I know it’s different for different areas. But, could I please hear some ballpark figures for how much you would estimate the following job at:
Remove shingles from a 25′ california cut valley, and re-shingle it as a woven valley. Not adding flashing or new felt, just basic 3-tab asphalt shingles.
Thanks from SW Georgia.
Getting the details right for a wall assembly with the control layers to the exterior and lots of drying potential.
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Replies
No charge. Wouldn't do it at all.
REMEMBER THE BOSTON BATWANGER.
I forgot to mention that it's a 10/12 slope.
Anyone else that might do it have suggested price?
Sounds like something that'll take the better part of a day when you add up picking up materials, tearoff, re-shingling, cleanup, hauling off the debris, etc. Figure your daily rate, add around $150 for materials, add for OH&P, and go from there.
Bob
Seriously, Don't do it. It wouldn't be worth any amount of money. You are inhereting all the problems of the existing roof and could very likely create a whole new set.
It might work out, sure, but really it might not.
you buy the materials and i'll do it in he better part of the day garuntee it wont leak and you pick p the scraps$ 450
these people on this board are really starting to be jerks,like they have always been a multi million dollar opinionated bunch of whatever
ahh to be old and wise lol
yeah right wanna see how wise read the smoking thread or the finally the truth thread
suprised they dont have someone following them around polishing their halos
maybe you need to re-read your personal quote...
So, you are saying that you would reshingle a valley
without replacing the flashing or the felt
and still gaurantee it not to leak????You are the biggest jerk I've seen all day.no - make that all week!
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How come anyone who stands up to the regulars is a jerk? I think your the biggest jerk all month!
He's wrong in his methods and mouthy to bootTwo for the price of one.This is FINE Homebuilding's forum, not "Jacklegs Just Gettin' by" forum
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Pif, I understand where you're coming from, and I tend to agree. But jerk is probably the wrong word. Naive, or foolish might be more appropriate.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Probably so, I don't normally use that particular word, but it seemed like one he might understand, since he used it so fluently about everyone else here.
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you must have better eyes than i do if youu can find the words no felt or flashing in there.This may suprise you but there are other people here that know how to do things correctly without seeking your opinion
59731.6 in reply to 59731.1
you buy the materials and i'll do it in he better part of the day garuntee it wont leak and you pick up the scraps$ 450
Look at the original poster's job description. he didn't want anyine messing with the metal or the felt. You agreed to do it his way for 450 plus materials.Let me make it easy for youhe said no felt or flashings
you said OKYou're going to hurt yourself if you don't read contract language any better than that.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Pif: I'm not a roofer. I'm just a little old glass etcher - but - youse guys that want to rip it apart & do it right from scratch are RIGHT ON! What everyone has missed in the original post is the location. SOUTHWEST GA. Read that "Hurricane Country" based on recent experience. As one of you said - wind blows rain back up shingles. If that job isn't done to perfection, you'll be guaranteed a call back right after the next hurricane! And it doesn't need to be a Class 5 storm, either. Just a darned good tropical storm continuing to carry a name will give you enough horizontal rain to do the job w/o ripping the roof off.That's why we paid nearly $11,000 for a Gerard steel roofw/ a 50 yr guarantee in NW GA - to protect ourselves against microbursts & thunderstorms w/ near hurricane velocity winds. Paid off before we even moved in - BAAAAD thunderstorm ripped through & de-shingled neighbors' roofs. Ours just laughed out loud.It's all gotta be done right!I second the motion - Bud's a jerk.DonThe GlassMasterworks - If it scratches, I etch it!
hey don,all this nw georgia crap how bout se nrth carolina about 100 ft from the atlantic ocean,damn we dont get any of those big bad storms yall get down there
lol your a friggin idiot and i dont give a rats azz what ya think about it
this place used to be a fun place to come to but since they hung the ferns i just dont know anymore
Edited 6/26/2005 11:48 am ET by bud
Piffin Was right - in spades! It's a heck of a lot easier to do it right the first time than to do it over! Especially on your own money.Your attitude explains what happened in South Fla after I left there in 1959 & there were a lot of years w/o bad storms. Then they came back w/ a vengence. My Dad's house that He & I, as a teenager, built w/ loving care to beyond code in many instances survived damage free. His roof never leaked - even after 30 years.DonThe GlassMasterworks - If it scratches, I etch it!
