OK guys, looking for some advice here. I’ll be looking for a new line of work in a couple of years, got some time to prepare.
DW and I have thought of a few things to do, including professional work or getting an advanced degree, but I’m specifically asking about starting a business.
So, to your experience, is there a construction related business that would be worth pursuing? Inspections come to mind as something that can be trained — eventually. I don’t have the real life experience for other areas, such as GC. Got the supervisory experience but not the technical training — which I think is somewhat critical. Definitely don’t have the training for any of the trades.
Based on past business DW has been in, would like to look at business to business ideas. She thought of a signage business, but I’m thinking having a master electricians license would be helpful there. Also, little repeat business.
Looking also to enter a business with some barriers to entry — in other words I don’t want to compete in lawn care against every guy with a pickup truck and a new commercial zero turn mower. Yes, there are very professional people in that business, but they’re competing with a lot of guys without business sense or skills (had a friend go through that in fertilizer delivery). A higher investment requirement acts as a barrier to entry, just like licenses or life skills.
Saw a boom truck for sale a couple of years ago, looked interesting. Don’t know how much of a call there would be for that service, but figure you guys do.
A liquor store also looks interesting — yes, its not b2b but they seem to be pretty resilient to economic changes.
Thoughts appreciated.
Replies
Ken
Each has their own challenges. I tried running my own business and found 2 fundamental problems.. first was cash flow.
Start up costs and intial stocking costs ate up all my reserves and capitol. I needed a line of credit but without a long history and sufficent colateral banks didn't want me..
I've known a few who evade that issue but then the bank owns your bsuiness and winds up telling you exactly how much you can spend and how much you have to earn..
The second issue is at first the long hours and endless amount of work are a challenge and actually fun. Eventually it stops being fun and that's when you can run into some real risks.. Those you hire to do some of the work and give you just a little of the freedom you used to have when you worked for others..
Your selection of people is limited by those who apply and at times that field isn't very good.
Thanks Frenchy,All obstacles, I know, and I'm trying to line them up. I'd like to avoid having employees, but then I really start limiting my options.
good write up. reminded me of the dip by seth godin.
I investigated air conditioner service technician training and employment for a bicycle mechanic friend of mine, a couple of years ago. I wish I learned about that field twenty years ago, when I was young enough to switch to that business.
An AC technician needs to pass a test for a federal license in order to do any repairs. It's required because of the gases used in air conditioners.
The trade is also more technical than most others, not particularly difficult to learn but it does require literacy and average intelligence to grasp theory as well as practical application.
In Los Angeles, the course for AC techician is taught in public adult education classes, free. The classes are either full time, day time, for two semesters or three nights a week, three hours each night, for a full year.
The starting pay for a new graduate from this program is $60K/year plus benefits. I triple checked that information; with one of the chief instructors at the school, with an old friend from the neighborhood who owns an AC business and hires out of the adult ed program, and with another local AC contractor whose name I picked at random from the phone book.
The economic strength of AC repair is that it's a service business which is not dependent on new housing starts or the resale of existing homes either. It's seasonal but it's also connected to heating, which is part of the training too.
BTW: I happened to meet a small independent AC contractor while he was replacing a roof unit on a small store front, for a business operated by a friend. I told him I had a friend who was looking for a new business venture and asked him how much he was making.
He said he was working seven days a week, twelve hours a day, and making an average of $1K/day. He was driving a small pickup with a ladder rack, a locked tool box and one happy looking helper in the cab. They both looked and sounded very contented.
You know, I forgot to mention that field, but I have thought about it from time to time. Knew one guy doing very well with a plumbing and HVAC business.Knew another who got a job with the airlines rather than stay in it. I have watched for the classes with the community colleges before, I'll start that up again. Passing tests is one of my strong suits. Actually doing the work, well....
Hi Ken,
Well, I have been facing what you are describing. Going to grad school, still trying to run my business and face all the challenges of a failing economy and yet have no real large amounts of capital to get into anything else.
I really don't have any answers but I can always try to share what I have been doing and what works and what doesn't if you are interested?
Mike
The problem with this willy nilly approach is that no one is thinking about what inspires them.Follow the heart and the heart will lead you to success. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Jim,
I don't know about that...I have been following my heart for years and not making any money!!! :)
I guess you could say I am "happy" but that changes when the wife asks why I haven't brought home a paycheck in 4 weeks!
Mike
Hi Jim,Trying to avoid the willy nilly, that's why I'm thinking ahead. Also, if I find a good idea that matches my wants and desires, that's even better :-)If this discussion had stayed in the tavern I'd share some of those ideas.
"Also, if I find a good idea that matches my wants and desires, that's even better :-)"That's the approach that I'm suggesting. Instead of searching around for a new business that fits your technical needs, find something that inspires and thrills you, then develop a business plan around those emotional feelings. The difference will be happiness and contentness vs the drudgery of a job. Usually, the business that excites you every morning will make you far more money than the one you chain yourself too because you are disciplined. So, rather than exploring possible businesses, you should be asking yourself "what do I really like, want, love to do every day for the rest of my life?" When you make your list, you will find your business. When you develop your business plan around the things you love to do, you'll never work another day in your life. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Blue
I tried that approach early in my life.. (Follow your heart) what I found is that my heart didn't want to make a decent living.. it wanted to play.. So I followed that and found out that if I worked real hard at what my heart wanted I could make a living,, barely*.. However if I did what I was good at I could make a good living and still retain that which my heart wanted.
* however hard work in that field wound up costing me that which my heart really wanted..
The problem with this willy nilly approach is that no one is thinking about what inspires them.
Follow the heart and the heart will lead you to success.
Jim,
Once in a while you come across as presumptuous and arrogant. I believe that your good intentions would be better served by choosing your words more carefully.
