Replies

1. 
   Scott_Chadbourne | Apr 05, 2000 06:03am | #14

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   All three palnts I visited used #3 and #4 white pine to construct their windows. They used laser guided saws to cut out the imperfections and finger-jointed the stock into "clear lumber". The knots and waste were used to generate electicity for the plant - same as alot of lumber mills do. You can cover up alot of things in viynl or aluminum cladding. I was suprised to see that one of the manufactures only butt-jointed the stiles and rails in their casement sashes. Just the cladding kept the sash together. [I won't mention if it was viynl or aluminum cladding as not to divulge the company]. Also, notice sometime if the sashes in the double-hung windows you are installing are actually clad or just painted with polyester paint. All three companies at the time were using from the same glass company [cardinal] although they all seem to have their different methods when making inulated glass units and glzing them into the sash. Windows are like discussing politics, religion, or pickup trucks.

2. 
   Guest_ | Apr 05, 2000 07:45am | #15

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   Pete, I installed a Vetter Aluminum Clad Casement/Picture unit last year... I would normally go with Pella. Unit arrived correct (via one of my better local lumber yards) and went in easy.
   I'd use it interchangably with Pella, which I prefer over Anderson. While this doesn't address the Vinyl clad issue at all, I can make one other suggestion:
   Do the work with all the "help" there in August.
   He'll kiss the ground you walk on... after we've gone. (Like hitting yourself on the head with a hammer... feels good when you stop!)

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 05, 2000 02:06pm | #16

   *Scott, The windows I recieved had sashes and interior trim of clear pine, the exterior trim was finger jointed and primed, but the jambs were constructed of ply-wood!.

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 09, 2000 12:40pm | #17

   *I've been installing a ton of Vetter windows in the sub I am working now. Vetter an Crestline are indeed the same window. They come off the assempbly line and get Vetter or a Crestline sticker.My lumber dude told me that Crestline had developed a poor reputation for quality, and the Vetter sticker was their attepmpt at a "new" start. I tend to believe him. In the michingan area (Go Spartans!), The builders werre rejecting Cresline and using two local competitors MLC, and Wheathervane. Only MLC survived the battle. The Vetter's that I have installed are primed white, and usually double hungs. They are of average quality, but survuve our rough handling. I have seen many Wheathevane's crumple and have to be beat back togehter. I would use a free Vetter on my own, but probably wouldn't want to pay too much. The local distributor's service man is a bonafide idiot, but that doesn't mean that there aren't any qualified guys out there servicing Vetter. Speaking of jambs, I think Anderson uses a 1/2" jamb beneath their clad units. Pretty flimsy for a company thats brags quality.just my take, clones.out.Rome wannabe too,blue

3. 
   Guest_ | Apr 09, 2000 12:40pm | #18

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   Anyone ever heard of Vetter Windows? Alside just started carrying these this month and claim that they are a great product. Alside has never let me down before but I though checking here first would be a good idea. They also tell me that Vetter is the oldest window company in the USA. These particular windows are solid vinyl exterior and solid wood interior with , I believe, a 20 year warrantee on the mecahnicals, 10 yr on the wood anmd 5 on the glass...or something like that. They cost around 300 for a 100 ui dbl hung as opposed to 150 for a better quality vinyl window.

   So, let me know what you know, I will be getting more details on them soon.

   Pete

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 01, 2000 06:14pm | #1

   *Pete,..Vetter tried to break into the RI market about 15 years ago..but they couldn't compete and faded from the scene...course you know that Pella is about the only independent ..here you can only get them at a Pella store....so i don't bother with them..Andersen is my go to...hard to make a mistake with them..Hurd just got dropped by my favorite millwork place and replaced with kolbe & Kolbe...Marvin is trying to recapture market share they lost with some bad product a couple years ago..pozzi is one of those architecturally correct jobs that are almost impossible for teh average homeowner to maintain...Weathershield and Peachtree have both left me twisting in the wind...my fav's ...Andersen, Marvin, Kolbe&Kolbe (which i have never used, just based on the distributor)..the distributor and dealer are pretty important considerations in selling or buying windows...who needs it if everything you do is special order? or they don't have a good warranty service system?

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 01, 2000 06:26pm | #2

   *Mike,I really lost interest in Anderson since they entered the DIY market. Seems they really cheapened up on quality since then.I've done mostly vinyl replacements through other companies and don'r try to sell much of my own unless asked. The window market here is very competitive. You know....replacement windows 130.00 installed!!! They somehow turn out to be better than double that when all is said and done. I just can't find it in my heart to advertise that way.Anyhow, my new next door neighbor wants wood interior replacements, 4 of them, and I'm just trying to offer him something that will last and work right a good long time. I've thought about pella but I really like the Vetter window with it's solid vinyl exterior.Pete

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 01, 2000 11:10pm | #3

   *Pete.. i don't think Andersen has entered the DIY market, i think they are doing "pull " marketing,they want the consumer to ask their builder to get them Andersen...i haven't seen any cheapening or lessening of quality.. instead i see a better engineered, better designed product....don't know Vetter..like i said, it's the distribution chain thta makes or breaks it.. if they can't support you in the field, you 'll be left on your own...check out the marvin ultimate clad... there's an impressive window....but for quality, value, and service... i still like Andersen..

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 01, 2000 11:14pm | #4

   *It'd be even nore better and more cheaper still to use vellum windows....