Maybe you want to define jerk since you brought the word in?Keep right on proving yourself, especially in comparrison to your favorite saying, It's not what goes into a man's mouth which defiles him," said Jesus, "but rather that which comes out of it."
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piffin why dont we do this
you go your wayand i'll go mine kinda like pretend that neither of us exist to each other,hell i dont argue this much with my brother in law and i cant stand his know it all does nothing self. deal?
You didn't exist until you came on like a bull in a china closeet, insulting anybody and everybody you saw. now you have a reputation to go with your name as you leave. Goodbye
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I'm a bit late to this thread, but I just want to say that I, also, would love to do the job...assuming that I can replace the flashing, etc., etc.My first thought was $600, but it is steep, so maybe a grand.The original poster still hasn't mentioned why the work is to be done, has he?I really enjoy repairing roofs. And there are, apparently, so many incompetent roofers in this area, there is a pretty good demand for repairs.Now when I see a large project going up fast (and they all do), I just envision myself replacing blown off shingles for lots of money."Nail 'em high and overdrive 'em." Surely there is a song with that line that roofer's sing as they work.Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
Demand - you have that right!
every article I've read about home improvement and remodeling for the last three years projects solid double digit growth in the industry looking out indefinitely to the future.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
BTW, did anything ever come of that coated mobile home roof?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"BTW, did anything ever come of that coated mobile home roof?"I spent a day on it, most of that time scrubbing the coating off with white gas so I could glue patches, etc.I told her that I was fairly certain it would still leak but that I'd come back to take another run at it since I wasn't sure what of what I did would work or not.So she's supposed to call me if it leaks, but I haven't heard from her.Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
Ian,
to borrow some of greencu's phrasing
I simply prefer to work 3 stories up on scaffolding amongst pigeon turds, bat guano and ambushing squirrels---on a cool house in a funky neighborhood for an intersting customer
than to work out in vinyl sided suburbia
to each his own
and to reassure greencu----I have done this thing before---this and worse things---I don't mind---
actually I consider it a pretty easy 3 days work.
working on the ground???amongst yuppies?---in the land of the chemlawns?----THATS dirty work.
Best wishes, Stephen
Mike, what you haven't said is whether this is cosmetic or because you have a leak...The difference means a lot.There is no way a professional would do what you specifiy like that. By denying hiom the opportunity to replace some of the most important portions of the valley system, you halfway gaurantee that the job will leak when it is finished. You need to allow replacement of valley flashing and felts as needed.Andif there is already a leak appearing and this is a fix, then you need to allow for finding the exact cause of the leak. It is not always the valley, but just makes its announcement there.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"It's not what goes into a man's mouth which defiles him," said Jesus, "but rather that which comes out of it."
Hey bud it Looked like mike was asking for reccomendations. I gave him the best advice I could think of. Jobs like that aren't worth any amount of money, customers asking for jobs like that are usually uninformed about what they are asking for and mikes question implies a lack of experience with that general type of job.
I'm neither wise nor old just learned the hard way.
Chill out, Bud, and have one on me. :-)
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!
In valley redos, I've always figured about 40" plus from center. I'd pull out the shingles and lay in I&W shield up the valley, tuckin it underneath the underlay as I went. If I ripped off shingles and didn't redo the underlay, I figure we deserved whatever we got. Otherwise just break out the blackjack and patch stacked seams, upnails and shiners, guarranteeing nothing. If you open it up, be prepared to put in a long day with two men, as there could be numerous causes of the leak and you basically have to rework the valley from scratch, sometimes cutting back improprerly racked or booked shingles and filling in. If you do it, overdo it or it'll bite you in the ####. Inform the customer and charge accordingly. We charged not only based on the day's costs but also included for the possibility of a callback, gambling against. If I laid shingles on a roof, I made damn sure they were bulletproof and priced to fit. Often the customer I didn't get the first time called me back after someone else half assed it and then I charged a bit extra! Still no callbacks and my younger brother is now running my old crew and he would be the first to bitch about a botched job I did at family reunions...
Before this thread gets into a knock down, drag out brawl, I'll offer an opinion. There are often unknown issues in a repair or remodel. For your job, I would want to know how old the existing valley is and what shape the existing shingles are in, is the site easy to access, are there wires, dormers, leaks, chimneys, moss, gutters, landscaping, vents, trees or anything else that may effect the job.
It's unlikely a woven valley will leak whether there is felt, bituthane or anything else under it in normal conditions. In un-normal conditions the water is pushed or blown up hill. Shingles work when water goes down hill. It's advisable to use a secondary back up and bituthane is one of the better choices for your application.