Ken asked for suggestions which fit certain criteria. That's not a "willy nilly approach". The answers he's received, mine among them, have responded to his question with precision.
And where do you get this "no one is thinking about what inspires them" stuff?
What inspires me is taking full responsibility for my life and the lives of those in my care.
I have always had a full range of hobbies which I do for recreation and inspiration. Some of them might provide me a good living, if I chose to give up the joy I get from them as recreation and fit myself into them as jobs.
"I have always had a full range of hobbies which I do for recreation and inspiration. Some of them might provide me a good living, if I chose to give up the joy I get from them as recreation and fit myself into them as jobs. "That would be the route that I would suggest, instead of the willy nilly approach. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
pete (?)
played golf wednesday with a guy who retired at 55
him and his buddys developed Crox shoes
sold out his stock for multi-millions
he was a house painterMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
played golf wednesday with a guy who retired at 55
him and his buddys developed Crox shoes
sold out his stock for multi-millions
You must mean Crocs. I've seen them around but they look very uncomfortable to me.
Like..."That's a shoe?"
"No, that's a crock".
a year ago we were at Fanueil Hall in Boston with our daughter , SIL, and grandson
the traffic thru the Croc store was unbelievable... and for kids, you see an awful lot of Crocs
then.. they also sell "gibbets" .... like trading pins that go in the holes in the Crocs... gibbets run anywhere from a buck to say $20...
man.... !
anyways.. we left there and i bought some stock in CrocsMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
anyways.. we left there and i bought some stock in Crocs
Mike Smith...waiting for the other croc to fall. ~!~
But who knows. Hush Puppies are still around, fifty years later.
HVC: "I have always had a full range of hobbies which I do for recreation and inspiration. Some of them might provide me a good living, if I chose to give up the joy I get from them as recreation and fit myself into them as jobs. "
JA: "That would be the route that I would suggest, instead of the willy nilly approach."
You'd sacrifice joy, one of the most difficult experiences to find, so that you could earn a living in a more desireable vocation?
Some things lose their ability to inspire when they're reduced to money making ventures.
Edited 8/5/2008 9:18 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
No, I mean that if something is really intersting to you, it's far easier to make money doing it. For instance, if someone loves hunting and knows where all the good spots are, they could start a guide service and market their skills to wall street types who want a real world hunting experience but only have two days to do it. Guys like that will pay 1500 to get the real deal. On the other hand, if you hate hunting, you still could make that 3k per weekend by guiding the wall st guys but you'd be miserable every morning getting up at 3am to get the boats and breakfast ready. Like I said, follow your heart. Colonel saunders got rich doing what he loved to do...cooking chicken! I hate cooking their chickens. I got fired from that job when I was 17. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
No, I mean that if something is really intersting to you, it's far easier to make money doing it.
OK. That's a good approach to finding a career, looking for something which will sustain your interest over a long time.
I enjoy working with wood and building houses, particularly for myself. That's always been my aim since I got into carpentry but it hasn't always been financially viable.
Had I picked up another interesting skill set, one with real financial potential, I might've been able to return to home building sooner or more often.
"Follow the heart and the heart will lead you to success."
I followed mine and it lead me to debt and near divorce. I'll keep my day job, thanks..
.
"Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you're in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you."
I'm interested, would like to hear of your experiences.Thanks,
Ken
Aren't you NAV air?
If you got hands that work with a mind, restorations is a big wide field..plenty here in KY.
You gotta decide retirement or hands on now..ferget inspections ( BTDT) , you ( if I read you as who I think you are) need hands on, daily wake up get to, do it.
Got room here if ya need a shoe in.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
Thanks Sphere,Restoration is an area I know nothing about, don't even know where to start.What didn't you like about inspections?Ken
I don't mean BI, I meant HI, prior to sell.
Just a cf of this and that and papers and schedules and lia-fugg-abilty.
I was O3 ( Shhhh. don't tell Buttkickski), and wanted a CHANGE..I got it by getting out andjust playing, I worked for FREE at Col. Williamsburg ( or next to it, I mean..cheap) to learn more..Like just see ing how the hell stuff happened before me. I set my sights. Do YOU HEAR what I Said? I SET MY SIGHTS..sights, vision, NOT a target, a goal..I EN-visioned my sucess, already there, I assumed I was doing it, I didn't try. nor fail..I just did it.
Tell me more than you are a middle aged eyesore up there RI with cats under your belt..screw that..what cha wanna do?
You fess up and TYPE OUT your ATTRIBUTES, Height, weight, eye color..hair color..you got a making in the works. IF you don't RE-cognize ( Re-look) at your self, you can't start looking for what you ain't, and that is the start of what you are.
Remove the variables, first.lock in, lock on..on what makes you tick..we'll go from there.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
This may sound wierd, but Piano Tuning! The supply of tuners is dwindling, and they make pretty good money. There are several piano tuning schools around. I looked at that business when I was forcibly retired recently, and was talking to the fellow tuning the wife's piano.
You may hear that "anybody" can tune a piano, and that is sort of true. You don't have to be musical, as the tuning is mechanical. What you DO need is a feel for the mechanics of the piano, which is wood. And, there are subtleties in getting the best out of a piano which mean slightly detuning the instrument.
I mention this because builders/carpenters etc are used to working with things, and have learned to watch how things work.
Three things come to mind:
1. I really don't have a good ear. I've got a middle of the road stereo setup, but am no where near an audiophile.
2. How much demand/business are we talking? Not being musically inclined (see #1), I don't have any idea of the market.
3. I could see this line of work being clean and comfortable. Not required, but nice.
That's not a bad idea.
depending on locale, I tune organs ( 1600 pipes) and oftenit is easier to re-tune the Piano to the organ, come May (weddings) and Dec. ( xmas) . the nuances of temperature flucuations ( often our churches had sketchy heat sources) will affect the piano and choir..we'd tune to the season, and tell everyone else to match..
but trying to make a living as a tuner? I highly doubt it, the world is outta tune, and few know it.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
Well, Holy ###! I think thats a pretty cool idea! I know a guy that specializes in moving the things so maybe a call to him is in order if you ever got a biz like this up and running.