2. 
   Guest_ | Apr 02, 2000 12:28am | #5

   *Pete, I just did an addition for a neighbor on a tight budget, mistake #1 & #2. She wanted wooden windows to match existing, Pella, Andersen, ect. budget calls for something a little more cost effective. We use a lot of aluminium and vinyl here in Florida. Not the best for insulation efficiency but harder on termites and rot. My local lumber yard carries Vetter, so I thought I'd give them a shot. My regular saleman doesn't handle them, I have to go through purchasing, mistake #3. I call the guy around the second week of December and order four windows. Not a big order, but all the glass that code will allow me for square footage added. I'm told three week delivery time. A month later I'm told Vetter is having problems. Two weeks later I have my regular saleman check the computer for window status. Windows weren't even ordered until January 3. Refrain for going ballistic, this could hold up my draw. End of January windows arrive sans grills. I am told grills can be reordered, so I rush off to install windows in order to start siding. Peel off exterior trim to replace with matching trim and Voila the windows are made of plywood. Did I mention our problem with termites and rot? Siding is done still no grills. We're cleaning up the now famous windows and notice no tempered glass sticker on bath windows. Back to purchasing next Monday. Mistake #4, didn't go ballistic in January. Would I order Vetter windows again? I don't think so! That would be mistake #5.

3. 
   Guest_ | Apr 02, 2000 12:37am | #6

   *Pete,

   All I can add to Jake's post is . . . Let some other contractor do your next door neighbors job. You'll like yourself more for not getting involved with doing work for your neighbors.

   View Image © 1999-2000"Whenever, therefore, people are deceived and form opinions wide of the truth, it is clear that the error has slid into their minds through the medium of certain resemblance's to that truth." Socrates

4. 
   Guest_ | Apr 02, 2000 03:57am | #7

   *My father always believed it was a mistake to do any business with a neighbor. He also always avoided becoming too good of a friend with a neighbor...didn't want anyone to ever feel obligated to invite someone to a party and to never feel slighted for not being invited.It's worked for me.Rich Beckman

5. 
   Guest_ | Apr 02, 2000 04:16am | #8

   *Pete,I've seen alot of vetter windows but only the older ones. The local sitributor of Vetter & marvins 20+ years ago sold both. Alot of houses have marvin in the front, vetter in the back. It created alot of problems when I was doing Marvin warranty & service. I saw alot of problems with them but to be fair, they were all wood & poorly maintained. I don't care who made the window, if it isn't maintained, it will fail. Take a look at Norco. I use them alot & they are not priced bad. They are aluminum clad & can custom size. I get them from R&D supply in Mount Vernon, about an hour or so south of you. There should be a distributor in Cleveburg. If you can't find one I shoud still have the rep's numbers. I think he lives in the area.

6. 
   Guest_ | Apr 02, 2000 04:22am | #9

   *Joe, Solution to mistake #1&#2 forthcomming, the addition is on their new house. I put them off for six months before I tackled this one. Solution to mistake #3 is having a talk with Mr. Purchasing Agent's boss, who happens to like me. I've tried to keep his poor performance limited to conversations in his office. I guess after almost a month I should be happy he remembers the size and quantity let alone something like grills or tempered glass. Solution to mistake #5 is to use a product with a better after the sell service. The purchasing agent a screw up, but two months for grills to pacify my clients is something else. And that's not to mention the ply-wood construction of their "all wood windows." Solution to mistake #4, to late to worry about it now.P.S. You know you got a name sake who was our high school football coach back in Pennsylvania. Mr. Fusco went on to coach Westminester College in New Wilmington, Pa.

7. 
   Guest_ | Apr 02, 2000 04:30am | #10

   *part of the problem is that we operate in such a competitive area that we have a lot of choices for distribution...our lumber yards have two or three alternates for Andersen... so we get excellent service, and van-load pricing....but the most imporatnat part is how this chain is set up...you can work with the best window mfr. in the world, but if the distributor drops the ball, you and your customer pay the price...also some of the companies (mfrs) are not set up for efficient order process... you get just the slightest variation in your product and you've got a problem....this has as much to do with customer satisfaction as window design....the two go hand-in-hand....some of them have many variations, casing, muntin layout, glazing specs, yada, yada, yada...you wait 12 weeks (with some) and the order is wrong....you're in deep..windows are special.... and this is not the vinyl replacement market...it costs a LOT of money to replace primary windows....get it right , your customers rely on your experience, you've got to rely on your millwork supply chain....

8. 
   Guest_ | Apr 03, 2000 04:53am | #11

   *Rich & Joe,Good advice on working for neighbors. Of course it is gonna agravate the living hell outta me to see someone else doing it for him. I'll wait and see. If he is really ionterested in the work by me then he will ask me again otherwise let fate take it's course.As for the quality aspect, I dont see anyone caliming these windows to be the best thing since sliced bread, so I'll stick with what i know if it comes to that. I syill don't care for the newer Anderson windows, maybe I will have to give them another look though just in case.Pete

9. 
   Scott_Chadbourne | Apr 03, 2000 05:47am | #12

   *Pete,I have been to Andersen, Crestline and Pella's windowplants when I was managing retail lumberyards. I am not absolutely positive but I think Vetter is made in Wassau, Wisc. in the same plant as Crestline windows. Although under different ownerships through the years, Crestline claimed to be the oldest window manufacturer in the U.S. so it may make sense for Vetter to make the same claim if they are basically the same windows with different labels. Pella is now selling their Proline series windows to national accounts / big box stores such as Lowes and Carters, etc. Mike Smith said the magic words, support out in the field after the sale.

10. 
    Guest_ | Apr 03, 2000 01:19pm | #13

    *Scott, I remember Mr. Purchasing Agent mentioning Wisconsin in one of his excuses.