Replies

1. 
   JohnSprung | Jul 26, 2005 12:37am | #1

   They're not expensive, and a malfunctioning one is dangerous.  Toss it and buy a new one.

    

   -- J.S.

    

1. 
   PhillGiles | Jul 26, 2005 12:44am | #2

   Go MAP with the new one..
   Phill Giles
   The Unionville Woodwright
   Unionville, Ontario

1. 
   4Lorn1 | Jul 26, 2005 07:29am | #6

   The MAP option is a good one. I like options. But one you pay an extra $10 or so for when buying the head.Of the many times I have used the torch heads I own I have only once had a job that benefited from using MAP instead of the cheaper propane. I had a small brazing job that went a bit faster with MAP.For general use propane is as effective and a little cheaper. Some jobs, like using a torch to bend PVC conduit, are actually easier with normal propane. I tried MAP once and it generates too much and too concentrated a heat source. Making scorching the pipe more of a problem.

1. 
   PhillGiles | Jul 26, 2005 08:37am | #8

   I found that as they took the lead out of solder, you needed more heat to weld the pipes together. Propane creates a big envelope of heat and affects a large area, MAP seems to be concentrated, compact, and contained.PS, I use a heat-gun to bend plastics now..
   Phill Giles
   The Unionville Woodwright
   Unionville, Ontario

2. 
   JohnSprung | Jul 26, 2005 08:36pm | #10

   I find that a cylinder of propane lasts a lot longer than the same size MAPP cylinder.  So the cost per minute of burn time is actually much higher with MAPP.  It's worthwhile in some plumbing situations where you're up against something that acts as a big heat sink.  MAPP lets you get a steeper gradient and get the joint hot enough.  So, propane for most things, MAPP only when you need it.

   For the flat work I've been doing recently with meter bar, propane gives me enough heat and is actually a little easier to keep in the narrow range between where the solder is solid and where it gets too liquid.  The technique is sort of like oxyacetylene welding -- you have heat in one hand, cold and filler in the other.

    

   -- J.S.

    

1. 
   4Lorn1 | Jul 28, 2005 04:45am | #11

   Agreed.While I have gone through quite a few propane bottles with the various torch heads I think I'm only on my second bottle of MAPP. And that, as I remember it, only because the first bottle of MAPP failed to seal when removed from the head. Or so I suspect as it came up empty while I was digging around for parts.I usually check for leaks with a spit wetted thumb but sometimes miss tiny leaks. A tiny leak that none the less drains the bottle in time. Usually I can remount the head and whack it around a bit to get the bottle to reseal but some, especially the cheaper ones, won't reseal in any case. Bummer when the bottle is still half filled.Hate leaving the head connected as it is an invitation to a leak, takes up more space, and greatly increases the possibility of damage to the head. If the pre-scored break point snaps it destroys the torch head. No bargain when saving the $8 bottle of propane costs me a $50 torch head. Still I do like the option of using MAPP if it is called for. An option I pay another $10 for when buying the head.

2. 
   fingers | Jul 28, 2005 10:58pm | #12

   Incidentally, I needed to pick up a bottle of propane and the 14 oz. tall bottle in the plumbing section was about a dollar more than the more squatty 16 oz. bottle sold in the camping section for connection to propane camping stoves.  Both bottles have the same threaded fitting on the top.  As an added benefit the more squatty bottle won't tip over as easily.

3. 
   DanH | Jul 28, 2005 11:06pm | #13

   Yeah, but that squatty bottle doesn't fit in that plastic case that came with the torch.:)

4. 
   JohnSprung | Jul 29, 2005 12:49am | #14

   I got the hose and adapter for the 40 pound bottle, which works quite conveniently for bench work.

    

   -- J.S.

    

5. 
   DanH | Jul 29, 2005 04:31am | #15

   I've talked to some guys who used about a 20lb bottle of acetyline (sp?) and a hose. Said it got things hot faster, permitting quicker work and less overcooking. Their adoption of this probably predated MAPP, though.

6. 
   Sphere | Jul 29, 2005 12:13pm | #16

   straight acetylene just makes a lot of black spaghetti, mapp is propane AND acetylene IIRC.  Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

7. 
   jefflitzy | Jul 29, 2005 06:20pm | #17

   a swirl air acetylene torch burns clean and hot and can solder up to 6" copper pipe with the right tip

   Turbo torch is one Brand http://www.thermadyne.com/

    

    

8. 
   Sphere | Jul 30, 2005 12:39am | #18

   Neat..I want one.  Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

2. 
   DanH | Jul 26, 2005 02:13am | #3

   Go ahead and buy a decent quality torch, and one with piezo ignition.

   If you want to make this torch work, you need to learn to light it right. Don't turn the valve on all the way, but maybe 1/4 to 1/2 of full force. Light the torch. If it doesn't stay lit, adjust the valve.

   Once it's lit, let it remain upright, at the initial valve setting, for 2-3 minutes before moving it and/or turning the valve higher. This allows the torch head to warm up so it can vaporize the fuel properly.

1. 
   delice | Jul 26, 2005 03:10am | #4

   Thanks for all the help!  I think I have been opening the valve too much initially and not giving it time to get going before giving it too much gas.   Will give this a try.

1. 
   DanH | Jul 26, 2005 04:35am | #5

   The better quality, trigger-controlled, piezo ignition torches are much easier to use and are well worth the extra money.

3. 
   4Lorn1 | Jul 26, 2005 07:35am | #7

   Check the tubes for dust, crud and spider webs. Clean as required. Compressed air helps but blow out any screens, diffusers of vanes.

4. 
   Sphere | Jul 26, 2005 01:42pm | #9

   I had a similar problem once, turns out mud dauber wasps had it plugged up..LOL

     Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks