore, you should see the perfectly good stuff that new purchasers of homes have torn out to redecorate with the 'latest fashion trend product' (which probably won't hold up half as long as what they removed).
What do you think of the water-based varathane? Have you used it?
Re: water base Varathane
I've only used the products of 4 - 10 yrs ago ( most waterbase products are improving if nothing else ) and considering all variables from curing times to toxicity these products are golden
in nice dry weather w/ windows open & fan moving air both for curing 7 more importantly for your health I've put four coats on in one day w/ time for sanding after that first one
i think your polys are more durable but after moving all your plants out and the canary too and the fewer yrs you're going to live & your loved ones too ( w/ application of poly ) it is a no brainereven though there is very little discernible smell have much respect for the material maintaining good air exchange & proper filtering mask
Thanks for your advice and recommendations for finishing.
hannah-- i have seen it as flooring several times in OLD old machine shops--fairly big blocks-- maybe 3x6
at the other end of the scale-- the Cleveland Art Museum has a spectacular example in one part of the building--- very tight---really,no grout lines--small blocks---probably less than 2x4-----------
hadn't thought of it for my kitchen---- but sphere has me thinking...
stephen
Hazlett, I had an end grain Doug Fir floor laid about 6 yrs. ago. Manufactured product, used a small kerf with a wire pressed into it to hold the strips of blocks together. Each section was about 36" long and 2" wide. Glue down. Finish was supposed to be oil from the manufactures polished with a high speed floor polisher. High speed meaning about 5 times what the usual floor polisher gets up to. Need the high speed to "burn" the oil finish into the end grain and seal it. We were unable to obtain that finisher and neither could the manufacturer of the flooring despite repeated attempts.. We ended up with your usual floor finisher and the floor remained "sticky " and trapped dust for the next two years. No way to reverse the oil finish either. Floor looks nice but lacks luster and a polished feel. I would do another one quite readily , but not until after I located a source for the high speed buffer.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
or use a different finish like plyurethene
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
We tried hard to go with what the manufacturer recommended as the finish for their flooring. We used the Fir flooring from "Kaswell" The recommended finish was the oil that was used. Watco was the recommendation. Here is the manufacturer: http://www.kaswell.com/woodblock/fir.htm The floor buffer was to have been one that had 1100 rpm. Complete PDF on install is available at the Kaswell website.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
OK, Thanks for the info for future ref.Watco can be extremely slow no matter what method. I suspect the heat of the high speed is what they were using to make it kick with that method.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I wouldn't hesitate at all in a kitchen. Here's why, unless a dishwasher ( I don't use one, but have one) Ice maker ( I don't have one or want one) explodes, the water shoule be no more than damp mopping. We have no kids, and the dog uses a straw in his bowl.
IF the floor got doused, it would not "Buckle" as wood a T&G plank floor, it may swell and goosh up the grout, but thats about the extent.
My desired finish is Oil heavy, so the repellancy OUGHT to be up there. Also I think a glass or a plate might survive gravity lesson a whole lot better than tile, which I kinda like, but might be too much hardness on the old legs around the stove and sink.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
"the dog uses a straw in his bow"
Got a pic of that?This thread reminds me of a time back in the early 80's when I was in high school I was poking around a construction site that was rehabing an old back street that was getting gentrified. Some of the multi layers of asphalt had been pulled up exposing 4X4X4 OAK pavers underneath. Wish I grabbed a few (thousand).
Just slipped that in to see who's paying attn..LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
"fairly big blocks-- maybe 3x6"That aught my eye! Other than the photo of the kitchen just posted here, the smallest I have seen was 8x8. I'll have to grab a picture next time I go over to the Samoset
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
i have seen it as flooring several times in OLD old machine shops
Here is a pic of an end-grain floor from my community college woodshop - blocks look to be about 2x6.
View Image
View Image
View Image
View Image
View Image
View Image
View Image
View Image
View Image
View Image
View Image
View Image
View Image
View Image
View Image
View Image
View Image
View Image
View Image
View Image
View Image
View ImageView Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Some end grain floors, stairs, and walls:
View Image
Bamboo
View ImageLacewood
View ImageMesquite
View ImageOak
View ImageMesquite walls and floor
I like that!
Pretty darn bueno. I appreciate that type of ingenuity.
I've always loved the cobblestone fan patterns in Europe. How about it in wood?
View Image
man, never seen a connlestone end grain floor like that. Pretty sweet.
rez, That is stunning!Any more info on it? Where when what?
