I need some advice on valley construction using Architectural Shingles.
Both roofs 8/12 pitch, old roof 4-5 years lod, new roof to match existing. Valleys are about 18 ft long go almost to the existing ridge. Old roof will be stripped back and patched in to valleys.
Full woven or closed cut? Is one better than the other?
I’m concerned that the thickness of the laminated shingles will cause a bunched up look in the valley. Is my concern legit and if so (other than a metal valley) are there methods or alternatives available that will diminish the problem?
Thanks in advance.
Eric
Replies
IMO, anything other than a cut metal valley is ugly, more so with heavy archies
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I was hoping to get some advice here, and you were at the top of the list.
I don't like white vinyl sided houses with white aluminum covered trim.
But, it is what it is, and will be what the plans call for.
Just looking for other's thoughts on the topic.
Eric[email protected]
i like a California cut
the minor roof turns up and overlays the major roof... and the major roof overlaps that and gets cut
stilletto had a neat method of making the neat-line using full shingles along the valley line
if you use a metal valley .. what will you use for the metal ?
aluminum painted coil stock ? probaly won't last as long as the shingles ( erosion )
16 oz. copper with a V-fold ? better ... but again.... compared to a 50 year asphalt ... what is going to last longer ?
16 oz. lead-coat ?.. ok... now we're talking
but which will look better ...hmmm...depends
i think the old tried-and-true metal valleys should be rethought now that we have 50 year and Lifetime asphalts
and i would never do a woven valley..... they don't look good... they usually get walked on and broken... and they are not any more waterproof that a California -cutMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I'll second everything Mike Smith has said.
Go with copper or lead coated.
Walter
Thank you.[email protected]
i like a California cut
the minor roof turns up and overlays the major roof... and the major roof overlaps that and gets cut
zactly what I was thinking. I was just a bit concerned about the underlaying shingle creating a bulgy bunchy look under the major roof.
stilletto had a neat method of making the neat-line using full shingles along the valley line
link?
Thanks[email protected]
for a link search "valley"We've had a couple lately on this.At least with the lapped/calif cut valley you get a straight line to eyeball, but the extra lappage makes a bump in the roof that is highly visible in certain lighting conditions, and if somebody is stupid enough to step in the valley when too hot or too cold, it will break as easy as a woven valley will.Keep thinking about the metal. Remember that the reason for being with the archies is to look like or to imitate slate or wood shingles in their appearance. When was the last time you saw slates or cedars run across the valley with no metal?Case closed
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Thanks Paul. More what I was looking for.
I can't re-spec something that's drawn, submitted and contracted.
You may not know/remember; these are not my jobs anymore. I'm PM for a contractor now. Until I get a hand on the project going in, I will have to deal with the details as they are given to me.
Thanks, have a great w/e.[email protected]
I've done a few closed cut valleys with arch shingles, and I thought they looked fine. Consider your line of sight when you pick which side to cut if the roof is steep. How many people really look at valleys anyway? I think this is definitely a place where function is more important than form.
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I like the metal for your area, I don't think I would use woven valleys north of I-20, but they are common here on all pitches.
Case not quite closed Piffen.
I would agree with you emphatically that the metal valley is the better way to go------
But
I am pretty sure I have a couple of books here showing pictures of cedar and slate roofs where the shingles or slate courses wrap continuosly right through the valley
yep----here is one right here---Joseph Jenkins " slate roof bible" page 145
pretty cool picture actually
stephen
Here's a few pictures.
Very simple, very easy, and very fast. No cutting of the valleys. Snap a line where you want your valley and run the bottom of each shingle up that line. Then put the bottom point of each course of shingles to the bottom of the valley shingles you just nailed on.
Matt
Soon to be known as the Stilletto valley!;)
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i've used that method of shingle valleys for a several years and have to say what an incredible time saver it is. id say you can lay valleys twice as fast? if not more. thanks for the pics.
I have been laying them that way for about 7 years now. It's at least twice as fast with no scrap and no hook blades in the valley after it's laid.
See You and I talked about a little, his guys do it too. But it doesn't work on all pitches. Somtimes you have to cut a little off each shingle for the required offset in the shingle butts.
It also takes the points of the shingles off, I have seen closed roof valleys leak where they have been cut to the valley angle and water catches the point and wicks back in.
Matt
youre talking about the top of the shingle (the long point) right? i cut the long point off about three inches back to avoid water running from the long point across the top of the shingle and down behind the roofing, but that's on cali valleys which i try to avoid if i can.
that being said i prefer open valleys, but not everyone wants to pay:)
>>youre talking about the top of the shingle (the long point) right?<<
One and the same man. Not everyone cuts them that way, so I get repair calls because the cheapest bidder got the job.
