I have been told by a friend in VT that there is no licensing of builders in Vermont; also, that there is no inspection unless someone is killed (the term “killed” may have been used loosely). Is there any truth to this?
I don’t live there — just asking.
Replies
Vermont
Office of the Vermont Secretary of State
Corporations/UCC Division
81 River Street Drawer 09
Montpelier, VT 05609
802-828-2386
http://www.sec.state.vt.us
Licensure is required for asbestos, plumbing, and electrical trades. Corporations must register with the Secretary of State
http://www.clsi.com/state_contractor_license_board.htm
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Interesting. Thanks. No inspections either, eh?
Dunno.I am in Maine. Communities here with less that 2500 population do not have to enforce any of the building ccodes. There is a statewide plumbing and electrical code. no structural inspections where I am though.
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Start by doing a search of the Vermont State web site looking for statewide building code, then search for the county or city that you'd think about working in. Lot's of couties in poorer areas (ie, small population, little industry) can't budget for a building inspector. That doesn't mean you don't have to follow code (if there is one adopted by the city/county/state), you just won't be inspected. You still have a legal responsibility to meet or exceed the code. I'd be surprised if there isn't a staatewide code.
http://www.vermont.gov/portal/search.php?q=building+code
Its not just the poorer areas that don't budget as I've never come across an inspector for residential building at all. I believe Burlington does inspections (could be wrong) and possibly the other "larger"cities. We are obligated to follow the codes though and there is the legal expectation that work is done accordingly. In practice this seems to work in most areas although I'm sure in remote sections there are some pretty serious violations although resale may not be an issue for those violators. For new construction, our energy efficiency utility (Efficiency Verrmont) serves as an inspection service to some degree. They offer great rebates to builders who reach certain efficiency standards and they do rate new homes based on their expected energy usage. There is the expectation that their final energy report, based on blower door tests, efficiency of heating systems, windows , lighting etc. be filed with the local municipality. Houses may be rated 5 star on down. Admittedly, just because a house is efficient it is not necessarily structurally sound. But the ones who build efficiently would typically build well in other regards.
As weird as it sounds to not have inspectors, it really doesn't work out much worse than other rural areas in the North Country that do have them. First, there is not the BI on the payroll. Second, life is not the same up here and lots of BI's in the Adirondacks and elsewhere do a lot of compromising based on finances. Lots of people build themselves with little money and take years to finish. The politics of enforcing codes strictly is tough and you won't make many friends on the local volunteer fire dept. IMHO, we do just as well or better than similar areas without the beaurocrats.
My comment about poorer is what I've experienced here in GA. I guess it can also be a decision by the county commissioners as well but I've not seen any of them with a decent size population (ie tax base) that haven't had a BI but that's limited to the SW side of ATL and south. What does become a headache is that different counties have adopted different revisions of the UBC. Here I'm under teh 2006 UBC, the state is (IIRC) 2000, and other adjoining in counties 2003(?). If the county hasn't made a decision fall back to the state. I only keep a 2006 book and haven't had an issue using it in the other counties.
I've seen a lot of places here that needed a BI but they were built that since they knew they wouldn't be checked for compliance. One place that always comes to mind was near a very popular lake/marina (I didn't think it was that nice but lots of people did). For the life of me, I couldn't decipher 1 particular structure, what it was originally, what was done to it, etc. ...until it burned and left the frame of a travel trailer. Now I could see what it has an addition to the side, 2nd floor above. Wish I had pictures of it.
cheers
Where do you find a 2006 UBC.I have not found any reference one. The latest that I can find is a 1997.http://www.iccsafe.org/e/prodcat.html?catid=C-B&pcats=ICCSafe,C&stateInfo=djkRcJicddaPmvOp6322|8
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Did I write UBC? Should've been IBC. Thanks for pointing that out.
Frost,
Good post. I think the insurance companies are slowly starting to take over the "slack" the state ignores. But I am not for total takeover by the state . I grew up in upstate NY , anybody could wire a house (licensed or not) but it had to be inspected. It cut out the licensed hack and the unlicensed hack ( not sure if it is still that way.) but today there are a lot of them in both categories. Not sure where you are in Vermont, but I have seen some horrible stuff. In the last 18 years I have done electrical for 7, plumbing for a while, carpentry for 10, and am amazed at some of the #### Iv'e come across. Just wish the state could balance thing's , but I am sure it will be all or nothing in the future... =bad or bad.