I thought it looked like Dan Phillips' work so i went googling: http://www.phoenixcommotion.com/thumb1.html (Has the bath and tower pics)
http://www.phoenixcommotion.com/thumb2.html (and more...)Another bunch of fun links: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/travel/texas/places/4104526.html
Edited 11/29/2007 4:26 pm by splintergroupie
Dan Phillips. Most excellent work. Thanks for the links.And yes, for the most part, I'm always confused.
If I recall correctly those two pics came out of an old FineHomebuilding issue back when they use to put cool stuff like that in them.
Sometime in those early years back when the height and width were larger.
trez, You mean when "Fine HomeBuilding " meant just that ? Man you are old. ;-)
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I seem to recall that the magazine caught flak for featuring such pedestrian materials. He uses construction debris, in fact.
"...such pedestrian materials..."
Oh my. Flashback.
Back in '95 when I built my house, we wanted 2" slate for kitchen countertops. Not in my budget. I was doing some task and had dumped some excess concrete into a drywall bucket, the next day I flipped the bucket and out popped a concrete disc with a remarkably smooth surface, the embossed letters molded into the bottom of the bucket had transferred perfectly to the concrete.
Having not previously having heard of Buddy Rhodes, that disc of concrete was my "eureka".
I made a 2" thick concrete countertop for my kitchen island, lo and behold it looked very much like honed slate.
Fast forward several months.
We had a Girl Scout meeting over my house, one of the parents who was used to the finer side in life was in the midst of a kitchen remodel, she was in love with my 2" thick "slate" countertop. Running her hands all over it. Caressing it. "Please tell me your source, I haven't been able to find in in this deep of a color...".
A few others who knew it was concrete were trying to contain themselves.
Sure enough...when I told her it was concrete she jumped away from the slab as if it was electrified. And her remark is one that I, nor the others present at the time, have been able to forget:
"Why would anyone...put such a pedestrian material...in such a fine home."
A long story for a not so punchy punch line.
To make the long story even longer, I eventually did concrete countertops for her kitchen remodel. She opened her house for the "parade of homes" and "garden walk tours", and all the attention that her concrete counters received back then is what pulled me into construction.
Damn drywall bucket...
What a great story.
inspirational
...more, more!
Edited 11/30/2007 3:22 pm ET by rez
Great story. It's tough walking point, eh?I used a fancy headboard with turned spindles and added some gew-gaws for an archway over a window seat in my Victorian. People thought it was pretty spiff unless i told them it was a headboard, then their lips kind of curled. I'd made the wainscot for it out of Eastlake five-panel doors discarded from an apt. remodel downtown. The new owner has informed me she's thinking of removing it all bec it catches dust. I told her i'd dump spray foam in her soil stack if she does. It's a stand-off. <G>
But it's tougher walking behind people who pass gas.
Huh, I didn't know Lacewood had that same look from the endgrain..I don'thave any thats not 1xsomething but will have to see what I can see with a slice of that.
The stuff really stinks and gets me sneezing uncontrolably, thats why it's still hanging around.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
I find lacewood to be pretty interesting. I'm never quite sure what to do with it. Too much to me is too much, as an accent it's pretty nice.I was contemplating using some for a cutaway acoustic guitar for my son. Which is yet another thing I just can't get up to the top of the priority list...building a guitar. Not to mention I probably don't have the skill set.Mongo
Don't waste the time on an Acoustic w/ lacewood, it just don't sing well enough for backs and sides OR a soundboard.
It would be acceptable ( and I have used it as such) for a laminated solid body, using 1/4" thick faces over a Swamp ash, or Alder or Mahog. body blank. But a true tone wood, it is not.
You have all the skills to build a guitar, you just haven't used them yet.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Good feedback, thanks!Edit: You know anything about lacewood for a solid body electric guitar? Or would the answer be the same. Not quite as important with an electric as an acoustic, but still sort of kind of.
Edited 11/29/2007 4:08 pm ET by Mongo
Yeah, dats why I said you want to laminate it to a REAL tone wood.
What we did, is....start witha alder or mahog core. 1.125" thick. apply a veneer of walnut or maple ( what ever thickness is easily had, say 1/64TH for example) then a back of walnut, maple, whatever at 1/4'' thick and then the prettiest damm stuff you find, bookmatched, for the front..Maple( tiger, quilt, or curly, flame) or Ebony, rosewood, bubinga, lacewood, Koa, walnut(claro) , zircote, paudauk..you name it..