Regardless of the felt or bituthane, in order to weave the valley, the shingles will have to be removed back from the valley about 30" per side. With a 10/12 you will need roof jacks and jacking a valley means planking in both directions. If you are in an area where OSHA regulations are strictly followed, fall protection measures will have to meet their specks. Smart contractors follow these regulations. In some states a contract and proof of insurance will be needed by the contractor, liability and workers comp is more expensive for roofing trades. A lawyers fee may be involved on the contract. In my area there is a disposal fee for recycling the waste. More than two workers will get in each others way but I'd want two guys. One of them will have to be experienced which means you will have to pull a lead man off a crew for the job. Scheduling can be a problem in busy season.
Older asphalt can be brittle. Breaking back for the weave and lifting tabs for the jacks can cause additional problems. The necessary patching could go beyond the valley. Unless the roof is fairly new, the new shingles could be obvious. Shingle sizes or available colors may not still be the same. The only matching color could be metric and you may have standard 36". Your existing roof could be stapled by a mad man, adding to repair problems. If the valley has been leaking, there could be damage to the sheathing and maybe the framing. You could have several layers of shingles over who knows what. There are just too many questions unanswered in order to say, this is how much I would charge without looking.
If the job is as straight forward as you envision, it's probably a one day job for two guys, could be a long day or short but I would figure 12 hours. Part of that is meeting with you and looking at the job, setting up tools and getting materials. 5/6 bundles of shingles, roll of bituthane, misc supplies; nails, staples, blades, etc. Probably $300/$400 in materials. Labor rate plus additional fees would put you in the $2000 ball park. In my area you could probably get prices that range from $600 to $4000. The price would not be an assurance of competence. Of course, this is if it's straight forward, it will be different if there's something ugly up there.
Roofing is a potentially dangerous job and any aspect of it shouldn't be taken lightly. There is high potential for a worker to get injured and for your home to sustain major damage. Jobs may look simple but there is more involved than just laying some shingles.
heh, heh, heh... it ain't never easy, is it ?
<<<
If the job is as straight forward as you envision, it's probably a one day job for two guys, could be a long day or short but I would figure 12 hours. Part of that is meeting with you and looking at the job, setting up tools and getting materials. 5/6 bundles of shingles, roll of bituthane, misc supplies; nails, staples, blades, etc. Probably $300/$400 in materials. Labor rate plus additional fees would put you in the $2000 ball park. In my area you could probably get prices that range from $600 to $4000. The price would not be an assurance of competence. Of course, this is if it's straight forward, it will be different if there's something ugly up there.
Roofing is a potentially dangerous job and any aspect of it shouldn't be taken lightly. There is high potential for a worker to get injured and for your home to sustain major damage. Jobs may look simple but there is more involved than just laying some shingles.>>>
so.. be sure to factor in risk & reward..if you open it , you own it... the profits on a one or two day job can be doubled in liability..
if there are leaks anywhere near this valley .. you can end up doing it over again AND repairing ceilings and floors.. now how much do you want for fixing someone else's screwup ?
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,
allowing for certain design changes( I won't weave a valley, I insist on icegaurd, I didn't use 3 tabs but had to special order Certainteed Classic Horizon Weathered Wood)
from a job done last fall
" Valley repair above right side of front entry
Remove 36" of shingle from right side and 36" of shingle from left side of 25 ft. long valley. Install icegaurd in valley. Re-shingle valley, Remove debris. Labor & materials $760
I did the job, solo in under 5 hours. It was a 10/12------I put up Slaters Jacks and A 2x12 at the bottom of each side of the valley and worked to the top with roof cushions
This project is really not that big of a deal------It used to be my bread and butter-------I enjoyed it as a pleasant day in the Autumn. In fact----I would be VERY happy to do a project like this 3-4 times a week.
Stephen
stephen.. interesting thing happened today....
i got a roofing job that i thought i was the only bidder on... anyways.. i bid it the same way i always do.... figure it out... figure the labor.. add my markups..
the interesting part is this is a strip and reroof with some flashing replacement... maybe 1 sq of WC..
the rest is 3-tab 25 year IKO...