Dennis
There are a number of states that don't have any state wide building codes. At least not for residential.MO, IL, KS are several.Whatever codes there are what is adopted by local cities/counties..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
16d,
I am in northeast vt, if you have gun rack in your truck, with a 4' level on it your good to go ;) . You have to be licensed to do commercial electrical. But there are no inspections, permits etc for residential. Even residential plumbing, I have never seen an inspector. I heard (a few years ago there is one or two inspectors for the state, could be true.
Northeastvt
You forgot one requirement or two..Dog in the truck bed and a magnetic sign
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Piffin,
Dog protects the b&d saw, and returnable cans, magnetic sign holds the door of the rusted out s-10 together. ;) I can make a ladder rack from pipe clamp's and 2x4 lumber....
Dennis
Oh, rats. I was thinking of getting a magnetic sign for next summer and now you done shied me off.
Hey wait a minnit! If I leave the dog home, can I have the sign? (Damn dog likes to chew up my air hoses anyway....)
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
You ain't supposed to use the hose to tie him up with...;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I forgot; you couldn't make it to the fest so you didn't see the size of this beast. I am currently using 2-ton welded-link chain shackled to a highways department T-rail driven 6 feet into the ground.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
My sister lives in Williston, Vt, just outside Burlington. I believe williston is about 8500. I was going to do some work on the house, and called the town. There is no building inspector, plumbing inspector or electrical inspector and thus no inspections for anything. It is completely up to the builder to build quality and up to the home owner to know the screw ups. The only thing they require is an assessment after the work is finished to make sure they tax EVERYTHING the can.
The new houses I've seen have been built fairly well, no serious problems, except for decks. In driving around I've seen a few decks with some very long spans where they probably need two posts in the middle to meet code. Also, my sisters deck was a damn disgrace. The deck was 12x12 with no stairs, about 10 ft off the ground. The way it was framed, it required joist hangers on the ledger and also on the opposite rim joist. There were only hanger on the house side and they were put on with roofing nails. The footings were only 12" to 18" deep, nothing under the posts, they just sat on the footing and they were not attached to the footing in any way. The baluster were put on with various fasteners, some with brads, some with screws and some with finish nails. I tugged on a few of them and pulled them right off the deck with little effort.
The other thing that is a constant on every house I've seen, either visiting or just driving by and seeing inside their garages. Not one of the newer houses have any insulation or drywall in the garages. The garages are alway part of the house, usually with the master bedroom above it. The winter is so cold up there and when people park their cars in the garages they warm up the air and bring in lots of moisture from the roads after the snow storms. The warmer air condenses on the inside of the osb sheathing and you can see the dark spots of mold. I don't think people notice it much now but most of the newer houses were built in the last 10 years. This could very well be a large problem in time.
This is funny: My friends live very close to your sister I think. Currently it's a deck that they're having built (a three-season room actually), and you've pretty much described it, with some variations. The guy was going to roof it by following the pitch of the house roof off the back, and they had to point out to him that that would result in a back wall, with exit door, only 2' high. Right before the deck, they had the same guy connect the house to the garage. Maybe he knows something I don't, but I was mortified when he didn't use step flashing, and they chose not to press the issue. I've never been a big fan of government interference, but this sure seems to be a case of Caveat Emptor.
I needed to convince my sister to pay attention and not trust every one. She once told me, "we'll they are builders, they much know what they are doing". When I walked here through some of the screw ups and emailed a few articles and pictures of deck collapses, she started to listen and trust me rather than them. She's exceptionally bright and researches everything before she does anything, she and her husband just didn't have the knowledge about building and did not know what to look for or ask.I HATE government and thing 95% of the time they are stupid and unnecessary. I think inspections are the exception though. There are just too many people that either do not know what they are doing or don't care. And in many of those screw ups people can get killed. When something is completely preventable, it is terrible.
I'm in southern VT, no licensing req'd. Lots of fly-by-night competition as anybody who gets laid off becomes a 'contractor'. You're supposed to register with the state but many don't. Even less carry any form of insurance.
For residential work, you're supposed to pull a permit from the town, in most towns this only serves as a tickler for the tax office to visit and re-assess the property, nothing to do with an inspector since there aren't any.
Electrical and plumbing permits, if required, are pulled at the state level, there is one electrical and one plumbing inspector for the entire southern half of the state.
Lots of scary looking decks - apparently lag bolts, flashing and joist hangers (or any type of Simpson hardware) are 'optional' because I see very few decks with any of these features.
-Norm