Sammmich all to gether an set in the vacuume bag and suck it down overnight..TB glue is all ya need.
Now cut it to shape, add comfort cuts, pick up routs, neck pocket, control cavity , etc.
There is your guitar body.
Don't make a plank with strings, it won't work well, unless you use really good stock of the right species, laminated body with either a thru neck or bolt on will stay in shape the best for the long haul.
I'd guess I have made near a 1000 if not half agin that.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
I recently had to move/re-pile my stash of wood still left from my woodworking days. I figured i moved about three tons, which slowed right down every time i ran into a pretty piece of curly koa, flame birch, or BE maple. I could just feel the sap rising as i flipped the boards...
I know the feelings all too well..now imagine moving all that 900 miles from PA to NC ( 7 trips in a toyota PU) and getting it in the "new" shop in January, and April 7 the shop burns to the ground..no wonder I went off the deep end.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Ow. I didn't know about that bit of luck. Fall down six times and get up seven, right?
Yeah, '95 -2000 wasn't anything I'd be wanting to revist..pure Hell.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
I told you, you got skills. A thousand times over, if not half agin that!
Heh. I just had real patient teachers and real good teachers.
I owe Michael Dresdner, Ken Smith, Terry McInturff, Kieth McMurtry, David Bunker and some damm smart players of the final product a world of thanks. And all the other members of A.S.I.A. as well.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
See, you have knowledge and skills.Me? I just have questions.<sigh>
I'm sure that isn't end-grain. End-grain looks a lot like red oak in that you can see the medullary rays. Those slices look like they were cut at about a 45* to the rays. If it's cut a lot flatter the rays become spectacular, but the rays start making a natural cleavage plane where chipping/delamination occurs easily, unlike oak that keeps a grip. Even after being sanded flat with a drum, i've had the rays shrink from the surface later, maybe from the heat...i don't know. I've used a lot of lacewood bec people liked the good examples in box tops, but i stopped buying it unless i could pick it myself. I got a couple hundred feet once that were flat sawn...absolutely nothing to recommend it then.
Yeah, same here. I have a hunk down in the shop, but haven't found it yet..I know that the pic posted was almost certainly NOT end grain tho'.
I also recall that in carving the body contours on Basss' that it carved rather "crumbly" and did not retain sharp details well, beside the gawd awful stench.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Sphere, you and Splinter are correct.
That lacewood pic is not endgrain. Here's a pic or a board showing end and face grain:
View Image
And piling on to Splintie's observations, the below pic shows the grain running a little closer to flatsawn (not flatsawn, but closer) than quartersawn, you can see the diffference between the eyes on the faces of the two boards.View Image
You kids are smart.
I think you meant to say the second picture is closer to "quarter-sawn" or "rift-cut" rather than "flatsawn", no? Am i confused?
Edited 11/29/2007 5:00 pm by splintergroupie
Hannah,
The finest easiest and least expensive floor finish is shellac. I know that you probably associate it with fine antiques but trust me it makes an excellant finish for a wood floor.
It's harder than most other finishes.
Insanely easy to put on and wind up with a great finish even if you can't paint worth squat.. .
Shellac spilt on clothes washes right out..
You can do 500 sq.ft in about three hours and be completely done. putting furniture in place done.
It's so easy to repair you'll be tempted to damage it just to show off.. (use abra- cadabra alakazam around small kids ;-)
It's safe, you've been eating shellac all of your life, it's on the pills you take and the candy you eat..
Got questions? Ask I'm glad to share..
I have seen some nice shellac finishes on furniture, but had the impression that if you get water on the surface, it leaves white patches that have to be polished away with alcohol on a cloth. How could you wash a floor with a shellac finish?
Hannah
Please look at my pictures of shellac based floor. 86920.13 That floor has had my 150 pound dog (who absolutely refuses to clip his toenails no matter how much I talk to him ) {nor will he let me trim them either} running on it for over a year now.. yet it's scratch free..
Water? How about this summer when the airconditioner pluggged up and over flowed onto the floor for hours. You'll note it's not white.. It was nice to get the dust off that spot though!
There are a lotta myths about shellac but once you use it you will never use anything else I promise you..
Can you damage shellac? Sure! but in less time than it takes me to type this you can do a flawless undetectable repair. (to be fair I'm an extremely slow typist) It is quick and easy and affordable. Doing 500 sq.ft will cost about $50.00 yep, fifty bucks! That assumes you have nothing to start with and no experiance at all.
