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I want to thanks FredB, GACC Dallas, and Dan-O for the comments and encouragement. I also want to say that this message board is an incredibly valuable tool. I have been spending hours every night over the past week or so reading it and taking notes. For those who read my first post “Career Advice – Getting started in Residential Construction,” I am leaning more and more toward starting my own business rather than going to work for some one else. My question this time is regarding vinyl siding. I know many people don’t like vinyl and think it’s a cheep substitute to“real” siding materials, but the fact is, it is cheaper than many other types of siding, it make an old home look fresh, and where I live, just north of New York City, it is very popular. With that being said here are my question.
I did a few siding jobs over the past three years. I have a good handle on material cost and installation time. I think the quality of my work is better than a lot of what I see being done, particularly with regards to the aluminum work. I read a post here last night saying that Sears is charging about $650 per square for vinyl siding. If that is correct the typical bi-level in the areas I want to target contains 18 to 20 square and about 14 windows, 2 garage doors and 2 entry door. I through in the window and door count because I do a lot with the aluminum to trim them out nice, including building the frames out so that they are not recessed. If this is right, the typical price of a vinyl siding job is $11,700 to $13,000. I assume the $650 per square does not include replacement windows and from what I have seen the attention to detail around windows and door is relatively low. The last job I did was for a friend of the family so I did it for what I thought was a real good price. I charged $3000 for my time and materials cost about $3500. It took me a total of two week to do start to finish working by myself and working off of ladders, not scaffolding.
If I start my own business I want to shoot to bill $2,000 to $2,500 per week in the beginning. Assuming material on the “Typical” bi-level cost me $3500 and I can complete the job in 2 week, I can be happy charging $7,500 to $8,500, which works out to around $450 per square, that’s $200 less that the Sears rate! How does this compare to what others are charging? Am I selling myself way to short?
As long as I can charge at least $450 per square, the vinyl siding works seams like it will be a real money maker for me. I know that I can line up 3 to 5 jobs by the spring, which is when I plan to make my career change, thus I will have a few month worth of work at the onset. I do not want to make this my only line of work, but I think it could be a big part of my business. Any thoughts or comments on this topic would as always be greatly appreciated, particularly regarding what people are charging, what is and how long a typical job takes, and the level of detail that is done on the windows and doors.
Jamie
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Jamie, just FYI, back in Michigan, (over 15 years ago) I did jobs for Sears and they took my price - the same pirce I'd give directly to any other customers - and added 35% to it and that is the price they sold the job for. Keep tht in mind since I'm sure they haven't changed that "procedure" other than possibly increasing the percentage.
*the old "materials times three" trick will bring you in at $550/sq.......if that helps. Give Sears a call and see what's included in their $650. Most places that mass-advertise price are low-balling to get in the door. Maybe that's not the case here. Jeff
*Sears' biggest advantage is the fact that they FINANCE the job. If you do not finance the job, chances are that the customer will go for someone that does. Almost every vinyl siding contractor in my region finances, or offers financing packages for customers.My brother in law spent the last 5 years installing siding for Sears (sub contractor). He was paid 40% of the job, which means Sears made 60% of the total job. He couldn't survive on 40%, so he told them to take a hike. Now his helper is the local Sears siding installer (nothing more than a sub contractor, actually). Do a good job, charge a fair price, and people will call........James DuHamel
*Hi Jamie,You're asking the forum "Am I selling myself short?"Yes, and its natural to be low when starting out. You'll be able to charge more when your experience base grows. And when you involve others to help.Siding is an awful lot for a one man shop. Think about getting some help even if its part time to start. Once you've established a back log of work, the cash flow should enable this.Your numbers with regard to pricing seem reasonable.Some will say to charge what the market will bear. That's true. But if you're a standout mechanic and cultivate a word of mouth customer base, you can charge what you need. Then some will say, he's good and he knows it!I lived and worked outa Hackensack, N.J.Where do you hail from? Regards,Dan-O
