Replies

1. 
   jet | Aug 15, 2002 12:27pm | #1

   In Montreal Canada call "Tzanet" on L'Acadie boul. Or is this too far?

2. 
   luvmuskoka | Aug 15, 2002 03:23pm | #2

   IMHO most of these high-end appliances suck! Like designer jeans of the 80s......spend 10X the amount for a label. The jobs I work on use these 'status appliances' most of the time, and the repairman becomes part of the family. Those used appliances which are 'like new' probably are...they were just replaced by a homeowner who is tired of going out to dinner.

   Ditch
1. 
   Brookssteve | Aug 15, 2002 04:26pm | #4

   >IMHO most of these high-end appliances suck! Like designer >>jeans of the 80s......spend 10X the amount for a label

   I'll have to disagree....I've had a Viking 36" range for 5 years now. I will agree that it is vastly overpriced for what it costs to build. But the thought of going back to a tiny standard stove is something I'm not looking forward to. A 30" range is too small when you have more than two burners in use, and I like tha ability to bake on large commercial sized cookie sheets ( I get finished a lot quicker). I also have to say that the oven in my Viking, which is the cheapest available and an afterthought by me, is the best oven I've used.....everything bakes evenly.

   Maybe I can figure out a way to make a real commercial range work in a house (much cheaper) but I think many cities have code restrictions about their use.

   Steve

1. 
   Piffin | Aug 16, 2002 04:53am | #6

   We're all coming over for cookies later tonight Stephen,

   I think you may have been lucky with yours. You are reporting about a singular unit. The stories the appliance repairmen tell me is a different one, and I have to make those phone calls on a regular basis. Put in a good GE or Kitchen Aid and you're likely to never see a repair guy. I can't think of hardly any high end ones I've had installed in the last five of six years that haven't needed attention and the parts are harder to pay for and the wait can be longer. (Maybe a couple Thermadors that are untouched, I guess)

   The pilots on those big ranges can use as much gas as the actual cooking does since they burn all the time.

   I like oatmeal or tollhouse, when will they be ready?

   :>)Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   TLRice | Aug 16, 2002 03:07pm | #7

   "MHO most of these high-end appliances suck!"

   Ditch, I can't speak for all of those appliances, but back when I was in high school, I worked part time for a man that installed Sub-zeros. A lot of the jobs we did, were replacements. 40 year old replacements. All of these old units were still working, to some degree, but had usually become noisy or were being replaced when an old house was being updated. I'll pay the extra cost for an appliance that has that kind of dependability.

   And I would bet you can't find used ones, because people don't get rid of them.

3. 
   jeffn7 | Aug 16, 2002 07:41pm | #8

   If I can afford to equip my kitchen with such appliances, why should you or anyone else care about it?

   the original post simply asked for a pointer, I have reread it and it does not ask for an opinion about the merits of such appliances.

1. 
   JeffBuck | Aug 17, 2002 12:39am | #9

   so U just looking for advice and pointers U agree with?

   Ya come to the wrong place. Jeff.......Sometimes on the toll road of life.....a handful of change is good.......

1. 
   jeffn7 | Aug 17, 2002 01:03am | #10

   I don't believe I voiced any comment about approving or disapproving of any of the comments. My question still stands: if I can afford it, why should you care? Furthermore, if the post asked for a view on the qualitative aspects, then it's fair game... but the original post merely asked for a reference.

   Example: I inquire about the probability of rain today, and someone responds with a diatribe about the effects on climate due to global warming.

   It would be refreshing to see a thread that answers a simple question with a simple answer. Leave the pent up frustrations, biases, and insecurities at the door.

1. 
   DougU | Aug 17, 2002 06:17am | #11

   You want to see pent up frustrations,  biases and insecurities, try clicking onto "scary construction" under construction techniques, you will surly see it there, this ain't nothin yet.

2. 
   Wet_Head | Aug 18, 2002 12:47am | #14

   Pent up frustration... yes. 

   The other stuff?  You do not get what the problem is and speak as if you do.

3. 
   luvmuskoka | Aug 18, 2002 07:38am | #15

   Dude,

   Sorry, didn't mean in any way to offend. I was just offering my opinion on what I've witnessed in the field. I was called back to a job to replace some flooring which cupped after repeated leaks, and repeated repairs from a Sub-Zero. The fridge was finally replaced and the new one works fine. By all means buy what you want.

   Happy baking,

   Ditch

4. 
   RogerMartini | Aug 20, 2002 04:26pm | #16

   Don't know any websites, so so much for the simple answer to your simple question.  But if you want to save money on good appliances, there are other options.  First of all, not only are true commerical appliances much cheaper, they also have a booming used market, and you will undoubtably find a couple of places that refurbish and resell these in your yellow pages.  You have to be prepared to face the significantly different insulation requirements that these appliances require--they are not meant to look built in, so don't try. 

   Second of all, do a lot of shopping, over a period of time.  When I rebuilt my kitchen, all of the appliances were new, but I paid full price on none of them.  The cooktop was pulled out of a display and put on clearance--$100 for an $800 retail cooktop.  I stored it for eight months before the kitchen was ready for it.  There is a lesson in this--good deals take time so start looking early and be prepared to move fast regardless of when you actually need it.  The wall oven was a display item being cleared for the new line.  I knew when the new line was coming in and made sure I was there at the last moment, and got a $600 reduction.  The fridge came from watching sales like a hawk for months and knowing the market.  It too spent six months in the dining room waiting to be installed.

