I have a customer thinking about saving bucks by going to a pair of these heaters in lieu of a central heat.
Neither company provides squat for info about how to vent the exhaust gasses.
The guy has a brochure with a pretty picture showing a long line with a few elbows and running inside a wall – all this in 3″
Where can I find some info about how to and what the max runs are?
I have serious questions about the integrity of the guy who is likely to sell and install this system.
I have already told customer that if he is trying something that will ruin things or kill him, I WALK. That came up when he mentioend casually that he cna get a ventless model to solve the problem of the long run of pipe required for the location that is possible in this house.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where …
Excellence is its own reward!
Replies
Call Rinnai and get it from the horses mouth! I just went through this trying to fit a tankless into my project, bosch, paloma, etc all have really short exhaust runs, basically they all want to be mounted on an external wall with a 12" long vent run. The one company I found that could vent a reasonable distance wanted stainless steel 3" vent which would have cost as much as the unit! I don't think you'll save anything until the cost comes down .. just my opinion ..
Thanks for the comment. I know the length of run effects the flow of the air in the pipe and with this being a "zero-clearance" thing reduced flow means additional heat build up.I The guy is pointing to this artists conception of what is possible, and I am telling him that artists don't know diddily.I suspect one reason nothing available online is different jurisdictions have different enforcement and inspection policies for varying local rules on this. Since there is no inspection here, I bear some responsibility to make sure it is dine right if it gets done at all.Longest extended vent install kit they have is about eight feet.I will call the company later today. I have an email in to both monitor and rinnai now. It will be telling how responsive they are to that.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
>>I have a customer thinking about saving bucks by going to a pair of these heaters in lieu of a central heat.
Most (all?) of the so-called "ventless" heaters specify in the installation instructions and, often, on the unit plate that they are intended only for use as supplemental heat, and should not be used as a primary heat source, AND should never be used to heat bedrooms.
I strongly recommend against being involved in any project which doesn't follow those requirements.
And I know several HVAC techs who will not have anything to do with any "ventless" installations.
May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
"We Live" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search
And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=
Like I said earlier, I would refuse anything to do with the job if he wanted the ventless.This unit is the vented but what they term ductless. Easy to confuse the terms, but ventless means you get to keep all that cruddy moisture and CO gas right in your house with you because there is no vent to send it out.Ductless means that it is not a central heating system with plenum and ducts and cold air return to distribute the heat.Oh hello, Bob, I see it is you - I probably didn't need to write all that detail, but now I did, maybe it helps somebody else here too.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
The details and education will always reach someone!
May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
"We Live" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search
And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=
My experience with Rinnai is they have detailed diagrams and instructions in the installation manual. Besides the length of the vent runs, there are code requirements for clearance from windows, sidewalks, and other intakes.
Rinnai uses a straight,3", zero-clearance, coaxial pipe for their standard inlet/exhaust and for the RHFE-263 heaters I have, the max length is 32". If you split the inlet and exhaust with separate tubes, the limit is 13 feet and two 90-deg bends.
Edited 10/11/2007 12:12 pm ET by TJK
Thanks for that. I just got off the phone with their engineeering people. They confirm same as you report - thirteen feet run - max 8' verticle and no more than two elbows.You and Bob both pointed out that they have this info in the install manual, but what I could not get over is that they do not make it available online as a pdf. I need to determine if it is even possible to use one or two of these in this house before I let the customer aim at that choice and actually purchase something that he cannot use.So that's why I came to the brain trust here.
Thanks again.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
One other comment on the Rinnais -- they are intended for use on a wall with no big obstructions in front of the heater that would block circulation. Otherwise they will just heat the ceiling area. Room air is supposed to circulate in a big loop with warm air from the heater blowing horizontally across the floor and cooler air returning from above to enter the heater inlets on the sides.I don't think they would work well in a big room filled with furniture or at the end of a long hallway because the circulation would never develop.
Yeah, I am working hard to dissuade him from using this. He is wanting to heat the whole house as a three season kind of thing. Figuring two units instead of a central system.But the house layout is really going to work against him and he will have hot rooms and cool rooms.I can pretty much tell that he has taken the bit in his teeth on this decision, so I may have to stand back and watch the fun. my part will be to keep him from killing himself, and make sure the installer doesn't take out a supporting structural member.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'm spec'ing a couple of tankless units for my place now.