Honestly, it would be pretty cool to show up with some specialized tools in a real nice case you build for yourself and dress up a bit doing it.
Hmmmm, have to think about this one! Seriously, thanks JohnD1!
Mike
I would like to repeat my statement that a good, reliable piano tuner is really, really hard to find. And, there are a surprising number of pianos out there: Homes of course; schools; churches.
It is the sort of business that once you become known as a reliable person, they automatically just keep calling you. Our tuner is that way.
And, you will note that I live in the Chicago area. Still, piano tuners are hard to find.
And, to reply to musical ability: You need ABSOLUTELY NONE! It is a mechanical process.
There is a piano tuning school in Chicago. I don't have time to give you the name now. I will get back later.
Thanks! I am definitely going to research it in my area.
you might look into Piano Moving for a business. When DW & I got married the cost to move her baby grand 60 miles was $500. There was a smart guy runing the show and 2 lackeys that worked out of a box truck with a hydraulic lift. They could probably do 2 or 3 per day depending on the distance between.
I will say that the guy that tunes our piano through Steinway is one helluva a pianist. Not sure what I'd think if he couldn't make it sing. Mebbe it helps to affirm that fact that it's me and not the piano. Cost to have it tuned is $100 and we get it done shorlty after the HVAC seasons start (heat or cool)
OK, the school is http://www.pianotechschool.com/. There are others.
I don't want to sound like a flack for piano tuning, so this will be the last posting. I gave some more thought about the type of person this requires.
1. Someone comfortable with being self-employed, sole proprieter.
2. Someone willing to travel to various workplaces.
3. Someone who is able to finesse things, not just use a bigger hammer.
So far, many of you folks fit the description fine. But then there is #4: THE CUSTOMERS. For houses, you have to deal with talky owners, noisy children, and pets running around--all while you are doing your work. Churches and schools have talky managers and worse, know-it-all musicians who "know more about tuning than you ever will". (But nobody in the construction business have found DIY people that act that way, have they?)
You also have to be willing to schedule appointments on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. This usually applies to concerts, where they need the piano touched up before the performance. Of course, you can avoid Mondays and Tuesdays.
Income, especially for a person who has developed a reputation, is adequate and steady. DW has gone to bed, so I cannot ask her how much we paid our tuner the last time he came.
If you go into this business, you would do well to hook up with an older person. This could be an apprenticeship, or just a business deal, where you would handle the more mundane work while learning. Our tuner says that this is not an unusual way to do business.
Thanks!
Thanks from me, too!
ken... are you ADD ?
your kinda all over the map here
Mike,
Maybe you know Ken but I don't but thats how I have been thinking about my career path lately. I "shotgun" ideas out there and see what I hit.
Its tough when you have a big decision to make and not alot of background info to go on.
Mike
i don't know ken... he might be the guy at the war college we were talking about pistol shooting
it's kinda like what do you wanna be when you grow up ?
i still don't know and i'm 64
i met a very knowledgeable young man in charlotte when i was down a t my daughters.. he was cleaning her carpets
i was amazed at his knowledge and what a great job he did
seemed like a good business.. but i couldn't sustain it
building presents me with challenges, i wear many hats.. once i found out how to run a business the rewards started to match the challengeMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,
I agree. I just need to learn how to run the business and I might be able to make a good living at it too.
I think thats the hardest part about many self-employment gigs...we can all do many of the things it takes to be good at it but few of us (myself included) can do them all (or at least enough of them) to be truly successful.
Mike
"we can all do many of the things it takes to be good at it but few of us (myself included) can do them all (or at least enough of them) to be truly successful."So, what/who/why is stopping you from hiring to fill in for your weaknesses? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
The incredibly expensive cost of Workmens Comp in the state of Florida!
Mike,That's me. I have lots of interests. Just got to figure out what to do when this gig winds down.
Which part? The career change or the various options?Edit to add: Just trying to cast a wide net over the possibilities.
Edited 8/5/2008 9:24 pm ET by Ken
way i figger it i'd probably be diagnosed add today....
smart enough but just have trouble staying the course.. especially in academia
building seems to maintain my attention because it all comes at you from many different angles
kinda like a military career..... you need the basic experrtise, but the day-to-day challenges are what sustains most
then there are the field soldiers and the pentagon soldiers
btw: i think any service type job requires you to have employees ... one-man operations in service organizations ( like carpet cleaning.... remodeling..... painting )are too limiting ..
with employees the show continues wether you are on the job or notMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Hey Hussein,
You gonna hold that 3-1 lead on the Royals tonight?
BTW how many points you giving for the Pats season opener against the Cheeps?
I'm looking for about forty, we're gonna average 6 points a game this year.....
yeah, wonders never ceasepoints ??????points ???how did that work out against the gints ?i never give pointsMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mikey, mikey mikey, Brady won't even play after the 1st quarter, thats how bad the Chumps are....
On the other hand, never mind my comments about the BoSox, we got skunked by yah in a row.
Mike,I agree on the employee bit, especially about the show going on if you're there or not. There's tradeoffs there, with payroll, hiring, etc, but realistically probably unavoidable. I was just hoping.And I agree that there are various types within the military. Some more comfortable in the field than DC and vice versa.
do what you like and figure it out from there.
Find a way to marry what you like with a need in the local area.
Ken
One final point and it's general as heck but hopefully worthwhile. To earn well you need to do something few others want to do (or can do well) but it needs to be done on a frequent enough basis for you to be in steady demand..