13 sq... came out to $640/ sq...
turns out there were 5 bidders and i was in the middle... they ranged from $7700 to $8700....
point being either the roofers are getting smarter or the GC's are reselling their roofing subs..
there was one guy who actually had the best pitch , according to the owners, he started at $8700... and without a counter from the homeowner.... negotiated his way down to $7700 .... in 5 steps .. and then $6500 if he didn't have to strip...
i gotta wonder what was going thru his head .......Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Hey Mike, I know you like Certainteed Hatteras shingles. I was just down there last week and I didn't see a single "Hatteras" installation. Saw lots of blow offs, though.REMEMBER THE BOSTON BATWANGER.
a stranger in their own land .......
yes , i do like Hatteras.. but we sell a lot of LandmarkMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,
I am slowly moving my focus away from roofing---- the money is the only thing that interests me with it any more. I don't think I have got to $640/ Sq. yet---but I know I have gotten up into the $500s sometimes
I talked to a prospective customer yesterday---referred to me by a friend my wife has known for 35 plus years
she is a research scientist for a chocolate company, from Nigeria, she has lived in 15 different countries, she is a delightfull person and she owns a HUGE 4 square in a funky neighborhood that needs alot of beadboard soffit replaced 3 stories up
THAT interests me
On the other hand---I have another prospective customer who wants a 16ftX20ft deck built approx. 2 ft. off the ground out in vinyl sided yuppieville. apparently I have to draw up the plans, get the project permitted, THEN submit the plans AND permit to the yuppie association review board--------BEFORE I will even find out if I am gonna get to build the thing----------------- I think I will call that guy back and politely decline. I may regret turning him down---but I don't think I know enough about deck building to compete against the deck building specialists------
Best wishes, Stephen
alot of beadboard soffit replaced 3 stories up
Oh yeah, the lovely feel of pigeon and bat guano going down the back of your shirt as you remove the old soffit. The excitement of a squirrel charging out the cornice when you least expect it. The invigorating exercise of climbing three stories of scaffold and realizing your hammer fell out of your belt on the way up. Have fun.REMEMBER THE BOSTON BATWANGER.
That's pretty funny greencu,
of course---ya hafta realize-------I really DO prefer the pigeon droppings, bat guano, charging squirrels and as a bonus---the ever present chance of a 3 story fall-----------------------------compared to yuppies and review boards.
Stephen
We do that type of job all the time. Problem is, it's usually yuppies that buy houses with box gutters and rotten cornice in historic districts.REMEMBER THE BOSTON BATWANGER.
Too true, greencu
However---reading the info I gave on the prospective customer
a Nigerian immigrant, research scientist for a chocolate company, lived in 15 different countries, speaks multiple languages, is a delighfull person and a close friend of one of my wifes' friends-------
not your typical yuppie----I am not sure if she even actually IS a yuppie. LOL
I probably won't get the project anyway.
Stephen
I took a pic of that latest soffit..problem is, it was the new camera fone..worthless picture..LOL I love technology.
I hope all went well yesterday. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
I kidnapped the runaway bride..her eyse weren't like that in the before pics.
They just brought back a load of scaffold and were headed back today. Chileo's got a cast up to his elbow - said he hurt's like hell and couldn't stand to sit around. We scavenged enough off the old brackets to finish.OOPS, I did it again.............................
cool ...I hope he gets my saw horses..G.
Viva Chileo. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
I kidnapped the runaway bride..her eyse weren't like that in the before pics.
Green - Thank you so much for that so perfect description of the job. When I first looked at his note, I thought "three stories of scaffold...". You put it so much better. I could just feel the grit running down inside the sweaty Carhardts. Gotta go take a shower now. LOL.
I know "that job" all to well - done it many times............................ OOPS, I did it again.............................
I have another prospective customer who wants a 16ftX20ft deck built approx. 2 ft. off the ground out in vinyl sided yuppieville. apparently I have to draw up the plans, get the project permitted, THEN submit the plans AND permit to the yuppie association review board — BEFORE I will even find out if I am gonna get to build the thing — I think I will call that guy back and politely decline.
Stephen
I know it's going a bit off topic, but why decline this job?
yes there's a fair amount of work involved before you get to the stage of building the deck, but if I were the yuppie, I would expect to be PAYING you while you did it all. Now if the yuppie in question expects you do do all the prep work for free, and then to compete for the work — well what planet did it come down from?
ian
I'd prefer to redo it using an open metal valley instead of woven.
Lots easier to do,longer lasting job,less expensive and totally waterproof.
On another note,seems like the claws are coming out on a more regular basis.Is it the heat?
Extremely poor taste.
Don
Not a good thing man. DanT