Nobody markets shellac the way other finishes are, but shellac has been used for centuries. Over at fine wood working someone asked how to remove shellac from a floor that was over 100 years old. (It's easy and doesn't require sanding!) Shellac is durable! it's very friendly to the enviornment since it's renewable and not made in a labratory someplace.
Hey Frenchy
I finally tried to look at the pics of your floors. How do I navigate to them? I tried puting the thread # you provided into the seach box and it didn't work.
If you tell me, I promise to always build with sips, icfs, sawmill wood and a telehandler.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=86920.13Here is an active link for frenchys photos
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
bobtime
over on the left side of this page there is the advanced search function scroll down it to the bottom and that's where you enter the number 86920.13 and then click on search.
it pops right to it on my computer. then click on one of the three pictures and scroll through them..
If you'd like to see more go to 85891.1 and 94941.1
Oops I see Piffin has beat me to it..
Edited 11/9/2007 9:26 am ET by frenchy
frenchy-
You can copy/paste an active link directly into your post as easily as using shellac. Do it a couple times and it will feel like an old hat and make things easier for others by being able to bypass the search function.
If you'll forgive the over simplicity of the directions as it is difficult to demonstrate over the internet without breaking things down into minute components.
That and other less astute computer greenhorns may find this data useful.
Begin by placing the moving arrow of the cursor used to navigate the screen toward the upper right corner of the post you are wanting to make a link to.86920.13 in reply to 86920.1
Place the arrow directly in front of that post number about the space of the width of a digit (1/8th inch) It will still be an arrow and if it already turns into an fingered hand then you are too close to the number.
>86920.13 in reply to 86920.1
Now placing your index finger on the left button of your mouse... press down on it and leave it compressed without clicking it.
Now with the left button still pressed down begin to slide the arrow to the right across the post number and you will see the arrow turn into the fingered hand and at the same time the post number will begin to be highlighted in bright blue.
Continue moving the fingered hand across the post number to the right until you have the last digit of the post number highlighted in the bright blue
and then release the pressure on the left button which lets the button return up to it normal stance.
You have now locked in that post number.
At this time do a normal click on the right button by hitting once and releasing it which will open a small window with a list that says 'Open', 'Open in New Window' etc. on down to 'Properties'.
The numbered post will continue to be highlighted in blue as you scroll down with the arrow to the word 'Copy' in this list which will now also be highlighted in blue.
With the arrow on the blue highlighted 'Copy' you can make a single click and release on the left button of the mouse which will capture the desired post number in your browser.
Now you can navigate back to your post you are wanting to copy the numbers into
and after placing the cursor at wherever place in the post you want to place the number you can right click on the mouse which will open another small window listing saying 'back', 'forward' etc.
Now scroll the arrow down that window list to the word 'paste' and then left click on the now blue highlighted word 'paste'.
This will deposit the numbers into your new post from the old post.
This is the same procedure you can use to copy quotes and pics from the same old posts or from text in other internet sites.
Cheers
I think that is restricted to IE.A more universal methode is to put the pointer overthe message number.Then right click and select copy location.Then paste in the message.But you get the raw URLhttp://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=96647.46.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
In <Mozilla there is an easier way.You right click on the link and chose "copy link"
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'll be darned, I right clicked on the numbers and got a window that says 'copy link'.
All that typing for a long way to go about it. At least it's a description of copy/past.
Oh well, life flows on.
be within you and without you
" At least it's a description of copy/past."Some skills frenchy still needs to learn anyways
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Your floors are really nice. While I might not use shellac on this project, your comments on shellac have made me interested in in trying it on some other things, including furniture. You're right, no one seems to be actively marketing shellac, so it gets used less because people don't think of it.
Hananh
OK, Thanks for the compliment.
However, floors are the easiest thing to do with shellac and you can't screw up a floor. There isn't a single thing on the market that is superior to shellac for a floor, not just my opinion but several people have said as much right here.
I apologize if I seem pushy, when I found out how great it was for floors I made it my goal to tell as many people as possible.
Funny how everybody knew that and then with all the marketing hype etc. there has been with various other finishes everybody forgot it..
Whatever you choose I hope that you'll remember shellac and consider it sometime in the future..
Now a-day shellac is normally only used for a sealer or primer. The availability of better finishes in modern times has pretty much relegated shellac to that use. As a top coat it has some problems, most notably, as you said, it's lack of water resistance. The only reason I know of to use shellac as a top coat might be to give an authentic finish to some antique type item.
Nope, I haven't used water-based varathane.