For example there world is full of wannabe woodworkers. Cabinet shops and the like abound nearly everyplace. Thus prices for the labor will always be in competition with each other..
However as someone else said piano tuners are a much more rare commodity and can command a real premium.
If you look through the yellow pages and see a lot of listings for a given job that's not where you want to be..
The more skill that's demanded and the more rare that skill is marketed the more valuable you will be..
Thanks Frenchy,Knew more than a few guys who planned to build furniture for a living in a second career. Don't think any of them made it.Good point on the yellow pages, too. Or online, now, since very few under-30s read/use the yellow pages. That is what I was getting on lawn service businesses.Given the work I do around the house I may take up computer geek. I seem to enjoy it (in a weird way) and there seems to be a market.
Ken, one of the things a lot of people don't realize is that it's difficult to just "go try out" a new job or career.
Let's say you land your next gig and you give it a shot just to see if you like it.
The problem with this is it takes YEARS to learn the new job so that you can fully evaluate it.
The first few years are a struggle and you get kicked around because you're working and learning at the same time.
People ask you questions and you can't answer based upon your experience
It can be a lot of stress.
Yep, which is why I'd like to make a determination, start on any training I can do, and then be ready to go for it. If I've got one shot I'd like to prep as much as I reasonably can.Your point is also taken that maybe sticking close to home with my current experience is the way to go. That's why I've made sure and got all of the licenses and ratings I could whenever the opportunity presented itself.All part of the decision making but wanted opinions here to see what people thought about some other options.
what's your specialty right now?
pilot, one each. It's a different trade than usually discussed here :-)
fixed or rotor?
if fixed line yourself up with an airline gig, even the commuters pay reasonable eventually. Schedules allow you plenty of time to run a business on the side. A good friend is doing that now.
If you're a rotorhead, well.... there's jobs but not as well paying as the airlines.
John18 yrs airline aircraft mtc
Ps I'm thinking I had a friend stationed where you are at now a few years ago in the -56d's.
John,Fixed wing. I've got some options there, for sure, just wanted to explore what people here would consider a good business opportunity.
You might want to contact a local community college.Many of them have career counciling centers.Find out what skills that you have how they match up to different ocupations.Also many have a wide range of how to start and run a business courses..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Fixed wing. I've got some options there, for sure,
You probably know that there are lots of message boards for pilots, with folders about employment.
I've had my PPSEL for over thirty years, owning several planes, but I've never been attracted to flying for a living. Hanging out with seasoned airline types and local instructors showed me that I could easily lose the joy I found in flying, by turning it into my profession.
A few years back I took a trip to Alaska and got several right seat rides in float planes. It's magical, making an approach to a small cove and landing on the water.
The pilots I met up there were great, enthusiastic people. I'd really enjoy flying and working in that environment.
Peter
Maule MX7-180A
Yep, wouldn't mind finding a flying related business, but haven't had a good idea there yet.
I don't believe that any really good business idea will ever just show up in my head, gift wrapped. Even the guys who began dot coms were working in the field...before the pieces of the puzzle came into focus. Then they needed to take charge of the puzzle and correctly visualize it's solution...in a timely manner.
Some types of lucrative businesses are easy to appreciate, learn and replicate, like the AC service business I proposed earlier in this thread. But it requires a period of study in a shop/classroom before learning the business side of the equation while working for a successful contractor.
On my list of secure, high paying, low investment, service related businesses, I place this minimally technical, physically easy type of work, at the top. For the amount of time and money spent on the required education, there's nothing else which compares to AC service, at that level of income.
P.S. If you want good information about flying jobs, from pilots who are currently working, Google up a message board or two which relates to the specific type of job that interests you. There are numerous good resources on the net.
Edited 8/7/2008 12:47 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Hudson Valley Carpenter,
i have a son i am actually trying to interest in HVAC (youngest) son-went to college last year---did very well the first semester--lost all interest in it the second semester( he has NEVER liked schooldiscovered he actually LIKES earning money----and wonder of wonders---doesn't particularly like spending money( THAT's a killer combo Right there!)
anyhow---he is enjoying working for a landscaper this year---and will probabaly work untill snow flies-----and then there is plowingbut MY 45 year old self sees him doing that a few years-----and then by 30---his body is worn out
where as HVAC SEEMS comparatively lucrative----and comparatively clean with minimal heavy lifting?both of us agree that roofing/carpentry isn't for himbest of all----one of his closest friends works for the family business--which happens to be one of the areas largest hvac companies
stephen
Hazlett,
I think the old "what do you want to be when you grow up?" question is bass-ackwards.
If we really want to motivate a child we should be asking him/her, "what kind of life style appeals to you the most?"
The idea behind that kind of dialog is to show a young person that personal freedom is often related to income level.
When the kid responds with things that fit an upper income...nice home, car, recreational toys and the free time to enjoy them....then it's a simple matter to show him a list of the professions and types of businesses which provide that income.
From there it's much easier for the young person to focus on the type of work and the education required to fulfill his financial goals...because it all makes sense.
This doesn't take anything away from a young person who is interested in serving humanity, it just makes it more realistic in monetary terms.
HVAC has various branches, depending on the season, the economy and the climate.
In SoCal, as in other populated areas with higher temperatures, air conditioning service work is considered to be separate from new installations.
That gives AC service techs several advantages.
1. Not much heavy work, just diagnosing and repairing existing AC units.
2. AC is mostly seasonal so there's more opportunity for lengthy vacations and/or recreation, off season. Of course, an AC tech also has the training to repair heating units so he has the option of working year round too.
3. The demand for licensed AC service techs is high so the pay is at the top of the ladder, right up there with elevator service techs.
