Let’s say I want to relocate the washing machine in my basement and also install one of those Saniflo toilets. Can I “vent” through the wall (run the vent pipe up to where the sill plate is and have it vent out the side of the house like a dryer or energy-star furance)?
Or does it have to run up two floors and through my roof?
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Replies
You're talking about a plumbing vent, right?
You definitely can't terminate it near the ground in the same sort of place you would a power vent from an appliance. As far as I know... the UPC requires that vents go thru the roof, and not thru sidewalls, but one inspector here explained to me that the IRC will permit a sidewall vent termination under the eaves. There have always been requirements about distance to windows, doors, skylights, "gravity air entrance points", and other places that sewer gas could get into the house.
Your best bet is to talk to your building inspector, find out which code they use, and see what they permit and enforce.
A "sani-flow needs no vent, and neither does a washing machine!
all that is required for the sani-flow is a 3/4" discharge pipe to an existing drain.
All the washing machine needs is hot and cold supply pipes and a discharge pipe leading to an existing floor drain or drain stand.
Edited 3/26/2005 4:10 pm ET by Hube
Edited 3/26/2005 4:14 pm ET by Hube
Actually the Saniflo DOES need a vent. Go to their website and look at their "bulletin boards". Their manuals STATE no venting is needed, but they're printed in Europe, and according to Saniflo, you MUST have a vent if installing here in the U.S. They "apologized" for the confusion.
We don't need a vent for them in this area. (it is not a code)
There are hundreds of them installed in finished basements,etc. , and no vent required what-so-ever.
and they do work great!
You're saying that there's no code (here in the US) that requires a toilet to be vented? (I thought any plumbing fixture had to be vented into the main stack unless you had one of those studor vents). Does code here in the US allow you to vent directly to the "atmosphere" inside your house?To quote Saniflo:"By code you must vent the unit to your existing vent stack or directly to the atmosphere.""these external macerating units need two way air-flow, either to your existing vent stack or to the atmosphere. Saniflo""The Sani-Best must be vented. There is a white molded cap on the left side of the unit that must be cut off and a 1 1/2" pipe connected to either your existing vent stack or to the atmosphere. Saniflo"
i did'nt say "in the usa.
I said "in this area."
And normally when you discharge a sani-flow it will go into an already established vented stack.
So, there is no need to vent, is there?
When it pumps out what fills the space where the sewage was?
Before the ball check in the pump tank closes completely ,it gets all the air it needs for another pump cycle.
And assuming that the valve stays open that long.What happens to the column of "liquid" that is in the discharge line.I ain't buying it.
You don't have to buy anything, especially if I'm not selling.
The column of 'liquid' remains in the vertical section of the discharge pipe (check valve),until the unit is activated again.
Savvy?
"The column of 'liquid' remains in the vertical section of the discharge pipe (check valve),until the unit is activated again."Then how does the air go through the liquid column?
The air is already in there. The unit already has a built-in vent, that's why no other vent is required.
Then where exactly is "in this area"?although this is what confuses me: (4th paragraph down where it says you can vent outside).(This is from Saniflo's website):
As per plumbing code all p-traps need to be vented. Therefore, even though macerating systems are isolated from the main drain system (by means of a check valve), we need to vent the trap of the hand basin, shower, bathtub and possibly a bidet. The following external macerating systems need to be vented: Saniplus, Sanipro, Sanipack and Sanibest.Products with built-in motors need not to be vented as they are considered to be a forced main. These units are known as Sanicompact, Sanimarin and Sanistar.External macerating systems have a tapping on the lid, generally located on the right hand side and are 1 ½-inch diameter. To start one need to saw of the cap and connect the provided 1 ½-inch accordion connector to it. Then a street-elbow can be pushed into the other side of the accordion connector and one can finish off the vent installation in 1 ½-inch pipe.Please note that a vent pipe slopes upwards (¼-inch per foot) when running in the horizontal plane. If one cannot get at the house’s vent system, the vent pipe may run along the joists to the outside of the house. Do not use an air admittance valve (also known as cheater vents). These are one-way devices and block air movement in one direction.Macerating systems need a two-way air movement, out when the toilet is flushing, i.e. water running into the pump case and in when the macerating unit is pumping water out of the case.Note: When connecting to a vent system, please push the provided plastic cap into the breather opening located on the left hand side of the lid. Otherwise there exists the possibility for odor (not sewer gas but odor).
Did you notice the " GB " on the unit's installation sheet as per venting instructions?
Did ya think GB meant "Great Britain"...duh!
And if you bothered to read my post I stated in the US, NOT Europe. I also stated that Saniflo themselves stated that in Europe, venting is NOT required, but here in the US it is.I notice you glazed right over the US code that states that if a P-trap is installed, it must be vented.Also, I believe according to code, that there is a max distance from trap to vent. Since the Saniflo has the trap in it, a 3/4" pipe would pretty much have to have the vent very close (I think even a 1-1/2" trap needs to be within 1.5" of a vent stack?)Again, I am specifically addressing US code, not Europe or GB.Yes, it MAY work and it may work great without a vent(some have noted that the UPC that the US follows is antiquated and that the IPC is more updated), but I guess that here in the US, code requires I vent the unit (as does the manufacturer).But I think I'll take the other's advice and stick to what the code AND the manufacturer state-the toilet MUST be vented.
As a full time renovator and part time plumber, I think this is a great topic ,keep it up guys.I know the code but I like Hube's side.
