Using a framing gun for wood to concrete
dotto
| Posted in Tools for Home Building on
I have a few basements jobs lined up for the start of next year and was shopping PAT’s. I have a cheap Remington that I bought a few years ago, but I’d like a gun that is better quality and semi-automatic. A guy at the tool store suggested using the Paslode Framing gun with the concrete nails. Are any of you using a framing gun for this application? Paslode and Stanley list wood to concrete under the “Applications” for most of their framing guns. Any experiences doing this? How do the guns hold up?
Dave Otto — Otto Construction — PA
Replies
gotta have the hardened driver for the gun and personal body armor...
works fine...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
We have one of those cast relic Duo-Fast guns for that...it's iffy. Sometimes it'll sink them,sometimes not. As mentioned,the driver is the key.
I didn't do it....the buck does NOT stop here.
Dave,buy a Hilti powder actuated tool.I've got an old DX350,.27 cal,uses 10 shot mags.I bought this tool 20yrs ago,used.Replaced the piston twice,never let the sun set on it dirty,It's my baby for wood to conc or steel!Have used Hitachi framer with hardened 8d.Works fine on cinder block and green conc.Always use glue.Still like the old standby... pre drill 1/8" hole through plate into conc,4" piece of stove wire,16d sinker.
I think you mean drill 3/16" hole for this method.Lignum est bonum.
Scottyb, I can attest that they'll work fine dirty too. I bought mine in 1989 and I don't ever remember cleaning it.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Yeah, I've used the Paslode air driven framing gun to shoot 2 X's to a concrete floor. It worked very slick. If you ever have to pull the nails and 2X's up, like for removing braces, the concrete spalls out, but is patchable. It was for a housing project where everything was slab on grade.
A hammer drill with a 3/16" carbide tipped bit works well too. A 16d nail and some tie wire or even weed wacker strings does the trick. More time consuming but cheap on materials.
How do you use a nail and wire to anchor into concrete?
If you drill the right size hole and use the right size nail and the right size wire, you get a compression fit.
Before I moved to Florida, I'd only used a Hilti gun or hard nails (concrete nails/hand drives) for wood to concrete applications, but down here many guys use case-hard nails (not sure if that's the "technical" term) for wood to concrete.
On block houses, we shoot case-hard nails with a Senco framing coil nailer. We'll shoot furring strips onto block, even borate treated bottom plates into the slab. I definitely recommend safety glasses, but it really isn't as bad as it sounds.
http://www.senco.com/con_rem/ques_fast.asp#5
Even in green concrete, I don't think the holding power of this method compares to cut nails, hardened nails, or a powder-actuated fastening method.
If you've got more than just a few nails to drive, do youself a favor and get a good quality powder actuated nailer.
Hilti is a good one, but the selection has grown over the years.
I have a 27 cal. Ramset with manual advance using strip loads. It works great, is reliable and the yellow loads are usually adequate for putting 1 1/2" furring to concrete.
You have to take a little test to buy these things (an OSHA thing) but they're worth the effort and expense if you want to get the job done with out a bunch of monkeying around.
Last time we talked about powder actuated fasteners here, several people suggested using Tapcons instead.
tapcons = slooooow but they do = Goooood holding power, depends which you need.
james
Keep your face well away from the gun... ;)
Most of the powder actuated guns come with a spaul shield...pretty safe....but eye protection is always highly recommended.
When I fur concrete block I stand up full sheets of 3/4" or 1" foil faced board and shoot 2 1/4" case hardened nails thru the furring which holds the insulation board firmly to the walls. To make the job go faster I premark on each panel where one 1x2 will fall on 16" centers and set one nail to hold the board in place. I use a 1x4 at the bottom and at the top of the wall and around each opening. To place the precut furring I use a scrap of 1x4 as a spacer at the bottom.
If an insulation panel will cover most of an opening, I omit that board and place the next, etc. When all boards are tacked in place I cut out windows and doors and use the scrap to fill in the sections under and over openings I skipped. Less waste that way.
I then go back around the room(s), add the rest of the furring, plumb each and shoot the rest of the nails, adding the top and bottom and the opening surrounds of 1x4.
Can't say how this would work for the rest of the country but it is great for my area of NE Florida. Sorry, no basements here, either.
I use a PC RH350 and only once in a while have to finish off a shot by hand. If the gun won't put the nail home then it usually ends up bent over 'cause it won't go in any deeper.
In addition, furring OVER the insulation board allows the use of untreated furring which is good for me because I have a source for free 1x2 pine furring and don't have to worry about the corrosive properties of ACQ.
Hey Ralph,You are in/around Jacksonville, no? I think I remember seeing pictures of your residing/rebuilding job in Jax. How's that job going?Your free source for 1x2s, do you have to get those borate treated, or does it not matter because they're inside and not in direct contact with the concrete block? Have you ever done furring on the outside of block for Hardi, etc? What do you use? We use borate treated material, but I've heard that it should also be wrapped. I'm having to learn a good bit of new methods in dealing with this block.
A super caulking gun and liquid nails. Then you can use any other gun to just hold the plates in place until the glue is set.
If you use the liquid nails as the primary holding method, you only need to drive the nail into the floor 1/4". You don't even have to use a gun.
EZ Dino
liquid nails won't make the grade... It's some seriously worthless stuff....
PL Premium....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
liquid nails won't make the grade... It's some seriously worthless stuff....
PL Premium....
I knew that. I just wan't to see if you knew it. :)
You right. PL Premium is it. IMERC, Do we get any money back?
EZ Dino
from PL or Liquid nails...
or a DIY'er...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
I think next time we make a deal before we give the EZ right answer.
We can send a contract to the customer with a non disclosure agreement.
And we only ask for 20% of the savings. What you think?
Is EZier to pimp Ideas then tools.
partners?
EZ Dino
you take the 20 amd I'll go fer the 30%...
total savings to the customer... 50%....
that'll work fer me...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
EZ Money.
That remind me of one big Job for an army base. NJ. We suppose to nail Z-strips -insulate and drywall/painting the hallways and stairways of 5-6 buildings while people work there.(offices) with (centerblock walls)
So,I bought the cheapest gun and only the min.quantity of nails. And 10 boxes of spray cans foam insulation. With the first BUNG the spec's was thrown out the window by a general. He was so upset,he thought we're under attack.
But when he realize that was a nail gun he calm down and ask me if we can have the job done without the gun.
- But the specs general.....
--What specs he said and throw them out from the window. do you see any specs? Sorry guys that you may lose a day but we can't have this here.
-Don't worry Sir General. We don't have to lose another second . And I open the first box with the foam spray cans.
--So, Is that why you start next to my office?
-Yes Sir General!!! we don't want you to feel bad about us losing a day.
EZ Money IMERC.
EZ Dino
sounds like you worked over at MacDill...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
So many places... This one was in south jersey and the name don't pop right now. I have to ask one of my guys. I'm baaaad with names.
Tampa Fl....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Ya. Tampa Fl...NJ.
'bout the same...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
I agree YC. I've glued a lot of plates to the floor as well as to the steel beams. You just have to figure out a way to keep the stuff fixed till the glue sets.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I use a hilti gun thats semi automatic and you can move along pretty fast with it . you can get one on ebay used for undre 2 hundred and they last forever, most come with a replacement barrel.
kennedy nichols
I will check out Ebay.
I like to use the PL Premium as well.
Thanks all for the input. Dave Otto -- Otto Construction -- PA