   Moral of the story is that you can use time and effort to save money.  Now you have to ask yourself what your time is worth to you.

   Close enough for government work

   Edited 8/20/2002 10:03:33 AM ET by Roger Martini

5. 
   JeffBuck | Aug 21, 2002 01:52am | #17

   And installed correctly....most used commercial appliances will eat up that savings in retrofitting a residential kitchen to house them. They don't just install like the one from Sears. Jeff.......Sometimes on the toll road of life.....a handful of change is good.......

6. 
   RogerMartini | Aug 21, 2002 11:50am | #18

   Agreed.  You don't just go out and buy one and try to fit it in your kitchen.  It would only make sense if you were already tearing your kitchen apart (and had enough room for the air gaps around the stove).Close enough for government work

7. 
   SydBridge | Aug 21, 2002 05:19pm | #19

   Going commercial sounds interesting to me--

   Building a new house--What kind of airgaps/ fireproofing are required?Syd

8. 
   JeffBuck | Aug 22, 2002 02:34am | #22

   depends on the particular unit. This is really a case for a seasoned kitchen design pro. there are also newer models which bridge the gap between the standard kitchen appliances and the hard core commercial duty. Jeff.......Sometimes on the toll road of life.....a handful of change is good.......

9. 
   RogerMartini | Aug 22, 2002 12:34pm | #24

   Well, I'm probably about to prove just why you shouldn't get code advice from the internet, BUT...

   I believe that the basic requirement is six inches clearance on each side of the stove, plus a fireproof backing behind it such as stainless steel (lots of details here I'm sure I'm missing), plus specific venting requirements.

   My current stove needs a match to light (cheap eurotrash), and if I were to buy a commerical stove I would probably think about disabling the pilot light and just using good old strike-anywheres.  Certainly gives that authentic old-timey feeling.

   Close enough for government work

10. 
    JeffBuck | Aug 22, 2002 02:31am | #21

    right......everyone thinking about this has to remember the bigger and hotter the stoves....usually the bigger the need for clearances, venting and make up air. Not to mention they weigh more.

    I've heard of new HVAC systems designed around commercial stoves. In a remodel, doable....but in a replacement situation.....try sears! Jeff.......Sometimes on the toll road of life.....a handful of change is good.......

3. 
   jet | Aug 15, 2002 03:37pm | #3

   Try throwing the question onto "cooksTalk" under "Kitchen equipement"

4. 
   MajorWool | Aug 16, 2002 04:01am | #5

   What about the "real" stoves sold by restaurant supply places. A 36" there only costs $1500 vs $3000+ for the designer models at consumer appliance stores. The only drawback is the restaurant models use a pilot light vs an electric ignition. I called my insurance agent and he said they had no regulations against commercial stoves in houses. And yes, I'm aware they have to be insulated differently than the consumer models.

   Bob

5. 
   jpamulapati | Aug 17, 2002 07:35am | #12

   I was wondering if you are building or remodeling a kitchen. My wife's kitchen was 60% of our remodeling bill. She has a sub-zero fridge, wolf range, and a fishel & paykel dishwasher. Believe me, I would have loved to find this stuff used. It is very difficult to find these used. I wish you luck in your search. (More than likely, your wife will make you buy them new)

1. 
   Brookssteve | Aug 17, 2002 03:28pm | #13

   It will be a remodel...but I don't even have a house yet! We haven't sold our current house yet. Now that I've lived with the Viking for 5 years I don't want to do without......my wife would rather save the money...in fact she's the one that talked me out of the Sub-zero in our current kitchen!!!!

1. 
   vdonovan2000 | Aug 22, 2002 06:33pm | #25

   Haven't sold yet?  I'd swap out that stove you like with a top-of-the-line kitchenaid or GE.   Put the old one in storage until you've got your new house.  The new owners get a good residential range (they probably don't care one way or another) and you get a good "used" stove you know you like. 

1. 
   Brookssteve | Aug 22, 2002 07:28pm | #26

   Well it's 36" wide..I don't think there is such a thing as a cheap 36"range. And around here it's actually a selling point. ( to me it's a serious kitchen tool..just like a good knife...but to many it's a status symbol) So I do think people care. And the thought of moving it....ouch my back!

   Thanks, Steve

1. 
   BillHartmann | Aug 22, 2002 07:37pm | #27

   My mother had a 36" electric.

   My BIL retired from GE's range division and he mentioned a couple of years ago that they where discontinouing their line of 36" stove.

   One option would be to get a 36" cooktop and build in an oven below it.

6. 
   r_ignacki | Aug 22, 2002 12:53am | #20

   I rotate my appliances as they come up in remodel jobs, I'm also competing with other company personnel, Finally, I got a newer range, replacing the avocado one, when I took that to the dump, I was kind of embarrassed, showing up with this green thing when everbody else was throwing out 1, 2 year old stuff, kind of stood around until everbody left til I opened up the truck cap.

   no turn left unstoned  

1. 
   MarkH128 | Aug 22, 2002 06:33am | #23

   Hey Panama.

   I still use my avacodo stove. Gets hot just like the pretty ones too. Sure is Butt Ugly though.