IMO, when counseling a young person about career opportunities, it's important to work out a sample budget which shows fixed costs for housing, transportation, food, clothing. This makes it clear how important it is to have significant extra income (discretionary income) to provide for dream vacations and recreation.
I completely agree with your 45yr old concerns for physical wear and tear, and long term job security.
Looking back, I can see that if I'd made a few better choices, I'd have had many more opportunities to enjoy physical challeges in recreation, instead of pushing my body to work hard for 10-12 hrs a day, earning only enough to live about one half of a great life.
Edited 8/8/2008 7:03 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Fixed wing right?
I thought all you guys made O-6 and then retired so you could drive your corvette to the club for golf in the morning and then took the much younger trophy wife to dinner?
All kidding aside,
A friend of my wife's is married to a guy who owns three Serv-Pro franchises. They do mostly fire and water damage restoration.
I seem to remember the buy-in being a little on the high side. On the other hand, it is a "Business". Not a job you own.
This guy couldn't tell you which end of a hammer to grab, but he is doing very well with his business.
On a smaller scale, I needed a bathtub refinished. A fiberglass one piece. saw a few franchises that do it, but couldn't find one within 100 miles of me.
Might be worth a look.
I've got my TSP at the Max and I'm doing better than I expected. My current retirement plan involves a Corvette, Shorts and a strip club. Patron, not owner.
Edited 8/7/2008 11:51 am ET by robert
BTW from the 800 got junk website." I understand that the minimum investment is $90K.""This guy couldn't tell you which end of a hammer to grab, but he is doing very well with his business."From what I have seen from the painting and handyman service websites that is common.What they sell is mangagement systems and advertising. They might provide some technical training, but that is secondary and for the employees and not the owner..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
What they sell is mangagement systems and advertising. They might provide some technical training, but that is secondary and for the employees and not the owner
I can't speak for the OP, but for most of us here the jump from a guy with skills and a job to a guy who runs a business is the greatest leap of all.
I'm thinking that a lot of guys here if they were honest with themselves would gladly fork over $75K for a proven system.
It's that question so many struggle with and eventually find to be their downfall
"Do I want to be a (insert type of trade person here), or do I want to run a business?"
Had I listened to my father and forgotten my desire to be a carpenter and focused on running a business (he and I discussed several opportunities when they were relatively new ideas, Each one proven later to be a homerun type idea) i would still be in bussiness and probably enjoying the fruits if my labor.
I can't speak for the OP, but for most of us here the jump from a guy with skills and a job to a guy who runs a business is the greatest leap of all.
That's a key point. I think it's sad that our public education system doesn't provide a series of high school courses for those interested in owning and running a small business.
Had a friend who was part owner in that fun type of business for a while. He said it was way more headache than he ever needed and sold out.
Ken,
IF you have most likely you aren't talking to the airlines.. right now corporate pays a lot better andwith a lot less hassle.
Friend of mine watched his sone get all the tickets plus the required time spent over $100,000 doing so.. Finally got a chance to fly commuter for one of the feeder airlines..
He's making under $20,000 a year which doesn't do much to reducing his student loan debt nor does it give him reliable transportation.. The next late/no show because his car breaks down will cost him his career..
My daughter went to college to work for the airlines, Earned a 4 year degree in airline management and now a little more than a year later she's looking into going into nursing.. The airline she's worked for loves her and the work she does but her pay is just now approaching what a decent waitress earns.. Plus they recently were acquired by Delta and once that goes thru she'll have to move to Atlanta if she wants to keep working..
Airline gigs sux right now!
>He's making under $20,000 a year which <
and what's his pay go to when he gets to one of the majors? certainly not $20k. gotta look further ahead than that.
Edited 8/6/2008 7:14 pm ET by john7g
John
That's what is so wrong right now!
Nearly 50 pilots are hired for every one who makes it to the left seat.
It could take a decade or more to get to that point and at that point he's only earning $45,000 a year. Those hired today won't make the $250,000 a year they pay international pilots with enough senority. Projections stop at about $175,000, pay cut backs are the norm in the airlines but again the weed out process keeps working..
You'd be surprised at how minor a infraction will ground a pilot and put an end to his career. Three late for briefings if you are written up ends it.. That doesn't mean you miss the flight or anything but are simply stuck in traffic and miss by a little bit and you've got strike one.
I could go on and bore you with full details of the weed out process. But to get the details exactly right I should have my daughter do it.. I took a close look at it post Vietnam and the process was brutal then. Today with airlines posting losses instead of profits its far tougher and easier to be the focus of something career ending..
Once the airlines fire someone you might get a job Flying dog food in Alaska or working for a misonary group. None of which pays well..
friends son did it in 2 years, just hired with Delta few months ago the choices open to his class were 767 copilot intnl routes from JFK or domestic -88 copliot. the 767 seats were gone before they got to him.
quit early and you never get what you want, You talk about the weedout process and the indidual that thinks he can't do it weeds himeself out first.
You don't have to bore me with the details. I know airlines, I worked for one for 18 years, friend who's son just got hired, retired from Intnl Capt, many others fly for airlines (one was a union leader (not top dog) for your DDs company). Not one of the active pilots has real complaints about the job.
Once you're in it's hard to get fired unless you're too lazy to do your job, lose your med (they have insurance policies for that), or have drinking or drug problems.
not sure why I even responded to you, Frenchy, since discussing things with you is such a waste of time becasue you know it all.
John
No I don't know it all. What I do know is My daughter has to report pilots on a regular basis for failure to take flights when they are on call. (she's a schedular for Northwest) I don't know what happens at that point but I doubt it's good..
Further Delta just acquired Northwest. New hires are on that second tier pay schedule.
I looked into it decades ago and choose not to go that way. I had over 1000 hr's of multi engine experiance and they told me then that with the flood of pilots post Vietnam I could expect a very long time before I would be scheduled regularly (they didn't have feeder airlines then) At the time they still had a flood of WW2 pilots working plus all the Korea erapilots and that flood of Vietnam Vets..
Today I can imagine there are plenty of vets happy to take their experiance to an airline and make better money that they do in the service..
Lot's of peers went/are going to the airlines. Just not my thing. Corporate has its bennies, but they're much more fluid. Easier to sell off your flight department if that's not your main business. Knew of one Fortune 100 company that did just that.BTW, sent you an email. Did you get that?
Ken
With the reduction in flights, long delays, other hassles, and potential for bumping even Corporate big wigs. There is more and more pressure for corporate travel. Since it's a virtually untaxed bennie and the ease of corporate flying is famous there is more and more corporate flying going on now than before.
A CEO or such earning millions doesn't want to fly with common folk paying $99.00 for their ticket if it means standing in long lines waiting for intermiable delays and flying to hub cites rather than direct to destination..
A company may sell off their flight dept. but then they quickly contract a charter service for the same service..
please resend e-mail apparently never got it.
Resent
Okay...I've got one tip that might help you a couple years down the road: form your business now even if you don't do any business. One of the questions you will run into will be: how long in business? The answer will affect your rates for things like GL insurance, WC insurance, performance bonds etc. Start your business, then start establishing a credit history in your business. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Jim,Thanks, and something I do even if I decide not to go that route.
Even if you do no business, you'll end up with a net income gain because of the tax benefits of owning a business. Choose your entity wisely. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
great idea....
form a corporation or LLC with a stated business of "any legal business"
the incorporation fees will be no more now than later.. and the annual filing fees are negligible
i don't think there is much advantage in being a sole proprietor... i never got serious about running a business until i incorporated and then it helped me think of myself as an employee.... when i was a sole proprietor it was easier to tell myself that i was the last one to be paid
as an employee of a corporation i know that if i don't get paid , i don't work.. so my pricing has to be enough to pay everyone...... material suppliers, subs, and all EMPLOYEES
if we make a profit the owner gets that ( oh, wait, that's me again )Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I think it's much easier to get GL insurance for corps over sole proprietors too. I agree 1000% about paying yourself as an employee. Most contractors refuse to recognize their real value for services rendered. If they really paid themselves a nominal salary for their 100 per week of services rendered, their pricing would start to reflect those values. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
i pay myself at the same rate as my carps... but i get paid for 80 hoursMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I'm turing you into the labor board if you aren't paying yourself 40 hours of ot. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I read about a guy who drove through neighborhoods and people would see his pickup or van and come running
He had a knife sharpening business
People would bring their cooking knives from the kitchen
I heard about this many years ago and don't know if something like that would even work today.
I think they just throw them away now. Reminds me, I need to sharpen ours -- it's been a while.
Something that would work in my neighborhood is someone who would drive through and pick up trash.Trash that is too big for regular pick up.People want to throw away an old mattress or appliance and they don't want to pay the local guy $100 for one trip to come get something.Maybe $25 to $50 per customer would work for 1-2 items.Just a thought
that brings to mind 2 things that I've been thining about
storage units enviro controlled and not
and the 800-Got-Junk business
A lot of people don't have a pickupSo they have no way of hauling stuffIf they do, then our local landfull charges a minimum of $15So if you could go up and down the street and charge $50 for one or two items.Everything we buy at walmart is junk in a matter of a year or twoLook at all the crappy lawn mowers that need hauled awayPlus the sports equip that doesn't get usedWe have a lot of trees with diseases and the branches are falling everytime the winds blowsMaybe you could charge to haul away appliances and then turn around and sell them for the metal
>turn around and sell them<
I was thinking that's what 800-Got-Junk is doing, kind of a recycling process.
Problem with appliances is that they can be donated and wrote off your taxes. Place near here will do the P/U all you need to do is have them sitting outside and they leave the receipt for your taxes.
I spend a lot of time thinking to myself "what can I do to make money"I'm not advocating this but have you heard about the on line dating service recently developed for married people to meet "other people"Someone came up with his idea and I think they said they charge $50 per membership and they have 2 million people who have paid to join.If it's true, THAT'S A LOT OF $I guess I'm hoping I'll come up with something someday that will make a lot of money
I was listening to a consumer radio show on the internet and an entrapreneur was interviewed about his new businessHe had developed a product called "pocket shot"It was a shot of whiskey that fit in your front shirt pocket in a small plastic constainerThe consumer could take it to a bar, a movie, sports, concert, etcFor example you could have a shot of whiskey and mix it with the coke you bought at the snack bar at a movieYou buy these at a liquor store.I wanted to try to get in on it somehowI contacted the owner and he said he was looking to branch out across the USA but you had to have a liquor license in order to work with him, buy a franchise or whateverHere is the producthttp://www.pocketshot.net/home/index.php
The more I think about liquor stores the more I like the idea. Seems they're going to sell regardless of the economy. There's a lot of hurdles to jump legal wise to get your permit but I htink the payoff would be quick. You'd have to drill the help to ID evreyone though, getting the license suspended or revoked would be pretty bad.
I have a friend that opened a liquor store a few years ago. I'll have to pay her a visit.
I like the idea of having a jack & diet coke at the theater and usually just use the smallest bottle they sell and reuese/refill them as needed (how abou that being Green for the environment?).
I came up with an idea & prototype this last year for setting beach umbrellas, I wonder how I find out if there's a market for it and not lose the idea in the process?
I don't know about your beach umbrella invention and the process for getting the patent etcMaybe someone on here has gone through the process and can tell you how it worksGood luck!
Regarding liquor stores, one of the things that's interesting here is you are only allowed to own ONE liquor store.That's what someone told me anywayMy mother worked as a liquor store clerk for a few years and liked talking to the people
>only allowed to own ONE liquor store<
I think that may be a state reg (don't think (m)any fed regs apply to liquor stores, but I may be wrong). I do know there are liquor store chains and doubt they are franchised so 1 owner is my assumption.
