Recommendations Please? (FL suggested that Splintergroupie may have some pertinent info on these, but the email address bounces – hey sg, whats with that!).
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Hi! Sorry i didn't see this earlier. My email is [email protected]. I don't know why it doesn't work, but you're the second person to say so. Thanks for letting me know so i can try to get it fixed.
I've installed the Ecotherm brand in a small rental apt and it works very well, no problems for the renter at all and it was a snap to install and no problems for the renter to operate. It doesn't need any electricity as it has no external thermostat (though they have a built-in one), but my tenants seldom take it off the "low" setting. Give some thought to location: this one is at the entrance to the bathroom, so it keeps that room toasty, and then the warm air drifts out the door to the living area, and finds its way eventually up to the cooler loft area. Here the info on that:
http://www.controlledenergy.com/ (click on bottom right logo on that page)
Phone (802) 496-4436 or (802) 642-3199
Fax (802) 496-6294
Their largest model is the MV-130, for which i pay about $500 locally. It hangs on the wall. Efficiency rating is ~ 71 percent. Warranty is one and four on the exchanger.
In my next house, i'm going to use Orbis heaters in all the rooms. Again they don't need electricity, an issue in my rural setting. I've decided to go with Orbis mostly because of styling, better accessiblity to the controls and they have a stronger warranty: one yr. and ten on the exchanger. Efficiency rating is 76 percent; they are slightly more money. They make a larger model than Ecotherm has, which should work fine for heating my main area, with the smallest model in each room. Their details are here:
http://www.orbisheat.com/products.htm
For a bit more in the way of thermostat programming, check out Rinnai and Monitor brands, free-standing whole-house models. The Rinnai runs on LP or NG, has a fan, humidifier, programmable thermostat, runs at 84 percent efficiency, but costs about 3X as much as the others. You need a dedicated 110V outlet. I've never installed one, but several friends have them and love 'em, until the electricity goes out and they lose all their settings. The Monitors run on kerosene and claim effciency percentages in the 90's. Also, kerosene is quite inexpensive compared to gas, but you have to be able to position a tank where it gravity feeds the stove, or pay a couple hundred for a lifter pump. These heaters made a name for themselves in AK, but there are some probs with Monitors lately, so check out this wonderfully fun and informative site:
http://www.alsheating.com/MonitorHeater.htm
You need to give consideration to location of the vents on the outside wall. The different heaters vary a bit in directions for how close openable windows, overhangs and such may be. I call my tenants in case of very heavy snow to remind them to keep the vents clear. I also prefer a little vent in the sidewall instead of a chimney through my living space and sprouting out the roof.
Splinter
Some of the directive vent units have millivolt controls. The strictly operate off the units thermocouple and can be used with external thermostats.
Thanks, Bill. I'll check into this with Orbiseseses...
SG, thanks for the info. The email address that failed was the Taunton.com address. Lack of separate thermostat should not be an issue and I doubt I need a really large unit. The kerosene unit sounds nice, but I can't see how I would be able to gravity feed the thing. the rooms are 8 ft up in the air. At least snow probably won't cover the vents. I'll check on those links, it seemed that all I came up with on a search for "gas heater" was unvented units.
I need to heat two separate rooms being completed in my barn. Each is about 4500 ft3 (14x27x12h) insulated with dp cellulose. Insulators just finished up today. Floor and ceiling were packed conventionally. They wet-sprayed in the cellulose into the open walls. Very slick system, all run out of a very large blower mounted in a large panel truck. 3" blower hose with an additional water line and 3 nozels. Cells and water mixes after the cells leaves the blower hose. After the stud bays are packed, the excess is shaved off with a motorized 3' long brush gizmo. All extra cells vaccumed up using another hose that feeds it back into the blower. Very cool.
wsf
Nice "barn"! Looks like you made some windowseats in the kneewalls. What will be the use for the rooms? Am i looking at one up and one down, or will there be a floor hung or ...? I hope you put in boxes for the [12'] ceiling fans? <G>
Damp-spray cellulose: i looked into this and i remember reading something about it shrinking away from the framing...did you hear anything about that or how it has been addressed? I saw a video on it once; the brush thing seemed a brilliant technique. Is there a reason you didn't DP the walls, too?
The studio i heat with the oversized Ecotherm is small, about 500' inc loft. It only has R-11 batts in the walls and R-19 in the ceiling, all exterior walls in MT climate on an uninsulated slab...darn poor insulation and it still stays toasty on "low". I wish you could buy here: there a fantastic, old-time kind of place that sells loads of the things at really great prices.
SG, It is a nice barn, and we are glad to finally make some better use out of it than junk storage. It is a stone barn, and while I haven't traced it's lineage, it must be about 200 yrs old. The most drastic change we are making is to remove the original. much deteriorated mortise and tenon louvered window frames from the stone walls and replace them with new m&t frames, but only louvered up above the rooms. Times change and I want to see out of the windows.
Those actually aren't window seats, but could be sat in anyway. The stone walls are 18" thick, and I have added up to 6" more to accomodate the stud frame walls and insulation. I bridged the gap between new windows casings and stud wall with tile backer board and packed the space between board and stone with polyurethane foam. Over this I will plaster.
I don't know if there is still an issue with shrinking of the cellulose away from framing. Thus far (two days) I see a couple of cracks between cells and stud, but nothing of any consequence. The installers were a but worried about the heighth and we put in blocks half way up the wall to help with support.
These two rooms will be woodshop and glass studio. There are no plans to split the heighth for an additional floor, Bear in mind that the top of the lower windows is a couple inches over 5' and the bottom of the upper windows in a couple inches under 8'. Yes, there are junction boxes for ceiling fans in each room.
This picture shows stone end and plank side that had the forebay below. The 3 louvered windows at the top would be how all the windows originally looked. The windows in the plank side are our addition. The white doors below are not original and won't survive this next week, they will be removed and that wall moved 4 ft back to where it originally was. This is probably more information than you really need, but right now I am really into it, ya know?
Oh yes, heaters. The kerosine heaters sound like a really great alternative, but I can't quite figure out how to feed the fuel to them by gravity since the tank would have to be 8 or 9 feet in the air. It is also intersting how Al (Al's Discount Heating) says that the Monitors are the greatest heaters going and then goes on (and on) about how much trouble they have been. Not exactly a resounding endorsement. I am hoping that I would not need much heat to keep these rooms warm, they are only 378 sq ft but are 12 ft high.
How is the flame enclosed in the Ecotherm you mention? I am pretty sure that the insurance company will have conniptions over an open flame heater in a woodshop.
Bill F
Simply gorgeous, Bill. Yours is a building to fall in love with, not just use, and it appears you are way head over heels! Thanks for the scale--i wasn't making sense of it very well bec of where the blocking was nailed by the insulation folks.
The Ecotherm heaters have enclosed combustion units; you never see the flame. There's a piezo ignitor that starts a pilot light behind the sheet metal shroud; pilot is controlled by the internal thermostat. You can spy to see if the pilot is lit by looking at it in a mirror, but combustion is completely enclosed and draws outside air for this. Page 9 of my install manual has a lovely parts page if i can get my computer to find my scanner sometime soon... ;^)
The Orbis site shows heaters whose flame you can view--i like that idea--but i've only seen the type with solid metal fronts. Still, the combustion units are enclosed, as well.
I installed the Ecotherm in 1994, BTW.