Replies

1. 
   VaTom | Aug 22, 2004 09:14pm | #1

   You don't pay, you don't get.  The expensive ones are great, and something you'll see in production shops.  When I looked into a good one for the shop I was running I learned you couldn't set one on a wood floor.  Too much movement.  Hadda be concrete, which we didn't have.

   Detail how much time you're now spending cutting and that'll tell you how much you can/should spend on a saw.

   PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!

1. 
   PaineB | Aug 23, 2004 02:00am | #2

   I hear what you are saying about a shop grade tool but I am interested in james question from a job site point of view. Panel Pro has one for $700 and I wonder if it is worthwhile. Milwaulkee has a similar one for twice the money. Anybody use that one?

   I like your formula for figuring out whether you should buy a saw.

1. 
   maverick | Aug 23, 2004 03:29am | #3

   I have a panel saw made by Safety speed cut. I got it at an auction for $300. I hade to replace the motor, a milwaukee 8" power head. that cost me another $300. Still a deal. It beats wrestling full sheets over the table saw.

   I dont do any finish cutting with it. I leave 1/4" then finish cut on the table saw.

1. 
   VaTom | Aug 23, 2004 04:43am | #4

   I dont do any finish cutting with it. I leave 1/4" then finish cut on the table saw.

   Why do you bother with the panel saw?  2 setups and 2 passes to make one finished cut?  "Wrestling" ain't all that hard with a decent setup.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!

1. 
   maverick | Aug 23, 2004 08:29pm | #12

   >>Why do you bother with the panel saw?  2 setups and 2 passes to make one finished cut?

    Its easier to just cut up a panel then put it on the table saw for accuracy. I usually machine all 4 sides anyway. I dont bother trying to protect the edges because I know they're getting trimmed. I just drag it over to the machines. 

   Factory edges on veneer plywood dont run very consistent in thickness. When the sheets go through the sanding process the edges differ from the rest of the sheet. Almost like putting wood through a planer.

   Not only that but I dont take squareness for granted. Ive gotten plenty of sheet goods that were out of square way more than acceptable.

2. 
   james | Aug 23, 2004 07:55am | #6

   When you look at the cost of a good table saw with sliding table you are in the 3500 - 10000 range, I would be looking for a vert saw that could take on those tasks. I alredy have a beefy powermatic ts with an awsome fence but wrangeling a full sheet of say melemane onto it is just not going to happen and dose not happen. I end up using the rail saw and horses while that table saw just sits there. dont get me wrong i use the ts a lot but just not for sizing up sheetgoods.

   I have looked into some of the more inexpensive saws and thought that some of the lower end ones that have an option for exterders may be nice for sitework ( they seem small enough to be protable ). Its not like i will be cutting a whole kitchen at a clients house but i can think of a myrid of other things it would be good for during the course of a renovation.

   just my thoughts on that ,

   james

2. 
   davidmeiland | Aug 23, 2004 05:31am | #5

   I've used a Holz-Her vertical panel saw quite a bit. Great machine but costs about $10K used in good shape. Plenty of power, saw head travels vertically and horizontally, dust extraction is basically 100%, cuts clean and square, runs quiet, makes coffee, takes out the trash, etc.

   But if we're talking big bucks I'd skip the vertical and get a Martin sliding table saw with a 12 foot stroke. Or maybe an Altendorf. You can do way more with that type of saw.

   If you're actually on a budget, check out the huge variety of sliding table attachments for Delta and Powermatic-type saws. You can get something that will let you accurately crosscut sheet goods for a decent price.

3. 
   FNbenthayer | Aug 23, 2004 02:01pm | #7

   I've been eyeing the Festool saw for a while (I have the jigsaw-awesome), can you explain what "getting by" means? Shortcomings?

   Thanks

   Jim

    

    

    

    

   The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.
   - Fyodor Dostoyevski

1. 
   PaulBinCT | Aug 23, 2004 03:09pm | #8

   I've had some long threads here and other places about this so I won't rehash it all (Unless you want me to ;) ) but I was looking at panel saws and decided to get the SmartGuide set up, and haven't regretted it for a second.  Matter of fact I bought a second one, as well as the router guide (although I haven't had a chance to use it yet).

   http://www.eurekazone.com

   Paul

1. 
   james | Aug 23, 2004 05:04pm | #10

   paul

   the festool guide is similar to the one you provided a link to, i have one and like it i just think that a dedicated sheet sizer may be good.

   I guess i am looking to hear form folks who have one and what they think of it.

   james

2. 
   james | Aug 23, 2004 05:02pm | #9

   jim,

   the festool saw and guide are great for sitework and it is also very accurate ( well as accruate as you set up, it will cut a straight line anywhere you clamp it ).

   having said that you still need to wrestle the material up on horses, you should provide a backer for the cut and it can be slow ( having to set up and clamp with cuts on pre finished materials.

   just looking for a better way. ( read easier on the back )

   james

4. 
   migraine | Aug 23, 2004 05:55pm | #11

   Try posting or doing a search over on the Knots site.  there is a thread going on over there right now, along with some recent threads.

   Is this saw going to be used on site, or in a shop situation?

   Personally, stick to a table saw as long as you can and spend that money on another machine(as in a shaper, etc,)  when you get to a regular need for a verticle panel saw, then go for it.  One thing to remember is that not all panel saws are created equal.  the more accurate cuts will be on the higher priced saws.  A good melamine blade will get you past needing a scoring blade.  But, then again, that depends on your amount of use and.  Keeping your blades SHARP and going slow will net a pretty good cut without scoring.  If you plan on doing alot of melamine processing in the future, then scoring is probably on you list of needs. 

   I know many guys who produce alot of high quality cabinetry with just a regular cabinet saw and use factory edges for all their cutting, square or not square, and they get by just fine.  Going to frameless construction is a good example of needing a good panelsaw.  Plus, every shop should have two saws, if money and space permit it.  I'm back down to one saw with a sliding attachment, and I miss my horizontal slide saw

   If I get back into the cabinet business, I will probably go the route of a verticle panel saw. 

1. 
   james | Aug 24, 2004 04:58am | #13

   migraine.

   Two table saws? well if you have that kind of space, i am out in san francisco land and space is at a premium. I am set up in about a 1300sq ft place but the floor space is very cut up which can be nice and not. ( i have a general shop and equipment storage space w/ roll up door ( @ 1/2 of the shop ) and the rest is dedicated wood working space with a good sized ts, shaper, band saw, drill press and cabinet makers bench and a small finishing room.

   my bread and butter is renovation and restoration which often finds me in my shop duplicating things that have not been made for almost 100 years. I also do a lot of built in and custom cabinets. many of the smaller runs i do on site and a simi portable vert saw would be nice for that, as well as having something to size sheet goods at the shop. face frame cabinets are very forgiving and if i found that the cutting accuracy was not up to the job it would be a quick trip to the ts ( with a much smaller peice.)

   I think i will check out knots and see what they think of the vert saw and if they have any recomendations, i normally dont venture over there for i do not fit in well, i am kind of in between builder and furnature maker if that makes sence but i find myself more at home with folks who build and remodel than straight furnature makers. ( christ they have a cafe over there, always felt more at home in the pub.)

   james

1. 
   migraine | Aug 24, 2004 05:05am | #14

   your right in my league...