Maryland has a one store per licensee rule.
The more I think about liquor stores the more I like the idea. Seems they're going to sell regardless of the economy. There's a lot of hurdles to jump legal wise to get your permit but I htink the payoff would be quick. You'd have to drill the help to ID evreyone though, getting the license suspended or revoked would be pretty bad
A friend of my father used to run a very succesful construction services company. Clean-up and backhoes and fork lifts on one of the biggest jobs I've ever seen anywhere. A few smaller ones too.
In the late 80's when things started to look bad he sold out, took all his money and bought two Liquor stores.
He's never looked back.
In his words, "Good times or bad people come buy booze. Sometimes they pay with $20 bills and sometimes with handfulls of Quarters. Either way, they buy"
He is currently consolidating into one large store.
The license is one factor, the other is rents for worthwhile locations. A liquor store is one of those things where you need to be in a convenient location.
The payoff wasn't quick, but it appears to have been large.
robert
I'm courious about your assertion.. I've seen a fair number of liquor stores go out of business. It might be the wrong location, wrong product mix, or wrong employees. But it would seem to me to be as risky as any other retail business. Perhaps more so since stealing from liquor stores seems far more common than holding up dress shops or drug stores..
One of the problems with liquor stores is owner burnout. They become slaves to the store and always have to be there. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
One thing I was told:
It's hard to get managers you can trust in that business and being away for too long isn't an option.
I guess it depends frenchy,
In New Jersey the Licenses are pretty strictly controlled.
And, as I've said previously, location is everything. People stop at the on on their way home. Not the one out of the way.
Lots of businesses go under.
Frenchy,I'm in partial agreement, I've rarely seen any go out of business, but then again I've always heard of them being robbed.Maybe it depends which state you're in, and how difficult to get a liquor license in the first place?
Earth to Ken! Earth to Ken! Time to consider re-entry and returning to earth!
Sorry, don't mean to sound rude .... but, you're a bit unrealistic - and unspecific- in your expectations.
Sure, most of us like the idea of sitting back, and watching the worry-free money roll in - but that's not what it's all about.
The first thing I learned at Fort Knox was: lead by example. Don't ask folks to do what you are unable or unwilling to do. In construction, this means: don't inspect what you can't build.
"Doing," in this case, means 'learning,' first. I don't mean reading a book, either. There's a reason they're called 'skilled' trades, and each takes several years of training, before you're really ready to start learning.
That's why some fields have 'barriers.' Not to shelter you from competition, but to try to ensure that you have the ability to do the job.
If, at the end of the day, you like to be able to point to something real, and say "I did THAT today," then there is a place for you in construction. If you're quite happy pushing paper and going to meetings, if your heart beats happier at the sight of a well-drafted memo .... probably not.
That's the 'passion' the business gurus are always talking about.
In the meantime, there are a few experiments you ought to try.
Drive a cab for a year. You'll encounter an enormous variety of people, get to REALLY know your town, and your incredibly complex tax return will teach you plenty about business bookkeeping.
Work in a mini-mart. There's that variety of people ... and the opportunity to learn a foreign language.
Actually build something. Make a drawing of it. Use it. Then knock the POS down and start over.
Don't expect your desires to make any logical sense. I like running pipe for wires, but hate running pipe for water. I hate heights - but like working from a lift.
Money? Investment? Any tradesman has $10K in tools, usually carried in a $9K pick-up! Plus another -significant- investment in work clothes.
When the time comes to start your business, expect another $10K to go to paperwork, before you can even open your doors.
Income? Sure, it's nice to be in charge of your schedule .... but there will be periods when you'll wonder if your phone will ever ring. While you wait, you'll still have bills to pay.
That's why liquor stores seem to always have customers :D
Thanks,We've had businesses before, DW has an MBA, got the experience on that -- good and bad. Just looking to see what people here think are viable businesses and why?
In that case, you might be operating under an additional handicap: your education. Business schools don't teach you to start a business; they teach you to run someone else's business. It's rather telling that there's not a single major corporation that would hire the very guy who got it going in the first place (something demonstrated time and again by business school exercises). Now ... there's nothing like driving a cab to bring the customer ... his needs, desires, and your choice to accept or refuse them ... into focus. Most of us go through life in a bubble, surrounded by folks - both at home and at work - who aren't much different from us. Again, driving a cab lets you escape that bubble. One fare might be a homeless vagrant; the next could very well be a Senator or Governor. I challenge the notion that any business is just like any other, that a 'businessman' can be dropped, cold, into any enterprise and prosper. Horse feathers! More to the point, every business is about providing a service to the customers; it defies logic to think you can succeed without first mastering that service - and the first key to that mastery is having that passion for it.
I disagree. You can hire good people every day all day. Remodeling is one of those services where there is usually someone available that could handle the field work. So, a business man, could theoretically hire a project manager/lead carpenter and just start sending him out to the jobsites and he would probably do a crackerjack job. Why would a project manager/lead carpenter hire on with a business man and run the field operations? Because they typically are guys that have burned out in business but like to work with their hands and they hate the business side. So, they look upon it as a way to escape the tedium of running the business. Guess how I know all this. I do know the field side of the business but it really doesn't matter what I know at this point. What matters is what the field people know. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Quote of the day: "...can't be done, it will take too long, not enough pipeline capacity, yada yada but yet they don't apply the same skepticism to their own "solutions" such as wind and biofuels"
The places I've worked, you needed a contractors' license .... and, to get that, you needed to be able to prove several years as a journeyman. A firm COULD hire someone, and have the contractors' board recognize them as the 'qualifying employee,' but you'd have to shut your doors if he left for any reason. Mind you, it's the Board that determines if he's "qualified," not you.
