Replies

1. 
   RW | Nov 13, 2004 07:16am | #1

   It will work long enough for you to hang the door, exit, and say under your breath something not too polite. One of those finishing books out there, the guy has a pretty good pic in it of a door he keeps in his house to remind him not to do that. In the pic he has a section the size of a post it note in his hand - a section of finish, that peeled off like cellophane.

   Fixes. If it isn't dewaxed, go over it with that first, a couple of times. Then look at a paint store. Hard to believe that somewhere out there is a place without real varnish. Okay, poly is technically a varnish, but maybe I should say a more traditional varnish. Sherwins fast dry is decent, not great, just decent. And cutting it with spirits makes it level better (which it does not like to do out of the can). McCloskeys makes some good stuff as well. Even Menards here has that. Or lacquer it. On just a single thing, you could even (banish the thought!) use an aerosol can of lacquer and hang the thing 20 minutes later.

   "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain

1. 
   eggdog23 | Nov 16, 2004 06:24pm | #2

   Can you use tung oil over shellac?

   Aaron

1. 
   RW | Nov 16, 2004 08:24pm | #4

   NO!

   Totally different animals. Tung oil soaks into the wood. Shellac builds a film and seals the wood. If you shellac and then put on the oil, your oil won't do anything. You'll wipe it all off with a rag."If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain

1. 
   eggdog23 | Nov 17, 2004 12:04am | #5

   Thanks for the info.  My wife and I have been stripping a lot of our 80 year old doors and woodwork where the varnish has alligatored and the wood basically looks black.  On one of the doors we used tung oil and it looks pretty good--at least the finish is smooth and you can see the grain of the wood.  I had assumed they originally used shellac and then varnished on top, so we must have stripped off enough to allow the oil to get to the wood.  We have been using "Kleen Kutter" varnish and lacquer remover with steel wool---are we missing something or is there an easier way?

2. 
   Ardito | Nov 16, 2004 07:45pm | #3

   A oil-based top coat (like a varnish or polyurethane) must be put over a "de-waxed" shellac.  If the can of Shellac doesn't say "de waxed" then it has wax in it.  More than likely your customer picked up a can of Zinser shellac at the store.  They sell both kinds, waxed and dewaxed, and you need to read the can carefully. 

   Why does he/she want to topcoat the shellac?  Shellac is a great finish and is SUPER easy to repair....just add another coat! 

   Cheers!
   Dark Magneto

3. 
   Shep | Nov 17, 2004 01:36am | #6

     As someone else already said, find out what kind of shellac was used.

     If it was a shellac thats not de-waxed ( most likely), use Zinsser's SealCoat over the top to seal in the wax. A coat or two should be sufficient.

     You can then use any topcoat you want, and it will stick.

1. 
   RichBeckman | Nov 17, 2004 03:26am | #7

   Well, I went to install the door. The first surprise is that it was a split jamb door. OK, no problem.But there is no indication that any of the finish is failing.I install the door side. So far, so good.I start to install the other side to discover that the wall is 5.5" thick and the door is designed for a 4.5" thick wall.The customer isn't home, so go off to do other stuff. This afternoon it is determined that I am to remove the casing from the remaining jamb, install the jamb, then jamb extensions (that I had to rip from a jamb the yard gave me), and then the casing.What a pain.The other interesting thing is that all of the baseboard and casing in the house is ranch, but this door came with colonial casing.If I had been in on this from the beginning, I would have pushed for only replacing the door, not the jambs and casing.I intended to look at the products he used (shellac and varnish), but I forgot. I'll be there again tomorrow I think, and I'll try to find out then.Also, my understanding of the shellac/varnish method was to match the color of the other woodwork. Didn't look like a very good match to me.Rich BeckmanTime for a nap.

1. 
   Shep | Nov 17, 2004 05:13am | #8

     Isn't it fun trying to make something work, when it would have taken so little extra to make it easy?

     I hope you didn't give a firm price, anyway.

1. 
   RichBeckman | Nov 17, 2004 06:13am | #9

   "Isn't it fun trying to make something work, when it would have taken so little extra to make it easy?"Seems like it wasn't that long ago that it wouldn't have mattered, it wasn't going to be easy. But I'm finally at the point where there is stuff I can do easily. And yeah, I spent the whole time on this door thinking "how stupid"."I hope you didn't give a firm price, anyway."One reason why this guy is my best customer is because he never asks for a price up front. I do the job and then charge him for what it took. He has never so much as blinked at an invoice.Of course, I have not always charged him as much as I should have. I can't get over "sticker shocking" myself!!!!I've got a ridiculous four hours + in that door (and a couple of bucks in shims). I'm planning to bill $175.00. Seems like a lot for the result.Rich BeckmanTime for a nap.

1. 
   RichBeckman | Nov 18, 2004 05:42am | #10

   Today I looked at the cans of stuff he's using.He has two cans of Zinsser(sp?) shellac. One can is amber and one is clear.Neither can mentions the presence or absence of wax.The amber can specifically mentions to not use polyurethane varnish. The clear can makes no mention of this.He mixed them. Maybe four parts clear to one part amber.Seems to be working.Thanks for the posts.Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.