The first guy I had come by for an estimate gave me the same distance limitations the others already gave as well as pointed out the gas line sizing would be inadequate for two units (each at 199,ooo BTU's). He only carried Rinnai's.
I'm investigating other manufacturers now that have smaller capacity and lower gas demands. Here's a link I found to help in my selection efforts:
http://www.tanklesswater.com/ed_mfgcomparisons.asp
On the Rinnai website, all their vent free heaters are labeled "supplemental heating solutions." You can download the owner/installation manuals here:
http://www.rinnai.us/Products/ductless_heaters/display_models.aspx
I went to that the other day before starting this thread.Have you actually tried it?"Server Error in '/' Application.
The resource cannot be found. "
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
So you weren't able to download any of the manuals? I was able to download a couple of them without any problems at my end. Curious.
Well, the one I selected was for the size unit that we would be using. I did not try any of the smaller ones...Maybe it is just that particular one that is unavailable. I will try again later - have something else downloading right now that is pushing the limits of my bandwidth.Another thought - are you a registered dealer? I see they have a part of the site only open to dealers. Mayeb they are reading a cookie on yours that isletting you download what I can't...
No - the display would say something more like, "You are denied access because blah blah blah"
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'm not a registered dealer, I just clicked on a couple at random and they opened up for me. If you're not successful at your end, post the specific model number and I'll see if it works at my end.
RHFE-1004FA
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
It figures - I can open up the manuals for every single other furnace except that one. They must have something mixed up on their website. Sorry.
Special!
That's what you are.Wanna try for specialist?
I still hear no reply from Monitor heaters.Thanks.
You got one? looks like papers scanned in.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Ya, I got a RHFE-1004FA.
Have the manual. You need any other data from it?
That heater salesman up your way in maine sells them and the Monitors
but doesn't have that much good to say anout the Monitors.
The advantages of the monitor here are two:
The larger Monitor is rated to 47,000BTU in th oil burner unit vs 35,000BTU for that largest gas Rinnai.
And propane here is much more expensive per BTU than is fuel oil
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Makes you wonder why it is so hard to find data about buying one.
[Rats -- bit by a spammer]
Well, I found an 84-page instruction manual for one Rinnai model in 30 seconds of Googling. http://www.rinnai.us/documentation/downloads/RHF559-1232X0101_434FTA_559FTA_Manual.pdf
"Monitor" would be a bit harder to find without a model number or a manufacturer's name.
Wall heaters are fairly common in the South, but generally not the ideal choice for colder climates unless the home is super-insulated and has an auxiliary air circulator.
Bit by the calendar too.
venting for ductless Rinnai and Monitor
Piffin on Thu, 10/11/2007 - 13:09
in
General Discussion
Bit by the calendar too.
That's what I meant. Didn't check the dates before posting.
Spammers seem to all have a weird way of talking/typing.
It sounds like you've got your technical data that you need so I"ll just add my two cents as a Rinnai user. We've got a condo up north (Vermont) and it has three Rinnai units in it for heat. Don't know the model numbers but two small ones in the bedrooms and a slightly larger one in the living/dining room. They work great, they're not ventless but are mounted on exterior walls with the small "coax" exhaust/intake tubing with a small ish maybe 4" fitting on the exterior walls. They heat the place up quickly, are fairly quiet and have needed zero attention except for cleaning the filters every six months or so since we"ve had the place (2003).
I do know that the condos had monitors in them originally and all were replaced with rinnais. That was before we owned up there. I know there is or was a guy up your way in Maine with a kind of wacky web site that sold rinnais and had good things to say about them. Hope this helps.
LOL
So, I get this notification that I have a lot of answers following my ccomment on ducting for Rinnai...
WTF? I don't remember....
Oh, yeah, that sitution! I left that customer in the dust and mud a ccouple years ago for multiple reasons. I DID FIND THE INFO i NEEDED TO SHOW HIM...AND EVERY HEATING GUY IN THE AREA AGREED WITH ME
...........
so he is still finishing his own house and doing it his own way
Sorry, I never even looked at the date it was originally posted. Why does this stuff happen?
The stuff happens because spammers Google for certain topics and make new posts to old threads.