In most cases for any 'sani plus' units, depending on the vertical heigth, you can run horizontally approx 30 ft.
there is a chart that takes into elbow, bends,etc in order to arrive at a total maximum discharge distance.
Most installations only require a 7' rise, a 90 elb., a 12' slightly downward horizontal run,a 45 bend,a tee-y, and into the ALREADY VENTED plumbing sytem's stack. Use 3/4" copper.
no problem.
Edited 3/29/2005 10:25 am ET by Hube
i dont know who said it but a floor drain cannot be used as a receptor for local plumbing.
by definition atmosphere exists outsid conditioned space.
when plumbing is open to conditioned space the conditioned space must be protected by a p trap
p traps must have a vent. wet venting is allowed for circuit of (6+-?) dfu through a pipe of 1/2 dfu or less. increase 1 pipe size.
ejection pits must be vented to atmosphere . (even miniature ones)
bite the bullet and snake a new vent to the attic and tie into theexisting stack. it aint that hard. maybe cost you a hundered bux, small price to pay for the health and welfare of your family.
I'm referring to the code (sorry, I don't have the actual section) that lists how far (critical distance) from the trap that you MUST tie into the vent line.For 1-1/2 pipe, I believe you HAVE to tie into the vent stack no more than 2-1/2 feet away.I believe the distance you stated for the Saniflo is the discharge pipe distance, not the distance from trap to vent.
What's the trap for?
The sani-flow unit already has a 'built-in checkvalve.
A bathroom sink (for a half-bath)
Unless you have a 100 % air tight house (which I doubt) it is under an atmospheric condition.
venting info
Most of the Saniflo products line require a vent to the open air. As per plumbing codes, to the main vent stack or all the way through the roof.
did you ever consider a in line vent such as a studer mini vent ?
I think on Saniflo's bulletin board, they stated that a studor vent is not allowed.
I agree,. They are also known as "cheater" vents.
If they used in some other various installations , imo,they are very dangerous .
Edited 3/27/2005 9:38 am ET by Hube
According to:
http://www.saniflo.com/installation.html
You must vent.
Go to:
http://www.theplumber.com/
they should have an answer for your area.
F
You're not doing yourself a favor by trying to understand or follow Hube's "advice". He is consistently one of the most uninformed posters on this board. Note how he also said that a washing machine does not need a vent? Tomorrow's Monday... call your inspector and ask... unless you're doing an unpermitted job, in which case... don't call.
When a washing machine's drain pipe is hooked up to an existing drainage system, the venting is already there. Why on earth would you need to install another vent? The same goes for the sani-flow unit, it's already vented . You don,t need to install another vent. Unless you,(for something better to do) of course, decide to install one to the exterior.
And btw, thanks for the compliment, yes ,and I've probably forgotten more the you will ever know.
And being 'well informed' take note that to-day is Monday, but most Goverment offices are closed (Easter Monday)....Check with the inspector to-morrow, ok?
"All the washing machine needs is hot and cold supply pipes and a discharge pipe leading to an existing floor drain or drain stand. "
That's what you wrote. The OP wrote nothing about an existing vent. If there's already a vent in the right place and you're simply tapping into it, then obviously you don't need to install a new one (DUH!), as long as it's within the required distance from the trap. But... a washing machine absolutely needs a vent. Here we rough the laundry drain into the wall using a 2" standpipe 24" high above the trap. Oatey makes about a million styles of washing machine box for that purpose. Surely you've roughed in many yourself.
Nothing personal, since I don't know you, but I'll say it again--I find your posts to be some of the most misinformed and/or misleading on the board. Maybe you've forgotten everything you ever knew??
Whenever a washer is installed into an existing plumbing system,(especially a basement) for proper drainage it only requires a drain pipe stand installation.(to code)
Hopefully, 99.9 % of homes that are lived in already have a properly plumbed, vented, drainage system already installed.
Why would you want to install another vent if it already has one.?
I don't know why I'm bothering to reply to this... but the OP said he is RELOCATING his washing machine. Sounds like a pretty good possibility of no existing piping, eh? Expecially since he's here asking venting questions. It goes without saying that you can tie into legal plumbing in legal ways and have a legal installation. Why you bother reciting that is unclear.
Read the posts. Reply with relevant facts. Stick that what you know. Etc. etc.
Even so, He still needs to tie into the existing system drain, which is already vented.
I don't want to stick my nose in too far here but...if you are going to say "eh" you have to either
be Canadian or drink real beer.
So would you like a Blue with your Ketchup chips?
Have a good day
Cliffy
Grew up in Michigan, made plenty of trips to Canada then, and now live where I can just about see Vancouver Island out the window... so does that count?
You guys have vented plumbing over there, right?
Yes and yes.
My wife is from Sault Ontario, so we make regular trips there. Of course we cross the border into Michigan occassionally.
If your a Michigan man you probably like Bob Seger?
Have a good day eh!
Cliffy
Funny you should mention Seger--we're from the same town. We had the same high school counselor, and he told Seger to give up the music thing and get a job.
In about 1976 we went down to Port Huron to play hockey in the big International Silver Stick Tourney. Been a Bob Seger fan ever since, in fact I had a Bob Seger song as the first dance at my wedding almost 10 years ago. He is right up there with Bruce in my books. As far as your high school counsellor, did you listen to him?
Have a good day eh!
Cliffy