I would think that a water based finish would not work well here for two reasons: 1) you mix the finish with sawdust to make grout. I would think this would swell the saw dust, which, once the water dried away and the grout shrunk back would live gaps; and 2) water penetrating into the end grain of wood does not seem like a good idea. Swelling, and never drying out.But maybe I'm wrong.I would use oil based poly.Shellac would be good too, but I'm not sure how well it would work for the grout part. It might be ok, or it might dry too quickly. In that case, oil based poly for the grout and shellac for the floor should be good.
I agree with your first part, NO WB for Grout.
I don't think Shellac and sawdust is optimal for grout, I think BLO and Poly MIXED is what I'd use for ELASTICITY.
I see no reason to use shellac at all, the grout and finish mixture should be the same or dang close to insure total compatibility, while Poly "CAN" be used over shellac and vice versa, it is asking for trouble in my opinion.
I've often used shellac as barrier coat between Oil stains and water finishes and between Varnish and stain. Applying it over the grout (That is Oil) would be risky.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Thanks for your comments. Is BLO boiled linseed oil? What ratio of it would you use with the oil-based poly? Does the sawdust need to be super-fine for the grout?
I can see why shellacing over oil might be a problem.
" Is BLO boiled linseed oil?"Yes.
IMO, I would not use it this way unless I had a very long time frame. It would take forever to cure as a grout mix
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I've used it 50/50 with sawdust from crosscutting as a test and it sets up to a rubbery texture in 24 hours, a harder tire rubber type in 48 hrs.
I did this about three yrs ago and the shop temps were cold, I'd think with normal room temps, it may even polmerize faster.
Here is what I did. I mixed the BLO and Poly in a cup, I dumped the dust from the miter saw bag on a hunk of plywood, mixed the oil in with a putty knife to about like Pnut butter or bit thinner..scooped it up an packed it a dixie solo bathroom drinking cup and packed it with the handle of said putty knife.
Next day I inverted it and removed cup and sliced the little plug in half..destroyed one half playing around with it, and let the other harden more.
Try it, you'll see. I have no qualms about using it. I also know that after grouting, more BLO/Poly can be mopped on and buffed off after it is soaked in.
BTW, I am going to be routing a slight champher on the tops of the blocks to avoid little corner chips that could catch socks, this will be the top of the slightly recessed grout, which will be scrubbed with burlap, prior to the final coat of finish.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Must be the mix with poly that makes it kick off faster. I would exxpect pplain BLO to take a week or two.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Eggszactly.
I know this has been hashed out before too,but a CAPfull of Japan Drier per QT of anything with BLO will speed things up.
I do often or have often mixed Bartop varnish, Poly and Blo in various wiping oil viscosities , and ratios, mixed/thinned with Turp and or Mineral Spirits to make my own watco/waterlox blends, I see no reason to spend the big$$$ for Tung oil products.
The addition of a smidgen of bees wax is acceptable depending on what one is finishing, a flexible softer varnish is used on some antique stringed instruments, it is romoured that Stadivari had a concotion that cantributed to his works legacy, but hell, back then EVERYONE made thier own, Castle Depot didn't come around till 1850's (G)
edit: I left the typos so you coud read it better
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Edited 11/10/2007 8:14 am ET by Sphere
Okay, that makes sense. But if water from the WB varathane soaks into wood, sealing in moisture, why is the product marketed for use on wood at all? (just wondering, since I have never used the WB kind).
" if water from the WB varathane soaks into wood, sealing in moisture, why is the product marketed for use on wood at all? "Because the government, in all it's wisdom has been on a campaign to eliminte all VOCs from our respirtratory tracts so it is getting almost impossible to buy oil based products for finishes
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
When you make end grain blocks, you essentially have tightly packed straws bundled together. This would make me a little nervous.I have always used oil based poly on wood floors and don't regret it. That doesn't mean other finishes won't work, but I'm confident poly will work.
I am pretty sure that would have been Ditch, but he has not been around here often the past year or two.
I emailed him to alert him of the thread.
He's had some physical challenges after a headon with a dump truck changed his life around so we'll have to see if he can reply or not.
Meanwhile, post what specific Qs you have to keep the thread alive. Somebody else may have some knowledge on it too.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I am still threating to do my kitchen floor that way, but have other issues about island location and work triangle to hammer out.
I have decided on Bostik's Best adhesive, and sawdust,BLO,Poly and thinner as a grout. Quite simple actually from what I have researched.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
keep us posted... i have alot of 150yo heartpine 10x12's 10x16's 6x12's that i look at and want to do something with them... so many growth rings you can't count em...
p
Man that is sweet stuff!