*Dan-O,It’s a small world! I currently work in Hackensack, NJ, right across from the River Side Square Mall. I live in Southern Orange County however.As for your comment about siding being a lot for a one man shop, I can not agree more. All of the jobs that I have done so far I did alone. Once and a while someone would give me a hand, what a difference it made! As my business plan evolves from day to day I am thinking along the lines of focusing on two main services to start, siding and windows being one and decks being the second. My thought here is that I should be able to find someone to work with me doing the siding and train them so that their workmanship is acceptable to me. At that point perhaps I can start running more than one job at a time. The second product line, decks, seam to be in high demand in the spring and summer. Again, I hope to be able to hire someone and train them so that they can work on their own. I would then basically bounce back and fourth between projects and make sure thing are being done in an acceptable manner and work on what ever project needs my attention. A few things worry me however, looking at the want adds, there seams to be a lot of people looking for help. I have also talked to a few friends that have their own small one and two man companies and they saw good help is real tough to find. So the labor shortage may be the biggest problem I face on trying to do things as I described above. But at this point, this is all brain storming and I have the fall and winter to work all the details out.James commented on Sears offering financing and that being a big advantage. I read some posts yesterday about offering financing and most thought it was a not a good idea. I am going to talk to some lenders and see what I can work out in terms of offering some kind of financing. I’ll keep everyone posted on what I find out and if i end up offering it I’ll report on its success or failure down the road.Another advantage that I think a Sears, Home Depots, Lowe’s ect. offers is a guarantee on the workmanship. Is their insurance available so that I could also offer a guarantee. Let face it, in the minds of a consumer, if I mess up and they are not happy with my work, they assume that they have a much smaller chance of getting their money back from me. They know that if the complain enough to Sears, they will likely get a refund. Anyone have thought on this? If the insurance is available and not to expensive, I thing it would be a great selling tool.As always, thanks again and I look forward to the feedback,JamieJamie
*Jamie, I don't know exactly what insurance you're looking for but contact the local insurance agents and ask about contractors insurance. I am a one man start up struggling to get going in the reading, PA area, I went with state farm only because I have all my other insurance with them and they are a reputable outfit and recognized by customers. I pay $47/mo for a $1,000,000 per incident/$2,000,000 lifetime coverage. hope that helps.
*Jamie,You mentioned that you are going to aim for the Siding & deck market to start. What about the winter months? Maybe I'm just naive to think you can't do siding in the winter easily, after all I am just a Fiancial Analyst like you (currently). I just know I wouldn't want to be outside in the winter if possible.On the Sears thing, I know the Home Depot works much the same way. I know a couple floor installers that ahve done work for them. You sell your sole cheap in trade for a constant stream of work. Low margin high volume....the big box way.I wish you luck....you attack your business plan the same way I would. SJ
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I want to thanks FredB, GACC Dallas, and Dan-O for the comments and encouragement. I also want to say that this message board is an incredibly valuable tool. I have been spending hours every night over the past week or so reading it and taking notes. For those who read my first post “Career Advice - Getting started in Residential Construction,” I am leaning more and more toward starting my own business rather than going to work for some one else. My question this time is regarding vinyl siding. I know many people don’t like vinyl and think it’s a cheep substitute to“real” siding materials, but the fact is, it is cheaper than many other types of siding, it make an old home look fresh, and where I live, just north of New York City, it is very popular. With that being said here are my question.
I did a few siding jobs over the past three years. I have a good handle on material cost and installation time. I think the quality of my work is better than a lot of what I see being done, particularly with regards to the aluminum work. I read a post here last night saying that Sears is charging about $650 per square for vinyl siding. If that is correct the typical bi-level in the areas I want to target contains 18 to 20 square and about 14 windows, 2 garage doors and 2 entry door. I through in the window and door count because I do a lot with the aluminum to trim them out nice, including building the frames out so that they are not recessed. If this is right, the typical price of a vinyl siding job is $11,700 to $13,000. I assume the $650 per square does not include replacement windows and from what I have seen the attention to detail around windows and door is relatively low. The last job I did was for a friend of the family so I did it for what I thought was a real good price. I charged $3000 for my time and materials cost about $3500. It took me a total of two week to do start to finish working by myself and working off of ladders, not scaffolding.
If I start my own business I want to shoot to bill $2,000 to $2,500 per week in the beginning. Assuming material on the “Typical” bi-level cost me $3500 and I can complete the job in 2 week, I can be happy charging $7,500 to $8,500, which works out to around $450 per square, that’s $200 less that the Sears rate! How does this compare to what others are charging? Am I selling myself way to short?
As long as I can charge at least $450 per square, the vinyl siding works seams like it will be a real money maker for me. I know that I can line up 3 to 5 jobs by the spring, which is when I plan to make my career change, thus I will have a few month worth of work at the onset. I do not want to make this my only line of work, but I think it could be a big part of my business. Any thoughts or comments on this topic would as always be greatly appreciated, particularly regarding what people are charging, what is and how long a typical job takes, and the level of detail that is done on the windows and doors.
Jamie