In MI, you only had to pass a builder's license test which is specifically designed to help weed out the tradesmen and transfer the building to paper pushers. Here in TX, we only need to "register" which involves giving them $500 and getting a background check. I think this weeds out the crooks and those tradesmen that can't come up with $500. That would pretty much rule out everyone. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Quote of the day: "...can't be done, it will take too long, not enough pipeline capacity, yada yada but yet they don't apply the same skepticism to their own "solutions" such as wind and biofuels"
Some of the reasons business's fail is (1) under financed (2) didn't stick with it long enough (3) got involved with something you know nothing about.
I drive by a storage unit complex everyday
A couple owns it and they live on site in a small apartment
It's in a nice area.
It's an avg storage facility with probably 100 units and they charge $100 per month
It's fenced in and has a security gate
You must have a password to enter
I'm guessing they gross $10 K a month and then pay their expenses
Seems like a pretty lucrative business
But I don't know anyone personally who is doing this and the exact numbers
That business is extremely lucrative. It takes captital to get it up an running. The big money comes when you have it cashflowing and the big national chains will buy you out for the income stream.We've did a little research on this business here in Austin. Here, everything needs to be conditioned space. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Quote of the day: "...can't be done, it will take too long, not enough pipeline capacity, yada yada but yet they don't apply the same skepticism to their own "solutions" such as wind and biofuels"
Several years ago I put all my stuff in an older storage facility out on the edge of townLater I got my stuff and moved everything into my house and found that I now had a lot of spidersI think the storage facility had doors that didn't fit very tightI used a different facility another time and it was a smaller faciilty owned by a DoctorIt was not fenced in and one weekend someone took a crow bar and broke into every unit which did not have a heavy duty padlock
I looked into building a storage unit on the property I own but the county zoning prohibits it. :(
I know a guy that has 100k worth of building sitting in a pile behind his 30 car pole barn. His 10 acre commercial property sits on a main county road next to a large mobile home park. They said his property isn't zoned for storage units. LOL.I'd mention something about how the government is interfering in this man's life but I'm afraid that we arent allowed to talk about anything political anymore. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Quote of the day: "...can't be done, it will take too long, not enough pipeline capacity, yada yada but yet they don't apply the same skepticism to their own "solutions" such as wind and biofuels"
Jim,
I agree and I used to work for the local government.
I agree with many of the "rules and codes" but some of them are just too restrictive. In our area, thats the biggest thing that keeps you from "building a dream" as many of the properties available have a huge list of restrictions.
Say for example the three acre parcel we own. We can only build ONE house on it as its in an area where septic tanks are not allowed on land less than three acres yet the public sewer line is 1/2 mile away and WE have to pay to run to it if we want more than one home on the lot. Urgh
I know a guy that has 100k worth of building sitting in a pile behind his 30 car pole barn. His 10 acre commercial property sits on a main county road next to a large mobile home park.
They said his property isn't zoned for storage units.
Is that in Texas?
No, Michigan. Macomb County. He's running a limo service on the property. He has a pole barn that can hold about 40 limos. He has coaches and buses. I'm pretty sure the storage business would have significantly less regular traffic or maybe about the same. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Quote of the day: "...can't be done, it will take too long, not enough pipeline capacity, yada yada but yet they don't apply the same skepticism to their own "solutions" such as wind and biofuels"
OK. That makes more sense. I would've been near speechless had anyone told me that kind of thing about Texas.
I know they've had a big migration of Yankees there, over the last few decades, but I'm pretty sure they'd band together and run y'all out of the state if y'all tried to change their way of zoning and building.
It's not that cut and dried anymore here in TX. My SIL had an option on some property and wanted to get the zoning changed to allow storage and the local experts warned that it was crapshoot at best. Am I allowed to say crapshoot? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Quote of the day: "...can't be done, it will take too long, not enough pipeline capacity, yada yada but yet they don't apply the same skepticism to their own "solutions" such as wind and biofuels"
Did you just use "Zoning", "Local Expert" and "Crapshoot" all in one sentence?
You are so screwed!!!
I'm objecting to my foul language and political talk and filing a complaint. Mea Culpa. I'm reporting myself now.See ya in a couple of weeks...if you're still here. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Quote of the day: "...can't be done, it will take too long, not enough pipeline capacity, yada yada but yet they don't apply the same skepticism to their own "solutions" such as wind and biofuels"
I know a good, friendly lawyer in Austin, if you'd like to have one on tap. He's been there since the late seventies, shortly before I first met him. Sometimes it helps to have that kind of background and local knowledge.
Please email me his name. Thanks. Does he have a specialty? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Quote of the day: "...can't be done, it will take too long, not enough pipeline capacity, yada yada but yet they don't apply the same skepticism to their own "solutions" such as wind and biofuels"
I think it would be interesting to find out the frequency or percentage of tenants who fall behind on monthly paymentAround here they auction their belongings to pay the delinguency (plus associated penalties, fees, etc)
Thats a very important stat. Also, it's important to know how long it takes for a legal eviction. Then, it's important to know if the legal way is the only way allowed. In some "good ole boy" areas, the law doesn't interfere with landlords booting out deadbeats. In other localities, the deadbeats win everything in court and collect double and treble. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Quote of the day: "...can't be done, it will take too long, not enough pipeline capacity, yada yada but yet they don't apply the same skepticism to their own "solutions" such as wind and biofuels"
There is a need for short term housing.For example if someone sells their house and then buys the next one a month or so later.They need a place to stay short term.It's either this or stay with your inlawsthey are small apartments and you rent month to monthMaybe even week to week
We knew some people went into that back in the early 90s. No idea how they're doing/did, seemed to be a big rage back then.