I'll be staying at 4x6 The max I can saw with my Bosch 12", and 4x4 blocks.
You need a sliding table on a BIG band saw to cut them there.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
a guy here with a bandsaw mill told me about a year ago he could do it...
what about slab thickness? for a table i could see 3.5... to 5" for a floor? what?
i don't have a clue
thanks
p
I've allowed by setting my doors and such an inch and a half up.
I figgure the checking won't be too severe at that thickness and yield should be good from each cant I get.
I'll be mixing Cherry and White/red oak, I hope in a pleasing pattern(G).Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
git a bigger saw
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
End grain flooring featured in mainly industrial sites,factories,etc.The Caterpillar Tractor Co. were big users of this type of flooring.The pieces would be impregnated with creosote,then laid onto a concrete base,which had been sprayed with molten pitch.It was left untreated.Any damage to the floor,'dropped castings etc' could be left, as it would usually close up due to the moisture content,more serious damage was also easily repaired.I have seen pictures of 'finished' end grain flooring and it's worth 'Googling' to find out how it's been grouted/finished,it really is an unusually nice floor.
End Grain Flooring Tiles
Hey....Piffin alerted me to this thread....thanks Pif.
Anyway, Hannah, I did a fair amount of endgrainers before my accident. You'll wanna use Bostiks Best adhesive and 3/8 X 3/8 trowel. I did a lot of pattern work using different species.
Hey, there he is!How's health?
There is a rumour that you are lost in OZ or Wonderland with lions and tigers and bears, Oh my!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hey...not really lost...been riding my Harley sidecar rig with my dog Rusty since late June. Thanks for the wake-up call!!
We are exploring the Cali. central coast right now.
Cool!
Does he let you drive when he gets tired?;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks for your reply, and thanks to Piffin for finding you.
One other question I just thought of: what is the best way to sand end grain? Does it require a big heavy sander, such as you rent for refinishing? And what kind of sandpaper to start? I'm imagining that the blocks would already be quite smooth from the saw blade.
And another poster mentioned beveling the top edges; is that necessary?
The bevels are just my preference, I've not seen it done elsewhere, and in MY install, there will be no sanding.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
End grain floors are sanded and finished just as strip floors are....you won't need to fine sand them though. I always drummed them with 40 grit, then 60 grit and final with 80 grit screen on the buffer. 4 coats of OMU with a quick buff between coats.I always beveled the blocks, looks better and makes sanding easier and eliminates toe trippers.
Ditch, Sphere, Mongo and all who chimed in on this before.
This thread caught my interest when it was posted originally. I am trying to reuse some 14"X3" X 20' Doug Fir timbers from a building I dismantled. I was hoping to turn them in to strip flooring but when I saw the photos and read about the technique I was hooked!!
Question? Since I built my addition a year ago planning on using purchased 3/4" strip flooring can I do end grain with something that thin? I ask because I took a few 3/4" slices to check the grain. The wood looked amazing, tight grain, very old, hard as rock. The slabs sat on my counter for a few days and some of them cupped. So i am concerned that if I were to attempt this would I have to just cut only what I could lay in a day or so to avoid spliting them when putting down?
I imagine I can go up to a full inch and not screw everything else in the kitchen up but not much beyond that. And I dont have the material to go 2" thick anyway.
Thanks for any thoughts you may have if you have any experience with End Grain Flooring please shout out.
Thanks
Jim
Bump.
snorK*Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. [Theodore Roosevelt]
Yeah, yeah, yeah..I'm still collecting the wood,dammit.
I did get my cedar for the living room, the Sycamore for the #1 Bedroom..the kitchen is almost last. I have 3 more bedrooms to switch to, and two other rooms to call living rooms, but only one kitchen. LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj_oEx4-Mc4
Is there an old thread on here somewhere that details the splining process for wood flooring application?Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. [Theodore Roosevelt]
Not that I recall, but it's fairly easy.
Use a winged slot cutter in a handheld router or edge down on a table saw. Rip splines from same species and pre stain if the floor is gonna be. If the splines are 3/4" make the grooves 3/32" deeper on each board, better to be sloppy loose than bottom out ona hump or misssed spot in the groove cutting.
I worked in shop where we had a 10" table saw blade the same size as a biscuit cutter slot, we'g groove every thing, and just use biscuts where ever, no pesky alingnment issues.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj_oEx4-Mc4
Edited 10/31/2008 6:03 pm ET by Sphere