Matt
I don't know if this has been brought up before and I don't have any pics handy, but we also use the "shingle parallel to the valley" sytem with open valleys as well. We just lay a run at the desird reveal on either side.http://grantlogan.net/
Sometimes, when I lie in bed at night and look up at the stars, I think to myself, "Man! I really need to fix that roof."
This means all the runs start in the valley and are terminated elsewhere? How about when you have two valleys? Do you start at each valley and cut the joining shingles somewhere in the middle of the run to fit or run up to the next valley and cut it off there, risking a cut piece of an inch or two?
Do you start at each valley and cut the joining shingles somewhere in the middle of the run
Yes, but only one shingle per course gets cut (and that's a straight cut across the small dimension of the shingle) unless the finisher shingle is too small (6" or less). Then, we'd cut a little off of two shingles. Also, the cut piece would get used in the next course somewhere, so there's next to no waste. http://grantlogan.net/
Sometimes, when I lie in bed at night and look up at the stars, I think to myself, "Man! I really need to fix that roof."
The open valley would probably work better than a closed one. The tar on the shingles sticks alot better to metal than shingles.
I'd say close to 70% of roofs get closed valleys here, maybe more. So HO's think it looks wrong when a closed valley is used. Very few commercial buildings get them and Sheriff Goslin are the only ones doing open valleys for the most part.
Matt
Is it the lighting of the photo or do I detect that the edge of the applied valley shingle is offset a couple of inches uphill from the actual center of the valley?
I offset the valley line a few inches (usually 2") from center, giving water and debris a clear run off the roof.
Matt
NICE!!
My new valley.
Thanks
Mike
Just looked at a new reroof and the roofer reversed the valley order-Major roof first than over lapped the minor on top. What do you think will happen here? Doesn't leak yet, but only been done for three weeks .
Any thoughts?
Greg in Connecticut
Greg,
Not to speak for Mike , But if Grace were used under the shingles then noticeable leakage might take some time to be seen.
It's definately not the correct way- but I bet there are plenty of other roofs done like that too.
Walter
Walter
Thanks for your thoughts. I am going to post a picture tomorrow to illustrate my concerns.
Gretg in Connecticut
greg,
I have intentionally done it that way MANY times with trouble free results
Very common roof here has a main roof with about a 8/12 pitch------and then a smaller dormer with like a 16/12 pitch. I often run the main roof shingles under the steeper and smaller dormer roof shingles.
as long as you weave the top course( and only the top course) on the dormer and pay attention to ridge capping the dormer---everything is fine.
there are photos of the style of house I am talking about in the Photo folder----under the heading " welcome to stephens' neighborhood"
stephen
edit---just to point out----in this case the smaller roof essentially is more of a side wall
Edited 7/8/2007 7:07 am ET by Hazlett
Stephen
Appreciate your reply along with slateman, and Piffin. The roofs are 135 degree angle to each other and the pitches are I think a 7 minor and a 12 major.
I will post a picture tomorrow that illustrates my concerns better. Thanks
Greg in very warm connecticut.
Stephen and other roofing experts,
Here are a couple pictures of new valley reroofing issues, mold problems and rusty chase toips.Thanks for your thoughts. I think the angles of the valley relative to the two roof planes will be more prone to leaking in.
Greg in humid connecticut
Greg,
In picture 3 it appears that the shingles are laid in the unconventional way. Your thoughts are correct from what I see.
The other pictures show items that you want help with?
I agree with Walter - the minor plane needs to be under the major. Moving the downspout might help with the moss problem. Can a downspout be dropped into the lower gutter without running across the shingles?
View Imagehttp://grantlogan.net/
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depends on the difference between major and minor. if the ridges are nearly same height, then the volumn and force of water running is nearly equal on both sides.But if the majo4r roof is carrying twice the water volumn, it canrun up under the lap and find a way in.Same idea if the roofs have different pitches that would effect speed and flow
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Piffin
Thanks for your thoughts. I will post a small picture tomorrow to illustrate my concerns
Thanks greg in connecticut
worth a thousand wordstry to keep it well under a thousand KB tho;)
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I used the Stiletto Valley on my new roof.
After I was done, one day it was raining and I climbed up on the roof and watched the water flow in the valley.
The water flows on the minor roof side.
I wondered how the water would flow on the "cut side" and there really wasn't any water there.
It stays on the other side and flows nicely down the roof.
When you're installing the roof, you apply ice shield first, then the first layer of shingles in the valley, then tar, then the shingle "lengthwise" in the valley, then the final shingle with a squirt of tar applied to the lower corner, I don't see how it could ever leak.
^^^^^^
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